PC POWER and COOLING Silencer 750 Quad (Copper) S75Q Power Supply

[soccrstar]

Hello,

I'm in need of a power supply

I was looking at the PC POWER and COOLING Silencer 750 Quad (Copper) S75Q Power Supply and was thinking about getting it. Also are rosewill good power supplies or should I pay the extra for this one? is 750W pSU too much?

I have currently have a pentium D 3.2ghz upgrading to a Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Quad-Core Processor 2.4GHz., currently 1x 1024gb DDR800 upgrading to 2x1024 DDR800 sticks, 10k 74gb raptor, I have 2x 320gb 7200rpm drives coming in, dvd burner, dvd-rom, floppy, radeon x600 pro.

is 750w good with room to spare?

thanks in advance

[JamesXP]

15k Raptor?

And 750 is way overkill that x600 hardly sucks any power does it :P

[SeasonalEclipse]

Dont go with any roswell PSUs, their a off brand generic company and I wouldnt trust them too much.

[soccrstar]

15k Raptor?

And 750 is way overkill that x600 hardly sucks any power does it :P


lol yea the x600 sucks up 500W ;-) :santa: :santa: lol. typo on the raptor actually 10k I guess I got scsci drives in my head atm hehe.

I run linux so no need for anything more than x600. plus I have a ps3 to play games.

It should give me room to grow plus I plan on using Swiftech MCW6500-775T which is a 226w pelted waterblock and want to run it off the PSU. 750w should be enough to handle it along with my current and future workload?

[dribblesnort]

Hello,

I'm in need of a power supply

I was looking at the PC POWER and COOLING Silencer 750 Quad (Copper) S75Q Power Supply and was thinking about getting it. Also are rosewill good power supplies or should I pay the extra for this one? is 750W pSU too much?

I have currently have a pentium D 3.2ghz upgrading to a Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Quad-Core Processor 2.4GHz., currently 1x 1024gb DDR800 upgrading to 2x1024 DDR800 sticks, 10k 74gb raptor, I have 2x 320gb 7200rpm drives coming in, dvd burner, dvd-rom, floppy, radeon x600 pro.

is 750w good with room to spare?

thanks in advance

I have 2 of these units.

One is Black

the other is Copper

I am in the process of RMA'ing both units because of unsatisfactory performance

The copper one died in 6 minutes

The black one squeals like a pig when I overclock. as in I can hear it over my AC unit outside

In my experience with PCP&C, they suck. But remember, that is solely based on my experience with these two units. Could have been just a case of bad luck or a bad batch, so keep that in mind when making your decision.

[Vento1]

I am using the 750 quad pcp&p power supply i have had no problems with it. At the moment i am running an Asus P5K-E motherboard with a x6800 cpu 2x 74gig raptors in matrix raid and a 2900xt graphics card.

[Gautam]

Hello,

I'm in need of a power supply

I was looking at the PC POWER and COOLING Silencer 750 Quad (Copper) S75Q Power Supply and was thinking about getting it. Also are rosewill good power supplies or should I pay the extra for this one? is 750W pSU too much?

I have currently have a pentium D 3.2ghz upgrading to a Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Quad-Core Processor 2.4GHz., currently 1x 1024gb DDR800 upgrading to 2x1024 DDR800 sticks, 10k 74gb raptor, I have 2x 320gb 7200rpm drives coming in, dvd burner, dvd-rom, floppy, radeon x600 pro.

is 750w good with room to spare?

thanks in advance
You should be looking at something in the 500W range for a system like that. Corsair 520HX will do.

[Super Nade]

Dont go with any roswell PSUs, their a off brand generic company and I wouldnt trust them too much.

Not all Rosewill units are rubbish. Some seem to hold up rather nicely (ATNG built ones). ;)

[inkfx]

If you really want a 750 unit take a look at the Silverstone DA750. It's pretty much the same unit as the PC Power & Cooling except has modular cables. I picked one up recently and don't see how I ever got along without the modular. Keep in mind the Corsair HX520 is also modular and has a nice strong single +12v rail. It's also a good deal cheaper than the buff 750 units.

[Super Nade]

The OP750 does not regulate as well as its 650W little brother. The Silencer is by no means a bad unit, but just so you know, there are several other choices available to you.

[pak]

I have had mine for a few months now with no problems. I bought it as a refurb'd unit direct from PCP&P. If you don't mind refurbished, I paid ~$160 tax and shipped to my door. If you do plan on buying a refurbish from them, call them and ask what they have. They do no update their list daily.

