View Full Version : XP users CAN STILL BENEFIT from DX10 effects
SteveLord
10-28-07, 11:13 PM
Here it is.
Maximum PC Holiday 2007 "2008 Tech Preview" Front Cover Page 26
Microsoft tied DX10 to its newest operating system-for no reason other than to force consumers to buy Vista. And gamers have embraced Vista about as enthusiastically as they did Windows ME. According to Valve's Steam gaming service, which recently compiled stats on more than a million users, less than 3 percent of users had machines equipped with both a DX10 compatible video card and Vista.
"[Microsoft's] decision to couple DX10 with Vista was a mistake," said Valve's Directory of Marketing, Doug Lombardi. "There is no difference between running Orange Box games on Vista versus XP, but there are some benefits to having a DX10 GPU."
Lombardi told us that gamers with DX10 video cards will see more sophisticated facial animation in TF2, but he also said that this advantage springs not from Valve using DX10 API or Shader Model 4 - its not using either - but from the unified architecture that is unique to DX10-class GPUs. So it doesnt matter whether you're running Vista or XP, it matters only that you have a DX10 card.
XP users are not totally out of the dark, contrary to popular belief. At least as far as Valve's top games are concerned...for now.
Tyranos
10-28-07, 11:17 PM
Thats great, I hope the rest of the developers follow Valve's example.
UnrealAlex
10-28-07, 11:20 PM
Dont think this is a big deal to be honest lol.
Blankfile
10-28-07, 11:24 PM
This sort of reinforce my view that vi$ta is a big scam. Go valve go!
twEEkerAreUs
10-28-07, 11:29 PM
Doesn't really surprise me but heaven forbid you say so to the fanboys. I'm still going to dual boot XP/Vista as soon as a I buy a DX10 card though, not because I like Vista but to test out things. See how SP1 makes or breaks it.
Leviathan41
10-28-07, 11:35 PM
I just like the fact that Valve is taking it to Microsoft in many different areas. They went right at Microsoft's Games for Windows and Live service with the addition of the Steam Community and they also added "achievements" to their latest batch of games. This competition should be good for the gamers and hopefully will force Microsoft to get the ball rolling on some of the things they promised with Games for Windows.
I've always loved Valve's games and am a big fan of Steam. Keep it up Valve!
I call bs, the only thing different between dx 9/10 cards is... they are alot faster.. .were walking 8XXX / 2XXX series here... XP users can only con them selves into thinking "wow i get dx10 for my card"... come on just upgrade already... you are doing it in your hardwarre why not software/os.
UnrealAlex
10-29-07, 12:33 AM
Because it costs money and adds hassle lol.
SteveLord
10-29-07, 01:49 AM
I call bs, the only thing different between dx 9/10 cards is... they are alot faster.. .were walking 8XXX / 2XXX series here... XP users can only con them selves into thinking "wow i get dx10 for my card"... come on just upgrade already... you are doing it in your hardwarre why not software/os.
Because unless you want to play the outdated HALO2, there is no need...or even a huge list of benefits in doing so.
Until the negatives stop outweighing the positives, I'll ride it out for as long as I can. :beer:
rainless
10-29-07, 03:56 AM
I call bs, the only thing different between dx 9/10 cards is... they are alot faster.. .were walking 8XXX / 2XXX series here... XP users can only con them selves into thinking "wow i get dx10 for my card"... come on just upgrade already... you are doing it in your hardwarre why not software/os.
Umm... That's not even close to true.
I think that's in an entirely different dimension from where the truth is located.
Maybe astronomers have some kind of evidence but...
There's the new Shader Model 4.0 to begin with... and a completely different architecture. There are more technical hardware improvements in DX10 that somebody like ViperJohn could probably fill you in on.
But let's not fight disinformation with disinformation.
deathman20
10-29-07, 07:32 AM
Because it costs money and adds hassle lol.
Well if your saying that, they why did you upgrade the GPU? It costs money as well.
Not saying Vista is god of all things, but its better than XP in quiet a few area's. Gaming of course is Vista's weakness due to the newness of the OS and GPU guys have to figure out how to program it properly.
FastRedPonyCar
10-29-07, 07:57 AM
This is preaching to the choir. Anyone who owns a DX10 card and tosses in the modified CFG file to the Crysis folder will realize this as all the DX10 effects can be rendered perfectly in DX9.
