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2x PA160 enough?

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Celoth

Registered
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Just wondering if two PA160s with a NB-BlackSilentFan XL2 fan each (56,7 CFM) will be enough to water cool this:

Entire chipset of the Gigabyte GA-X38-DQ6
Yorkfield CPU (not sure which yet, but unlikely to be the fastest)
8800 GT (or the new GTS if it's better)
2x2GB PC-6400 DDR2 RAM
2 x Samsung SpinPoint S250 HD250HJ 250 GB HD

According to this, I guesstimate about 300W heat dissipation from the two PA160s. I might not actually water cool the entire chipset, but let's say I do, and I OC the FSB/CPU and GPU moderately. Can the two rads keep everything within tolerable temps? Yorkfield and the new 8800 GTs run cooler than the other chips from what I understand. I can fit in a 3rd PA160 in front of the PSU if I really have to, and let the PSU suck air in through it, but I'd rather do without the extra expense. :)

Let's say I insist on WCing the CPU, GPU, NB and HDs. How much heat dissipation will I "save" by not WCing the SB, Mosfets and RAM?

I know there are other considerations like the max head and flow in general, but I'd like to focus purely on the heat dissipation side of it for now, so assume I have a pump strong enough to handle it all.
 
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There is absolutely no point in cooling the hard drives with water cooling. Same goes for the mosfets and RAM.

Rather get good heatsinks for those, and a fan for the hard drives, trust me :D

Adding those blocks to the loop will just restrict the frow.

Also, you will probably be better off getting some thermalright chipset coolers for the north- and south bridges.

That way you will have maximum cooling for your CPU and graphics only loop....

About the cooling of the PA160's - Sorry, no idea :)

The issue is not that the extra components like RAM etc will add more heat, but that the blocks will be too restrictive for the flow
 
There is absolutely no point in cooling the hard drives with water cooling. Same goes for the mosfets and RAM.

Rather get good heatsinks for those, and a fan for the hard drives, trust me :D

Adding those blocks to the loop will just restrict the frow.

Also, you will probably be better off getting some thermalright chipset coolers for the north- and south bridges.

That way you will have maximum cooling for your CPU and graphics only loop....

About the cooling of the PA160's - Sorry, no idea :)

The issue is not that the extra components like RAM etc will add more heat, but that the blocks will be too restrictive for the flow

Right, I know about the restriction it'll add. :) But I want to focus on the heat side here, so I can get a better idea of that factor. Then I can add all the factors together for a final judgement call.

Specifically about the HDs, noise is a factor, and watercooling them makes it possible to get them much more quiet (and cooler if done right) than a fan + suspension can (can't really get rid of the seek noises with suspension), because I can wrap them up in steel and sound dampening foam like no tomorrow with WCing.

Part of my "quest" is to remove as many sources of noise as possible from the system, including fans, while still keeping it in (or on) one case. I also thought of bolting one of those big 3x3 120mm rads onto the side for passive cooling, but not sure it can do the job properly. I suppose I could bolt one to each side for a total of 18 x 120mm radiator surface....... but I prefer the PA160s since I already have two of them. :)

I am not aiming for massive overclocks, just whatever I can get away with without overheating. If need be I'll run everything at stock values and undervolt instead for cool operations.
 
I have a 7800gtx and my cpu hooked up to one chevette heatercore, which probably has about 2/3rds (if that) of the capacity of one PA160, and it works just fine. Remember, a PA160 is roughly as effective as a dual 120 radiator, so you will have far more than enough capacity with 2 of them.
 
Use Rubber washers with the hardrives, just a slow 120MM fan over it.... HR05s for NB/SB aswell...
 
i might be dumb, but how will WCing a hdd remove any sound from it

WCing the HDs will allow me to cover / wrap the HDs in sound insulating materials, like steel and acoustic foam. I can't do that with air because they'd overheat. My initial plan was to suspend them, add heatsink to sides and let a fan blow air over them, but that doesn't take care of the seek noise. Something like the HD cooler below will allow me to pretty much get rid of all noise from the HD. I hope I can find a less restrictive setup though. Those elbows in the back of that thing look pretty restrictive. :p Maybe I'll make my own mod to it.

Silentstar-Dual-p.jpg
 
Watercooling your hard drives is an absolute waste of money. But hey it's your money to waste and if you want to water cool them because you think it'll be "kewl" or to try and insulate them for a sound reduction, go ahead and waste your money. :)

A 120mm fan is MORE than enough to keep a hard drive adequately cool. I have said this 100 times on here. If hard drives needed better cooling they'd have built in heatsinks like car amps.
 
Watercooling your hard drives is an absolute waste of money. But hey it's your money to waste and if you want to water cool them because you think it'll be "kewl" or to try and insulate them for a sound reduction, go ahead and waste your money. :)

A 120mm fan is MORE than enough to keep a hard drive adequately cool. I have said this 100 times on here. If hard drives needed better cooling they'd have built in heatsinks like car amps.

