View Full Version : HDD Mod? and other questions...
Ok, Im not sure if this should belong in the mod area or here exactly so Im going to post it here.. and If it has to be moved my apologies...
Ok heres the questions I have here...
First, if I was to take and put a switch inbetween a HDD and its power source, would I be able to turn it off and on without damaging it? Now Im not saying with it actually on, just when the entire computer is turned off. Switch the power to it on or off, then turn the power to the computer on or off.
Basiclly what I am wanting to do is to take 2 seperate HDD's and put a switch inbetween each of them. ((on/off) switch )
On one HDD install 98se.. then on the other install 2kpro. Basiclly so with 98 I can run all my games, etc that wont work on 2k. Now when I turn off the 1st, (Win98se) and turn on 2nd (Win2kPro) and then power on the computer.. it should boot to just the 2nd hdd right? or vice versa... correct?
By my understanding, the master boot record is on the hdd not on the mobo or anything along those lines...
Now the reason Im thinking all of this is that I dont want to partition, or do a stanard dual boot. If I had to format the 98se and reinstall I would have alot of troubles with the hdd due to 2k being on it.. so Im trying to think of different methods...
Any Comments would be appreciated..
thanks
IFMU
Shadow рс
12-20-01, 11:54 PM
I guess you could, but what you would probably like better is simply going to the bios, and telling it which drive to boot from.
tell the bios to boot from a specific drive, or just disable one drive. Shouldn't take any longer than powering off the system...flipping 2 switches...then powering it back on. Lot less headache too since no switches would need to be installed.
any reason you don't want to just dual boot? every time you reboot you'd be prompted to boot to 98 or 2k?
Well that would work too. But then everytime I needed to start in one OS and not the other, I would have to effectively reboot twice... Boot, go into bios... reboot yadda yadda...
Where with a simple switch setup, Turn the computer off
Switch HDD's on and off then reboot... done right into the correct OS/HDD....
Shadow рс
12-20-01, 11:58 PM
true, but booting just the bios is very short...it doesn't examin the entire machine before you can get in to it.
if you didn't notice, I edited my post above and added a bit more to it.
LoL... true as well... but still those few seconds to just get in, change and reboot for the changes to work.. It might be that the boards Ive used so far as just slow.. but Thats a few more seconds than I am willing to wait :D.. Im a greedy kinda guy.. I want it NOW.. not wait lol....
And to top it all off.. hell.. I just think it would be an awesome mod... A lil something that someone else hasnt done yet (at least to my knowledge) and Ive read alot of sites on a lotta stuff!~!
The biggest thing that I am worried about is if might hurt the drives doing something like that... I believe the software way about this should be ok.. Im just curious about it hardwarewise more than anything... :D
Shadow рс
12-21-01, 12:07 AM
it would work just fine. You'd need a double poll, single throw switch to kill power to the red and yellow wire of the 4. Leaving the IDE ribbon plugged in would have no effect. (or a single pole, single throw switch for each red and each yellow wire, or 4 switches total, instead of 2)
Ok with the ide, I kinda figured that... Ive left them connected before there and pulled the power to them before.. So I figured that would be ok.. Now what I was thinking was to make and place 4 switches on each drive.. non-momentary switches. On/Off switches... would that still work ok? or would just doing it to the red and yellow be better for it?
Shadow рс
12-21-01, 12:16 AM
not really better, just less complicated. You only NEED 2, but no harm in disconnecting the ground wires as well.
Ok kew kew and thanks :D again !~! :D
Shadow рс
12-21-01, 12:21 AM
glad I could help. =)
wait! now won't the IDE Ribbon determine if the HD is hd0 or hd1???
can't the BIOS ''see'' the difference?
reguardless of which one has power or not?
Right, but if it has no power then it wouldnt be able to read it. The trick to that part of it would be to make bios try to boot from 1 then 2. When the power isnt applied to 1 it will go to 2 since it wouldnt be able to read it due to the lack of power to it.
Ok now I have another question here... Ive gone and bought a couple of switches. They are the top on to one, middle off to both and bottom on to the other.
Im thinking that this should work, but Im not that great at this stuff, learning as I go.
Now the pic that I have is basiclly what it looks like. Now there are three connections on the back.
How do I wire this correctly?
