Geez, PS2 STILL outsold PS3 at Christmas 360 and Wii still cleaned their clock

[FudgeNuggets]

Sony alone:
PSP Sales: 1.4 Million
PS2 Sales: 1.3 Million
PS3 Sales: 1.3 Million

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS71161+07-Jan-2008+RNS20080107

360 Sales:
4.3 Million. More than all 3 Sony machines COMBINED (Nov-Dec)
http://news.briefing.com/GeneralContent/Investor/Active/ArticlePopup/ArticlePopup.aspx?ArticleId=NS20080104083059Headli neHits

Wii Sales: Don't have an exact number yet but expect 2-3 million
DS: No hard numbers yet but expect 2-3 million

I'm surprised the PS3 is still so far behind, I thought the price drops would make it fly off the shelves. Maybe it's too little too late or maybe it is because of the lack of games.

Just think how many Wii's COULD'VE sold had they been aailable. Nintendo actually helped Microsoft break sales records.

[Neural Net]

Excellent news. Sorry, but I don't like the way Sony do business. With all the rootkits, bluray players that lock up, custom formats the interfere with the user experience (i.e. the DAPs that used a custom format, not mp3). I like their TVs, but they're pretty expensive. And Spiderman 3 was the worst Superhero film ever made.

Bite me :p

But yes Nintendo lost $1bn of sales according to estimates this Christmas. Not only that, they had a lot of trouble producing enough DS' too. Good sales for Microsoft, lets just hope they've sorted out the reliability problems with the latest batch. Now they just need to push HD-DVD forward to fully compete with the PS3.

[deception``]

I bought a PS3, but ONLY because of the Walmart deal that gave you an instant free 10 BD's. It was just too good of a deal to pass up. Still, my 360 is still my main gaming machine because it does happen to have more games and the ones that are multiplatform happen to be enhanced on the console [Love COD4 on XBL]. I don't think Sony will start to see any sort of real momentum until the PS3 gets some real blockbuster EXCLUSIVE games. After all, a lot of 360 sales have been driven by two mega-titles, Gears of War and Halo 3.

Let's see if MGS4 can make any sort of impact on sales. I know I'm looking forward to it.

P.S. - I love the 360 controller so much more than the light, rumble-less Sixaxis. Dualshock 3, where are you!?

deception``

[rainless]

Hooray! Let's have the exact same people who don't like Sony, yet own their systems, bash them again! :rolleyes:

And I, who do not own a PS3, will remind you all that the total amount of SOFTWARE sold for those three systems DWARFS the competition. Some other thead I posted had the NPD numbers during the holiday season. Guitar Hero III and Rockband for the PS2 were both in the top 5. Joined only by GHIII for the 360, Halo 3, and Mario Galaxy.

But sony is still making more... total... on the software front. Anyone have an abacus and want to add-up the lifetime PS2 software sales?

[Hardin]

Well since I don't own a ps3 I will be happy to bash it. It came out a year after the 360, It cost more than the 360, it has a worse controller than the 360, it doesn't have nearly the amount of exclusives that the 360 or wii has, and it doesn't have xbox live(even though live has been sucking these past few days).

[Neural Net]

Hooray! Let's have the exact same people who don't like Sony, yet own their systems, bash them again! :rolleyes:

And I, who do not own a PS3, will remind you all that the total amount of SOFTWARE sold for those three systems DWARFS the competition. Some other thead I posted had the NPD numbers during the holiday season. Guitar Hero III and Rockband for the PS2 were both in the top 5. Joined only by GHIII for the 360, Halo 3, and Mario Galaxy.

But sony is still making more... total... on the software front. Anyone have an abacus and want to add-up the lifetime PS2 software sales?

Comparing a last gen console to a current gen console in terms of sales is hardly fair Rainless. Yay inconsistency rules again! You seem to love Sony, I for one just like products that don't make the user experience difficult, but hey, that's just me. ;)

[Hardin]

Comparing a last gen console to a current gen console in terms of sales is hardly fair Rainless. Yay inconsistency rules again! You seem to love Sony, I for one just like products that don't make the user experience difficult, but hey, that's just me. ;)

Well this thread did start with the op comparing the ps2 sales to the ps3 sales.

[rainless]

Comparing a last gen console to a current gen console in terms of sales is hardly fair Rainless. Yay inconsistency rules again! You seem to love Sony, I for one just like products that don't make the user experience difficult, but hey, that's just me. ;)

A year ago the get-along gang was saying that Sony would be out of business by January 2007. That didn't quite work out.

I'm just trying to inject an ounce of objectivity.

It's clear that Sony's being directed by circus Monkeys... but Nintendo's being directed by insects and Microsoft's being directed by Satan.

My point being? Not one of these companies are any better than the other. How many third-world nations do you want Microsoft to crush before you admit they're just as bad as Sony and how many children and parents do you want Nintendo to leave crying on Christmas morning before you admit that they're probably even worse? :shrug:

[FudgeNuggets]

Hooray! Let's have the exact same people who don't like Sony, yet own their systems, bash them again! :rolleyes:


Who's bashing? I'm just surprised they didn't sell more PS3s after the price drop.

You keep saying that I said they'd be out of business. I never said that, I said they may be bankrupt due to the amount of money they were losing unless SpiderMan 3 could REALLY save the day and I stand by that, with the additional loss they are taking on each PS3 after the price cut that is eating away at the good success they're having and money they're making on the PSP. Bankrupt does not mean out of business. Plenty of companies have filed bankruptcy multiple times yet still soldier on.

[FudgeNuggets]

Well this thread did start with the op comparing the ps2 sales to the ps3 sales.

Yeah but those were Holiday 2007 sales, not lifetime sales as Rainless was quoting. One of the articles I linked said that the DS will eventually pass the PS2 in lifetime sales but that's not the point of the thread....

[rainless]

Who's bashing? I'm just surprised they didn't sell more PS3s after the price drop.

Shouldn't be surprising: The reason they weren't selling any PS3s had precious little to do with the price. People thought $399 was pretty ridiculous when the 360 came out... but they found the cash once they got a look at Gears of War. (Even *I* did.)