--pak

[shirker]

You should be looking at something in the 500W range for a system like that. Corsair 520HX will do.the corsair 520w probably can't handle the "226w pelted waterblock" he wants to run off his PSU though. but damn that's a ridiculous amount of power consumption for a peltier waterblock, and I wonder how much more cooling "power" it has over a standard waterblock

[Super Nade]

Just because it says 226W, does not mean it will consume 226W. That depends on the temperature Delta he is looking at. ;)

[shirker]

Just because it says 226W, does not mean it will consume 226W. That depends on the temperature Delta he is looking at. ;)that's also why i put quotation marks around "226w pelted waterblock" :p
I did some research on peltier air coolers at one point and found out that they power consumption will vary depending on change in temperature and how hot the cpu gets. even if he never gets the peltier to the rated 226w peak, it still has the potential to eat a weaker PSU for breakfast

[Maverick0984]

I have 2 of these units.

One is Black

the other is Copper

I am in the process of RMA'ing both units because of unsatisfactory performance

The copper one died in 6 minutes

The black one squeals like a pig when I overclock. as in I can hear it over my AC unit outside

In my experience with PCP&C, they suck. But remember, that is solely based on my experience with these two units. Could have been just a case of bad luck or a bad batch, so keep that in mind when making your decision.

That sucks, but I think you just got unlucky or something else caused the problems. Too much of a coincidence to have lost 2 of these.

PCP&C are the best in the business in terms of PSU's. They are expensive though, but you pay for their reliability/efficiency/reputation.

I have the black 750W silencer and it is excellent.

Just an FYI to everyone out there, modular cables are *not* a good idea when it comes to handling heavy load and electricity. That is why some of the better units do not have this option. I am a Computer Engineer by training and deal with electricity on a daily basis. All modular cables do is create a weak point in the circuit :-/. I wouldn't touch a PSU with this *feature* with a 10ft pole.

[Section8]

I have 2 of these units.

One is Black

the other is Copper

I am in the process of RMA'ing both units because of unsatisfactory performance

The copper one died in 6 minutes

The black one squeals like a pig when I overclock. as in I can hear it over my AC unit outside

In my experience with PCP&C, they suck. But remember, that is solely based on my experience with these two units. Could have been just a case of bad luck or a bad batch, so keep that in mind when making your decision.

That sucks, but I think you just got unlucky or something else caused the problems. Too much of a coincidence to have lost 2 of these.

PCP&C are the best in the business in terms of PSU's. They are expensive though, but you pay for their reliability/efficiency/reputation.

I have the black 750W silencer and it is excellent.

Just an FYI to everyone out there, modular cables are *not* a good idea when it comes to handling heavy load and electricity. That is why some of the better units do not have this option. I am a Computer Engineer by training and deal with electricity on a daily basis. All modular cables do is create a weak point in the circuit :-/. I wouldn't touch a PSU with this *feature* with a 10ft pole.

^^^^

What he said. I think something else is going on with your system if you had 2 of them die on you. If you really got 2 bad PC P&C you are the unluckiest man alive. I have personally owned 5 PC P&C units and have bought countless others for family and have never had one die yet. My oldest is about 6 years old and still going strong.

[Super Nade]

Just an FYI to everyone out there, modular cables are *not* a good idea when it comes to handling heavy load and electricity. That is why some of the better units do not have this option. I am a Computer Engineer by training and deal with electricity on a daily basis. All modular cables do is create a weak point in the circuit :-/. I wouldn't touch a PSU with this *feature* with a 10ft pole.

That is completely baseless, unfounded and a marketing gimmick employed by certain companies. I would love to see some evidence to back these claims.

[Maverick0984]

That is completely baseless, unfounded and a marketing gimmick employed by certain companies. I would love to see some evidence to back these claims.

Um, it's not baseless and not a marketing gimmick. It is my own knowledge of the field making my own personal judgment. It is my job to know this kind of stuff. I'm sorry, you just aren't entirely correct with this one :-/. You can go tell the 3rd ranked engineering college in the US and top 5 or 6 in the world that they are wrong if you'd like, heh. I don't need to "find some article" to tell me this, I just know it.

It doesn't make as big of a difference with like low-end 300-400W models, but once you get up to 750W-1kW, it is just not a good idea. Sure you will "probably" be okay, but thats the same probably that goes with everything computer related acting like it should. Fact is, straight through cabling in any form is always better than "modular". Whether it be electricity/networking/piping/etc. At every connection made of anything of this type there is signal degradation. There really is no arguing this, it is a fundamental law.

I'm not saying modular won't be "good enough" for you. I'm just saying you aren't getting every Watt your rating says you are getting. As well as the Wattage not being nearly as clean. Which is incredibly important for computer components. Companies make these modular units to offer ease of use for their customers at the expense of quality. Some don't see the quality loss as a large enough deal to sacrifice their easier cable management. Frankly, nothing is worth me risking my $2500+ investment.

I always silently laugh when people complain that a high-end PSU isn't modular.

@SuperNade, I am aware you are a moderator and mean no disrespect, just trying to educate.

[JamesXP]

Bah.


When modular PSU's came out everyone was like OMG Resistance don't use it will kill your hardware, Bah theres lots of people with hight wattage PSUs who use modular cables there computer still works :D

[Maverick0984]

Bah.


