Someone got a hold of a Radeon HD3870

[majinwar]

Link (http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=202510)

[White_Pawn]

hmm. 11600 with a 3ghz quad doesn't seem that impressive.

[Brando]

I'm waiting to see max oc potential. The 2 core model should be nice with a thermalright cooler oc'd.

[Alacritan]

In comparison, 3870 scored 11669 while 8800GT scored 12495
its cooler than the gt for sure and much quieter... stock was about 40+ deg in aircon room

stock for 3750 was 30 deg i was abit shocked at first haha

Only 800 points difference, it runs WAY cooler (lots of OC headroom hopefully) and it's going to cost $50 less. I'd say that's very competitive.

Later in the thread, they OC'd the 3870 core by 10.6% and memory by 19% and it did 12,961 in 3dmark06.

At $200-225, that sounds like a good deal to me. Nvidia may want to drop the 8800GT by $25 or so, whenever they finally get it back in stock. I wouldn't be surprised if they're sitting on stock to crash the 3850/3870 launch in a week.

[Rattle]

yeah but if its the same scenario as the 2900xt where it benched as well or sometimes over a 8800gtx but in games it falls flat then it doesnt matter how cheap it is. In all reality 3dmarks are USELESS

Having had every card from 8800gts 320 to 8800gtx to 2900xt, I can say the 8800 gt is the most impressive card I have ever owned considering the price, $230 each for me

[brakezone]

The benchmark actually looks pretty promising.

I think I'm going to go for a 3850 if it is 200$ or under.

[Kuroimaho]

Few more benches, unfortunately not compared to 8800GT or the new GTS SSC.

Part 1 (http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6011280&postcount=903)
Part 2 (http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6011285&postcount=904)

I'm waiting to see max oc potential. The 2 core model should be nice with a thermalright cooler oc'd.

Sounds like another leafblower 2900XT to me 200W card better be cheap to make up for that, and I wonder how could you add a TR cooler to a dual VGA.

[Brando]

Few more benches, unfortunately not compared to 8800GT or the new GTS SSC.

Part 1 (http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6011280&postcount=903)
Part 2 (http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6011285&postcount=904)



Sounds like another leafblower 2900XT to me 200W card better be cheap to make up for that, and I wonder how could you add a TR cooler to a dual VGA.

Idk if anything out now will fit it but I'm sure they'll come up with something. If nothing else maybe a used modded cpu heatsink like an xp90-c with some holes drilled in it for mounting(or something like that). I don't have two 16x pcie slots so having both cores on one slot is the way to go for me unless they're really bottlenecked or something. Even if I don't get the dual gpu version the 3870 looks pretty good assuming it oc's well. As long as it comes within....say... 5% of the 8800gt at maximum potential I'll get it just for the most recent dx10.1 compatability and for the fact that it looks to have a far better cooler than the 8800gt. If that's the same cooler they used to cool the x1950xtx it should be enough to get a great oc considering how cool these things seem to run. Saving $30-50 would be great.

EDIT: Ehh...just looked at the benchmarks in your post. Maybe not so much. Bummer.

[Kuroimaho]

I think not the mounting is the problem but the coldplate was designed for one die it doesn't have the surface area to touch another unless two coolers could be fit onto the card but I bet the gpus will be too close for that.

[ViperJohn]

hmm. 11600 with a 3ghz quad doesn't seem that impressive.

That 06 number is pathetic especially since the quad core was a QX9650!

Viper

[Neural Net]

That 06 number is pathetic especially since the quad core was a QX9650!

Viper

Well what's interesting here is the CPU is set to 2Ghz (look at CPU-Z)...

Seems to be usinga 3850 and 3870 in Crossfire?! I'm so confused!

http://resources.vr-zone.com/newspics/Nov07/09/15845xfirex.jpg

[Hazaro]

Well what's interesting here is the CPU is set to 2Ghz (look at CPU-Z)...

Seems to be usinga 3850 and 3870 in Crossfire?! I'm so confused!

http://resources.vr-zone.com/newspics/Nov07/09/15845xfirex.jpg

Speedstep is probably enabled.

Multi card Xfire :)

This is disappointing: http://resources.vr-zone.com/newspics/Nov07/09/12961.jpg

My GT gets 6220 and 6020 for SM 2.0/ SM 3.0

[Neural Net]

Speedstep is probably enabled.

Multi card Xfire :)

This is disappointing: http://resources.vr-zone.com/newspics/Nov07/09/12961.jpg

My GT gets 6220 and 6020 for SM 2.0/ SM 3.0

Didn't know you could use Xfire like that :)

The results are disappointing. Looks as though it'll either be 8800GTs in SLI for me or whatever nVidia might come out with in November (if anything).

[brakezone]

Did you guys actually expect the Hd3000 series to oust the 8800GT? Given that the performance was previously reported to be 110% of the hd2900, that still wouldn't have been able to beat the 8800GT; therefore, I had lower expectations and was not as disappointed.

[Neural Net]

Did you guys actually expect the Hd3000 series to oust the 8800GT?

All articles written on the cards before this information was available suggested that the 3870 would be faster than a 2900XT, so around 8800GT performance.

[brakezone]

I have been reading around quite a bit about both cards and I interpreted it differently was all. I had interpreted that it was an attempt to get the performance up to that level but wouldn't be enough.

To me it will depend mostly upon the price if it will be a disappointment or not. I know not everybody cares about price so maybe I'll just zip my lip now.

[Neural Net]

I have been reading around quite a bit about both cards and I interpreted it differently was all. I had interpreted that it was an attempt to get the performance up to that level but wouldn't be enough.

