Considering taking the plunge

I'm not the first to use that pun, of course.

This damned Opteron is killing me. It wants to overclock, but I just can't get the heat out. I think water might be the solution.


A few things:

1. My Initial Questions.

[I have spent the weekend scouring the last 25 most recent pages of the watercooling forum as well as searching for answers to my specific questions, but I haven't found them.]

A. Does a reservoire have to be located at the highest point in the loop when bleeding the system? It seems to me that either a T-line or a Res should be located as high as possible, but I've seen pictures of people's setups with the res located at the bottom of the rig.

B. How exactly do you bleed the system? I see plenty of people saying that you should turn the case upside down and this way and that, but that doesn't answer some important details. Assuming that the res or t-line is located at the top of the system, what do you do? Poor as much fluid into the system as you can and let it fill up as far as it will go, then turn the pump on to circulate some fluid, then turn the pump off, then fill a little more fluid, etc. until the loop is filled? Then bleed? Assuming you design the loop correctly and place your radiators in the right places and positions, is it even necessary to turn the whole rig upside down?

C: How do you install everything? I know that you should build the loop, fill, bleed, and check for leaks before installing into your case, but what about when it actually comes to installation? Do you install all of your components and then install the hoses last? If so, then doesn't that make it difficult to tighten the clamps on a worm-style clamp? How do you get around the obstacles of all the other components in the system?


2. Here is my current rig and my proposed loop, along with questions.

A. This will be a CPU-only loop. My case is a Lian Li P60 BW +II. I love this case. I know there are better water cooling cases out there. Hell, I know there are better Lian Li cases out there that are better for water cooling. But I don't feel like buying another case at this point, and I like the challenge of using what I already have. I'm running a hot Opty 170. It's de-lidded. Will that cause any problems? Will I need to re-install the IHS?

B. I've performed some minor modications to the case. I removed the top 80mm blowhole and modded in a 120mm fan using a holesaw. It looks great (factory, even) and performs nicely. I also found that the rear-mounted fan, which I happen to be using as an exhaust fan (as opposed to an intake as Lian Li intended) is restricted by the motherboard tray--the tray's hole for the fan is actually a few mm less than 80mm, so it doesn't allow the best flow for the fan, plus the obstruction adds to the case's noise. So I used a rotary tool to remove the excess, allowing my rear 80mm exhaust a clear path.

C. My proposed setup:

1. http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...ge=product_info&cPath=59_336&products_id=3655

2. http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...ge=product_info&cPath=59_200&products_id=3495

3. http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...ge=product_info&cPath=59_201&products_id=2539

4. http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=318&products_id=22013

5. http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...e=product_info&cPath=59_199&products_id=21159

D: Here is my layout. I plan on removing my case's hard drive cage, I'll relocate my single hard drive to one of the external 3.5 bays. The 120mm rad will go to the lower front intake fan bay of the case, pulling in air. The fan will be in the pull configuration. The 80mm rad will go to the rear exhaust fan location. Again, the fan will be oriented in the pull configuration. So I'll have the large rad pulling cool air in and the smaller rad blowing exhaust out. The pump will be located at the bottom of the case in the front near the main rad. The res will go in the top 5.25 bay in the case. The loop will be: Pump -->120mmRad-->Res-->80mmRad-->CPU-->Pump.

E. Additional thoughts: My 120mm blowhole should take care of any residual heat left in the case. However, I'm concerned about my RAM and mosfets. I could easily mod a 120mm side fan into the window of my case blowing down onto the motherboard. This would also add the benefit of giving additional cool air to the exhausting 80mmRad as well as cooling off my RAM and mobo. Again, the 120mm blowhole should get rid of any leftover heat.

F. More additional thoughts: I've chosen water cooling components that offer excellent performance yet are easy on the wallet. My research shows that Thermochill offers better radiators but at twice the cost, and the performance delta is very small. Swiftech gets my nod here. I also find that the Apogee GT is an extremely capable block for a dual-core CPU, and is about 20 bucks cheaper than the GTX or the Fuzion. I've chosen a reservoire over a T-line because I want to save time on the bleeding process.



So, there you have it. My plan as well as several questions. Please critique and criticize.

1.
A> No, the res/T-line can be anywhere in the case as long as it's in front of the pump in the loop.

B> Yes, you fill the res as much as you can, turn on the pump until just before it's sucking air, refill and repeat until the loop is full of water.

Many people will tell you to turn the case all different directions but I didn't have to do that. With the pump and T-line on the bottom and the rad (heater core) above the case, barbs down, I simply let it run for an hour occasionally pinching tubes to force a higher velocity to the water. After an hour I went ahead and turned the case upside down (with some help) but there wasn't any air in the rad or the blocks - just the normal micro-bubbles that take a couple of hours to work themselves out.

C> I install half the tubes on the blocks before putting them in the case. I look at the easiest and worse places to clamp and clamp the hardest ones outside the case leaving the other end of the tube loose. After all the blocks are in the case I go back and attach the other ends of the tubing. You can get a shortie X-slot screwdriver if you wish but my mini, 1/4" socket set does well for this. You'll still need to leak test after the loop is installed.