Now the PS3 is $399 but there's still no Gears of War-like thing...

...which is why I still don't have one.

Even if it was $299 gamers wouldn't be getting it: People who wanted a bluray player would.

It was never a question of price: Unless your games are $200 a piece (*cough*Neo-Geo*cough*)

[Hardin]

True, in time the current gen consoles will outsell the ps2 but it's hard to overtake such a large install base in just a few years. With the ps3s price drop and some exclusive games coming out soon we should see some increase in sales. Also the increasing dominance of blue-ray will secure the ps3s position even if the games fail.

[benbaked]

Well since I don't own a ps3 I will be happy to bash it. It came out a year after the 360, It cost more than the 360, it has a worse controller than the 360, it doesn't have nearly the amount of exclusives that the 360 or wii has, and it doesn't have xbox live(even though live has been sucking these past few days).

They have a free (for now) online service that is supposedly similar to Xbox Live, I haven't tried it as the only game I was interested in buying (CoD4) was sold out so I got the PC version instead.

I love the 360 controller, it's damn near perfect (except for the Start button being too close to the X button).

An interesting thing about the PS3 is that it will support some older USB gamepads for PC. I plugged a Gravis GamePad Pro into it the other day and was surprised to see it work beautifully. Of course, the 360 controller did not work when I plugged it into the PS3. :p

[Neural Net]

I'm just trying to inject an ounce of objectivity...

... How many third-world nations do you want Microsoft to crush before you admit they're just as bad as Sony and how many children and parents do you want Nintendo to leave crying on Christmas morning before you admit that they're probably even worse? :shrug:


I can see the objectivity right there. :p Besides I'm talking about the products more than the business practice, if you want to be picky. ;)

Hardin, in answer to your statement, Fudge's comparison was fair because it was sales over the same period, not total life time sales - the 360 is not approaching end of life just yet.

I don't like Bluray - more DRM. Sony also tried it with every single product they release - use their own formats in an attempt to limit what their customers can do with their products. In comparison Microsoft's practices are better, even the Zune has some features that Apple could take notice of. Remember there's a difference between closing a platform to ensure integration and closing a platform to limit functionality. But hey, whatever you prefer.

I like the PS2, and I liked the functionality of the PSP (I rated it better than an iPod in that regard) - when they allowed you to use it as you wanted, but the continued firmware updates just started to limit its functionality... Sony would get a hell of a lot more support if they opened up their products.

[rainless]

Microsoft? Ever hear of "Windows"? Microsoft practically invented DRM. It's built into... well... almost everything.

But going back to Fudge's "Heavily slanted against Sony though he's not admitting it now" thread title:

1. It's only natural the PS2 *STILL* outsold the PS3 because the PS2 still has more hit games. I believe the GHIII controller even works on Rockband for the PS2 but not for the PS3. So even the recent hits have an advantage. Not to mention I still haven't played GoW 2 yet, didn't finish 1, and am attempted to rush out and buy both of them by returning Crysis.

2. The thread title should've read: "Xbox 360 handily defeats both the PS3 and the Wii two years after its release."

Because that's the REALLY interesting part. Nintendo's blundering means they were outsold at a time when, according to the Zeldites, they should've been claiming their throne as the number 1 console of the next generation.

Nobody (I hope) ever actually believed that was going to happen. Nintendo doesn't have anymore great games than Sony does. There's an Uncharted for every Super Mario Galaxy and there aren't very many of those.

The Xbox is still the man to beat... And right now it seems like nobody's even trying. I always felt it was stupid to assume that a simple price drop would fix everything for Sony. They should've had an in-house hit ready for launch... or at least ready for this past christmas. And Nintendo needs to check into reality, check into the online market, and get some third party developers (and... oh yeah!... MAKE SOME SYSTEMS) before the rug crawls from under their feet.

Part of the reason why Sony won last time was because they were the incumbent. The other part was because they had the third parties in their pocket. Now it's a role-reversal with Microsoft holding both of those keys. They averted the RROD disaster and now they're going for the jugular. But what some people are hinting at is that Halo 3 might've been their peak. (There's no "Halo 4" coming out this year... or next year. There's no "Gears of War 2" coming out this year... or next year most likely)

2008 is going to be a rough ride for everybody.

[grayg]

I love my Playstations, have always hated Xbox and have treated my Nintendo's as my unique stuff on the side.
I was an absolute certain PS3 buyer within the first year (I live in UK) and yet still I don't own a PS3 though. I can't believe how badly Sony have cocked things up this time around. The PS3 was supposed to be about the real deal stuff, they said something like it themselves it's the everything console, why settle for something when we have everything...

It hasn't delivered that though, too many releases of different PS3 models (if your view of the console is the be all and end all why need for different models?), why remove backward compatibility? I am a loyal Playstation owner I have a PS2 which I got a launch which is still going now (yes I kid you not) but is begining to give it's coughs now, it won't last forever and I want my built in backwards compatibility. No rumble on launch is unforgiveable, I refuse to buy a PS3 that doesn't come with a dual shock 3, I will buy my PS3 when it becomes that 'full package'. What happend to the Sony power of getting lots of 3rd party exclusives?

Although I disagree with the doom and gloom view at the PS3, I really think this year they are about to give their competition a very good fight. As for me though I will be waiting for that proper PS3 to be released, basically PS3 60gb version with my dual shock 3.
Maybe I am being a little harsh and stupidish with my views but for me that TRUE PS3 isn't on the shop shelf yet.

[Neural Net]

Windows hardly has invasive DRM compared to what Sony utilises. Hence why I tend not to buy their products. Windows only limits itself when you haven't got a legitimate copy, and even that is being ditched. Sony on the other hand uses DRM which deliberately hinders the user experience, and so does Apple to some extent - the limits on the DRM'ed songs in the ITMS is quite annoying.

Apart from that you talked a lot of sense in the rest of that post.

The Xbox does get exclusive episodic content (for a while) for the new GTA game out this year, so that may play a part in sales. Sony has got MGS4 and GT5 coming out (and Tekken?) which should shift quite a few consoles - Microsoft needs titles to rival those games.

