View Full Version : Why do you buy a taulatin celeron?
I was thinking of buying a Celeron 1A or 1.1A and oc it with
a fine mobo. But my friends keep telling me taulatin is a "dead born baby" and it has no future. They advice me to buy
a duron(1000) so that it can be upgraded to a XP later.
For upgradablity is taulatin that bad? If I oc that celeron
to 1500(140-150 fsb) will there be a better choise for me in
the future?
And if I go with amd do you think that the present amd motherboards will it support .13 cpu's?
Your friends have a good argument. Tualatin ready motherboards will not run P4 chips, so yes it's a dead upgrade. But to buy Intel over AMD is partly convenience and preference.
ol' man
12-26-01, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by nucro
I was thinking of buying a Celeron 1A or 1.1A and oc it with
a fine mobo. But my friends keep telling me taulatin is a "dead born baby" and it has no future. They advice me to buy
a duron(1000) so that it can be upgraded to a XP later.
For upgradablity is taulatin that bad? If I oc that celeron
to 1500(140-150 fsb) will there be a better choise for me in
the future?
And if I go with amd do you think that the present amd motherboards will it support .13 cpu's?
Tell your freinds a 1500MHz/150FSB tualatin would smoke a duron. Also it depends on what you got as a PSU and available ram laying around. Only way I would go AMD is if their chip suddenly were on a .13u process otherwise I like my .13u chip. AMD will not be on a .13u process for quite awhile. Everyone thinks AMD chips are thebest simply because 3dmark gives the XP a good score but it is starting to seem that indeed the 3dmark benchie its self is a load of BS. If you go by quake FPS you will find that at a 150+FSB those scores will probably go up considerably and most likely rival a similar clocked XP. I know the 1266MHz/512kcache tualatin pretty much beats the XP in alot of apps when run on a 160+fsb. Even the 256k cache version of the tualatin keeps up very well with the XP. The 256k cache celeron on a 150+MHz bus should suffice very well and you don't need your own nuclear powerplant to run it.
I buy intel cause I know it works. I have tried other mobo's and strayed from what I know works to have problems. If I were to go complely AMD and have problems I would be out big. I dislike change anymore.
AMD still to me needs to make some changes before I go with them. i already have problems running a 350w PSU in my apartment. I can imagine what a 400w trying to power a 100w XP would be like. It would not go. I tried an UPS with my psu and it did not help. Must be a cheapo UPS. Anyway I have my reasons to like Intel still.
Not everyone is a hardcore gamer and don't mind if the noise levels are deafening coming from the box. A properly FSB'd intel chip will perform very well with high frame rate games. If you look at most AMD users they have their FSB's around 150MHz usually anyway if they can help it.
I have thought about going AMD too many times but at the moment I said nay!
I can't wait to get my old 1.2GHz PIII going again and show some here what indeed these chips can do on a 160MHz+ fsb. They ar smoka's!
Originally posted by ol' man
Tell your freinds a 1500MHz/150FSB tualatin would smoke a duron. Also it depends on what you got as a PSU and available ram laying around. Only way I would go AMD is if their chip suddenly were on a .13u process otherwise I like my .13u chip. AMD will not be on a .13u process for quite awhile. Everyone thinks AMD chips are thebest simply because 3dmark gives the XP a good score but it is starting to seem that indeed the 3dmark benchie its self is a load of BS. If you go by quake FPS you will find that at a 150+FSB those scores will probably go up considerably and most likely rival a similar clocked XP. I know the 1266MHz/512kcache tualatin pretty much beats the XP in alot of apps when run on a 160+fsb. Even the 256k cache version of the tualatin keeps up very well with the XP. The 256k cache celeron on a 150+MHz bus should suffice very well and you don't need your own nuclear powerplant to run it.
I buy intel cause I know it works. I have tried other mobo's and strayed from what I know works to have problems. If I were to go complely AMD and have problems I would be out big. I dislike change anymore.
AMD still to me needs to make some changes before I go with them. i already have problems running a 350w PSU in my apartment. I can imagine what a 400w trying to power a 100w XP would be like. It would not go. I tried an UPS with my psu and it did not help. Must be a cheapo UPS. Anyway I have my reasons to like Intel still.
Not everyone is a hardcore gamer and don't mind if the noise levels are deafening coming from the box. A properly FSB'd intel chip will perform very well with high frame rate games. If you look at most AMD users they have their FSB's around 150MHz usually anyway if they can help it.
I have thought about going AMD too many times but at the moment I said nay!
I can't wait to get my old 1.2GHz PIII going again and show some here what indeed these chips can do on a 160MHz+ fsb. They ar smoka's!