Well seems you were right. :)

It's pathetic really, it has been a year and a slew of cards since then have come out, but nothing has managed to topple the mighty 8800GTX. It's time for a major leap.

[Brando]

I'd like to see results with a decently oc'd cpu before I judge this card. Seems like the people benching the 8800gt on these forums have their processors at at least 3200mhz or more.

[satandole666]

Again, I'll wait for mature drivers and some user results before I judge a card.

A 3ghz quad is a nice bump for 3d06 scores, but like the guy above me said most people around here don't run their quads at 3ghz.

[Hazaro]

Again, I'll wait for mature drivers and some user results before I judge a card.

A 3ghz quad is a nice bump for 3d06 scores, but like the guy above me said most people around here don't run their quads at 3ghz.

No, this is not a "nice bump"

It's intel's 45nm Yorkfield running at 3Ghz.

Still, coming on par a year late does not bode well at all in my eyes.

[Neural Net]

No, this is not a "nice bump"

It's intel's 45nm Yorkfield running at 3Ghz.

Still, coming on par a year late does not bode well at all in my eyes.

True. I'm still equally disappointed about nVidia's lack of momentum, a card more powerful than the 8800 Ultra is definitely needed now but the only rumours we have are about a 8900 GX2 coming out, and that's a stop gap not a proper solution.

[Brando]

For instance this guy got 14,758 in 06' with a Q6600 at 3.7ghz and 8800gt oc'd to 710\1000.
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=533514
I just want to see the same thing with a 3870 at max oc. I hope they oc higher to make up for it.

[Hazaro]

Max enough?

http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/30642/2001166344361374128_rs.jpg

[rainless]

Max enough?


HOT DAMN!

I wonder why powerful graphics cards are suddenly becoming so cheap?

Is it because I already bought an expensive one? :)

[thideras]

Is it because I already bought an expensive one? :)Yes Rainless, they wait until the SECOND you buy one and cut prices by half ;)

That is all this forum is here for, just to spy on you :beer:

EDIT: Doh, I just told you everything....

[Kuroimaho]

Or because I bought 2 for my rigs.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 8800GT if one with a silent dualslot cooler were released.

[Hazaro]

Or because I bought 2 for my rigs.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 8800GT if one with a silent dualslot cooler were released.

Zalman 1000?

[Brando]

Max enough?

http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/30642/2001166344361374128_rs.jpg

Now I just need to see the same thing with an HD3870. Btw is that 8800gt volt modded?

[Hazaro]

Now I just need to see the same thing with an HD3870. Btw is that 8800gt volt modded?

I don't think so, I run 3DMark06 at 740/1890/1018 and I haven't tried higher :)
If it was voltmodded the core would be 850 and shaders 2000 :attn:

When are they coming out

[Alacritan]

True. I'm still equally disappointed about nVidia's lack of momentum, a card more powerful than the 8800 Ultra is definitely needed now but the only rumours we have are about a 8900 GX2 coming out, and that's a stop gap not a proper solution.

It is a stopgap. Nvidia doesn't need anything at the high end because ATi doesn't have anything to challenge the GTX or Ultra yet. This is great for Nvidia, because the G92 is supposed to be a refined G80 with a die shrink, so yields are good and margins are good too (though not as good as they could be since they priced the 8800GT so aggressively). When the dual GPU RV680 comes out in January, you'll get the equivalent from Nvidia using G92 GPUs, allowing Nvidia to retain it's position as king of the hill with no new architecture required to stay on top. This gives Nvidia plenty of time to make easy money using a refined design with all the kinks in the process worked out. It'll also give them time to do the same with the G100 that's going to be coming out in the summer, so that they can get good yields as soon as they go into volume production.

[majinwar]

Found a link with some prices of the new cards.

3850 256mb = approx $229 USD
3850 512mb = approx $251 USD
3870 512mb = approx $321 USD

Link (http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?shownews=16773&catid=2)

Unless I am misinterpreting the link.. which is possible this late at night..

[lordkosc]

prices seem on PAR with the 8800GT...

we need some performance comparisons!

[Hazaro]

Found a link with some prices of the new cards.

3850 256mb = approx $229 USD
3850 512mb = approx $251 USD
3870 512mb = approx $321 USD

Link (http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?shownews=16773&catid=2)

Unless I am misinterpreting the link.. which is possible this late at night..

Hmm, dropped prices from Cyber Deals

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=534733

2900XT $279.99 + shipping

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102095

2900Pro $249.99 shipped

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102706

2900GT $169.99 + shipping

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102712

[Alacritan]

First of all, while the current valuation of the Dollar puts the 3850 and 3870 at and above the price of the 8800GT if you convert European market prices directly, you have to consider that despite the weak Dollar vs the Euro, the MSRP is about 1:1 US to Euro. So expect the 3850 256MB to be $150, the 512MB to be $170-180 and the 3870 to be $200-225. This will make the 3850 VERY competitive with the 8600 cards (the 3850 512MB is on par or better than the 2900XT at resolutions below 1600x1200), and the 3870 roughly on par with the 8800GT in regards to bang for the buck, but obviously not on par in regards to performance, hence the considerably lower price.

The 2900 prices will come down simply because retailers want to get rid of as much stock as possible the 3800 series launches later this week.

[majinwar]

First of all, while the current valuation of the Dollar puts the 3850 and 3870 at and above the price of the 8800GT if you convert European market prices directly, you have to consider that despite the weak Dollar vs the Euro, the MSRP is about 1:1 US to Euro. So expect the 3850 256MB to be $150, the 512MB to be $170-180 and the 3870 to be $200-225. This will make the 3850 VERY competitive with the 8600 cards (the 3850 512MB is on par or better than the 2900XT at resolutions below 1600x1200), and the 3870 roughly on par with the 8800GT in regards to bang for the buck, but obviously not on par in regards to performance, hence the considerably lower price.