Microsoft has to tread carefully, it can't afford to lose momentum this year to Sony - hopefully the ultimate won't fetch a price point that is too high. Anyone know the major releases for the 360 this year (exclusives)?

[deception``]

Hooray! Let's have the exact same people who don't like Sony, yet own their systems, bash them again! :rolleyes:

And I, who do not own a PS3, will remind you all that the total amount of SOFTWARE sold for those three systems DWARFS the competition. Some other thead I posted had the NPD numbers during the holiday season. Guitar Hero III and Rockband for the PS2 were both in the top 5. Joined only by GHIII for the 360, Halo 3, and Mario Galaxy.

But sony is still making more... total... on the software front. Anyone have an abacus and want to add-up the lifetime PS2 software sales?

Here comes Rainless to offer his objectivity.....

Fudge nor myself "bashed" the PS3; Fudge mentioned that he was surprised that it didn't sell more and I mentioned that sales would be fueled by a "killer" app such as MGS4. Then again, I doubt you actually read what we said and instead rushed to make more of your witty comments.

Nobody is denying Sony's runaway success with the PS2 and original PS; it's a shame [and quite a shock, honestly] that that same success so far has not transferred to the PS3.

Oh, and logical fallacy 101: comparing the PS2sales of GH3/Rock Band to those of the Wii/360/PS3 is a little misleading. The reason is simple: because the PS2 enjoys a 7 year head start and an install base of well over 100 million units. :)

deception``

[rainless]

Here comes Rainless to offer his objectivity.....

Fudge nor myself "bashed" the PS3; Fudge mentioned that he was surprised that it didn't sell more and I mentioned that sales would be fueled by a "killer" app such as MGS4. Then again, I doubt you actually read what we said and instead rushed to make more of your witty comments.

Nobody is denying Sony's runaway success with the PS2 and original PS; it's a shame [and quite a shock, honestly] that that same success so far has not transferred to the PS3.

Oh, and logical fallacies 101: comparing the PS2sales of GH3/Rock Band to those of the Wii/360/PS3 is a little misleading. The reason is simple: because the PS2 enjoys a 7 year head start and an install base of well over 100 million units. :)

deception``

Cute. But you and I have already done this dance before. Moving on. :)

Windows hardly has invasive DRM compared to what Sony utilises. Hence why I tend not to buy their products. Windows only limits itself when you haven't got a legitimate copy, and even that is being ditched. Sony on the other hand uses DRM which deliberately hinders the user experience, and so does Apple to some extent - the limits on the DRM'ed songs in the ITMS is quite annoying.

Apart from that you talked a lot of sense in the rest of that post.

The Xbox does get exclusive episodic content (for a while) for the new GTA game out this year, so that may play a part in sales. Sony has got MGS4 and GT5 coming out (and Tekken?) which should shift quite a few consoles - Microsoft needs titles to rival those games.

Microsoft has to tread carefully, it can't afford to lose momentum this year to Sony - hopefully the ultimate won't fetch a price point that is too high. Anyone know the major releases for the 360 this year (exclusives)?

I won't argue DRM with you: I actually know practically nothing about it. It just made for a nice opening to my paragraph. ;)

I agree with you on the rest though: All of Sony's big exclusives hit this year and only one (Dark Sector) for Microsoft... and THAT ONE may flop like a lot of titles did this Christmas (delayed... re-delayed... and still no good when it finally comes out... a la Kane and Lynch.)

Sony had

Metal Gear Solid 4
Killzone
Haze
Gran Turismo
(Maybe) Tekken (Though I'm betting 2009.)

And they still have God of War III waiting in the wings when all else fails.

No one exclusive title is going to beat that list. But I don't think Microsoft should swing hard and miss either (rush out some exclusive of their own, have it suck, and watch people start trading in their 360s for PS3s a la SNES/Genises Mortal Kombat 1). I think they should play up to their strengths: They have a contract with SNK/Playmore now. They should come out with ALL of the SNK games to boost their Live Arcade. Samurai Shodown, King of Fighters... ALL of it. And while they're at it Killer Instinct and Perfect Dark.

If they can't get the exclusives fast enough they need to really work on exclusive content and they REALLY need to push for co-op in all multiplayer games. I always felt there was no reason why every multiplayer game can't be co-op. COD4 should've been, Crysis (for the PC) should've been. Work it into the story. Worked WONDERS for Gears. They need to build on their formula.

I'm sure they're aware of their weaknesses. I just hope that, instead of futilely attacking them, they play up their strengths. (Live and the Live Arcade have SUCKED lately... with the exception of Metal Slug 3.)

[Neural Net]

Microsoft should remake the original Perfect Dark on the N64, I would definitely buy that. Better than Goldeneye imo and the multiplayer remains strong to this day.

By the way Crysis was going to have co-op, but it was ditched to get the game out on time in a more optimised state, we could see it in a later patch, but nothing official has been said on the subject since. Maybe that's why the patch they promised two weeks after release is nowhere to be seen. One can dream - a mod is in development anyway :beer:

If only one or two of those PS3 games were coming out this year, it wouldn't be enough and Sony better pray that Killzone gets good reviews, if it gets a review like Kane and Lynch then most won't buy the console for 2 games, 4-5 yes but not 2. Of course it's already had the bad press of looking no where near the FMV that was touted as the in-game graphics, so it'll be interesting to see how they pull this off. The diehard fans of the GT and MGS series will buy a PS3 at this point, but in the UK at least, most will not drop £300 plus another £50 for just one game - they did for Halo because the marketing was amazing (unlike the game imo) and it's cheaper.

[rainless]

If only one or two of those PS3 games were coming out this year, it wouldn't be enough and Sony better pray that Killzone gets good reviews, if it gets a review like Kane and Lynch then most won't buy the console for 2 games, 4-5 yes but not 2. Of course it's already had the bad press of looking no where near the FMV that was touted as the in-game graphics, so it'll be interesting to see how they pull this off. The diehard fans of the GT and MGS series will buy a PS3 at this point, but in the UK at least, most will not drop £300 plus another £50 for just one game - they did for Halo because the marketing was amazing (unlike the game imo) and it's cheaper.

