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PA120.2 dissolving inside?

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CrackaBoi

Registered
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
I took my loop apart the other day and cleaned all the components (reservoir, cpu block, gpu block, PA radiator, and MCP655 pump) with a strong solution of white vinegar and distilled water. I put it back together today to leak-test it, and noticed tiny blue/metallic flakes coming out of my radiator.
I flushed a few gallons of water through the rad, and I still see some (far less than in the beginning) of the tiny flakes coming out of it.

Is it possible that the vinegar/water solution damaged the inside of my rad? Should I just keep flushing and flushing and see if the problem seizes?

Thanks!
 
That's what I got when running distilled water only for a few months.
And that's why I run about 3% antifreeze in my loop now.
Either the copper is corroding in plain distilled water, or there's some corrosion left over from sitting on the shelf (at the manufacturers) with the flux not fully rinsed out during the production process, and the vinegar soak loosened it up...even though I'm very very thorough at pre-cleaning all my equipment before installing.

Just keep flushing it, it'll get better.
A second soak in vinegar and a 5 minute flush with a garden hose made mine come clean.
 
Thanks, I'll just keep flushin it and hope it gets better. I find it funny however, that this happens now. Ive been running distilled water and pentosin in the loop for about 5 months without problems. The problem arose now when I ran the vinegar through it to clean it.
 
Then it was most likely the second scenario I spoke of, corroding from flux left inside during storage at the maker/seller.
Pentosin should be some pretty decent stuff to run with.
The vinegar probably just dissolved loose the corrosion that was already in the rad when you bought it....exactly why I spend so much time cleaning my new stuff before I ever use it.
 
DO yourself a favor and stop using vinegar. It has been recommended by Thermochill to just use hot water to flush and flush thoroughly. Vinegar is bad for your radiator.
 
DO yourself a favor and stop using vinegar. It has been recommended by Thermochill to just use hot water to flush and flush thoroughly. Vinegar is bad for your radiator.

Hmm, I see. I cant help but wonder then why on earth everyone recommended that I use a water/vinegar solution for cleaning. Wont use it again. Its kinda late now however. I flushed the rad for about 30 mins. I dont see any flakes anymore, but I still see some very very tiny particles. I will use it anyways, just hope it wont clog my STORM.
How does TC recommend you clean the rad then?

Thanks!
 
I've always been a fan of using Isopropyl Alcohol to flush it out. The Alcohol can get into places that normal tap water cant.
 
DO yourself a favor and stop using vinegar. It has been recommended by Thermochill to just use hot water to flush and flush thoroughly. Vinegar is bad for your radiator.
Instead of reading the site, can you find WHY they don't want you using it?

As far as I know, it will not harm the radiator at all, I used this with my watercooling system and everything still works (even though I sold it).
 
Been using it for years to clean my water cooling gear and never any harm done. Ever. Seven years in November to be exact.
If you wish to avoid vinegar though, hot water and dish soap would go a long way in removing fluxes, oils and any solid particles clinging to your rad's interior.
 
Been using it for years to clean my water cooling gear and never any harm done. Ever. Seven years in November to be exact.
If you wish to avoid vinegar though, hot water and dish soap would go a long way in removing fluxes, oils and any solid particles clinging to your rad's interior.

Maybe I'm weird, but I use DOW scrubbing bubbles in the rad when it is new. I just fill it up, let it soak for a few minutes, and then flush it out with hot water, fill with hot soapy water, and flush some more. I used the DOW on my old 6002 block that you can't open and it worked great. I did this with my PA120.3 and it worked fine.

I used vinegar also and never had any problems. I wouldn't worry too much and would just connect the rad separately to a sink and flush it out really well. I use a waterbed flush/fill kit to not only flush the rad separately, but to connect my loop to the kitchen faucet to force flush the entire thing out once I initially put it together. Just rinsing water around in a loop never made much sense to me. Force flushing it out while connected to a faucet really gets everything cleaned out. I then just drain everything well, fill with distilled, rinse, drain again, then final fill.
 
Maybe I'm weird, but I use DOW scrubbing bubbles in the rad when it is new. I just fill it up, let it soak for a few minutes, and then flush it out with hot water, fill with hot soapy water, and flush some more. I used the DOW on my old 6002 block that you can't open and it worked great. I did this with my PA120.3 and it worked fine.