The 2900 prices will come down simply because retailers want to get rid of as much stock as possible the 3800 series launches later this week.

I really hope you are right!! When I converted it in my last post, I was kind of disappointed that the 3870 was over $300 :bang head.. I live in Canada, and even though our dollar is really good, we still get screwed up here haha! Only time will tell how much it will be for us canadians! :beer:

[Hazaro]

I really hope you are right!! When I converted it in my last post, I was kind of disappointed that the 3870 was over $300 :bang head.. I live in Canada, and even though our dollar is really good, we still get screwed up here haha! Only time will tell how much it will be for us canadians! :beer:

It just means that they will hike up the American prices.

[ECH]

Using DX10, the 3870 is 2 FPS behind the 8800GT. More results to come.

Source (http://iax-tech.com/video/3870/38701.htm)

Interesting (http://iax-tech.com/video/3870/38704.htm)point of this review (author native language is not english)

We found ATi HD3870 is actually has better picture process while Crysis benching.

Specially the light refraction from water, HD3870 is very smooth but 8800GT is not. It is around frame 300 to 800.

If you have chance, compare it.

Who's going to take the challenge?

So what's better to you, better frame rates or IQ?

[Mr.Guvernment]

Apparently the AA / Af issues have been fixed as well :)

[Kuroimaho]

Probably go with the 3870 but lets see the prices first.

[dominick32]

Well what's interesting here is the CPU is set to 2Ghz (look at CPU-Z)...

Seems to be usinga 3850 and 3870 in Crossfire?! I'm so confused!

http://resources.vr-zone.com/newspics/Nov07/09/15845xfirex.jpg

Guys,
My 3dmark06 2900XT crossfire scores are identical @ 3.0 GHz and I only own a dual core E6850. If these results are for real, somethings not right because we all know Quad Core owns the 3dm06 benchies.

[Neural Net]

Guys,
My 3dmark06 2900XT crossfire scores are identical @ 3.0 GHz and I only own a dual core E6850. If these results are for real, somethings not right because we all know Quad Core owns the 3dm06 benchies.

The Quad was clocked at 2Ghz - someone in the original thread asked and he wasn't corrected in his assumption that it was running at that speed for the test, (and no it isn't at that speed due to EIST) so that may be why.

[jmorgan]

that bench, is a 3850 and 3870 together so it is only going to run at 3850 speeds

[Dan0512]

The Quad was clocked at 2Ghz - someone in the original thread asked and he wasn't corrected in his assumption that it was running at that speed for the test, (and no it isn't at that speed due to EIST) so that may be why.

Nope, it's obvious that it wasn't clocked at 2.0 Ghz, just take a look at the CPU score, that clearly corresponds to a quad running at ~3.0 Ghz.

dan

[Alacritan]

Probably go with the 3870 but lets see the prices first.

3580 256MB at $150, 3850 512MB at $170 and 3870 at $200, at least in the US.

[Neural Net]

3580 256MB at $150, 3850 512MB at $170 and 3870 at $200, at least in the US.

If that pricing is in any way reflected in the UK, these are going to be very competitive. Do you know if the 3870 X2 requires a Xfire motherboard to run?

[phan1]

I think I'm going with the 3870 simply based on availability. Considering the 8800GT shortage and the websites that are price-gouging, the 3870 could be a good $70 less and be pretty close to the GT in performance. Adding the fact that there's no way I'm running a GT with a single-slot cooler, it could be a good $100 cheaper for me. Plus, I like how ATI drivers don't cheat. ATI doesn't draw stuff different, it draws them BETTER. I just hope availability isn't an issue. Having a new graphics card in time for Thanksgiving weekend would be heaven. :)

[Hazaro]

Plus, I like how ATI drivers don't cheat.

lol, go back to 169.02 drivers then.

I'm still skeptical of those prices, esp with the CAD where it is now.

[Hardin]

Plus, I like how ATI drivers don't cheat.
The cow says moo, the dog says bark, the duck says quack. http://techreport.com/articles.x/3089/1
Yes I know it's old but it shows that both companies have a history of cheating.

[phatty2x4]

The 3870 looks cool but I'm waiting for ATI's dual-gpu card. 2 of those in x-fire on my x38.... oh yeah. :beer:

[glockjs]

3580 256MB at $150, 3850 512MB at $170 and 3870 at $200, at least in the US.

where did you get those prices???

[mblue]

Nope, it's obvious that it wasn't clocked at 2.0 Ghz, just take a look at the CPU score, that clearly corresponds to a quad running at ~3.0 Ghz.

dan

Actually it clearly says "@ 3Ghz".

[Shell]

The cow says moo, the dog says bark, the duck says quack. http://techreport.com/articles.x/3089/1
Yes I know it's old but it shows that both companies have a history of cheating.Heh, everyone has done it.

And ATi does not improve performance by reducing IQ anymore... it's been like that for over 4 years, optimizations are purely OoO centric.

I'm seeing the 3850 and 3870 actually have higher IQ in games with extreme drawdistances and HLSL with a lack of rounding errors, ie. advanced water shaders don't look like static from extreme distances.

[DumpALump]

Ok I have to edit my statement. Looks like prices are going to be under $200 for this card in the other thread. So if thats true, I'd definitely buy this card over the 8800GT to save $50.