That was just the SHORT list. All of those games (well not tekken) were supposed to be out last year. And a little bird has told me that GTA IV will have many technological advantages in the PS3 version over the 360 version.

Most of those games were ready last year but got pushed back so that they wouldn't pull a Crysis. Sony isn't going for compromise now. They knew they wouldn't have anything to compete with Halo 3 just like they knew that Microsoft would have nothing to compete with anything in 2008. Now THAT's clever.

Because they other side of the coin is Sony playing to THEIR strengths. Their online component is free... but they haven't exactly been rubbing it in everyone's faces... yet. My guess? They're waiting on Home. You won't even be able to make a clan in Xbox Live but you'll be able to start your own community on PSN... for FREE to boot. So you'll have that... AND the exclusives (Gran Turismo will make Forza 2 look like it never happened... along with every other racing game since Burnout 3) and the slightly more even footing on prices (once you add a year of Xbox Live... they're the same price... until the next year).

It's going to be a rough ride. There's a lot of ifs though.

[nasvemos671]

I own a Wii, a ps2, a nintendo ds lite, and a psp. All of which imo have had their moments of greatness at one time or another. Right now I'm really enjoying the ds, with all there little puzzle games (picross, brain age). My wii is my prize though, I can remember driving for hours just looking for one. I was lucky enough to have a wife that happened to be in the right place at the right time. I really didnt think that the Wii's would have sold this holiday season the way they did, oh I forgot to mention the ds lite i got...was a X-mas gift. Just my 2 cents

[FudgeNuggets]

I've downloaded the Gran Turismo 5 demo and it DOES look impressive, it is just too late to the game.

Don't forget a couple Aces up MicroSoft's sleeve: Fable 2 and EXCLUSIVE EPIC game downloadable game content for Grand Theft Auto 4, those are BIG guns.

Maybe instead of arguing about Sony vs Microsoft, we can discuss how Nintendo has taken a GOLDEN opportunity to regain the crown from Sony but instead has briefly touched the crown before handing it off to MicroSoft and pulling out a 12 gauge and aiming straight at the foot then pulling the trigger.

[Illah]

I don't think Nintendo is even competing with Sony and M$ right now, it's a completely different sector. It's a toy more than a console. It's fun for everyone. Kinda like the DS.

You can almost say that Nintendo is trying to become TV where Sony and M$ are trying to become Hollywood. Great films elevate to works of art and can generate big bucks, but when all is said and done regular old disposable TV makes way, way more money.

As for Sony and M$ I think a lot of this "ONE MUST WIN!!!" talk is unnecessary. This isn't VHS vs. Beta, it's more like XBox vs. PS2. Both of them coexisted pretty well, it's not like original XBox was doomed for failure just because it had a smaller market share.

--Illah

[Hazaro]

Halo 3 is out, no 360 owner cares about anything anymore :rolleyes:

Nintendo makes money on hardware, so they don't care when parents buy $30 product placements games for their children, or don't for that matter.

I agree with Rainless more than usual in this thread.

But sony is still making more... total... on the software front. Anyone have an abacus and want to add-up the lifetime PS2 software sales?

NO RAINLESS, YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BRING THAT UP. :bang head

[rainless]

I own a Wii, a ps2, a nintendo ds lite, and a psp. All of which imo have had their moments of greatness at one time or another. Right now I'm really enjoying the ds, with all there little puzzle games (picross, brain age). My wii is my prize though, I can remember driving for hours just looking for one. I was lucky enough to have a wife that happened to be in the right place at the right time. I really didnt think that the Wii's would have sold this holiday season the way they did, oh I forgot to mention the ds lite i got...was a X-mas gift. Just my 2 cents

The Wii thing was yet another Nintendo blunder: They should've handily outsold the 360... but they didn't.

Gross negligence. But I think it's Nintendo's answer to round 2: Keep the stock as low as possible so the demand will be as high as possible. Why? Because they know they only have those one or two hits a year. They know they can only pump them out every six months and they've done everything int their power to disuade third party support.

It won't work for the same reason that lowering the price didn't work for the PS3: You have to be able to sustain the people that DID get one of your systems and attract the people that don't want them.

I think there'll be (besides the fatcats like fudge and deceptobot ;) ) very few people buying more than one of these ridiculously expensive systems. It's not like last gen where it was "PS2 $150... Xbox $175... Buy 'em both!". Now any one of those systems cost twice as much. Buyers are likely to get the system that offers them the best bang for their buck... and the one with the brightest future.

I don't think Nintendo is even competing with Sony and M$ right now, it's a completely different sector.

Who came up with that idea? Oh yeah... That's right... NINTENDO DID. Nice way to exclude your video game system from direct comparison to the other video game systems. It's a machine who's primary purpose is to play video games which you operate using a controller. And in case you needed any more convincing, the company that made said machine is called "Nintendo."

It's a video game system.


You can almost say that Nintendo is trying to become TV where Sony and M$ are trying to become Hollywood. Great films elevate to works of art and can generate big bucks, but when all is said and done regular old disposable TV makes way, way more money.

As for Sony and M$ I think a lot of this "ONE MUST WIN!!!" talk is unnecessary. This isn't VHS vs. Beta, it's more like XBox vs. PS2. Both of them coexisted pretty well, it's not like original XBox was doomed for failure just because it had a smaller market share.

--Illah

One need not win... But there is a such thing as losing. Ask Sega. Ask SNK. Sustaining market share is ridiculously important and it isn't as easy as any of these companies are making it look. If Sony slips up bad enough... maybe not this generation, but this generation AND next generation... then they WILL be out of the video game market. It could happen to Microsoft, but it could also happen to Nintendo: Standing next to Sega liscensing their titles to Microsoft and Sony.

I didn't think it would ever happen to Sega. Buuuuuuuuut.

