Need suggestions on where to go from a heater core.

Long story short, I just bought a Thermaltake Armor and my heater core is too big to fit in the case (without cutting or radboxing it), so I'm trying to figure out if I should go to a single or double radiator.

A little background:

I have an Eheim 1048, 3/8" tubing, Dtek heater core, and a Swiftech MCW6000 CPU block.

I've always hated the idea of either introducing hot air into the inside of a case after it passes through a radiator or blowing hot internal air over the radiator on the way out of the case. My last case was an Antec with a separate 5 drive bay enclosure bolted to the top. I left the pump in the main case and the enclosure had my heater core, fan, and reservoir in it.

Now I've moved to a Thermaltake Armor and my heater core is too big for the case. All I'm cooling is my Q6600 (have an 8800GTX but it really isn't that loud to me). I'm trying to decide if I would be fine with just 1 x 120mm radiator or if I would need a 240mm one. My original plan was to mount the heater core in the front of the case and then make a duct that went from the back of the core to the 92 mm fan that is on the back of the case next to the power supply. That way the hot air would never be introduced into the case. I could still make a duct with a 240mm radiator, but it wouldn't be as easy.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Steve

You could get one of these:

http://www.crazypc.com/products/93424BK.html

It will allow you to attach your rad to the back of the case where the rear exhaust fan is.

Its meant for a 120 rad but can also use a 240.

You could get one of these:

http://www.crazypc.com/products/93424BK.html

It will allow you to attach your rad to the back of the case where the rear exhaust fan is.

Its meant for a 120 rad but can also use a 240.

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That's one of the tings I'm trying to avoid; I want to try to keep everything internal this time while isolating the heat put through the radiator/introduced into the system.

Without either attaching it to the back or top there is no other way to not have the heat from the rad come into the case. It would need to be in the front.

Is that a removable drive bay in the front? If not then you really dont have many options without modding the case, i.e cutting the top or bottom.

Edit: It might be possible to attach a 120 rad to the rear case fan on the inside, so the fan pulls case air through it and exhausts out the back. Cant really tell from the pictures if that will work or not.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about dumping the hot air into the case. At least not a case as big as the TT armor (I just bought one too btw).

to help keep the air inside a bit cooler, you want to go with a negative case pressure. In other words, exuast more air via fans, than you are pushing into the case via fans.

This creates a slight vacum in the case and draws in outside air through the various vents, which mixes with the exaust from your radiator. If you are moving enough air, you really won't notice the "hot" air being dumped into yor case at all.

the TT armor come with two 90mm fans topside, and top rear. Add in the 120mm rear exast, plus exaust from your PSU and get a rought idea of what your CFM going out of the case is. Compare that to your intake fans. Adjust your exaust fans as necessary to maintain a higher CFM out of the case than into the case.

Alternately, you could add a couple more fans to the case to blow in some extra outside air, but that also creates more noise and uses real estate in the case.

CGR said:

Without either attaching it to the back or top there is no other way to not have the heat from the rad come into the case. It would need to be in the front.

Is that a removable drive bay in the front? If not then you really dont have many options without modding the case, i.e cutting the top or bottom.

Edit: It might be possible to attach a 120 rad to the rear case fan on the inside, so the fan pulls case air through it and exhausts out the back. Cant really tell from the pictures if that will work or not.

Click to expand...

Yes, it is a removable bay. I've seen some people on here who have put a dual or even triple rad in the front of the case and just stood it straight up.

Jas said:

Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about dumping the hot air into the case. At least not a case as big as the TT armor (I just bought one too btw).

to help keep the air inside a bit cooler, you want to go with a negative case pressure. In other words, exuast more air via fans, than you are pushing into the case via fans.

This creates a slight vacum in the case and draws in outside air through the various vents, which mixes with the exaust from your radiator. If you are moving enough air, you really won't notice the "hot" air being dumped into yor case at all.

the TT armor come with two 90mm fans topside, and top rear. Add in the 120mm rear exast, plus exaust from your PSU and get a rought idea of what your CFM going out of the case is. Compare that to your intake fans. Adjust your exaust fans as necessary to maintain a higher CFM out of the case than into the case.

Alternately, you could add a couple more fans to the case to blow in some extra outside air, but that also creates more noise and uses real estate in the case.

Click to expand...

Picture below is stolen from Newegg, but it is an illustration of my plan if I were to go with 1 x 120mm radiator:



I do have the 120 installed in the rear and the 92 on the top and the 92 in the rear.

If what you are saying is true, then I wouldn't have to worry about that then. The real question then is whether or not 1 x 120mm radiator can perform the same as the heater core that I was using or if I need to go with a larger one like the Black Ice Extreme II or Pro II.

Do you have a picture of the core?

CGR said:

Do you have a picture of the core?

Click to expand...

It is one of these with a shroud on it:

http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=103

SHStormont said:

It is one of these with a shroud on it:

http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=103

Click to expand...

I mean your current heater core.

Also if you do get a dtek, get one from the clearance area. Save some money. Usually they just have blemishes on them.

Edit: Wait a min.. You currently have a dtek 120 core? That should easily fit in your case.

For a CPU and a GPU you will want a 120.2 sized rad at least.

The TT armor will fit a 120.3 easily, without any moddifcation (not much else is going in the drive bays though).

With a larger Rad, I would mount it at the bottom front.

Here's a suggestion, this is what I am doing wiht my TT Armor,

You could mount a 120.2 sized rad in the bottom front, and then a second 120.1 sized rad on the 120mm rear exaust mount. Both set as INTAKES, the Airflow should colide a bit around the MOBO and then exaust out the top, and should give you fairly decent air flow across the mobo. You will also acheive a posotive case pressure which will help keep dust out. This is counter to my previous suggestion (posotive pressure vs negative), but IMO is possibly the best setup without modding the case or taking up all the real estate in the front drive bays.