With the introduction of this card and the 8800GT that means anyone still holding onto those Gen 7 cards should get rid of them now! Hell if I was holding onto a 8800GTS I'd sell it on ebay for $330 and get two of these cards for CF.

[Neural Net]

Ok I have to edit my statement. Looks like prices are going to be under $200 for this card in the other thread. So if thats true, I'd definitely buy this card over the 8800GT to save $50.

With the introduction of this card and the 8800GT that means anyone still holding onto those Gen 7 cards should get rid of them now! Hell if I was holding onto a 8800GTS I'd sell it on ebay for $330 and get two of these cards for CF.

Crossfire is where I'm headed. If the 3870 X2s are a decent price I'll be going Quad Crossfire. :santa:

[DumpALump]

Crossfire is where I'm headed. If the 3870 X2s are a decent price I'll be going Quad Crossfire. :santa:

Why stop there? why not go Octo Crossfire? :D

[Neural Net]

Why stop there? why not go Octo Crossfire? :D

Hmmm, you make a good point, but four GPUs is the sweet spot, any more and you see diminishing returns. :beer:

[ViperJohn]

Crossfire is where I'm headed. If the 3870 X2s are a decent price I'll be going Quad Crossfire. :santa:

You better get one hell of a lot more system speed if you expect to get anything out of a Quad Fire.

Viper

[Neural Net]

You better get one hell of a lot more system speed if you expect to get anything out of a Quad Fire.

Viper

I'd be going Quad 45nm as well. :santa:

[FlahsMemory]

I dont really care about a few frames. It makes absolutely no difference to me. I want them to have much cooler cards. I hate nvidia cards because they run so hot. Some games even push them to high 80c. I want my card to not go above 65c ever and if ATi manage this then I will get this card regardless of lack in performance. If they are heaters also then it will be best bang for buck I guess.

[Tweak486Dx2]

They dont seem impressive to me at all. I scored almost 16,000 with my single 8800GT. Scores in my sig. I really expected alot more from ATI this round.

The crossfire scores look nice but Nvidia's SLI scores look way better.

[deathman20]

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=703&p=0
Another review.

Truely I don't know what people where expecting. Its basically a die shrunk R600 core thats it with less memory bandwidth, less power, fixed AA, DX10.1, and some video features.

In all its going to act just like a R600 did. Nothing impressive, but was hoping for a little better scores. Those results are pretty sad where it mostly just beats the slightly slower clocked 2900XT, except for really 1 that sticks out is World in Conflict DX10 where it was considerably faster 50%+.

Later in the thread, they OC'd the 3870 core by 10.6% and memory by 19% and it did 12,961 in 3dmark06.

10.6% ~858 Core and 19% ~1340 Mem for the OC.

And my 2900XT could do from stock on stock cooler mind you...
18.2% ~875 Core and 18.1% ~975 Mem quiet easily

So the OC results from that doesn't look impressive at all, and that was just right out of the box, no modified fan speeds, no voltage boost, that was 5-10min of testing and it was stable there 6 months ago.

[deathman20]

Now this is where it gets sad

E6850 L720B478@4ghz 1.456v
Asus Maximus Formula
HD3870 Crossfire Stock
Team Xtreem 2x1gb PC2-6400 Cl3 @ 1000mhz 4-4-4-8 2.2v
Windows XP 32bit

Crossfire 17692
http://forums.vr-zone.com/showpost.php?p=4511275&postcount=139

Single Card 11545
http://forums.vr-zone.com/showpost.php?p=4511647&postcount=142


My results for a 8800GT on a 10+ month old install of vista and with normal boot programs running.

STOCK GPU speed, which really should be lower than that since I ordered a Vinilla one. CPU at 3.2Ghz
8800GT 650/1620/950 http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=3656805 11609 Points

And my highest..
12742 http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=3732686

E6400 @ 3.4Ghz
4Gigs G.Skill PC-6400 @ 425Mhz
8800GT 738/1836/999
169.04 Drivers

[Jacobman]

Hmm.....well only time can tell, ill make my final decision when i see from reviews off these forums.

[deathman20]

Jacob you should change your ATI logo out for the newer ones :) They look cooler.

[klear]

I'm confused, aren't all of these benchmarks @ 0xAA not "fair" because the 3870 is forced 4x AA? what am I missing

[deathman20]

I'm confused, aren't all of these benchmarks @ 0xAA not "fair" because the 3870 is forced 4x AA? what am I missing

3870 isn't forced to 4x AA. In the DX10.1 Standard, if a game uses that if not mistaken its forced to 4x AA. Since theres no games out currently that uses DX10.1 that isn't taken into account. Let alone the fact that DX10.1 isn't out yet so it wouldn't even take into account of that.

[ViperJohn]

I dont really care about a few frames. It makes absolutely no difference to me. I want them to have much cooler cards. I hate nvidia cards because they run so hot. Some games even push them to high 80c. I want my card to not go above 65c ever and if ATi manage this then I will get this card regardless of lack in performance. If they are heaters also then it will be best bang for buck I guess.

When it comes to running hot nothing compares to ATI 2900XT. It is a Thermo-Nuclear furnace.
If you are getting into the 80C's while gaming with any NV card you have case ventilation issues.

Viper

[Hardin]

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=703&p=0
Another review.

I think that is devastating for ATI. Those don't look like they are the results of premature drivers either. It looks like nvidia will keep it's crown.