When modular PSU's came out everyone was like OMG Resistance don't use it will kill your hardware, Bah theres lots of people with hight wattage PSUs who use modular cables there computer still works :D

lol, I know, and again, I'm not saying it won't be good enough for you. I'm just saying I want the cleanest power possible ;). It is the anal Computer Engineer in me :D and hours spent studying, ingraining resistor this and capacitor that.

I mean really, a slow bleed of a sub-quality modular design, maybe even operating below spec, not even enough to be noticeable, might take out a motherboard or harddrive after a year or 2, and everyone will jump to blaming the motherboard or harddrive when really it is the PSU acting just okay enough to not be noticeable but bad enough to cause problems. :-/

[RangerXLT8]

Silencer 750 is overkill for a X600 lol. It's a quad SLI unit!

Get a Antec Neo HE 550.

[Maverick0984]

Silencer 750 is overkill for a X600 lol. It's a quad SLI unit!

Get a Antec Neo HE 550.

There's a Silencer 470W and Silencer 610W ;).

Do we see a trend for my choice of PSU's ?

[Alexhk]

There's a Silencer 470W and Silencer 610W ;).

Do we see a trend for my choice of PSU's ?

That they're made by Seasonic :shrug:

I know what you think you're circuit theory is telling you but in practice modular is working just fine, take the Thermaltake 1200W unit (http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=107) that jG reviewed. Doesn't exactly look like a PSU that "maybe even operating below spec, not even enough to be noticeable" now does it.

[Nebulous]

I got the 610w. Best dam psu I ever owned! :D

[Maverick0984]

That they're made by Seasonic :shrug:

I know what you think you're circuit theory is telling you but in practice modular is working just fine, take the Thermaltake 1200W unit (http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=107) that jG reviewed. Doesn't exactly look like a PSU that "maybe even operating below spec, not even enough to be noticeable" now does it.

PC Power & Cooling.

Honestly, it is going to take alot more than some guy that can use an oscilloscope to make me buy one of those.

What I mentioned was problems occurring over time. And regardless of what some one time test of a brand new unit tells me, it is just simple physics.

It is generally a smart idea to make intelligent decisions on your own, not because someone tells you it is what you should do, ie. a reviewer. They can do their best, but when it comes down to it, you should make a decision based on your own knowledge and what you think you like better. It is easy to understand why modular PSU's have taken on such a craze, and I really don't mind.

For the user who knows a thing or two about electricity, the standard PSU will always exist.

You do whatever you want to do, but I'll buy the better PSU and sleep easy knowing my baby is safe.

EDIT: looking at that 1200W model, it is rated at "Up to 87%" when none of the benchmarks come close. PCP&C rates their models by the lowest you'll ever see. That is Watts and Efficiency. There is no "Up to", it is a "Guarenteed". PCP&C's 750W is actually equivalent to a 825W from the other manufacturers. Now i don't want to turn this into a which company is best thread, but I think it should be noted that PCP&C doesn't offer any modular designs to my knowledge. I think OCZ bought them, and will be feeding their tech into new maybe modular PSU's. Hopefully that doesn't happen, I'll be dissapointed :(.

Although, OCZ said they will be keeping the design but it will basically be their "Premium" line.

[Oklahoma Wolf]

There's nothing wrong with a modular design... that myth has been disproven more than once.

[Peepaw]

I got the 610w. Best dam psu I ever owned! :D


Same here.


I have an opinion on the modular thing but I think I will stay out of that one.:eek:

[dribblesnort]

^^^^

What he said. I think something else is going on with your system if you had 2 of them die on you. If you really got 2 bad PC P&C you are the unluckiest man alive. I have personally owned 5 PC P&C units and have bought countless others for family and have never had one die yet. My oldest is about 6 years old and still going strong.


We're talking about 2 seperate power supplies used in two seperate computers on two seperate UPS units connected to two seperate outlets in seperate rooms. The only thing common is that they are both located in the SAME HOUSE

Now what was that again about about something being wrong with my "system"?

[TTP]

I've had nothing but PCP&C psu in all my setups for 7+ yrs. I still have the original one on my P2 system still running well. I've built over 15 systems for personal use since then and I've never experienced a bad PCP&C.

But then things happen. At least PCP&C has a great warranty and service.

[Audioaficionado]

I have the PCP&C Silencer 610 and Silverstone Zeus ST56ZF 560W.

Both are solid, highly recommended, single 12v rail, non modular units.

PCP&C 610 $150 at the egg.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703005&Tpk=610%2bsilencer

SILVERSTONE ST56ZF $138 at the egg.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817163111

[Alexhk]

I think captain subtext is going to help me with this one...