Now, my beef with all this vista/dx10 brew ha ha is that crysis runs MUCH faster in DX9 mode with the DX10 effects turned on via the cfg file. Guys with vista doing this are getting like an extra 10~15 fps and the mouse lag that seems to be plaguing the majority of the vista users goes away.
Kuroimaho
10-29-07, 08:14 AM
Way to go MS...
Hope this can be used for a while, the later I have to use that crap the better.
I bet that statement from Valve URKS MS a bit :)
rainless
10-29-07, 10:23 AM
Hehehehe... Everybody's known, since the begining, why microsoft made DX10 vista-only. So this config file and Valves comments aren't exactly going to rock the industry.
But, as the valve guy pointed out, there are differences between DX10 cards and DX9 cards. Just like there were differences between cards that supported Shader Model 3 and cards that didn't.
That said... What made you think that microsoft was some goodly-hearted Samaritan operation?
PingSpike
10-29-07, 10:28 AM
Valve is in a weird spot, they tied themselves pretty tightly to direct3d with HL2 and their games only work (well, natively) with windows. Now they're shafted with the DirectX schism created by Microsoft artificially tying it only to the OS almost no one has. And then MS rolls out their Live for windows which is pretty much a direct competitor to steam and its no wonder they're squirming a bit.
The good news for valve is that steam has been around for awhile, and with its few killer apps is entrenched enough that its fairly strong. The bad news is they have no OpenGL renderer to do an end run around the directX schism.
MS's live service taking on Steam is like NBC/Fox's planned Video site taking on Youtube.
No competition at all, at least for a long time.
hUMANbEATbOX
10-29-07, 10:49 AM
MS's live service taking on Steam is like NBC/Fox's planned Video site taking on Youtube.
No competition at all, at least for a long time.
Well put. :D
Steam gets my goat at times (cough Thursday cough), but they have a massive head start, and I can't see myself caring about Live...they just don't have the games I play.
rainless
10-29-07, 11:08 AM
Well put. :D
Steam gets my goat at times (cough Thursday cough), but they have a massive head start, and I can't see myself caring about Live...they just don't have the games I play.
Despite their headstart, they've squandered most of it. I mean they JUST got a friend's list after... what? Five years now?
And they really should be ahead of xfire as the number-one gamer-to-gamer communications service. EVERYBODY should technically be using steam by now.
It's simple and its effective. Almost everybody has it. It just isn't used across the board yet.
If I were them I'd be making broad, swooping steps to change that fast.
Jacobman
10-29-07, 11:21 AM
Man i get up this morning, drink my coffee and read this. My day is off to a great start, lol. I will never get rid of XP!!!!! Now back to cramming for my test, lol. :D
Maverick0984
10-29-07, 11:44 AM
MS's live service taking on Steam is like NBC/Fox's planned Video site taking on Youtube.
No competition at all, at least for a long time.
At first read I thought you meant Xbox Live. Heh, I don't think that is quite the same blow out, they have a few users ;). I know you meant the Live for Windows though. In that respect, I agree.
PingSpike
10-29-07, 12:06 PM
Despite their headstart, they've squandered most of it. I mean they JUST got a friend's list after... what? Five years now?
And they really should be ahead of xfire as the number-one gamer-to-gamer communications service. EVERYBODY should technically be using steam by now.
It's simple and its effective. Almost everybody has it. It just isn't used across the board yet.
If I were them I'd be making broad, swooping steps to change that fast.
True enough. Valve has taken their sweet time getting their act together on a lot of things. Now they don't have the luxury of being the only game in town anymore.
That said, they are entrenched and will probably continue to become more so because:
1) They've been around longer
2) They've got several killer apps that mean steam is installed on most gamers PCs. What killer games are exclusive to live? Halo 2? MS will have to do better then that.
3) Isn't live tied to Vista as well? Yeah, I don't think third party developers will choose the online distribution mechanism that only 10% of their customers can use.
MS wants to win the OS war, and thats their goal in all these battles: Make people need Vista. Of course, by fighting a different war then everyone else they may just lose all the battles by default!