[Falcon-K]

Looking at some software sale charts from vgchartz it seems exactly the same as the hardware picture! But you are right software sales do matter the most.

http://www.vgchartz.com/aweekly.php


Wii - 1,769,591
Xbox 360 - 1,710,465
DS - 1,528,770
PS2 - 1,078,708
PS3 - 680,407
PSP - 677,130

[rainless]

Looking at some software sale charts from vgchartz it seems exactly the same as the hardware picture! But you are right software sales do matter the most.

http://www.vgchartz.com/aweekly.php


Wii - 1,769,591
Xbox 360 - 1,710,465
DS - 1,528,770
PS2 - 1,078,708
PS3 - 680,407
PSP - 677,130

Not trustworthy. Nintendo counts WiiSports in their tally meanwhile Xbox 360's 2 games aren't counted. The only reliable source... besides somebody like Reuters, is NPD.

[Tyranos]

I'll be picking up a ps3 just for 3 or 4 games, rest of the time will just be used for a bray player. I ended up selling my 360 a long time ago after finishing GOW, Dead Rising, etc.

[Hazaro]

Looking at some software sale charts from vgchartz it seems exactly the same as the hardware picture! But you are right software sales do matter the most.

http://www.vgchartz.com/aweekly.php


Wii - 1,769,591
Xbox 360 - 1,710,465
DS - 1,528,770
PS2 - 1,078,708
PS3 - 680,407
PSP - 677,130

As rainless said VGCharts is worthless.

Same goes for most BR and HD-DVD "sales" free bundled movies anyone?

[tenchi86]

So then Sony was correct about PS2 for another 2 years?

[rainless]

As rainless said VGCharts is worthless.

Same goes for most BR and HD-DVD "sales" free bundled movies anyone?

Exactly. These companies aren't doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. There's a WAR going on. And if Sony gets to say "Over 3,000,000 Blu-Ray discs sold..." nobody at Warner Brothers studios is going to stop to make the connection between that and the Blu-ray rebate slips at Best Buy.

[Hazaro]

So then Sony was correct about PS2 for another 2 years?

PS2 is king of everything.

It's cheap, thin, and has all the best games for $20.

[rainless]

PS2 is king of everything.

It's cheap, thin, and has all the best games for $20.

Not to mention all the Guitar Hero and Rock Band sequels alone could keep it floating for two years.

There'll be another Madden next year... another Smackdown... ALL the sports titles. And the install base is still there. My uncle and all but one of my cousins (who has a rich girlfriend) still have PS2s.

They'll do just fine. It's the last sub-$150 home system standing.

[Cheator]

None of this is true until the SDF have announced the true winner. I'm excited to see who'll win this month. Will it be the sony family? Jees the anticipation :).


Rainless, why are you getting defensive man? They're just numbers. Plus, you got the SDF on your side, is all good man. they'll come up with a perfectly logical explanation as to why the PS3 sold 5 units last year, and somehow make it look like they outsold everything else anyway.

[FudgeNuggets]

Not to mention all the Guitar Hero and Rock Band sequels alone could keep it floating for two years.

There'll be another Madden next year... another Smackdown... ALL the sports titles. And the install base is still there. My uncle and all but one of my cousins (who has a rich girlfriend) still have PS2s.

They'll do just fine. It's the last sub-$150 home system standing.

Unless the software devs find that they're selling too many $20 games and not making enough money to cover costs by selling $60 games and decide to cut off support which they can do at ANY time.

[Shiggity]

Halo saved 360, PS3 doesn't have any truly amazing games.

The way I see it, the console market is just about games now. Why should you buy an xbox 360 when you can buy a computer for almost the same price. Answer - games of course. Consoles need amazing titles that are only available to them to be successful imo.

[Falcon-K]

Not trustworthy. Nintendo counts WiiSports in their tally meanwhile Xbox 360's 2 games aren't counted. The only reliable source... besides somebody like Reuters, is NPD.

Ok, NPD from November:

http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/npd-game-industry-sales-explode-to-263-billion-in-november/18854/?biz=1

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Xbox 360) -- 1.57m
Super Mario Galaxy (Wii) -- 1.12m
Assassin's Creed (Xbox 360) -- 980K
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (PS2) -- 967K
Wii Play w/ Remote (Wii) -- 564KK
Mass Effect (Xbox 360) -- 473K
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (PS3) -- 444K
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (Wii) -- 426K
Halo 3 (Xbox 360) -- 387K
Assassin's Creed (PS3) -- 377K

NPD STILL shows that the 360, wii were the dominant platforms for software. The numbers on vgchartz may not be 100% but from the times they have compared their results to NPD they are pretty close +/-10% which isnt that far off. Even if you +/-30-75% on vgchartz the PS3 still wouldn't have competed against the wii or 360 in sales.

If you look at the NPD results CoD4 had 1.57m at the end of November, vgcharts has CoD4 at 1.46m at 12/01. Which is a difference of a little over 7%.. Is it really that worthless? Other than guitar hero they are very close to Novembers NPD, with some being only a thousand off.

The two free xbox titles were included on that chart... Its forza and marvel alliance.

I would like to see where your evidence is that the PS2 is still king of software sales?

[rainless]

Unless the software devs find that they're selling too many $20 games and not making enough money to cover costs by selling $60 games and decide to cut off support which they can do at ANY time.

If they sell 3 PS2 games for every 1 PS3 game... same diff. But obviously they can stop whenever necessary.

Halo saved 360, PS3 doesn't have any truly amazing games.


...yet. Which is the point. Give it two or three months.

Ok, NPD from November:

http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/npd-game-industry-sales-explode-to-263-billion-in-november/18854/?biz=1

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Xbox 360) -- 1.57m
Super Mario Galaxy (Wii) -- 1.12m
Assassin's Creed (Xbox 360) -- 980K
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (PS2) -- 967K
Wii Play w/ Remote (Wii) -- 564KK
Mass Effect (Xbox 360) -- 473K
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (PS3) -- 444K
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (Wii) -- 426K
Halo 3 (Xbox 360) -- 387K
Assassin's Creed (PS3) -- 377K

NPD STILL shows that the 360, wii were the dominant platforms for software. The numbers on vgchartz may not be 100% but from the times they have compared their results to NPD they are pretty close +/-10% which isnt that far off. Even if you +/-30-75% on vgchartz the PS3 still wouldn't have competed against the wii or 360 in sales.