PC Power & Cooling.
Read: I'm ignorant of the fact that PC P&C silencers are manufactured by Seasonic. (Just an FYI, the turbo-cools are manufactured by Win-tact and if your going to be putting PC P&C on a pedestal and claim they are the best you should really be using the server grade turbo-cools as your proof)


Honestly, it is going to take alot more than some guy that can use an oscilloscope to make me buy one of those.
Read: I've going to ignore hard numbers because they disagree with my pre-existing notions/fanboish beliefs.
I wasn't telling anyone to rush out and buy the TT 1.2kW unit( althought CWT did a very good job with that PSU), just using it to disprove your, modular doesn't work at 1kW theory.

EDIT: looking at that 1200W model, it is rated at "Up to 87%" when none of the benchmarks come close. PCP&C rates their models by the lowest you'll ever see. That is Watts and Efficiency. There is no "Up to", it is a "Guarenteed".
Yeah their up to 87% rating is probably coming from a 230v input... but you really make it sound like you aren't aware that you'll be looking at an efficiency curve when your dealing with SMPS. I agree though, than an 80+ rating is preferable to an "up to" rating.

PCP&C's 750W is actually equivalent to a 825W from the other manufacturers.
Errr, what? You silly

Now i don't want to turn this into a which company is best thread,
I think u did that a few posts up where you said "PCP&C are the best in the business in terms of PSU's."

I think server grade manufactures like Zippy, Etatis, and Andyson might like to have a word with you about that. Like I said before, you're using the wrong line from PC P&C to say they are the best (I consider win-tacts build quality to be on the same level as zippy, etatis and andyson.)

Reading over my post I don't want to come off as a PC P&C hater, because I'm not. If someone can get a good deal on one, awesome. By all means scoop it up because they are well designed/made. My problems with them is 1) they often fail to be priced competitively with PSU's from other manufactures that are in the same league as them and number 2) PC P&C zealots.

[Super Nade]

Um, it's not baseless and not a marketing gimmick. It is my own knowledge of the field making my own personal judgment. It is my job to know this kind of stuff. I'm sorry, you just aren't entirely correct with this one :-/. You can go tell the 3rd ranked engineering college in the US and top 5 or 6 in the world that they are wrong if you'd like, heh. I don't need to "find some article" to tell me this, I just know it.
Anyway, that is not the point. Personal judgement has no legs without facts and hard data. Show me the numbers and I will be more inclined to accept that point of view.


It doesn't make as big of a difference with like low-end 300-400W models, but once you get up to 750W-1kW, it is just not a good idea. Sure you will "probably" be okay, but thats the same probably that goes with everything computer related acting like it should. Fact is, straight through cabling in any form is always better than "modular". Whether it be electricity/networking/piping/etc. At every connection made of anything of this type there is signal degradation. There really is no arguing this, it is a fundamental law. Fundamental law? Would you please prove that? While signal degredation would be an issue if we are dealing with a HF transmission line, please tell me how this would affect DC signals? Improper connectivity could be an issue, but that can be avoided with good quality mating.


I'm not saying modular won't be "good enough" for you. I'm just saying you aren't getting every Watt your rating says you are getting. As well as the Wattage not being nearly as clean. Which is incredibly important for computer components. Companies make these modular units to offer ease of use for their customers at the expense of quality. Some don't see the quality loss as a large enough deal to sacrifice their easier cable management. Frankly, nothing is worth me risking my $2500+ investment.
Watts not clean? What are you talking about? (couldn't resist the pun :) ) I love nuts and bolts stuff. Can you prove, either by a simple Ohms law calculation (or transmission line calculations if you wish) how you arrived at this? Are you suggestig that using modular connectors violates Electromagnetic Interference compliance?


I always silently laugh when people complain that a high-end PSU isn't modular.

@SuperNade, I am aware you are a moderator and mean no disrespect, just trying to educate.
No worries. I'll stand corrected once you show me data, numbers an experiment or calculations to prove your arguments.

[Surfrider77]

While you guys are all teaming up on Maverick... I also come from 10 years of electrical engineering background. The guy is right. Introduction of various breaks and connectors in any transmission line will reduce its quality. This is common electronics knowledge.

But... I will say that for the purpose of modular PSU design, I think its absolutely negligible due to the fact its simple DC current we are talking about here.

Modular PSUs arent high on my priority. I am pretty good at my cable management and I always use the top drivebay to stash all the leftovers.

Re topic: My first PCP&C was an 850w SSI. It worked like a champ and was overkill for my old FX60 and SLI'd 7900GTXs. The thing I didnt like was the fact it was loud. I mean, it was the loudest component on my system and I could hear it over my Tuniq on full speed.

That noise bothered me so much, I replaced it with the newer 750w Silencer in Black, despite the fact my 850w was in perfect functioning condition. I couldnt be happier with my new PSU. Its dead silent and has all the stability and efficiency that has made the PCP&C name what it is.

+1 for the PC Power & Cooling - Silencer 750w

[Peepaw]

While you guys are all teaming up on Maverick... I also come from 10 years of electrical engineering background. The guy is right. Introduction of various breaks and connectors in any transmission line will reduce its quality. This is common electronics knowledge.

