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View Full Version : Overclocking CPU, memory, mem timings - results


deeppow
08-03-07, 09:24 PM
This is a contraction of various parts of a thread posted here (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=521047). Thought I would condense and summarize in hopes of helping a few overclockers. Should the admins not find this acceptable, please delete.


Have run some tests to see what are the dominate overclocking parameters for the Core 2 Duo, E6600 in my case. Results were obtained by using rig noted in my sig. Performance was benchmarked using the Pi 1M digits test unless otherwise stated.

You do get better performance with higher CPU speed, see Figure 1, no surprise here of course. Memory speed and timings are held constant in this study. You can also observe that there is minimal effect of the FSB speed when the CPU and memory speeds are fixed, i.e. running the northbridge faster alone doesn't provide any advantage.

Figure 2 shows the gains of higher memory speed at a three different CPU speeds that were 3.5Ghz, 3.0Ghz and 2.4Ghz. Memory timings are held constant in these studies. As you can see, higher memory speed does improve performance. But the difference between memory at 800 and 1000 is minimal, on the order of 1.5% or less (see details below).

Next, here (http://www.deep-powder.net/OC_Guide/Data/Pi_MEMtimings.htm) is info on the effects of memory timings. Interesting detective story associated with the initial part of investigation. The table (http://www.deep-powder.net/OC_Guide/Data/Pi_MEMtimings.htm) shows results using my Mushkin that is rated at 4-5-4-11. Two sets of tests associated with memory timings are shown. One test ran Pi using 1M digits with 5 samples and the other 2M digits with 10 samples. The 1M case is often used as a reference test by a number of folks including myself.

To make a long story short, the results using 1M digits and 5 samples do not produce results that we would expect. For example 5-5-5-12 is faster than 4-4-4-11, very questionable result. However if you look at the standard deviations of the tests (called sigma in table), you see that the variability (as represented by sigma) indicates that while the results aren't what we expect it is a reasonable result. (If you have a collection of data from a Normal Distribution then approximately 66% of the data should fall within one standard deviation of the mean.) Thus 66% of the average values would lie between 14.7689 (average - sigma) and 14.8835 (average + sigma) if I had an infinite number of tests. My result for 5-5-5-12 lies within that spread so I can't say it is wrong. Thus my metric as applied to this question doesn't appear to be good enough! You must always make sure you're measurement reflects what you think it does.

From this point, I conclude I required a better metric to measure the effect of memory timings. For this reason, I conducted the Pi test set with 2M digits and 10 samples. Took half a day testing to run those cases in combo with a few "honey-do"s too. Anyway now looking at those results in the table, they are more typical of what we expect, i.e. the ordering of what is important is typical for the various settings.

So what is the maximum improvement that I might reasonably expect with better memory timings? 66% of my maximum performance improvement will be less than 1% for a single setting change to all timings, i.e. going from 5-5-5-12 to 4-4-4-11. I get this number from this (37.4248+.0.1108)/(37.2565-.08831)=1.0099 or 1%.

How does this relate to better memory? If I had DDR2 rated at 800 and went to memory rated at 1000 using data I've not given you but did show in the figure, (15.019+0.017)/(14.854-0.034)=1.0146 or 1.5%. Thus better (faster) memory is better, in this case 800 at 4-4-4-11 will be better than 1000 at 5-5-5-12. Of course taking bigger steps in memory speed or wider spreads in timings would have to be tested so be careful with extrapolation.

From these 3 sets of studies, I conclude
1) CPU speed is most important and greatest payback
2) higher memory speed is next
3) tighter memory timings (speed and timings usually compete with one another, as speed gets faster the timings get slower)
4) FSB alone has minimal value.

Anyway, those are the basics with the regions I've tested.

EXTRA:
A little more comparative info is shown in Figures 3 and 4. Figure 3 shows performance as a function of CPU speed for two cases, memory run at ~1066 and ~600 which are the extreme memory speeds I’ve tested. As you can see observe at 3Ghz, the performance difference due memory speed is ~3.7% which would require and additional overclock of 100Mhz for the 600 memory to be equivalent. Depending of the cost difference between 600 and 1066, you would have to decide if the performance payback value is worth the extra cost for you.