If you look at the NPD results CoD4 had 1.57m at the end of November, vgcharts has CoD4 at 1.46m at 12/01. Which is a difference of a little over 7%.. Is it really that worthless? Other than guitar hero

Other than Guitar Hero? Other than the best-selling cross-platform game of 2007 you mean? And that 7% you casually disregard is 110THOUSAND copies... times about $60. So how insignificant is that in dollars?

None of this is true until the SDF have announced the true winner. I'm excited to see who'll win this month. Will it be the sony family? Jees the anticipation :).


Rainless, why are you getting defensive man? They're just numbers. Plus, you got the SDF on your side, is all good man. they'll come up with a perfectly logical explanation as to why the PS3 sold 5 units last year, and somehow make it look like they outsold everything else anyway.

Ahh... Now that's just BAITING. Best left to the pros. :beer:

I don't care about Sony's success (I don't even want a PS3) I care about the interpretation of facts. When you (and not YOU specifically, before this turns into another misunderstanding about "our feelings) say "360 and Wii outsold Sony" you have to qualify what you're talking about.

Because first of all: Who cares? What's more significant is WHAT's selling. One of the games that sold well for the wii is the damned game that comes with a controller which... as all men know... people just buy for the controller. Maybe some places are still sold out of the Wiimotes and figured "Eh, why not?" Ask yourself this: Why was nintendo including a controller with a game in the first place? Same reason Microsoft and Sony (though Microsoft caught on a little too late to be relevent to Warner Brothers) were giving away HD movies for free... pad the sales figures.

And yet the PS2 version of GHIII handily outsold the Wii version and nearly sold more than that and WiiPlay *combined*. Which exposes Sony's weakness: No Super Mario Galaxy. Nintendo has one exclusive title (I'm not even considering WiiPlay a real game) in the top ten compared to two for the 360 and none for Sony. Those numbers will change for Sony and Microsoft (and stay the same for Nintendo) in 2008.

It also exposes that people prefer to play their multiplayer games on Xbox Live though it does show the gap narrowing: The PS3 version of COD4 also made the top ten.

I predict the controller game will continue to sell (for obvious reasons) Nintendo won't have another hit until SSB and won't have another hit afterwards until their next Nintendo game. What's REALLY going to be rough is the PC market this year... but that's another story. :)

[Cheator]

Oh I wasn't baiting. Any chance I get to make fun of SDF I take it.

And yes I'm worried about the PC Market as well. All this hype about consoles, and PC is wavering off into the background.

[FudgeNuggets]

And yes I'm worried about the PC Market as well. All this hype about consoles, and PC is wavering off into the background.

Let it. The PC is meant for more important things than games. I'd rather have a dedicated console game well than to have a PC do it half-assed or need a new video card every 2 years. I do not like PC gaming, LOVE console gaming. PArt of my attitude stems from not giving a flying frack about FPS games.

[rainless]

Oh I wasn't baiting. Any chance I get to make fun of SDF I take it.

And yes I'm worried about the PC Market as well. All this hype about consoles, and PC is wavering off into the background.

Let it. The PC is meant for more important things than games. I'd rather have a dedicated console game well than to have a PC do it half-assed or need a new video card every 2 years. I do not like PC gaming, LOVE console gaming. PArt of my attitude stems from not giving a flying frack about FPS games.

Well then you can rest your head gently upon your pillow at night: PC gaming is DONE.

If the replacement video card that EVGA is sending to replace my replacement video card doesn't get Adobe Premiere Pro working for me... I'm going to have them refund me and I'll get a 2400XT or something:

Crysis was the last hoorah for PC gaming. Bioshock, COD4, and the Orange Box proved that anything PC gaming could do Consoles could do... if not better... than more profitably.

Only Acti-Blizzard is still interested in PC gaming these days. And you can even kiss THAT goodby once they figure out a way to get World of Warcraft on the console.

If you thought the 2008 list of Xbox exclusives look bad... check out the rundown of upcoming PC games... YEAH.

It's DUN DONE.

...and cooked!

[Hardin]

People have been saying pc gaming has been dying for years, but it hasn't and it wont. My pc gaming still goes on strong. It's only with the current consoles that I have even been interested in playing consoles again. The last gen was a joke compared to the graphics that the pc games had. The main reason I use my computers is for the games.

[IR1]

I hope not, PC gaming has always been where it is at for me. Though I did just buy a Xbox 360 last month. I really do not like playing FPS's with a controller, infact I loathe it. I got the Xbox 360 for sports games, racing, action games, and RPGs. Though I do have Halo 3, of course, and I still enjoy it though I wish I could play it with a mouse.

I would not be so quick to call PC gaming dead, this seems to happen everytime we are in the heat of a console war. Though I knew PC gaming has seen better days...

[Hardin]

I still don't see how they made BFMEII or C&C3 for the 360. I just have thoughts of Starcraft 64 all over again.

[rainless]

People have been saying pc gaming has been dying for years, but it hasn't and it wont. My pc gaming still goes on strong. It's only with the current consoles that I have even been interested in playing consoles again. The last gen was a joke compared to the graphics that the pc games had. The main reason I use my computers is for the games.


Yeah, we know about you and those six other guys. :)

Unfortunately you're all outside the target demographic of most third party game publishers. People keep saying PC gaming is dying because it HAS been progressively dying a very sloooooow... miserable death over the past five or ten years. MMORPG is really the only thing PC gamers have left.

Last year... if you hadn't noticed... Console gaming stole all the sales figures for FPS... Sales of COD4 on the 360 and PS3 were more than double the PC sales. Similar numbers for Bioshock and The Orange Box (which benefitted from low prices and sales on the PC version.)

PC gaming genres have all but evaporated. Sales are at an all-time low. And the most anticipated PC game of 2007, Crysis... TANKED in sales.

These are not good signs.