From what Shadow said earlier, the red and yellow is all that would need to be wired through this switch. Now would I put the red and yellow from one on the top 2? and then the other red an yellow from the bottom 2?
Which doesnt make any sense due to what would go in the middle?
Sorry but Im a lil lost here. I understand some basics, but thats about it.
IFMU
Ridenow
01-07-02, 11:01 PM
You are going to a lot of trouble for something simple. What you should look at is removable drive bays. Mine have a keylock that disconnects the power. With the proper setup in BIOS you can do what you are suggesting. The CS setting for the hard drives would probably work best. If you do not like that then you could actually remove and replace the drives. My bays cost me $15 each and have 2 cooling fans.
Yes, you can disconnect a hard drive when it is powered on, but you can not reconnect one and expect it to work.
Originally posted by Ridenow
Yes, you can disconnect a hard drive when it is powered on, but you can not reconnect one and expect it to work.
Sorry but I dont understand what you mean here...
What I am wanting is a switch, when the computer is OFF, to be able to select which drive to give power to, and which not to give power to.
ROM Trios Hard Drive selector review (http://www.3dretreat.com/reviews/trios/page1.shtml)
Another website's opinion. (http://www.hothardware.com/hh_files/CCAM/trios.shtml)
I think this is what you are looking for.
That is exactly what Ive been wanting to do. Now to do some research and see how much these parts cost... thanks MoR!edit
Ok I did a small search.. $80.00... not to bad.. A little more than I really have to spend...
Still kind of curious how I could do this myself :D
Did something similar. Had two removable drive trays with each one containing a HD set to "Master" Then I used the key on the trays to select what HD I used. So that did what you're thinking of, power of, set switches, power on, using new HD. But this solution was far from perfect, so instead I did this:
Used a switch to change master/slave settings on both drives!
So, power off, slide switch over, power on. Now booting from the other drive, but still both drives available.
And your switch should be wired like this: (For the way you originally thought of...)
Shadow рс
01-08-02, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by Ridenow
Yes, you can disconnect a hard drive when it is powered on, but you can not reconnect one and expect it to work.
Actually, that would be dependant on the OS. Which brings a good issue. Any chance you'd want to access the other drive while booted off eiter? I can plug in a drive (and the removeable drive bay is an excellent idea) in on XP or 2k and have it pick up the drive from the device manager. If you had XP on one drive....2k on the other, you could say.....boot from the XP drive....plug in the 2k drive after it's booted, and have access to both. Or visa versa.
TruckChase!
01-08-02, 10:36 AM
I don't think you'll be able to do this. I have a suspicion that you'll have signaling problems over the cable, but I don't have anything to prove my suspicion.
Feel free to prove me wrong. :)
Actually if you look at that link - thats proof that it can be done. I was looking for the way to do exactly what that hardware is made to do.
Im not sure I follow what you mean Veland...
And Ive thought about what your talking about Shadow.. But Im not good enough with electronics to pull that one off!
TruckChase!
01-08-02, 10:58 AM
Quick Q:
Why are you trying to accomplish something with hardware that's already supported under software? Microsoft's OS Chooser would be significantly more elegant solution.
Mostly just to do it.. I dont like the dual boot type software Ive used before. Just never had any luck with it. Always seemed to do it wrong and it would fry the hdd to at least formatting state... That and of course I just like the idea of having something that someones not done yet...
Im not sure I follow what you mean Veland...
If it's about the master/slave thing (oops, that could be misunderstood! :D ), then what I meant was something like this:
1. Each HD has a master/slave jumper, or a set of jumpers
2. You always boot from the master drive (you can change this in BIOS, I know..)
3. You can use a switch instead of the jumper/jumpers
4. If you do a bit of wiring you can change which drive is the master.
The result?
A switch, that alters both drives and changes their master/slave config. So power down, flick the switch and boot from the other HD while the first is still online, but now as a slave drive.
get it?
Ridenow
01-08-02, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Shadow рс
Actually, that would be dependant on the OS. Which brings a good issue. Any chance you'd want to access the other drive while booted off eiter? I can plug in a drive (and the removeable drive bay is an excellent idea) in on XP or 2k and have it pick up the drive from the device manager. If you had XP on one drive....2k on the other, you could say.....boot from the XP drive....plug in the 2k drive after it's booted, and have access to both. Or visa versa.
True, I am working with W2K and was curious to see if it worked with my carriers.