You get nearly the same cooling power as a 120.3 rad (very slightly less because you are increasing the pressure drop with the extra tube length), leaves enough drive bays open to still have lots of options open, no modding needed, and creates massive airflow across the mobo.

One last thing to add.

Don't worry about the "hot air" going into the case. In small cases, with no ventilation, and itty bitty fans, yeah, it can be a problem, but this case is MASSIVE, let me repeat, MASSIVE. And you aren't using whimpy little fans either.

You are putting the heat into the air over a VERY large area, it's not concentrated, and it will be circulating quickly. It's not going to cause you any problems. The only thing I would even consider worrying about is if you have a REALLY high FSB OC, and your NB cooler sucks. If that's the case, you might consider WCing the NB too.

CGR said:

I mean your current heater core.

Also if you do get a dtek, get one from the clearance area. Save some money. Usually they just have blemishes on them.

Edit: Wait a min.. You currently have a dtek 120 core? That should easily fit in your case.

Click to expand...

That is correct, I already have the Dtek core but it doesn't fit in the Armor. (Just a bit too wide to fit in the 5 1/4" bays).

Since I'm just doing the CPU (and don't have any plans to drop $100 on a 8800GTX cooler), then I should be fine with just a single 120 radiator, like the Black Ice Pro, right? Or would I need something like the Pro II to get the same performance that I was from the Dtek core?

SHStormont said:

That is correct, I already have the Dtek core but it doesn't fit in the Armor. (Just a bit too wide to fit in the 5 1/4" bays).

Since I'm just doing the CPU (and don't have any plans to drop $100 on a 8800GTX cooler), then I should be fine with just a single 120 radiator, like the Black Ice Pro, right? Or would I need something like the Pro II to get the same performance that I was from the Dtek core?

Click to expand...

Even if you are just doing the CPU right now, spend the extra 5-10 bucks and get a 120.2 rad. That way you are somewhat future proofed if you decide to cool the GPU too.

SHStormont said:

That is correct, I already have the Dtek core but it doesn't fit in the Armor. (Just a bit too wide to fit in the 5 1/4" bays).

Since I'm just doing the CPU (and don't have any plans to drop $100 on a 8800GTX cooler), then I should be fine with just a single 120 radiator, like the Black Ice Pro, right? Or would I need something like the Pro II to get the same performance that I was from the Dtek core?

Click to expand...

Ehhh, im pretty sure the BI pro rads are a tad wider than the d-tek pro

BI II dual 120 is 5.9in wide
D-tek Pro 120 is 5.5in wide.

CGR said:

Ehhh, im pretty sure the BI pro rads are a tad wider than the d-tek pro

BI II dual 120 is 5.9in wide
D-tek Pro 120 is 5.5in wide.

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Looks like the X-FLow Black Ice Pro II would be the way to go at "11.49 x 5.0 x 0.98 inch" or the Black Ice Xtreme II Radiator or the Black Ice X-Flow Xtreme II both at "10.75 x 5.25 x 1.77 inch".

With my Eheim 1048, I'd be better off not getting the X-Flow models since they are optimized for high flow pumps which the 1048 isn't correct?

Steve

I would go with the BIP (pro) with your pump.

Just a suggestion, your loop lives and dies with your pump. You might consider upgrading it if you have the cash.

Jas said:

I would go with the BIP (pro) with your pump.

Just a suggestion, your loop lives and dies with your pump. You might consider upgrading it if you have the cash.

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Why? I've always had good temps and performance from it.

The Swiftech MCR rads have a lower pressure drop than than the Black Ice rads and they perform better. You really need to go with a dual rad and not a single. A single rad isn't going to cut it with a quad core unless you really throw some serious CFMs through it.

For just a cpu, the 1048 should be OK, but it doesn't have much head pressure. Using Martin's flow rate calculator (from XS), you should be able to get roughly 1.25gpm if you go with an MCR220. As long as you don't drop below 1 gpm, you should be fine.

You are however going to get lousy temps with the MCW6000 on a quad core as it really isn't designed for it. Niksub1 has done some testing to show this (too lazy to dig it up at the moment).

You might want to look at getting an Apogee, excelent block for Multi cores.

Voigts said:

The Swiftech MCR rads have a lower pressure drop than than the Black Ice rads and they perform better.

Click to expand...

They look ALOT like a HC just with strait rubes rather than the zig zag tubes. I'll have to buy one and try it out.

Jas said:

You might want to look at getting an Apogee, excelent block for Multi cores.

Click to expand...

I had a bad corrosion experience with an older Swiftech MCW5000; if I went with the Apogee I think I'd definitely have to invest in the replacement copper top. My one problem now is that I have a MCW6000 with the flat base which supposedly won't work on a LGA775 CPU. According to Swiftech, you need the stepped MCW6000 for 775 chips. I looked at it, and it looks like the flat base should fit with no problem though.

voigts said:

The Swiftech MCR rads have a lower pressure drop than than the Black Ice rads and they perform better. You really need to go with a dual rad and not a single. A single rad isn't going to cut it with a quad core unless you really throw some serious CFMs through it.

For just a cpu, the 1048 should be OK, but it doesn't have much head pressure. Using Martin's flow rate calculator (from XS), you should be able to get roughly 1.25gpm if you go with an MCR220. As long as you don't drop below 1 gpm, you should be fine.

Click to expand...

Assuming 4' of 3/8" tubing it looks like I'd get 1.21 gpm with my current pump, block, and the MCR220.

I planned on buying some new tubing, so maybe I'll upgrade to 7/16" tubing, since that at least gave a slight bump to 1.27.