But... I will say that for the purpose of modular PSU design, I think its absolutely negligible due to the fact its simple DC current we are talking about here.

Modular PSUs arent high on my priority. I am pretty good at my cable management and I always use the top drivebay to stash all the leftovers.

Re topic: My first PCP&C was an 850w SSI. It worked like a champ and was overkill for my old FX60 and SLI'd 7900GTXs. The thing I didnt like was the fact it was loud. I mean, it was the loudest component on my system and I could hear it over my Tuniq on full speed.

That noise bothered me so much, I replaced it with the newer 750w Silencer in Black, despite the fact my 850w was in perfect functioning condition. I couldnt be happier with my new PSU. Its dead silent and has all the stability and efficiency that has made the PCP&C name what it is.

+1 for the PC Power & Cooling 750w


Surf your first paragraph says it all. Study Intro to DC electronics.:)
As Surf said it will most likely cause no problem but it does introduce another point of possible problems.

I repair electrical connections on cars every day. It's almost always at the connector. They get a bit loose and the connector gets hot from the added resistance of the loose connection. It just gets worse from there till the connector will literaly melt.
I'm not an engineer but I do have 2 years of EE, mainly DC.
In any circuit the last thing you need is an un-needed connection.

Like I said and I think Maverick said the same, unless you constantly plug and unplug your stuff, it most likely will never cause you a problem.

But anyone that has studied electronics theory knows that connectors are not as good as straight wire.;)

[RangerXLT8]

There's a Silencer 470W and Silencer 610W ;).

Do we see a trend for my choice of PSU's ?

Silencer 470 is a good choice for X600. If you plan on getting a video card in the future that draws more power then get the Silencer 610. Like the Silencers, the Antec Neo HE 430/550 are also Seasonic built.

I was a die hard PC Power & Cooling Turbocool fan, but the Silencers just are not built like the Turbocool line, nor are they even close to the Turbocool line.

Having recently sold my Turbocoo510, I picked up a Silverstone OP650.

[Section8]

We're talking about 2 seperate power supplies used in two seperate computers on two seperate UPS units connected to two seperate outlets in seperate rooms. The only thing common is that they are both located in the SAME HOUSE

Now what was that again about about something being wrong with my "system"?

OK something wrong with the wiring in your house then :) Or like I said your the unluckiest man alive.

[bing]

IMO, nowdays with these high wattage PSUs and with high current rails, quality PSU reviewers should start the "trend" of presenting the result of the measurements on the voltage drops (or better using scope views) starting right from the secondary output "on the PSU's PCB at the ouput cap's pin" right to the "mobo or gfx headers pins". Especially for the high current rails.

Anyway, this is feasible since most of them always opened up the PSU and exposed with the PCB and with scope in hand. :D

Then I hope with this kind of results, the debates on whether modular or non modular cables are good or not will not exist.

Cause even without modular design, a poor termination at either ends will cause bad result in high current loop.


My 2 cents. :D

[Maverick0984]

We're talking about 2 seperate power supplies used in two seperate computers on two seperate UPS units connected to two seperate outlets in seperate rooms. The only thing common is that they are both located in the SAME HOUSE

Now what was that again about about something being wrong with my "system"?

We're just saying if there are 1000's of their PSU's and 2/1000 go bad (probably about their %), you getting both of those is highly unlikely. Maybe the power drawn from your circuit breaker is crap. Or maybe your UPS's aren't rated to handle that kind of load and aren't sending the right amount of power.

The UPS's that you used, are they they passthrough or are the PSU's always taking power directly from the UPS?

EDIT: whoops, didn't know this was already addressed. I guess I +1 towards Section8's comment.

Cause even without modular design, a poor termination at either ends will cause bad result in high current loop.

Basically what I was saying, but IMHO, having the modular design creates a greater likelihood of a "poor termination". If anything, you would have 2 on nonmodular and 3 on the modular, thus giving 50% more chance of a bad connection :-/.

EDIT: Well, I didn't see all the extra posts claiming how wrong I am. Really makes me laugh, too bad I don't feel like disproving and discounting each and every line like you attempted, and trying not to let this turn into a flame.

I know I'm right, I don't need to convince you fellas :beer: Some of your statements are obvious that you just haven't worked with this stuff on the basic level like some others have. That's fine, I have no problem with that, but you should know what your saying just isn't right and that it would make my professors and colleagues choke on whatever they are eating.

Thanks to Surfrider77, Peepaw, and bing for the collaboration. :santa:

I <3 this thread.

Also, @Super Nade, "numbers" and "calculations" wouldn't be much use really. I could say the same thing to you about proving your statements :-/ It's easy to just say that. I'm talking about bad connections and whatever. If you want an Ohms Law equation... even though I think it is pointless. Just open up a book and Section 1.1 will have something about this.