My suggestion is to put the drives in carriers and use the on/off switches built into them.
litghost
01-08-02, 07:56 PM
i have to agree veland, if your comp accepts that solution it would allow you to have both drives working but you could boot off one instead of the other
That was the whole point of the idea... was to make one bootable and the other not. Then vice versa...
As far as which to boot from that would be determined in the setup and which switch is where...
As far as bios goes, just tell it to look at IDE0 first then IDE 1
when you want to boot from IDE1 you have no power to IDE0 so it cant read it, then goes to IDE1.
I dont follow the drawing you have up there... Been a few hours since I looked at it.. maybe I should now that Im actually awake...
litghost
01-08-02, 08:22 PM
look the drawing just switchs the jumpers without actully switching the jumpers
it takes the place of the jumpers
and if you havent gotten this yet its the jumpers that control which drives are slaves and which are masters
OK Ive gotten the idea of what you meant by the pic.. yup I was right.. just needed to look at it after some sleep...
I do know what jumpers on the HDD's do.. however I have no clue what your talking about there litghost...
litghost
01-08-02, 08:59 PM
you mean with master and slave?
Ok, now I know what the settings and all that are for making a drive master and slave by using the jumpers. What I was wanting to know was how to connect the power to the hdd's but allow only one to get power when the other wasnt. I was half asleep when I looked at that pic that was posted and couldnt understand it. I have however looked at it again after a little more sleep and now get it... I wasnt understanding what you were saying in the beginning of your last post...
litghost
01-08-02, 09:34 PM
ok so you got it, what both me and veland are saying is that switching the power is much less efficant and you could just switch which one is the master and the slave and both will be on and usable
Crash893
01-09-02, 01:42 AM
there is a product that does what you describe
basicly you put one ide ribbon in
and three come out
then it has a push button front that goes in a 5.25 bay that you push the button before starting up the computer and you slect that hdd
im looking for it now but i cant rember where i saw it ( mabey in a jameco catalog or some other computer catalog)
right that was posted earlier in the thread...
Im not following what you mean, switching them? from master to slave? you mean on each boot? to slow.. would have to go into bios every time I wanted to switch OS's (HDD's)
PsycoPhreak
01-09-02, 03:37 AM
If you set your bios to 'AUTODETECT" for the IDE channels that the 2 drives are on, they will be set up automatically depending on which way you throw the switches for the power and master/slave setting.
just a thought.:D
litghost
01-09-02, 05:03 AM
excatally
Shadow рс
01-09-02, 07:10 AM
Originally posted by IFMU
And Ive thought about what your talking about Shadow.. But Im not good enough with electronics to pull that one off!
Simple...mount both drives...only the master has to be in a caddy, but both can be if you like.
Drive 0 is say....2k
Drive 1 is say....XP
If both are plugged in, it'll obviously boot off of 2k, as it's the master. But unplug 0, and it'll be forced to boot of of the XP drive (assuming you set it up that way in the bios)
Now with Drive 0 unplugged, you boot in to XP, then plug in/turn on (via the switch on the caddy) Drive 0. Go to the device manager and have it detect new drives. Boom...you have both drives and access to both drives.
Ok, obviouslly my point wasnt understood, or Im not quite following everyone elses. Oh well I know what Im wanting to do and have the idea that I need to do this.
Thanks for the help to all!
litghost
01-09-02, 01:14 PM
man i miss the days where there was no autodetect, and you had to do everything with jumpers
Breadfan
01-09-02, 08:53 PM
I didn't read the entire thread, but got through most of it, its quite simple actually.
yes a switch would work great. Mobile removable hdd bays usually have locks. These aren't for security...leave it unlocked and the power is off. So, yes, a simple switch to cut power to the drive would work.
If you ahve two drives, just set your bios to autodetect where they are.
To use on OS, turn on drive 1, turn off drive 2
To use the other, turn off drive 1 and turn on drive 2.
It'll work great.
I did a simliar setup on a KG7-RAID. Had 2 60gxps in RAID 0, and one other using the ATA100. Set the bios to autodetect the ATA100 drive, and the RAID bios to autodetect. Then set the boot sequence to IDE then RAID array...depending on what was turned on depended on what booted...works like a charm...
Mike
Thanks breadfan.. thats what I thought.. was wanting to get others opinions on it first ... Thats exactly what I was wondering...