[copernicus]

I think that is devastating for ATI. Those don't look like they are the results of premature drivers either. It looks like nvidia will keep it's crown.

well i'm just curious why they are running the 2900xt on cat 7.10 and the 3870 on cat 7.9 kinda don't make sense to use older drivers on a not even released card


- Gigabyte Radeon HD 2900XT (512MB) ATI Catalyst 7.10
- ASUS Radeon HD 3870 (512MB) ATI Catalyst 7.9:confused:

[Alacritan]

I think that is devastating for ATI. Those don't look like they are the results of premature drivers either. It looks like nvidia will keep it's crown.

Where did anyone get the impression that ATI intends for the 3870 to directly compete with the 8800GT? MSRP is $179-239, depending on how much RAM, cooling, overclocking, etc, is added above and beyond the reference design. There's an $70 price difference between the reference 3870 and 8800GT. They're not competeing as equals. At $179, the comparison should be made between the 3870 and 8600GTS, not the 8800GT.

Legion Hardware still has MSRP as $240 and is testing the cards as direct competitors, as if they're expecting them to be equals. That would be like comparing a 2900XT to the 8800GTX or Ultra. They're not the same price and they're not competing for the same market. I don't know why anyone is suprised or disappointed by the results.

[Neural Net]

Where did anyone get the impression that ATI intends for the 3870 to directly compete with the 8800GT? MSRP is $179-239, depending on how much RAM, cooling, overclocking, etc, is added above and beyond the reference design. There's an $70 price difference between the reference 3870 and 8800GT. They're not competeing as equals. At $179, the comparison should be made between the 3870 and 8600GTS, not the 8800GT.

Legion Hardware still has MSRP as $240 and is testing the cards as direct competitors, as if they're expecting them to be equals. That would be like comparing a 2900XT to the 8800GTX or Ultra. They're not the same price and they're not competing for the same market. I don't know why anyone is suprised or disappointed by the results.

Well said. It's a great card for midrange performance, and certainly superior to its nVidia rival, the 8600. While some of us are disappointed, it isn't really an issue of price or performance, but rather its designated model number. Supposedly being a next generation 3800 series, going by name alone, one might have expected that it would easily outperform the 2900XT, not by huge margins but significantly nonetheless. The naming scheme only leaves room for a 3900 series. It seems as though ATi hasn't given itself much headroom.

[deathman20]

Where did anyone get the impression that ATI intends for the 3870 to directly compete with the 8800GT? MSRP is $179-239, depending on how much RAM, cooling, overclocking, etc, is added above and beyond the reference design. There's an $70 price difference between the reference 3870 and 8800GT. They're not competeing as equals. At $179, the comparison should be made between the 3870 and 8600GTS, not the 8800GT.

Legion Hardware still has MSRP as $240 and is testing the cards as direct competitors, as if they're expecting them to be equals. That would be like comparing a 2900XT to the 8800GTX or Ultra. They're not the same price and they're not competing for the same market. I don't know why anyone is suprised or disappointed by the results.

The price you listed is for both the 3850's and 3870's. Not one or the other so truely there is only a $30 MSRP difference between the 3870 and the 8800GT base model. In other words yes the cards are withing the same ballpark range of prices. I'm not talking about specials ore jacked up prices but default MSRP's since we can't go off what the actually retail prices for the cards will be til tomorrow.

Base model price for the 8600GT is roughly $150. So while yes it fits between the 2 the 3850/3870's is not a direct competitor to the 8600GT's its the 8800 series.

[Neural Net]

The price you listed is for both the 3850's and 3870's. Not one or the other so truely there is only a $30 MSRP difference between the 3870 and the 8800GT base model. In other words yes the cards are withing the same ballpark range of prices. I'm not talking about specials ore jacked up prices but default MSRP's since we can't go off what the actually retail prices for the cards will be til tomorrow.

Base model price for the 8600GT is roughly $150. So while yes it fits between the 2 the 3850/3870's is not a direct competitor to the 8600GT's its the 8800 series.

Wow deathman you've really gone anti-ATi :p :D

[deathman20]

Wow deathman you've really gone anti-ATi :p :D

Nope just stating a fact. Like I said in another thread or this one forgot what it was, I'd switch back to ATI in a heartbeat as long as it was even in performance. Just disappointed that they could of done so much more yet haven't. Hoping so much for driver performance increases but nothing :( What you see in current drivers is probably as much the card will be giving out overall sadly, no matter if the drivers are this coming release or 6 months down the road :(.

Can't read these prices here but links to pre-orders on cards.
http://www.buy.com/prod/HD_3850_PCIE_256MB_GDDR3_HDMI_CTLRDVI_DUAL_MONITOR _SUPPORT/q/loc/273/206274155.html
http://www.buy.com/prod/HD_3870_PCIE_512MB_GDDR4_HDMI_CTLRDVI_DUAL_MONITOR _SUPPORT/q/loc/273/206274156.html

[Neural Net]

Nope just stating a fact. Like I said in another thread or this one forgot what it was, I'd switch back to ATI in a heartbeat as long as it was even in performance. Just disappointed that they could of done so much more yet haven't. Hoping so much for driver performance increases but nothing :( What you see in current drivers is probably as much the card will be giving out overall sadly, no matter if the drivers are this coming release or 6 months down the road :(.

Can't read these prices here but links to pre-orders on cards.
http://www.buy.com/prod/HD_3850_PCIE_256MB_GDDR3_HDMI_CTLRDVI_DUAL_MONITOR _SUPPORT/q/loc/273/206274155.html
http://www.buy.com/prod/HD_3870_PCIE_512MB_GDDR4_HDMI_CTLRDVI_DUAL_MONITOR _SUPPORT/q/loc/273/206274156.html

Interesting. I'll reserve judgement because graphics cards over here aren't inline with US pricing. When they come out here they might or might not be a bargain. :)

[deathman20]

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1222/1/page_1_introduction/index.html

More encouraging results at least compared to other sites. Manages to beat the GT in a few tests.