PC gaming won't "completely" die... But once consoles have 320 gig hard drives (which may be very soon) it'll just become derivative. Most PC games will be ports of console games. And you know how much PC gamers hate THAT. ;)

[Neural Net]

Rainless, that is the most stupid comment I have ever seen you post, and that's saying something. ;)

PC gaming is not dying, especially when MMOs rule supreme on PCs rather than consoles - which are currently the most lucrative genre of games to date. Crysis was not a last hoorah - it was a showcase that a PC with a Core 2 Duo and 8800GT that can be built for a decent price can produce graphics far beyond what the consoles can manage.

[Cheator]

You can call it done all you want, but it isn't. PC gaming, while in a slump, is still a popular platform for online gaming (unfortunately). What I've wanted to see for a long time, however, is a 'platform' for PC. Basically, a set of specs that the system meets so that you can be assured a game will run. It would make things simplier for the consumer. An example of this, albeit terrible, is the Windows Vista scoring. IT tells you waht score you need and what score is recomended.

[Hazaro]

WoW is the only thing saving PC Gaming.

lol

[Hardin]

PC gaming might be in a slump but it wont die. It's only because of the console ports that it is in the position it is in now. Games like Starcraft 2 will breath new life into pc gaming.

[FudgeNuggets]

WoW is the only thing saving PC Gaming.

lol

agree completely, if this comes to the PS3 or 360... PC gaming will be as big as Mac gaming.

[Hardin]

You have no proof to back that up. It's obvious your bias towards console gaming is clouding your judgment.

[IR1]

I agree with Hardin....

[Neural Net]

You have no proof to back that up. It's obvious your bias towards console gaming is clouding your judgment.

Of course, that's typical of most of his comments, but I do admire his balls to the wall commitment to what he thinks is right. :p

In 1998 he was probably one of those that said that Apple was going to die. ;)

[rainless]

Rainless, that is the most stupid comment I have ever seen you post, and that's saying something. ;)

PC gaming is not dying, especially when MMOs rule supreme on PCs rather than consoles - which are currently the most lucrative genre of games to date. Crysis was not a last hoorah - it was a showcase that a PC with a Core 2 Duo and 8800GT that can be built for a decent price can produce graphics far beyond what the consoles can manage.

You can call it done all you want, but it isn't. PC gaming, while in a slump, is still a popular platform for online gaming (unfortunately). What I've wanted to see for a long time, however, is a 'platform' for PC. Basically, a set of specs that the system meets so that you can be assured a game will run. It would make things simplier for the consumer. An example of this, albeit terrible, is the Windows Vista scoring. IT tells you waht score you need and what score is recomended.

WoW is the only thing saving PC Gaming.

lol

Alright kiddies calm down:

First of all I already said that PCs ruled the MMORPG world. It's in my last post if you don't believe me. But, since we were talking about the future of gaming, I felt it necessary to point out that this might not last long.

Third party developers are already working on getting their games onto consoles. Microsoft has already made an exception to their rule that every 360 game MUST be able to be played without the HDD: They gave MMORPG developers carte blanche.

Your next homework assignment? Go to the game review site of your choice and look at the last... I don't know... 20-30 releases on PC and the last 20-30 on the consoles.

OH... Should've told you to sit down first.

You'll also notice... at the end of my last post:

PC gaming won't "completely" die... But once consoles have 320 gig hard drives (which may be very soon) it'll just become derivative. Most PC games will be ports of console games. And you know how much PC gamers hate THAT.

Did Assasin's Creed ever make it to the PC?

[IR1]

Its slated for release within the next few months...

[Hardin]

It's supposed to come out February and there is no reason to believe it will be any less of a game than the 360 or the ps3 version. You can't just make broad statements like pc gaming is dead without any proof. I could say that Oni wets his bed that doesn't make it true. The console section of this message board is full of hate, fud, misconceptions, and arrogance. Every time I come here someone is bashing something and it gets old after awhile.

[grayg]

Did Assasin's Creed ever make it to the PC?

Out mid next month on PC, but if you are giving it as an example of what PC is missing, then I think it's atleast a poor choice of game since it's not exactly that great of a game anyway. Although if Ubisoft don't do the half assed job people like doing these days, it will end up superior to console versions for those who do care I'm sure.

Oblivion is a great example of PC superiority at the moment I feel, better graphics, faster load times and a shed load of top mods. I think consoles are probably another generation away from being able to finally compete with the PC.

[IR1]

True dat! Right now PC gaming is in a slump due to the consoles being a good price to performance ratio. The consoles are starting to really hit their stride and had a lot of good releases that COMPETED with the PC, multiplatform once again. The reality is more people have consoles than relatively powerful computers. So popular games on all patforms will outsell the PC counterparts. PC gaming will see better days and it will probably see worse days. It really has to do with the consoles and where we are in this cycle. Right now its the boom for consoles, give it a few years, where PC gaming will blow the Xbox 360 away and it will make a mini comback, at least until the Xbox 720 and PS4 come out...

[Niku-Sama]

MMO's arent going to save pc gaming, alot of people wont pay for a subscription to a game they just dropped $30+ on.
i dont like paying what i do on wow and infact i am going to cancel my subscription after i get off the phone with unemployment because i keep forgetting.
in any case FPS games will always suck on consoles, in Wi they are bareable but still have some things needing to be worked out.

what will save PC gaming is some breakthrough new game only available on the PC, you can throw all the hardware and fancy new physics cards and what not all day and it owont save jack.

[IR1]

I think that game was called Crysis... but I think Crysis' sales were hurt by its own attitude of "our game is so graphically awesome you can't play it on your computer." I think that scared people into waiting till they get a better computer to buy Crysis. I belive the future is still bright for Crysis, but it was not an immediate "sales" success.

[Neural Net]

Rainless you're still wrong. :)

[IR1]

He often is... even though he tries so hard to be right :P

[rainless]

Out mid next month on PC, but if you are giving it as an example of what PC is missing, then I think it's atleast a poor choice of game since it's not exactly that great of a game anyway. Although if Ubisoft don't do the half assed job people like doing these days, it will end up superior to console versions for those who do care I'm sure.