I used vinegar also and never had any problems. I wouldn't worry too much and would just connect the rad separately to a sink and flush it out really well. I use a waterbed flush/fill kit to not only flush the rad separately, but to connect my loop to the kitchen faucet to force flush the entire thing out once I initially put it together. Just rinsing water around in a loop never made much sense to me. Force flushing it out while connected to a faucet really gets everything cleaned out. I then just drain everything well, fill with distilled, rinse, drain again, then final fill.


Yeah, Scrubbing bubbles, EDTA is in it, a chelating compound that works very well for this purpose.
 
I use my sink faucet too. I found a faucet adapter for dishwashers that's ID is the same as the OD of my tubing (snug fit anyway) and it works fantastic for flushing them out after soaking.

I have well water plus a whole house filter system, not that smelly chlorinated city water...
 
Vinegar corrodes copper. That's how it cleans it. It effectively strips away a layer of the surface, which exposes a fresh layer of copper, which then oxidises quicker than the original layer and tends to end up tarnished (blackened), and can thus create even MORE mess than was supposedly there to start with if not flushed properly after the vinegar stage.

As our radiators are assembled with RoHS compliant water soluble flux, hot water is all that is required to flush any excess flux from our radiators. If you flush with plain old tap water (or indeed anything other than distilled water) then you need to reflush with boiling distilled afterwards, otherwise you're introducing contaminants into the radiator which in time will result in biologicals within your loop.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=133038&highlight=flux+water+vinegar
 
Vinegar corrodes copper. That's how it cleans it. It effectively strips away a layer of the surface, which exposes a fresh layer of copper, which then oxidises quicker than the original layer and tends to end up tarnished (blackened), and can thus create even MORE mess than was supposedly there to start with if not flushed properly after the vinegar stage.

As our radiators are assembled with RoHS compliant water soluble flux, hot water is all that is required to flush any excess flux from our radiators. If you flush with plain old tap water (or indeed anything other than distilled water) then you need to reflush with boiling distilled afterwards, otherwise you're introducing contaminants into the radiator which in time will result in biologicals within your loop.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=133038&highlight=flux+water+vinegar

gotta love it when the manufactures steps in and pwn's all the rumours! :beer:

yeah the calcium and such in tap water packs onto everything...
 
That's almost silly man...where do I start.
Of course vinegar corrodes copper, that's how an acid (any cleaner) cleans off corrosion and tarnish.
And yes, the copper will just oxidize again. Copper will do that even underwater, no matter what additive...so will aluminum, zinc and a host of other metals. It's the oxide layer that protects the metal underneath.
It's a matter of microns though, so don't be confused and think that you're going to be having holes ate through your rad. A worn out Scotchbrite pad removes more metal in a single pass.
Also notice the disclaimer they saved for the ending "if not flushed properly after the vinegar stage", exactly the advice that was given several times.

Don't forget that even though it's an ROHS compliant water soluble flux, (hey, like vinegar!) it's left in there after manufacturing, storage, sale, shipping, storage, sale, shipping etc.. corroding the metal further every day until you clean it out, because they aren't boiling distilled water on the assembly line.
So, water cleans out the flux, but what exactly cleans out the corrosion it caused?
Hmmm, maybe a weak <5% acidic solution with distilled water....like...uh... vinegar!!

I don't feel pwn'ed as much as I feel agreed with! ;)
Their information is like a microsoft answer, technically correct, but woefully incomplete.
 
That's almost silly man...where do I start.
Of course vinegar corrodes copper, that's how an acid (any cleaner) cleans off corrosion and tarnish.
And yes, the copper will just oxidize again. Copper will do that even underwater, no matter what additive...so will aluminum, zinc and a host of other metals. It's the oxide layer that protects the metal underneath.
It's a matter of microns though, so don't be confused and think that you're going to be having holes ate through your rad. A worn out Scotchbrite pad removes more metal in a single pass.
Also notice the disclaimer they saved for the ending "if not flushed properly after the vinegar stage", exactly the advice that was given several times.

Don't forget that even though it's an ROHS compliant water soluble flux, (hey, like vinegar!) it's left in there after manufacturing, storage, sale, shipping, storage, sale, shipping etc.. corroding the metal further every day until you clean it out, because they aren't boiling distilled water on the assembly line.
So, water cleans out the flux, but what exactly cleans out the corrosion it caused?
Hmmm, maybe a weak <5% acidic solution with distilled water....like...uh... vinegar!!

I don't feel pwn'ed as much as I feel agreed with! ;)
Their information is like a microsoft answer, technically correct, but woefully incomplete.
I'm glad you said it - it needed saying but I didn't want to argue about it ... ;) :thup:
 
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