Would be nice if they mentioned what 8800GT they where using though, stock, OCed version or what not, as well as what drivers.

[Alacritan]

The price you listed is for both the 3850's and 3870's. Not one or the other so truely there is only a $30 MSRP difference between the 3870 and the 8800GT base model. In other words yes the cards are withing the same ballpark range of prices. I'm not talking about specials ore jacked up prices but default MSRP's since we can't go off what the actually retail prices for the cards will be til tomorrow.

Base model price for the 8600GT is roughly $150. So while yes it fits between the 2 the 3850/3870's is not a direct competitor to the 8600GT's its the 8800 series.

No, the MSRP for the 3580 is $149. The MSRP for the 3870 was $199-249 depending upon options and then it was revised downward to $179-239.

Even before the change, there was a $50 difference in price between the 3870 and 8800GT. They're not in the same ballpark.

[deathman20]

No, the MSRP for the 3580 is $149. The MSRP for the 3870 was $199-249 depending upon options and then it was revised downward to $179-239.

Even before the change, there was a $50 difference in price between the 3870 and 8800GT. They're not in the same ballpark.

Ok well im not seeing it show please show me a source that has those listed for the MSRP. Because all im finding is things like this date either the 12th or 13th http://digitimes.com/mobos/a20071112PD204.html. Its a general overview of the product line but thats all im finding.

As well the MSRP for the 8800GT is $270 from EVGA http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=512-P3-N801-A1&family=19. So I still don't see where the $50 price difference is. As well how is it not in the same ball park? They are competing with each other, otherwise why did ATI drop its price?

Not trying to start a fight, just trying to understand where your coming from on this. If they are in the same price range which IMO they are. If somethings is over $50-75 price difference yes I could see it in another price range, and truely that should be another performance bracket, but these 2 cards or 4-5 depending on models, are fighting it out.

[Brolloks]

The MSRP before the launch means nothing, history tells us that once any PC-Tech parts are launched the prices go 20-30% higher and only settles down to pre-launch MSRP after many weeks.

IMO getting a 8800GT is much better value for the GPU speed, shaders etc than the new 38 series ATI

[Oc1Kenube]

The MSRP before the launch means nothing, history tells us that once any PC-Tech parts are launched the prices go 20-30% higher and only settles down to pre-launch MSRP after many weeks.

IMO getting a 8800GT is much better value for the GPU speed, shaders etc than the new 38 series ATI

Not if you have a crossfire board like me. my mind is almost made up, if 2 of these come in cheaper than an 8800gtx and offer similar or better performance i will be all over them like like a fat kid is over a tub of ice cream

[deathman20]

Not if you have a crossfire board like me. my mind is almost made up, if 2 of these come in cheaper than an 8800gtx and offer similar or better performance i will be all over them like like a fat kid is over a tub of ice cream

Well if 2 8800GT's are basically at the 8800GTX price point these will be at the lower end or under them.

[Oc1Kenube]

Well if 2 8800GT's are basically at the 8800GTX price point these will be at the lower end or under them.

Then call me a fat kid and give me ice cream

[deathman20]

Then call me a fat kid and give me ice cream

Hehehe.

Well 2x 2900XT's beat a 8800GTX so these should as well. Its just that ATI has to gave crossfire enabled in games thats all and you should be rolling :)

[Kuroimaho]

The results are a bit disappointing, well there is the GT so all is right with the world.

[Hardin]

Where did anyone get the impression that ATI intends for the 3870 to directly compete with the 8800GT? MSRP is $179-239, depending on how much RAM, cooling, overclocking, etc, is added above and beyond the reference design. There's an $70 price difference between the reference 3870 and 8800GT. They're not competeing as equals. At $179, the comparison should be made between the 3870 and 8600GTS, not the 8800GT.

Legion Hardware still has MSRP as $240 and is testing the cards as direct competitors, as if they're expecting them to be equals. That would be like comparing a 2900XT to the 8800GTX or Ultra. They're not the same price and they're not competing for the same market. I don't know why anyone is suprised or disappointed by the results.
Well the benchmarks clearly show that it isn't a direct competitor but everything that I have seen has shown that it was supposed to be. I would rather have the GT even if it is $50 more. I think that is a $50 well spent.

[Hazaro]

Well the benchmarks clearly show that it isn't a direct competitor but everything that I have seen has shown that it was supposed to be.

It all will come out to the price of both cards and availability.

We'll find out a few days after launch.

[brakezone]

alot more reviews up now

http://vr-zone.com/articles/AMD_Radeon_HD3850_and_HD3870_-_AMD%27s_salvation%3F/5392-1.html
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1222/asus_radeon_hd_3870_512mb_g_ddr4/index.html

When do you guys think this thing will start appearing for sale?

[Neural Net]

alot more reviews up now

http://vr-zone.com/articles/AMD_Radeon_HD3850_and_HD3870_-_AMD%27s_salvation%3F/5392-1.html
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1222/asus_radeon_hd_3870_512mb_g_ddr4/index.html

When do you guys think this thing will start appearing for sale?

Oh. My. God. The VR-Zone review - the 8800GT is kicking some serious ass! It pulls way ahead of the GTX in UT3 and is almost level pegging in Crysis. The fps seems pretty high as well especially for UT3). Hmmm.

Off topic: Is the Asus P5N-E Plus SLi a good mobo? :p

[brakezone]

Oh. My. God. The VR-Zone review - the 8800GT is kicking some serious ass! It pulls way ahead of the GTX in UT3 and is almost level pegging in Crysis. The fps seems pretty high as well especially for UT3). Hmmm.