Actually according to Tom's Hardware the 1.2 Durons stock are beating the P4 which is kind of a disapointment towards me and how I look at Intel sometimes. Although I still have in my head by summer to buy a P3 Tualatin and an Abit Tualatin Mobo.
A Tualatin, whether it be P3 or Celeron (basically the same thing) will also beat up to about a 1.7 gig P4....And overclocked will definatly put most P4's to shame....
That is why i'm gonna stick with the P6 core for as long as I can....
Wait till the .13m process AMD chips roll out. If they decrease heat by a noticable amount, I may steer towards AMD. Otherwise, stick with the Tualatin Cellys. In my opinion, probably the best Intel chips. Although I relate them to coppermine rejects, like others have. But hey, Cellyds are the poor mans super chip.
ol' man
12-26-01, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by Bonka
Wait till the .13m process AMD chips roll out. If they decrease heat by a noticable amount, I may steer towards AMD. Otherwise, stick with the Tualatin Cellys. In my opinion, probably the best Intel chips. Although I relate them to coppermine rejects, like others have. But hey, Cellyds are the poor mans super chip.
Yeah and how long are we going to be waiting????????????
At this point, a looonng while. To tell you the truth, I love the Tualatin Cellys. I probably won't even switch over to AMD, unless I become wealthy. I'll definitely consider the notion of converting though :D Actually, I've grown up with a Celeron 333, and never looked back.
muddocktor
12-27-01, 09:06 AM
The 1.2 Celeron/P3 tualatin procs are definitely a viable upgrade path. They are basically the same proc except that the 1.2 Celeron is specced for a 100 fsb, instead of a 133 fsb, which makes for easier overclocking. I have been doing a little experimenting with my P3 1.26S proc on the GA-60XET board yesterday, before I go watercooling it and it is an overclocker's dream. I presently have it running @ 1500 mhz(157 fsb) at the default vcore on a 250 watt psu. This is also with just using the stock hsf that came with the proc and it hasn't even broken past 30° C, even when running the Folding@Home client in the background. I think that my main limiting factor once I get the pelt and watercooling on this rig will be to find ram that is fast enough. Plus, I'm not worried about possible issues developing due to Via chipsets with this board as it uses the B stepping i815 chipset.
ol' man
12-27-01, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by muddocktor
The 1.2 Celeron/P3 tualatin procs are definitely a viable upgrade path. They are basically the same proc except that the 1.2 Celeron is specced for a 100 fsb, instead of a 133 fsb, which makes for easier overclocking. I have been doing a little experimenting with my P3 1.26S proc on the GA-60XET board yesterday, before I go watercooling it and it is an overclocker's dream. I presently have it running @ 1500 mhz(157 fsb) at the default vcore on a 250 watt psu. This is also with just using the stock hsf that came with the proc and it hasn't even broken past 30° C, even when running the Folding@Home client in the background. I think that my main limiting factor once I get the pelt and watercooling on this rig will be to find ram that is fast enough. Plus, I'm not worried about possible issues developing due to Via chipsets with this board as it uses the B stepping i815 chipset.
Hmmm, maybe that 250w will keep up but I doubt it once you hit 1600MHz +.
Originally posted by ol' man
Hmmm, maybe that 250w will keep up but I doubt it once you hit 1600MHz +.
The 250 watt probably won't if he has multiple HDD and a burner or so like me it'll probably only do at default.
funnyperson1
12-27-01, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by muddocktor
The 1.2 Celeron/P3 tualatin procs are definitely a viable upgrade path. They are basically the same proc except that the 1.2 Celeron is specced for a 100 fsb, instead of a 133 fsb, which makes for easier overclocking. I have been doing a little experimenting with my P3 1.26S proc on the GA-60XET board yesterday, before I go watercooling it and it is an overclocker's dream. I presently have it running @ 1500 mhz(157 fsb) at the default vcore on a 250 watt psu. This is also with just using the stock hsf that came with the proc and it hasn't even broken past 30° C, even when running the Folding@Home client in the background. I think that my main limiting factor once I get the pelt and watercooling on this rig will be to find ram that is fast enough. Plus, I'm not worried about possible issues developing due to Via chipsets with this board as it uses the B stepping i815 chipset.
so tell us man, which is faster the Athlon in your sig or the PIII-S?
ol' man
12-27-01, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by funnyperson1
so tell us man, which is faster the Athlon in your sig or the PIII-S?
Are you serious?????? You have not seen the benchies for the 512K cache tualtins? They are just as fast and alot of times faster than the tbirds. Give the PIII-s chip some high FSB's and you would have a smoker. The PIII .13u 256k cache PIII's IPC is not that far behind the 512k cache chip and the celery .13u's IPC is a little behind the 256 PIII .13u. This is why on a high FSB 160+ the .13u celery should keep up just fine with a XP. You may be a small percentage slower but in the end the celery will use half the juice and need half the cooling! I have seen many FPU test that always put the .13u tualatin core way ahead of the XP. It was not just one! Most put the .13u tualatin core about equal with the XP.