R1 = Resistance w/o modular
R2 = Resistance w/ modular

V = I*R
I = V/R

R1 < R2 if anything ill happens to the modular PSU "extra" connection. Keep in mind this threat is 100% eliminated with nonmodular PSU's.

So....
I1 = V1/R1
I2 = V2/R2

Now after failing connection...

I2 < I1 Now that means I2 is now getting "less" current if you will. Less current that could mess with your stuff :( Cause things to attempt operation at "lower than spec" things like I stated in my first couple posts. Think of it like a "brown out." That can really screw up your computer right?

Obviously this connection might not fail, and you *might* be okay. Just like others have mentioned, you will most likely be okay. But why introduce an extra layer of possible failure? I just don't see it as a wise business decision is all. I route my wires perfectly fine, I see no need to add that extra layer of fault tolerance.

Another more obvious way of stating this, which would you rather have, a single continuous 10' long power cord? Or 10 1' power cords all plugged in, in series? Clearly the former right? Now the modular PSU design is just a much less obvious version of that analogy. If you wouldn't mind the 10 1' cords, keep that to yourself ;).

Seriously though guys, I am having genuine fun with this thread, none of what I'm saying is directed in any sort of ill will or sarcasm, even though some of yours comments seem like they are ;). Hopefully I didn't do anything wrong or say something stupid, it's 1AM and I have to get up at 5:30AM for work >_<.

[Vento1]

It is 20 years since i finished my electricians apprentiship i agree Maverick the least number of connections is always prefered. But i did learn on machinery which drew 2000 amps in operation slightly diferent, I have used modular psu's i think they are fine. I also have wanted a pcp&c power supply for a long time and having recently bought the 750 silencer i am very happy with it.

[Maverick0984]

I think captain subtext is going to help me with this one...


Read: I'm ignorant of the fact that PC P&C silencers are manufactured by Seasonic. (Just an FYI, the turbo-cools are manufactured by Win-tact and if your going to be putting PC P&C on a pedestal and claim they are the best you should really be using the server grade turbo-cools as your proof)



No, I knew that Seasonic has an influence on that line. I was trying to make obvious the fact that I think *all* lines PC P&C make are quite excellent. I only suggested the Silencer series because that is the line the original poster mentioned.


Read: I've going to ignore hard numbers because they disagree with my pre-existing notions/fanboish beliefs.
I wasn't telling anyone to rush out and buy the TT 1.2kW unit( althought CWT did a very good job with that PSU), just using it to disprove your, modular doesn't work at 1kW theory.

Pre-existing notions = Fact :beer:

I don't think that disproves anything at all...it's a brand new unit which is unlikely to exhibit the problems I've been mentioning all along. I tried to make that also obvious when I said it would take more than something like this for me to go out and buy one.


I think u did that a few posts up where you said "PCP&C are the best in the business in terms of PSU's."

I think server grade manufactures like Zippy, Etatis, and Andyson might like to have a word with you about that. Like I said before, you're using the wrong line from PC P&C to say they are the best (I consider win-tacts build quality to be on the same level as zippy, etatis and andyson.)


lol, again, all I did was mention the company I think is the best for his use in my first post. Everything after that has been focused on the modular vs. nonmodular topic.

Lastly, I don't feel it necessary to seperate classes. You can't compare apples to oranges. Desktop quality vs. Server quality? That is what you are saying I am doing. PC P&C has a top PSU in each class, and the Silencer is certainly one of the top in its class. Don't read too much into what I'm saying :o. I never intended to compare the Silencer series to high end beefy server versions :confused:.

Anywho, off to work.

[Gautam]

Hm, there's no doubt that your theory is correct Mav but what's important for us is what happens in practice. PC power supplies don't have anywhere near as much current running through them as the other listed scenarios. (ie cars)

There's no doubt that there's extra resistance from the modular connections...but does that manifest itself in any way in practice? If it really were a significant problem, you'd think we'd have at least a couple complaints of melted connectors etc over the years. One could probably come up with several pages listing the flaws in most PSU's on the market, but is the perfection necessary in practice? Modular PSU's exist because they're convenient and practical. Not theoretically optimal, but that's not what's important.

Win-tact and Seasonic both make awesome PSU's. My favorite Seasonic happens to be the Corsair 620HX, which is modular. :p It bears a reasonably strong resemblance to the Silencer 610. I've seen both of them handle the same sort of loads without any issues. But the Corsair is quieter and can make for a tidier case. ;)

[dribblesnort]

OK something wrong with the wiring in your house then :) Or like I said your the unluckiest man alive.

Yeah...something must be wrong with the "house" because the other 6 PSUs in my other 6 systems and all my electronics and all my appliances have worked fine for 6 years...ok..I'll get right on that and completely re-wire my house...