Off topic: Is the Asus P5N-E Plus SLi a good mobo? :p

I don't have the plus, but I would say the one that I have is okay but not great. The SLI performance was pretty good for the price; however, what really annoys me is the duel monitor issues. Originally, I would run duel monitors with a mx4000 card. At one point nvidia stopped supporting the legacy cards with the same driver and I couldn't run SLI with an mx4000 as a second monitor. Also, under linux you can't have SLI enabled and run a 2nd monitor. This upset me and is the reason why I'm probably going stick with a single 3850 or 3870. I hardly even care which one I get, i'll just get whatever is best and under 200$.

[Brando]

You know what...screw this. I've barely started bioshock which runs great on my x1900xt. I'm going to spend the cash I have left right now on an amp for my new headphones and enjoy bioshock. By the time I'm done with that(and maybe HL2) it'll be tax time again and maybe one of these companies will have a card out that can actually run crysis well for me to buy. It's just not time yet.

[Jacobman]

^ If it aint broke dont fix it, if your happy now then wait. No need to upgrade just cause its there.

[deathman20]

^ If it aint broke dont fix it, if your happy now then wait. No need to upgrade just cause its there.

Well you could :) Oh wait thats the evil side of me talking.

[Brando]

25k on a single card will suffice. Maybe.

[Brolloks]

Not if you have a crossfire board like me. my mind is almost made up, if 2 of these come in cheaper than an 8800gtx and offer similar or better performance i will be all over them like like a fat kid is over a tub of ice cream


Try 2 x 8800 GT's in SLI and see how it compares to those ATI's...I bet you the crossfire will come short...

[Oc1Kenube]

Try 2 x 8800 GT's in SLI and see how it compares to those ATI's...I bet you the crossfire will come short...

Dont have an sli board, which means extra cost on the 2 gt's then an sli board that will oc the same as my p5w dh deluxe

[Neural Net]

$219 Radeon HD 3870 with 512MB of GDDR4... (http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/15/amd-launches-ati-radeon-hd-3800-series-for-budget-gamers/)

[jmorgan]

2 would look good on my x38, really wanna see some benches first though in x-fire

[glockjs]

has anybody actually seen any online stores selling these? i'm still not finding any officially for sale x.O

[Maglin]

I'm looking all over as well. Please post up if you find a site with them at least on their site.

[Hardin]

Anandtech has their review up. http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151
The 3850 walks all over the 7950GT.

[majinwar]

Try 2 x 8800 GT's in SLI and see how it compares to those ATI's...I bet you the crossfire will come short...

Good review of the cards as single, and the cards in CF / SLI, in slideshow format. Link (http://www.tgdaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=18&Itemid=41&slideshow=20071115)

[brakezone]

Saw them up on newegg, ordered the diamond 3870. I could wait awhile for the limited supply of 256mb 8800GT's that will be out for 200$; however, I don't feel like waiting and 512mb is necessary, as many say.

[klear]

2 would look good on my x38, really wanna see some benches first though in x-fire

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151&p=10

The anandtech review covers a lot of what is discussed in this thread, crossfire does fall short of SLI, but 2x3850's perform on par with the 8800 GTX... then again i guess so does an overclocked 8800 GT / 3870 ?


Edit: Tomshardware review up http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/15/amd_radeon_hd_3800/

[Hardin]

It's good that you posted the anandtech link again in case someone didn't see my post. It looks like toms has similar results.

[hUMANbEATbOX]

Anandtech has their review up. http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151
The 3850 walks all over the 7950GT.
Are you serious? the 7950GT???. How is that card even relevant? That's like saying it walks all over my x1950pro. NO KIDDING!

[Hardin]

Are you serious? the 7950GT???. How is that card even relevant? That's like saying it walks all over my x1950pro. NO KIDDING!

I'll just pretend I don't have a 7950gt that I need to replace then. :rolleyes:

edit: Here's the guru3d review. http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/472/1/

[Maglin]

Man just got home and Newegg is all sold out. And Tigerdirect is already price gouging and charging $259 + shipping. I'm not going to pay that much for this card. Guess I have to wait for them to come in stock again. I wonder if their is anywhere else that has them in stock.

[Mr.Guvernment]

If that pricing is in any way reflected in the UK, these are going to be very competitive. Do you know if the 3870 X2 requires a Xfire motherboard to run?

Yes you do need a compatible Xfire mobo to run XFire

[Oc1Kenube]

Anand was a great review, it's like this for me my 7900gs at mo still manages admirably 2 3870's in CF is going to rock my sox i dont need the virtual penis extension of the nvidia boards besides i reckon these will clock well too.

[Neural Net]

Yes you do need a compatible Xfire mobo to run XFire

Even if 2 GPUs take up just one PCI-E slot?

[Shell]

Even if 2 GPUs take up just one PCI-E slot? It's the same for The 7950GX2 as it is for the 3950XT or the X1950PRO Dual... you don't need an SLI or CrossFire capable mainboard to have one video card.

[phatty2x4]

I wanna see some 3870 x2 results. That's the card I'm waiting for.

[DumpALump]

Are you serious? the 7950GT???. How is that card even relevant? That's like saying it walks all over my x1950pro. NO KIDDING!

Well the idea is that anyone with a 7 series Nvidia or something like an x1900 should sell their card now and buy a 3850(the slower one, not the 3870) for $50 more for a lot more performance. Can probably still sell many of the 7 series cards for $110-130 on ebay. Depending which card you have of course.