And thanks to the rest that have helped :D
Crash893
01-10-02, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by IFMU
right that was posted earlier in the thread...
Im not following what you mean, switching them? from master to slave? you mean on each boot? to slow.. would have to go into bios every time I wanted to switch OS's (HDD's)
no the only thing it changes is what master dirve is seen by the computer
the other 3 dont get power ( its kinda of a waste)
its just a push button seleter
still looking for a pic
I think this is what you want. www.nicklock.com Its a device that lets you select wich hard drive you want to boot up off of.
Another example of what I am looking at.. thanks !~!
Breadfan
01-10-02, 03:23 PM
Not a problem...the HDD bays worked extremely well for me...so any switch would work...its great for physically seperating files and OS's...
As for switching drives off and on without restarting, good luck :) :) Those mobile bays aren't exactly hot swappable...maybe in solaris, but if you wanna freak out windows then go ahead and swap drives :eek:
Hope it all works for you and you get it configured the way you need...
Mike
Right I wasnt really looking for anything hotswapable really.. so thats no loss...
Crash893
01-11-02, 01:28 AM
here it is i found it
like i said kinda of a waste but it should do what you want
http://www.911.co.kr/Trios/en_product.htm#33
http://www.911.co.kr/Trios/en_index.htm
Shadow рс
01-11-02, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by Breadfan
As for switching drives off and on without restarting, good luck :) :) Those mobile bays aren't exactly hot swappable...maybe in solaris, but if you wanna freak out windows then go ahead and swap drives :eek:
under the NT kernel you can indeed swap drives on the fly. Obviously not the drive the OS is running on, but any alternate drive you can. Try it before you doubt it.
Ok, this is going to be a reallllly big bump here... heh.
Now, Ive gone and finally got the right setup here to try this out. Now, heres the full situation on it.
I have 2 hard drives. On 1, XP will be installed. On 2 Linux will be installed.
Now, I have the switches made for this and am going to put it into a floppy bay cover. My new question to this is, how can I setup an LED to show which HDD has power to it?
Is there a way to wire in an LED to the power that goes to each HDD? So when say HDD1 has power, its LED is on but not HDD2's LED?
I know it can be done, obviouslly. But how?
Is there a way to do it without getting resistors or whatever? Can I plug in an LED straight into the 5v line? Or is that too much juice? I dont know much about this area of power etc. So any ideas?
Thanks
donny_paycheck
10-14-02, 11:16 PM
Use any old LED and a 330 ohm resistor to run it off the +5 volt line. Use around a 670 ohm resistor for +12v.
connect each LED to the power going to the drives at the switch itself (easiest place) and you'll be all set. You will need resistors, though.
Crash893
10-16-02, 02:21 AM
you could put both the drives on cable select and then run somthing simmaler to a baybus to a panel up font where you kill the power to one of the drives
Ok, this is how it is setup. Granted, my drawings can barely do it justice, and Im sure its at least slightly undeciferable. But I think it gets the point across.
Now, as you can see in this pic.
The switches are inbetween the molexs. There are 2 switches total.
Switch 1 has 5v and grnd
Switch 2 has grnd and 12v
Top is hdd 1
Middle is no power to either
Bottom is hdd2
Now, my next step, is that I want to put an LED into there so I can see which has power and which does not.
What do I need to get this setup right? What kinda resistor? What are the specs I need on it?
This pic shows how I have the actual wiring wired through.
donny_paycheck
10-16-02, 07:03 AM
That wiring looks good.
Get a pair of LEDs and 330 ohm resistors. Connect each LED to either side of the RED switch, i.e. in parallel with the +5v heading to either hard drive. When you send power to one HDD or another, it will also go to the LED for that drive.
Make sense?
Yea, enough I think for me to get it. LoL.
Originally posted by donny_paycheck
Connect each LED to either side of the RED switch
Make sense?
Thats the only part that confuses me. Either side of the switch?
Maybe just misunderstanding the context of how you put it.
The LED would need to go between the molex and the switch on the hdd side of the switch correct? There it would be drawing power at the same time as said hdd would be right? Where if it was otherwise, it would be getting power all the time as long as power was going through.
Ah well, I think I am pretty sure where it needs to be.
Next step is to get the ohm resistors Im needing for this and give it a shot!
Thanks folks.
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