Figure 4 refines (shows in greater detail) part of a previous plot. From this plot you can observe that if you bought 800 memory, you would get 2/3 of the potential gain between 600 and 1066. Thus 800 might be a good option for you if the price difference for the 1000 speed is too high for you.

Looking at the table noted above, you can see that buying memory with 4-4-4-N timings would give you a gain of ~0.5% in performance over memory with 5-5-5-N timings. Again, you need to decide value.

bing
10-23-07, 06:12 AM
Bump for a nice detail post ! :thup:

Deeppow, wish you can re-edit the pics sequences vertically rather than horizontally, it will make this excellent writing easier to read. ;)

deeppow
10-23-07, 07:11 AM
Bump for a nice detail post ! :thup:

Deeppow, wish you can re-edit the pics sequences vertically rather than horizontally, it will make this excellent writing easier to read. ;)

Sorry Bing, I don't understand. The images on my displayed page do stack vertically. ??

Brolloks
10-23-07, 09:47 AM
Great study:thup:

I'm a data kinda guy and data based studies like these are in my book much more valueble than somebodies 3DMark scores or Prime results alone, this draws conclutions which is applicable across the spectrum of CPU's and memory

This says it all for me....

From these 3 sets of studies, I conclude
1) CPU speed is most important and greatest payback
2) higher memory speed is next
3) tighter memory timings (speed and timings usually compete with one another, as speed gets faster the timings get slower)
4) FSB alone has minimal value.

:beer:

aja
10-23-07, 10:45 AM
Bump for a nice detail post ! :thup:

Deeppow, wish you can re-edit the pics sequences vertically rather than horizontally, it will make this excellent writing easier to read. ;)

It depends on what resolution your screen is at.

Sorry Bing, I don't understand. The images on my displayed page do stack vertically. ??

the OP attached the images using the forum software, so they would be all over the show...

@OP you will need to use a host like photobucket or whatever you want, then insert the images. That way they will tile vertically...

HAHA glad to know that FSB means nothing....

BROLLOKS! :beer: hello...

aja
10-23-07, 10:48 AM
Sorry Bing, I don't understand. The images on my displayed page do stack vertically. ??

I am tempted to say sticky but not quite.

maybe add some detail about the theory behind everything, like memory bandwidth and bus speed etc.

and change the title to something about bottlenecking!

but if you were just trying to post some findings, well done! you went way overboard on the effort scale...

bing
10-23-07, 10:58 AM
Sorry Bing, I don't understand. The images on my displayed page do stack vertically. ??

Its my side, those pics are fine ! Sorry ! :beer:

Brolloks
10-23-07, 11:13 AM
I am tempted to say sticky but not quite.

maybe add some detail about the theory behind everything, like memory bandwidth and bus speed etc.

and change the title to something about bottlenecking!

but if you were just trying to post some findings, well done! you went way overboard on the effort scale...

I would say do not make it to complicated otherwise the core message gets lost in the sticky, that is what I found with some stickies, too much stuff that the original ideas get lost in...OMO that is

Howzit Aja...:beer:

deeppow
10-24-07, 05:46 AM
...

maybe add some detail about the theory behind everything, like memory bandwidth and bus speed etc.

.....

Two points that won't be readily apparent to you:
1) this fits into a larger OCing guide (if I ever get my act together and integrate it more fully), see link (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=212551). That has a significant amount of "hardware basics" and info that you suggest and
2) as Brolloks appropriately noted, I wanted to apply KISS. Posts get too long and my belief is that folks aren't as interested cause it requires work. (Actually even if this post is reasonably short it still takes a lot of work if you really want to grok its fullness.)

Anyway, beauty is in the eye of the viewer. :beer:

aja
10-24-07, 06:48 AM
Two points that won't be readily apparent to you:
1) this fits into a larger OCing guide (if I ever get my act together and integrate it more fully), see link (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=212551). That has a significant amount of "hardware basics" and info that you suggest and
2) as Brolloks appropriately noted, I wanted to apply KISS. Posts get too long and my belief is that folks aren't as interested cause it requires work. (Actually even if this post is reasonably short it still takes a lot of work if you really want to grok its fullness.)

Anyway, beauty is in the eye of the viewer. :beer:

Point well taken!

Thanks for the reply. I see what you mean now!

Cool results nonetheless