[jmorgan]

newegg has them in stock for the moment
http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=5339197&postcount=183

[Neural Net]

It's the same for The 7950GX2 as it is for the 3950XT or the X1950PRO Dual... you don't need an SLI or CrossFire capable mainboard to have one video card.

Oh thanks! :D I thought that you needed a SLI motherboard for nVidia dual GPU cards but I wasn't sure if it was neccessary for ATi dual GPU cards, thanks for clearing things up.

[Hazaro]

Meant: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102713

I saw that, crazy cheap.

Also saw a DIAMOND HD3870 on NcixUS BACKORDER for $261 shipped w/ insurance.

Comes with Call of Juarez and Black Box. :santa:

http://www.ncixus.com/products/26983/3870PE4512SB/Diamond/

[deathman20]

That won't last long... Places have been selling out of them in hours. Then the prices get jacked up. Suprised newegg hasn't jacked there prices yet.

[Colton H]

How is it not doing that great I mean the 3870 has 320 stream processors according to this and higher core and memory clocks then the GT

3870 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102713
8800 GT http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143117

If thoughs are the right specs?

[deathman20]

And the same thing was with the 2900XT. You can't compare apples to apples with GPU's with clock speeds.

Its just like CPU's you can't compare it at the same speeds since well one is always faster than the other.

Similarities both have 16 ROP's, 256-bit bus. Differences shader clocks, texture units, and more things from there.

On paper yes you'd think the ATI card should do better since it has more steam processors. But the fact that it runs at the GPU's clock speed is where it sets itself back since the nVidia cards while it has less, its independently clocked, usually 2x faster than the GPU's speed to make up the difference. As well at least other nVidia cards like the GTS and GTX have more ROP's which really help with performace over higher clock speeds.

[Hardin]

Well the idea is that anyone with a 7 series Nvidia or something like an x1900 should sell their card now and buy a 3850(the slower one, not the 3870) for $50 more for a lot more performance. Can probably still sell many of the 7 series cards for $110-130 on ebay. Depending which card you have of course.

It's good to see people backing me up. I'm not sure what humanbeatbox's problem is.

[Maglin]

Dang it. Just got back home and they where in stock. As I was paying they sold out again. I really hope they are just controlling their selling and will be in stock again tomorrow. I wish you could pre-order with newegg.

[Neural Net]

Funny how the pricing translates over to Blighty:

First x3870 I found was £154

You can get an 8800GT for £152

Stupid, really. lol :)

[ghost_recon88]

This price gouging has gotten insane, its almost as bad as the Wii gouging :p Anyways, I've got the chance to grab an 8800 GT (not the SSC) model for $250, or I can wait until the HD 3870 get back in stock @ $220 + shipping. Is the 8800GT worth the extra $30?

[PhysX]

to some who want the extra 2-4% performance, im more of a cost to performance kinda guy so im going with the 3870 :)

[ghost_recon88]

Theres only a 2-4% performance difference? Are there any benchmarks yet with the 3870 against the 8800GT? Only ones I've seen are the 3850 against it.

[deathman20]

Theres only a 2-4% performance difference? Are there any benchmarks yet with the 3870 against the 8800GT? Only ones I've seen are the 3850 against it.

It can be as little as that or as much as a 20% difference. I've only seen 3870 benchmarks, unless I totally miss read them and mistaken the 5 for a 7.

[majinwar]

ATI released a catalyst hotfix for Crysis. Would be interesting to see if it had any effect on FPS, especially the whole DirectX 10: Performance improvements. LINK (http://support.ati.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=30533)

737-30533: Crysis: Radeon™ series: Graphic corruption occurs during gameplay

The information in this article applies to the following configuration(s):

* Crysis
* Radeon™ HD3870 series
* Radeon™ HD3850 series
* Radeon™ HD2900 series
* Radeon™ HD2600 series
* Radeon™ HD2400 series
* Radeon™ X1950 series
* Radeon™ X1900 series
* Radeon™ X1800 series
* Radeon™ X1650 series
* Radeon™ X1600 series
* Radeon™ X1550 series
* Radeon™ X1300 series
* Radeon™ X1050 series
* Radeon™ X850 series
* Radeon™ X800 series
* Windows Vista 32-bit Edition
* Windows Vista 64-bit Edition
* Windows XP Professional
* Windows XP Home Edition
* Windows XP Media Center Edition
* Windows XP Professional x64 Edition

Symptoms:
Graphic corruption occurs during gameplay

Solution:
Please download and install the following hotfix file to address this issue.

Windows Vista Hotfix

Windows XP Hotfix



Crysis hotfix includes the following

*
DirectX 10: Fixes texture flickering in bushes, clouds, trees
*
DirectX 10: Performance improvements
*
DirectX 9: Fixes Anti-Aliasing corruption seen on the ATI Radeon 2900 Series
*
DirectX 9: Anti-Aliasing performance enhancements
*
DirectX 9: Crossfire performance improvements
*
DirectX 9: Fixes random graphics corruption during game play

[Vento1]

Funny how the pricing translates over to Blighty:

First x3870 I found was £154

You can get an 8800GT for £152

Stupid, really. lol :)


Very true but if you visit Komplett 3870 price (http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.aspx?sku=342330) and 3850 price (http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.aspx?sku=342319)
VAT is included just shipping to add.

[Neural Net]

Very true but if you visit Komplett 3870 price (http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.aspx?sku=342330) and 3850 price (http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.aspx?sku=342319)
VAT is included just shipping to add.

Not too bad, but it's still too high really, it really needs to be £120 inc VAT to be competitive. Nice find though. :) Amazing prices for both cards considering how the market was just a month ago.