And again, it's not about the cooling, it's about the noise. And it's also not what this thread is about. Keeping everything cool is easy. Keeping it cool and silent is hard (esp. when overclocking). That's why I am looking for the TDP of the individual components, so I can determine the best way of keeping the system cool and quiet, with the parts I want.
 
And again, it's not about the cooling, it's about the noise. And it's also not what this thread is about. Keeping everything cool is easy. Keeping it cool and silent is hard (esp. when overclocking). That's why I am looking for the TDP of the individual components, so I can determine the best way of keeping the system cool and quiet, with the parts I want.


If that's the case, why even cool the hard drives at all? I didn't have a single bit of airflow over my Seagate ST325060AS when my rig was still together (I'm getting a new rig, but I'm using the same HDD), and that thing was absolutely rock solid, no problems at all. If it's not about the cooling, then why not just skip cooling the HDDs at all? I see you want to wrap them in sound insulation? I'd suspect the drives to overheat even with that, as only the sides of the drive would be getting very little cooling. The tops and botttoms of the drives will be suffocated by the sound-dampening. Have you run drives in a sound enclosure before? Will it get rid of seeking noise?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I personally agree with going for a 120mm fan at low RPMs (I mean, a Yate Loon Low-Speed undervolted I will guarantee is quieter than whatever pump you're using and is plenty to get some air moving over a hard drive), but whatever you feel like doing.

And RAM is the same way. I take some 14ga wire, and make a little bracket to fit in the fan holes of a 120mm fan (same length of a DIMM slot basically), and the fan then clips straight onto the DIMM slots of the motherboard (I don't have any pics ATM). Get another undervolted Yate Loon Low-Speed and you're set for RAM and HDD cooling, without wasting your time getting waterblocks for them.

Just giving you a little insight. Take it FWIW. :thup:
 
WCing the HDs will allow me to cover / wrap the HDs in sound insulating materials, like steel and acoustic foam. I can't do that with air because they'd overheat. My initial plan was to suspend them, add heatsink to sides and let a fan blow air over them, but that doesn't take care of the seek noise. Something like the HD cooler below will allow me to pretty much get rid of all noise from the HD. I hope I can find a less restrictive setup though. Those elbows in the back of that thing look pretty restrictive. :p Maybe I'll make my own mod to it.

Silentstar-Dual-p.jpg

Wow I really like that enclosure!

I see your point about cooling the hard drives.

In that case I would do a separate loop for the hard drives and motherboard(if you still want to cool that). That way you don't have to worry about those restrictive bends :D

If you feel daring, I would get a 120mm rad for the hard drives and motherboard etc. and place it on the intake side of one of the PA160's(basically attach it to the 120mm fan). That way you dont have to get ANOTHER fan in there...
 
i would swap those for two Seagate barracuda 410AS's, there faster, quieter and produce less heat since there is only one platter.

this will also solve any water cooling ideas you have or who ever brought it up.

if i had a lot (i mean a lot) of money i would get hdd water cooling just for the fun of it.

Thanks for link :) The Samsungs are also only one platter, and quiet to begin with, which is why I initially chose to consider them. These look great too. It's certainly true that HD cooling is more expensive, and it adds restriction to the loop, requiring a pump that can pull it.

If that's the case, why even cool the hard drives at all? I didn't have a single bit of airflow over my Seagate ST325060AS when my rig was still together (I'm getting a new rig, but I'm using the same HDD), and that thing was absolutely rock solid, no problems at all. If it's not about the cooling, then why not just skip cooling the HDDs at all? I see you want to wrap them in sound insulation? I'd suspect the drives to overheat even with that, as only the sides of the drive would be getting very little cooling. The tops and botttoms of the drives will be suffocated by the sound-dampening. Have you run drives in a sound enclosure before? Will it get rid of seeking noise?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I personally agree with going for a 120mm fan at low RPMs (I mean, a Yate Loon Low-Speed undervolted I will guarantee is quieter than whatever pump you're using and is plenty to get some air moving over a hard drive), but whatever you feel like doing.

And RAM is the same way. I take some 14ga wire, and make a little bracket to fit in the fan holes of a 120mm fan (same length of a DIMM slot basically), and the fan then clips straight onto the DIMM slots of the motherboard (I don't have any pics ATM). Get another undervolted Yate Loon Low-Speed and you're set for RAM and HDD cooling, without wasting your time getting waterblocks for them.

Just giving you a little insight. Take it FWIW. :thup:

Thanks for the input! When I said it wasn't about cooling, I guess I should have been more clear. :) It's about cooling, but it's also about noise. The particular enclosure I linked does cool them down enough. Take a look here. It's in Danish, but if you scroll down to the graphs, the first blue is the temp of the HD in a standard setup, the second green bar is when the HD is suspended and the orange bar is temp of HD inside the enclosure. 38°C is good enough for me. Yes, that can also be achieved with a fan and heatsinks attached to the sides of the HD, I am sure.