[Super Nade]

All your assertions and analysis is based on the assumption that modular connections are bound to fail. I have not seen any complaints to that effect. Possible failure, perhaps. But given the quality of workmanship and thought that goes into this, that is highly unlikely.

Let me repeat, can somebody show me one SMPS that has failed due to modular connections?

[Gautam]

To be fair, there always seems to be one case a year or so pop up here about something going seriously wrong in the atx connector between mobo and psu.

[Maverick0984]

All your assertions and analysis is based on the assumption that modular connections are bound to fail. I have not seen any complaints to that effect. Possible failure, perhaps. But given the quality of workmanship and thought that goes into this, that is highly unlikely.

Let me repeat, can somebody show me one SMPS that has failed due to modular connections?

No they aren't at all, I specifically said, you will probably be okay, but there is an increased chance of failure just like any other thing in a computer. Compare it to overclocking, running at higher volts increases your failure possibility and decreases lifetime. This however actually gives you a performance increase so we all do it anyway. For me, the pros for modular designs don't outweigh the cons. Had you been trained like I had, you would probably agree.

There are companies that make quality modular units, but then there are always defects in every computer component that is ever made. Personally I don't want to take the chance that I get a defect that takes out my $2500 with an arced connection. Certainly with *more* connections, there are *more* possibilities for defects.

Listen to the others with engineering/electricity backgrounds in this thread. I'm not the only one saying this. Google around, this is a highly debated topic and these pros/cons are well documented.

I don't need to show you any one specific example. The fact is, that it is an issue, however small, that someone like me will never want to deal with.

I mentioned PC P&C as one of the top tier PSU companies whom do not currently employ a modular design for this reason. I do not think this is a coincidence. Eventually they might get one because of the whole OCZ situation, but it certainly will never take over all of their lines.

Yeah...something must be wrong with the "house" because the other 6 PSUs in my other 6 systems and all my electronics and all my appliances have worked fine for 6 years...ok..I'll get right on that and completely re-wire my house...

No need for the attitude, we're only trying to help you. I stand by my statement that it was not the PSU's fault. Perhaps if it was only 1 dying on you. But 2 suggests other sources. I'd be willing to compromise and say 1 died, and the other was user error ;). Or if you are so certain then blame UPS/USPS/Fedex.

Sorry, soccrstar, your thread was brutally hijacked :-/

[Oklahoma Wolf]

We're just saying if there are 1000's of their PSU's and 2/1000 go bad (probably about their %), you getting both of those is highly unlikely.

Unlikely, but possible. There was a run of 510's not too long ago that had a whole lot of people coming on forums to complain about how their PC P&C died. If the two in question came from that run, I can see it happening.

As for modular, my position is that as long as the connectors aren't cycled too often, there's nothing wrong with them. Most of the time these are Molex Mini-Fit Junior connectors, just like those used on the other ends of these cables. I find them pretty reliable most of the time.

Anyhow, that's my opinion as an electronics tech with 19 years experience who has worked with this kind of thing on a regular basis since he was 14. Yes, they introduce a potential failure point. I just don't buy that it's a problem for most people, myself included. If I was worried about it, I wouldn't be running the big CWT in my sig ;)

[Super Nade]

I was biting my tongue all along, but now that you have decided to beat on it, I do have the requisite education BSEE, MS(Physics) and I'll have my PhD (Experimental Quantum Optics) {Purdue Univ} by this time next year.

So, perhaps you could consider the possiblity that this forum does have a few others who may have "degrees" ? It is your perogative to do as you please within the forum rules, but I just think it is a bit haughty to go about telling others that they ought to "google it":-/

Anyway, I'm recusing myself from this thread, let the discussion continue. :)

If there is anything that needs to be addressed to me, I'm always available via pm.

[Maverick0984]

I was biting my tongue all along, but now that you have decided to beat on it, I do have the requisite education BSEE, MS(Physics) and I'll have my PhD (Experimental Quantum Optics) {Purdue Univ} by this time next year.

So, perhaps you could consider the possiblity that this forum does have a few others who may have "degrees" ? It is your perogative to do as you please within the forum rules, but I just think it is a bit haughty to go about telling others that they ought to "google it":-/

Anyway, I'm recusing myself from this thread, let the discussion continue. :)

If there is anything that needs to be addressed to me, I'm always available via pm.

Well congrats, you should be proud. I myself went to the Univ of Illinois in Champaign. Go Big Ten!

[Audioaficionado]

I don't believe for a minute that any modular supplies of good build quality will cause any short or long term contact issues in our computers.

However I spec single 12v rails and non-modular wiring for my own systems just because that's the way I like 'em. I'm an electronics tech and know the value of good solid clean connections and the less of 'em in the circuit, the better IMHO.

I've seen several horror stories over the years where people had the motherboard connections literally melt and carbon burn due to poor connectors and/or bad circuit trace power routing.