2.
A> You don't need to reinstall the IHS. But I do recommend a Storm instead of an Apogee - you'll get MUCH better temps. A Storm added 100 MHz to my OC when I swapped it in after an Apogee - the Storms are perfect for de-lidded CPUs.

C> If you do go with the Storm I suggest you go to an MCP355 or MCP655 pump - both will work well with a Storm and dual rads.

D> Again, you really want the res directly in front of the pump in the loop.

E> I'd be tempted to put the rear fan back in reverse mod (pulling in). Your blow-hole should be plenty to equalize pressure and you want the coolest air flowing through the rads. The air doesn't heat up that much going through the rad so you should be OK on internal temps ..

You may have to put the IHS back on. I remember when I took mine off that part of the socket was higher than the CPU and that made the HS tilt... So I had to grind down the part that was resting on the socket a few MMs.

Ben: Yes, I had to do the same thing when I delidded the chip. I used sandpaper to grind down the socket, otherwise the Big Typhoon wouldn't make proper contact.

Bump: I'd really appreciate some more feedback if anyone is willing.

QuietIce: I'll take a look at the Storm. I chose the MC350 because I'm only using the two small radiators in a single CPU loop. I figured it had plenty of head for that loop, and it is far quieter than the MC355 is you look at the decibel ratings. I'd prefer the quiet MC350 assuming it has sufficient flow.

What about my two-rad setup, with a 120mm and an 80mm rad? How will they handle an overclocked 939 Opteron? And will I be able to run the rad fans at low speeds with ample cooling or will I need to keep both fans at full blast to ensure proper airflow through the two radiators?

What about tubing? Will 3/8" be adequate for a single CPU loop, or should I just go with 1/2"

IMO - 3/8" tubing is fine for a short loop. There's a slight increase in resistance because of the 3/8" barb ID though. 7/16" on 1/2" barbs would be better if possible. You could run the 7/16" everywhere except pump to block and T-line/res to pump, which can be 3/8" to fit the pump and avoid reducers.

I'm not sure a 120 and an 80 will be enough for "excellent" cooling but it should be enough to keep temps reasonable.

I guess I didn't realize they were two single rads. Yes, an MCP350 should be OK though you're pushing the lower limit of acceptance with the smaller pump and the one smaller rad.


BTW - The Storm will fit a 939 socket and de-lidded chip w/out modifications. I've got two of them running that way right now ...

How would the two small rads do compared to my Big Typhoon?

"Reasonable" is open to interpretation. RIght now my Big Typhoon isn't keeping heat in check, as I'm already mid fifties at stock voltage with a 2.7 CPU clock. I'd really like to get this proc up to 3.0-3.1 if I can. I figured a CPU-only loop with this two rads would do the trick, but I really don't know what I'm up against.

I'm running two OC'ed Opty's and a 7900GTX (GPU only) off a single heater core and a pair of monster Delta's (rated 140 CFM each). CPUs are running ambient +20°C on SETI load - with a single OC'ed FX-55 on slower fans I was running +8-9°C.

As a WAG I'd say 15-20°C over ambient with slow fans depending on the fans and your vCore ...

As noted Res doesn't have to be topmost. Air bubbles move around the loop continuously. Occasionally some air can become trapped at the top of a higher located component, tiliting or inverting the case will dislodge it and it will end up in the res. I personally have never had to go as far as inverting my loops, a few degrees of tillt always seems to take care of those errant air pockets.

Have my 170 (939 socket) at 3.0 on 1.5 volts. The 170 is a nice oc'ing chip, however to get into the 3.0 range most folks do need to up the voltage to 1.5-1.52.

Stress programs such as OCCT temps peak in high 40's using a G4 storm for cpu cooling. As there are better performing blocks on the market now if you do go water you should see good results. I'd feel more comfortable with at least a 120.2 rad in the system though unless the single rad is a PA160.

calvin said:

Stress programs such as OCCT temps peak in high 40's using a G4 storm for cpu cooling. As there are better performing blocks on the market now if you do go water you should see good results. I'd feel more comfortable with at least a 120.2 rad in the system though unless the single rad is a PA160.

Click to expand...

Are you running lidless? I have as yet to see anything outperform a Storm on a lidless CPU ...

As noted Res doesn't have to be topmost.

Click to expand...

What about when initially filling/bleeding the loop? My understanding was that the res can rest at a low point in the case once the filling procedure is done, but must be at the high point when filling. Is this true?

Wayward_Son said:

What about when initially filling/bleeding the loop? My understanding was that the res can rest at a low point in the case once the filling procedure is done, but must be at the high point when filling. Is this true?

Click to expand...

No it isn't. While all mine have been T-lines a res works the same for filling. My T-lines have always been at the bottom of my loop with the pump ...

Are you running lidless? I have as yet to see anything outperform a Storm on a lidless CPU ...

Click to expand...

No. And you are right, it is very good for small area dies.

What about when initially filling/bleeding the loop? My understanding was that the res can rest at a low point in the case once the filling procedure is done, but must be at the high point when filling. Is this true?

Click to expand...

To reinforce what QuietIce said no its not necessary. A few years ago was using a res/pump combo. So the res was at the lowest point of the loop. Then I've had systems where the res was midway and some at the top. Didn't make any difference.

Cool. Thanks for the replies. Now I just need about $300 and I can finally get my feet wet.

HA! I KILL ME!