No, I don't know for sure that I can eliminate seek noise 100%, but I sure as heck can get rid of it a lot better than I can with suspension + fan. If it removes noise really well, I can even opt for faster and noisier drives with larger capacities.

Thanks for the tip about the RAM.


Wow I really like that enclosure!

I see your point about cooling the hard drives.

In that case I would do a separate loop for the hard drives and motherboard(if you still want to cool that). That way you don't have to worry about those restrictive bends :D

If you feel daring, I would get a 120mm rad for the hard drives and motherboard etc. and place it on the intake side of one of the PA160's(basically attach it to the 120mm fan). That way you dont have to get ANOTHER fan in there...

Aye thanks I did think of another loop. :) It's an option I will keep in mind if the pump I am currently looking at (4.2m / 13.77' max head) can't provide enough pressure in near silent mode.

Going back to the original topic, I found out on another forum that the total TDP of the X38 board is 26.5W according to Intel. Most of that will probably come from the NB. Add some overclocking and I am sure that'll go up further though.

The Yorkfield processor does run cooler than Kentsfield, according to this review, so I am starting to think two PA160s are enough even if I watercool damn near everything in the case. Even if I round up to 110W from CPU and 40W from the chipset, that still leaves me with 150W for GPU, HDs and RAM. If I can get away with passive cooling of some of the parts (like SB, mosfets and ram) I'd prefer that though, because the pump will run quieter.

EDIT: I should add, I'll probably go with this F-fitting from Swiftech for any chipset, RAM and HD cooling, meaning I'd be running those parallel to the CPU and GPU loop. That way the pressure/flow of the primary loop is still high, and the secondary loop is still good enough to cool the other parts, according to the reviews I have read so far. Here's one of them.
 
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The blocks that are on the chipsets should provide more than adequate cooling as is and I can't see how changing them to watercooling from passive is going to benefit you at all. Same goes for the RAM. Passive is still silent and requires only minimal airflow which you can accomplish with well placed yate loons at low voltage (4v on all of mine). You would be left then with only the CPU/GPU to cool.

I too am a silent freak. Some people just can't figure out that you can watercool for silence as well as performance, which can include a hard drive solution. I use a DD Aquadrive for the hard drives and am pleased with it despite all of the naysayers. It is very unrestrictive and would lend very easily to building an enclosure around. I probably should try this as by far the loudest thing in my system is the hard drives.

The entire reason I changed to watercooling was for silence which using a DDC with a PA120.3 and 6 yate loons (3 for rad, 3 for case) all at 4v achieves very well. Also, you don't want to forget to get a quiet PSU as that can also be a source of a lot of noise. I am very pleased with my Antec Trio.
 
Thanks for input. Yeah I think I resigned myself to using the built in heatsinks on the X38 boards, with one or two undervolted Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XL1 blowing across it. The NB fans got a good review at SPCR, and cost around the same as the yate loons in my neck of the woods.

My only concern is whether or not the built in heatpipes on the X38 boards work properly upside down, since I have a Lian Li PC-V2100B Plus II case. Asus have said they recommend not mounting their MBs upside down. On a quality heatpipe, gravity and orientation shouldn't matter, but I guess they use crappy heatpipes or something. Fortunately there are other good MB makers out there, like Gigabyte.

I guess that leaves me with finding a decent passive heatsink for the RAM (if necessary). One where I don't have to remove the existing heatspreader. :)
 
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Just leave the ram alone :) These days they don't really produce enough heat to warrant any additional cooling. As long as you've got good case airflow, your good with the ram.
 
Just leave the ram alone :) These days they don't really produce enough heat to warrant any additional cooling. As long as you've got good case airflow, your good with the ram.

I think I've decided to try without extra heatsinks at first, like you suggest. If they run too hot I can always add two of the Watercool Micro RAM Heatkillers to my parallel HD cooling loop. They can be used without removing the heatspreaders and they seem to have a very low restriction, because the water can go in from one end and out the other without any bends.
 
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Regarding HDD noise. If you have them bolted in a metal cage, you get very loud seek noise (my TT Armor did this). If you have them in something else (that is made to dampen the noise) you won't hear them at all.

With my Armor, you could easily hear the drives over my Ultra High Speed Panaflo fans on my radiator at full tilt.

After I dropped watercooling and replaced the fans with Yate Loons, the HDD's got very annoying.

Since I stopped doing watercooling, I decided to pick up a new case found in my sig (it's my review about it). It isolates the hdd from the case and I seriously can't hear them over my undervolted Yate Loons. Since you'll be watercooling, this case would not be a wise choice (unless you like modding ;)).

Link here:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=527998

HDD cage:
Cage, no drives
Drive holders
Installed drive
Installed in case
 
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