Oblivion is a great example of PC superiority at the moment I feel, better graphics, faster load times and a shed load of top mods.

Better graphics! Faster load time! MONEY: The PS3 and 360 versions made... more... MONEY.

It's supposed to come out February and there is no reason to believe it will be any less of a game than the 360 or the ps3 version. You can't just make broad statements like pc gaming is dead without any proof. .

I just did! If you've noticed I've offered zero proof for any of the outrageously broad statements that I've made over the course of lo these three many pages... and somehow the conversation seems to have evolved from "Sony sucks" to people actually discussing the nature of the sales figures.

Do you really think I actually give a damn about any of this stuff? I'm not one of those guys with a Luigi backpack, Solid Snake wrist-band, and a Master Chief helmet sitting on my dresser drawer. I spent most of the time I haven't been writing in this thread trying to get this damned butter cookie recipe right.

Because I'm SICK of chocolate chip cookies! They were fine for a couple of months when I was seven... but then some girl who wishes she was your ex invites you over to make cookies, leaves you at her place with her hot sister (who cooks you dinner and watches a movie with you...) and shows up five hours late. And when she does get there? She doesn't even ASK YOU what kind of cookies YOU want. And when they finally do get around to asking you what kind of cookies you want... they're too tired to make them.

Noo... Take my advice Hardin: If it didn't work out with her, it wouldn't work out with her sister either. If only because, when the mother finds out, she'll hate your guts and it won't work anyway.

Meanwhile you've got the PC people invading the console turf and all hell breaks loose.

Though the thread did improve... :beer:

[FudgeNuggets]

Here's the card it takes to run Crysis on high graphics settings. I'll take a 360 Elite for over $100 less thank you.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130307

Look at the first buyer comment:

I love this card
Reviewed By: DogVI on 12/30/2007
Tech Level: somewhat high - Ownership: 1 week to 1 month
This user purchased this item from Newegg.com
Pros: This card is screaming fast in most applications. Ideal for video editing! C&C3 plays at the same speed through the whole game! crysis is mostly smooth at high settings. world in conflict is amazing.
Cons: It seems to me that this card is extreamly cpu limited. i have a pentium D 2.8gHz and this card does not perform as i thought from previuos reviews. don't get me wrong, its fast, just...i'm faster :].
Other Thoughts: I got this card for crysis. ;] i wounder if i overclock my cpu i will get better FPS? huge card, not a con though i have a 5 year old computer somewhat small case and this card fits very well. (thank you hp) had to get a new power supply but i need a new one anyways

[Cheator]

What Crysis are you playing? Works great on my rig. Besides, the 360 can play it, but it won't look as good, thats for sure. Or if its on the PS3, it will be limited to 30fps.

[rainless]

What Crysis are you playing? Works great on my rig. Besides, the 360 can play it, but it won't look as good, thats for sure. Or if its on the PS3, it will be limited to 30fps.

30fps is GREAT for crysis. And of course Fudge... the Mac Militant... has never played... and probably never seen, outside of video on the internet, Crysis. :beer:

I hear he plays a mean game of Mancala though... ;)

[Hardin]

A console version of Crysis will never look as good as the pc version. In a few years pcs will have far better graphics than the 360 or ps3. The same happened with the last gen, and the one before that. And Rainless I have no idea what any of that meant. You were rambling more than you normally do.

[Niku-Sama]

I think that game was called Crysis... but I think Crysis' sales were hurt by its own attitude of "our game is so graphically awesome you can't play it on your computer." I think that scared people into waiting till they get a better computer to buy Crysis. I belive the future is still bright for Crysis, but it was not an immediate "sales" success.

i fail to see how crysis was a break through game, it appears to be a FPS.
last time i checked it wasnt the first FPS in the gaming world

[Hardin]

i fail to see how crysis was a break through game, it appears to be a FPS.
last time i checked it wasnt the first FPS in the gaming world
You can say that about any game that is in an existing genre. There's nothing special about Mass Effect because it's just another rpg. :rolleyes:

[FudgeNuggets]

30fps is GREAT for crysis. And of course Fudge... the Mac Militant... has never played... and probably never seen, outside of video on the internet, Crysis. :beer:

I hear he plays a mean game of Mancala though... ;)

Don't even challenge me to a game of shiny African stones, you thought the football beatdown was bad...... ;)

[rainless]

Don't even challenge me to a game of shiny African stones, you thought the football beatdown was bad...... ;)

I can't even UNDERSTAND Mancala... though I have won. I couldn't tell you HOW i won... Maybe I need to spend some time in the Mother Land...

@Hardin: Hehehehehe....

[IR1]

i fail to see how crysis was a break through game, it appears to be a FPS.
last time i checked it wasnt the first FPS in the gaming world



I meant in the graphical sense, not really gameplay sense, though it is a great game.

[TheGreySpectre]

RTS games are still a reasonably popular genre, a Genre I would like to say sucks on the console. Any FPS available I buy on the PC as the keyboard and mouse are superior for aiming. Am I the only one who remembers "PC gaming is dieing threads" when the PS2 was released? PC gaming is not dead, nor will it be for a very long time.

[rainless]

RTS games are still a reasonably popular genre, a Genre I would like to say sucks on the console. Any FPS available I buy on the PC as the keyboard and mouse are superior for aiming. Am I the only one who remembers "PC gaming is dieing threads" when the PS2 was released? PC gaming is not dead, nor will it be for a very long time.

Yeah... we covered that already. What now? :)

[Niku-Sama]

I meant in the graphical sense, not really gameplay sense, though it is a great game.

graphics dont make a great game,
we need something like spre but hell, who knows if its even going to be comming out any more. and even then is it really any thing innovative?

[FudgeNuggets]

The longer a console is out the better the graphics get too. I mean look at some initial PS2 games, they look like garbage compared to God of War 2.

Take the 360 as well, everyone raved about how good Oblivion looked, well a year and a half later I think 2 worlds makes Oblivion look sick.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/twoworlds/images.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gsimage&tag=images;all