The better PC cases are now allowing more room under the motherboard tray for wire/cable management. Now you can have your solid connection cake and still get the clean wire management icing to go with it. (Better than that old stuff it into that top empty optical bay trick IMHO)

[cw823]

Good grief.....everything has to be a ****ing match, doesn't it.

What's the quote in nihili's sig....

"He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that"
- John Stuart Mill On Liberty -

Anyone else get CPU magazine? See their write-up on power supply testings? In the mid-range category the power supplies as listed were run on 4 different test systems:
A. "2x FX-74, 2x 8800 GTX SLI
B. "2x FX-74, 1x 8800 GTX
C. "2x FX-74, 1x 8800 GTS (640Mb)
D. "2x FX-74, 1x 7900 GTX

Antec Neo HE 550W
Antec TruePower Trio 650W
Coolermaster iGreen Power 600W
Corsair HX620W
FSP FX600-GLN
PCP&C Silencer 610 EPS12V
Ultra XPro 600W

Of all of those PSUs, only the Corsair and the PCP&C ran system A. The Coolermaster would only run rig D, and the rest ran system B. But what really stood out to me was comments like this:

Corsair HX620W

"Corsair claims that this 620W power supply is conservativly rated. In fact, a spokesperson says that AMD 4x4 and 8800 GTX SLI are no problem for it. I'll say, It ran system A for several hours at more than 180W over spec" "Like PC Power & Cooling, Corsair specifies 105 degrees Celsius industrial capacitors" "Its gold-plate connectors address one of the drawbacks of a modular PSU-oxidation of the contacts, which increases resistance and robs power"

PCP&C Silencer 610 EPS12V

"Like the 620W Corsair, this 610W unit outdid its specs by a large margin. It ran system A for several hours without complaing. Despite a load 133W heavier than its rated maximum, the Silencer kept on truckin,' albeit with a little heat".

One thing worth noting is that these models are BOTH made by Seasonic, and the Corsair is modular, while the PCP&C is not.

Other article comments:

"The advertised wattage rating is the one figure that every computer looks at when choosing a power supply. The problem is it's a figure you can't really trust. I found a PSU advertised as an 1,100W blockbuster (cw - this was the Tagan TurboJet TG1100-U96 1100W model), but it couldn't run a cutting-edge PC without randomly rebooting. At the same time, some so-called 610W and 620W units powered the same system without any problems."

"Unfortunately, few manufacturers market their power supplies the same way. Some sell PSUs by the continuous wattage ratings the units can pull 24/7; others, by their peak power draws that shouldn't be sustained for more than a minute. Some vendors arrive at their ratings at testing temperatures of 35 degress Celcius (95 degrees Fahrenheit) or even 25 C (77 F)."

Anyways, it speaks highly of PSUs made by Seasonic. If I were in the market for a PSU, I'd buy a Seasonic made PSU no matter what the brand.

Here's hoping this thread resurrects itself from the poop-flinging thread it was becoming

[Adragontattoo]

Well congrats, you should be proud. I myself went to the Univ of Illinois in Champaign. Go Big Ten!

Dude, you NEED to drop the attitude and fast.

Super Nade, JohnnyGuru and OK wolf are the three people that you REALLY dont want to argue with regarding PSU's!

You wont be here long if you dont stop with the attitude.

[Adragontattoo]

Regardless,

I have 2 different PC&C 510s that I bought from members here on OCF, both are running rigs next to me and I have NO complaints about them.

I also have a zippy 500w and a FSP Blue Storm 600w in rigs next to me, no complaints about them either, well the FSP is beginning to have issues (I think, trying to track down an intermittent hard lock issue).

[Drew@PSU]

+1 for the 750W silencer.

My only concern is that running the TEC off the PSU could put a lot of current through some very small wires, which may be dangerous, although I could be wrong. It's drawing 24 amps, which I might worry about, although you should have plenty of leftover juice to run the system. Check the extreme cooling section for some stickies on TECs.

And follow pak's advice and grab one off the refurbished listing ( call for accuracy ). ~165 shipped, good as new, 5 year warranty, its good stuff.

[Moto7451]

For the record, Rosewill = Newegg ;). Not exactly a nobody but it is true that with some products, YMMV.

[grumperfish]

I just bought a Silverstone OP650 from newegg (was on sale for $130- think it's at $140 now) with a single 54a 12V rail a couple weeks ago. For the price of the 610 that Audioaficionado just listed I'd say that's your best bet at the moment (would definitely handle the system you described OP), but if you want to save a few bucks an OP650 would be a killer psu for your needs. It's kicked the heck out of my old one at any rate.


I used to believe the modular cabling-being-a-bad-thing idea, but I recently heard the best argument (IMO) to the contrary yet: power supplies are ALWAYS modular on at least one end. Power supply leads aren't exactly soldered to hard drives or anything. While I personally try to buy non-modular units (especially the cheaper ones), I can't imagine that adding a second modular section could hurt that much as long as the contacts aren't corroded somehow.