I'd still be scared if I was valve though...if there's any company with the resources and experience to knock them off their horse its Microsoft.
hUMANbEATbOX
10-29-07, 12:13 PM
And they really should be ahead of xfire as the number-one gamer-to-gamer communications service. EVERYBODY should technically be using steam by now.
I have always hated x-fire. Refuse to use it. Before Steam Community, if I wanted/needed to play with specific people, I'd use MSN/IRC.
deathman20
10-29-07, 12:47 PM
I have always hated x-fire. Refuse to use it. Before Steam Community, if I wanted/needed to play with specific people, I'd use MSN/IRC.
Same way, if I want to play with someone I find there name or jump onto AIM.
Thund3rball
10-29-07, 12:56 PM
Despite their headstart, they've squandered most of it. I mean they JUST got a friend's list after... what? Five years now?
And they really should be ahead of xfire as the number-one gamer-to-gamer communications service. EVERYBODY should technically be using steam by now.
It's simple and its effective. Almost everybody has it. It just isn't used across the board yet.
If I were them I'd be making broad, swooping steps to change that fast.
You said it rainless.. I think Steam is probably in a more fragile position than maybe apparent. They are just this year scrambling to get new features up and running like the Steam Community. This should have been implemented years ago!! And I have found the Friends Chat app somewhat ... should I say... less than good :\ They were riding their wave for so long and now a big bad competitor is on their heels and they need to step it up. This situation, in any industry, usually ends in one of two ways, they get their ass in gear and DO IT, or they don't and they fade away quietly holding on to a few dedicated customers...
Tyranos
10-29-07, 01:02 PM
All I really wanted steam for was to be able to have a centralized app that I could purchase games and related merchandise and download them immediately. I could care less for all the buddy buddy community crap. Then again, I don't like myspace and all those sites too. I'd rather not have steam turn into steamspace. At least those other sites have cleavage showing girls, Steamspace would have cleavage showing fat gamer guys.
Steam was never meant to work like X-fire. It was meant as a service to download software and keep all valve games proper.
xfire sucks imo. Used it once and never again. If I cant to find friends I just use the ingame friend features. If the game doesnt have it then I just IM or email them.
SteveLord
10-29-07, 01:29 PM
STEAM FRIENDS worked fine in the original Beta, but then it went downhill upon official release and took years to even begin functioning properly again. I forgot about all that!
WoW_STORM
11-03-07, 03:28 AM
I think it is pretty crappy of Microshaft to try to blackmail us into buying Windows Vista I mean Winblows Blista just to be able to have DX-10. Someone needs to tell them they suck to their face.
VinnyTAMU
11-03-07, 09:53 AM
What I would really like to see is Steam and Apple get together and successfully port steam to OSX. I know they have attempted to in the past, and it didn't really go anywhere but getting an app like steam to run in OSX would be a start to releasing gamers dependency on MS OSs.
What I would really like to see is Steam and Apple get together and successfully port steam to OSX. I know they have attempted to in the past, and it didn't really go anywhere but getting an app like steam to run in OSX would be a start to releasing gamers dependency on MS OSs.
it will never happen though.
=ACID RAIN=
11-03-07, 10:31 AM
I used x-fire once too, and removed it from my computer shortly after. Running a site/server/clan, I get bugged enough already. Last thing I need is ANOTHER way for people to track me down when I'm trying to get away and pop some heads :p
To the original topic, I'll buy vista eventually, but not because I must have DX10 or die. I'll buy it because crysis, which my clan is going to invest in for our future server, differentiates clients based on DX version. Once traffic starts to pick up on the DX10 side (and the majority of our clan has vista), I'll move that way as well.
If M$ came out with DX10 functionality for XP (and I don't think it will) then I wouldn't bother with vista for a long time to come.
VinnyTAMU
11-03-07, 10:52 AM
it will never happen though.
Yea well I still have high hopes for OpenGL 3.0, looks like it will be here early 2008.
Man i get up this morning, drink my coffee and read this. My day is off to a great start, lol. I will never get rid of XP!!!!! :DHe He I use to say the same thing with windows 3.11 :bang head. Went from 3.11 to 98 because everything you bought was USB :D But I'm sticking it out till they make me move just like always. Ever wounder were we would be if windows would of not took over? I'm thinking way farther then we are now
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