Originally posted by ol' man
Are you serious?????? You have not seen the benchies for the 512K cache tualtins? They are just as fast and alot of times faster than the tbirds. Give the PIII-s chip some high FSB's and you would have a smoker. The PIII .13u 256k cache PIII's IPC is not that far behind the 512k cache chip and the celery .13u's IPC is a little behind the 256 PIII .13u. This is why on a high FSB 160+ the .13u celery should keep up just fine with a XP. You may be a small percentage slower but in the end the celery will use half the juice and need half the cooling! I have seen many FPU test that always put the .13u tualatin core way ahead of the XP. It was not just one! Most put the .13u tualatin core about equal with the XP.
Can ya show us some benchmarks how your rig currently stands ?
ol' man
12-27-01, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by ol' man
Are you serious?????? You have not seen the benchies for the 512K cache tualtins? They are just as fast and alot of times faster than the tbirds. Give the PIII-s chip some high FSB's and you would have a smoker. The PIII .13u 256k cache PIII's IPC is not that far behind the 512k cache chip and the celery .13u's IPC is a little behind the 256 PIII .13u. This is why on a high FSB 160+ the .13u celery should keep up just fine with a XP. You may be a small percentage slower but in the end the celery will use half the juice and need half the cooling! I have seen many FPU test that always put the .13u tualatin core way ahead of the XP. It was not just one! Most put the .13u tualatin core about equal with the XP.
Check these benchies!
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q3/010919/tualatin512-07.html
A 1.2GHz .13u PIII will slightly beat a 1.2GHz tbird in quake benchies. This is why I have a hard time believing that a xp will beat a celery by much at the same clock. That tells me that the benchies someone did awhile ago here at OC.com were BS possibly! They should have done the tests with SDRAM not ddr to make the test fair. Instead they put the blame on the celery chip itself. Now think of how a 150MHz bus .13u celery @ 1500MHz would fair against a 1500MHz tbird on the same bus. Throwing one chip into a mobo with DDR and another into a mobo with sdram is not a fair comparison. I like how they said that the two setups for the XP vs. .13u celery were the same! BS they weren't.
The .13u celery and the PIII tualatin are not that dissimilar. If there is a problem it is not with the chip it may be with the ram. We all know higher fsb's boost quake benchies considerably. That is why a 160MHz fsb celery should fair well against any AMD juice hog. DDR ram helps the XP but to put the blame for bad quake benchies on the chip is BS! In alot of other apps clock for clock the celery is very equal with the XP even when the XP is running DDR.
Trust me....
You're gonna need a bigger PSU once the system begins to approach it's limits....
muddocktor
12-27-01, 07:44 PM
I know I need more juice than a 250 watt psu, I'm starting to see the 12 volt line starting to sag w/ 1 hard drive and cdrom only. I was just testing the board/proc/ram out before I go ahead and start sealing the socket, applying neoprene, dielectric grease, etc to prepare for the pelt/watercool setup. I do think that I might run into a problem finding ram fast enough to run the high fsb speeds at Cas2. Is there any way to run the ram asynchronously with the fsb on this board, Flu!d?
BTW, I went to Intel's site & d/l'd the update for P3 procs and they are showing a couple of steppings for a P3 1.33/256k Tualie. That might be a chip to run in the ST6 boards so your fsb isn't so high that the pci/agp busses are too far out of spec. They didn't have a s-spec listing for a P3 1.4 Tualie but did show that speed listed in the dual proc compatibity charts.
I know you can set a FSB of 133 mhz and a ram speed of 100 mhz using the jumpers....Don't know of any other settings though....
ol' man
12-27-01, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by Flu!d
I know you can set a FSB of 133 mhz and a ram speed of 100 mhz using the jumpers....Don't know of any other settings though....
On the ST6 it will allow you to run the ram at a 2/3 ratio of the FSB same as the GA-60XET it sounds. This option on the ST6 is in the bios though:D No jumpers:D I still like the 1/5 and 1/6 dividers though. I am going to get this board very soon so it had better not dissapoint me or it will be known internet wide guarenteed. No BS about it! I am getting it so I can run my fsb at 160+Mhz and have the pci in spec.
What's your point ol'man?! Am I supposed to feel 'threatend' by the fact that you are gonna get an XET soon? Why woulden't the mobo hit 1.6 gig if the st-6 did? Remember, it all depends on the chip as well....And didn't you stuff your original P3 tualatin? You can't use a different chip as a benchmark to your st-6....
I mean this in the lightest possible manner....No offence intended....:)
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