The Official 3870X2 Reviews Thread

[Albuquerque]

Rumors suggest (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/01/22/3870x2-delayed) launch will be delayed, but I don't believe that affects NDA on review. (not that NDA ever stopped anyone)

Reviews up thus far:
Guru3D (http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/490/1/)
AnandTech (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3209)
ComputerBase (http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.computerbase.de%2Fart ikel%2Fhardware%2Fgrafikkarten%2F2008%2Ftest_ati_r adeon_hd_3870_x2%2F&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8) (translated)
Hardware Canucks (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/4236-ati-radeon-hd3870-x2-1gb-review.html)
Hot Hardware (http://www.hothardware.com/Articles/R680_Has_Landed_ATI_Radeon_HD_3870_X2/)
Digit-Life (http://www.digit-life.com/articles3/video/rv670-3-part1.html)
PCPop (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://www.pcpop.com/doc/0/266/266637_15.shtml&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.pcpop.com/doc/0/266/266637_15.shtml%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG)
IXBT (http://www.ixbt.com/video3/rv670-3-part1.shtml) (in Russian)
techPowerUp (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_3870_X2/)
Techreport (http://techreport.com/articles.x/13967)
ExpReview (http://www.expreview.com/news/hard/2008-01-22/1200970900d7627.html)
PCOnline (http://www.pconline.com.cn/diy/graphics/reviews/0801/1210234.html) (scroll thru comments in this article (http://www.techpowerup.com/?50373) for english results of PCOnline's findings)
FPSLabs (http://www.fpslabs.com/reviews/video/amd-radeon-hd-3870-x2-review)
InsideHW (http://www.insidehw.com/Reviews/Graphics-cards/ATI-Radeon-HD-3870X2-1-GB.html) (This site seems to give intermittent account errors)
Toms Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/01/23/ati_r680_the_rage_fury_maxx_2/) (down for now, but should work on 2008-01-24)
TweakTown (http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1279/1/page_1_introduction/index.html)

As you see them, post 'em up and I'll edit this post and get them all put in.

[ratbuddy]

The "Rumors suggest" link is dead.

[Albuquerque]

Thanks, had a trailing backslash in the URL -- whoops! :beer:

[reboot]

is ati really going to have the worlds most powerful graphics card?

nvidia WTF!

[chrome-187]

i've had enough of nvidia and there rediculous overpriced pos video cards...its about time ATI got back in the game with there affordable better graphix video cards!!

[nd4spdbh2]

i've had enough of nvidia and there rediculous overpriced pos video cards...its about time ATI got back in the game with there affordable better graphix video cards!!

haha sweet... now nvidia will come out with a g92 based gtx than single handedly will smack this to the ground :beer:

haha just kidding (or am i :santa:) only time will tell but hopfully this does bring out some competition, which sadly amd/ati has lacked compared to nvidia / intel...

OK i have made my one apearance here on the ati fourm for this month haha.

[WiglyWorm]

haha sweet... now nvidia will come out with a g92 based gtx than single handedly will smack this to the ground :beer:

haha just kidding (or am i :santa:) only time will tell but hopfully this does bring out some competition, which sadly amd/ati has lacked compared to nvidia / intel...

OK i have made my one apearance here on the ati fourm for this month haha.

Basically, yeah. nVidia has already announced a 9000 line of cards. They're not truely deserving of the 9xxx series, as they are just the G92 die shrink, but think of them as the g92 GTX. The other one in the line is basically 2 g92 GTS cores on the same PCB. Same trick the 3870x2 is pulling, with a better core.

So.. yeah.. 3870x2 will close the gap some on the high end, but it won't take the crown back for long.

[azuza001]

Freaken sweeet.

[Neuromancer]

Ouch looks like the x2 is needing a 8 pin PCIE plug as well. I thought that was gone for good... :(

[azuza001]

(looks at the picture)

Son of a B#*ch your right. That sucks!

[BossBorot]

I cant wait for more info on this card specifially in regards to pci-e 1.1 vs pci-e 2.0. Preliminary info is pointing to a significant difference in speeds which I was not expecting. There is no way that I would buy this card but its fun to watch what happens

[Shiggity]

ATI is far from maintaining a lead in the high end GPU market. Looks nice though.

[Brando]

As far as the 8 pin plug goes it may be good in a way. I was scared I'd need a pcie2.0 motherboard to give it enough power if it didn't have the power plugs. At least theres a way without doing a total upgrade.

[BossBorot]

the 8 pin is not needed to deliver more power it can run fine on pci-e 1.1 w/ 2x 6 pin just fine. IMHO the best looking 3870x2 so far has two 6 pin instead of a 8 pin and a 6.

The card I am talking about is the gecube card shown below. It has 4x dvi ports and a much better looking cooler then the reference design. Only neg that I can see is non solid caps.

Image removed due to NDA request.

Thelemac

[phatty2x4]

I wanna see some benchies of 2 of these babies is Crossfire. :beer:

[reboot]

:eek: so, stupid question time...

you get these cards if your game of choice does not support crossfire but yoo play at high res...

and if you are realy nuts you can crossfire them if you have a 1000 watt psu?

[Shiggity]

the 8 pin is not needed to deliver more power it can run fine on pci-e 1.1 w/ 2x 6 pin just fine. IMHO the best looking 3870x2 so far has two 6 pin instead of a 8 pin and a 6.

The card I am talking about is the gecube card shown below. It has 4x dvi ports and a much better looking cooler then the reference design. Only neg that I can see is non solid caps.

lol 4 DVI?

Quad monitor time!

[juane414]

Ouch looks like the x2 is needing a 8 pin PCIE plug as well. I thought that was gone for good... :(

Some of the pics I've seen show two 6-pin connectors.

Actually, looking again, most of them show two 6-pin connectors.

[baggedmazda]

i am set with my 3870 i am not card crazy anymore as i can game on high now. i will check out cards agian when it is time to replace and i am hoping not any time soon

[pillowsack]

Aren't they supposedly releasing today?

[Albuquerque]

Was pretty sure the "official date" was the 24th. I could be mistaken...

[Shiggity]

Review by DailyTech - http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=10429

They speculate that the price of that card would be around 400$, and if thats true thats pretty sweet.

[PhysX]

reminds me of the voodoo5 600 days.... the length anyway, doesn't look very dominating to me, more ppl will be buying it for the novelty than anything, i can pick up another 8800gt and have it stomp the 3870x2...

[Albuquerque]

Review by DailyTech - http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=10429

They speculate that the price of that card would be around 400$, and if thats true thats pretty sweet.

Thanks for the link! :beer: I read it, and it turns out they just wrote a cover story that links back to FPSLabs benchmarks. Wish they'd done their own so we'd have another viewpoint on these...

They do mention the NDA lifts tonight at midnight, although I'm not sure what timezone that midnight is relative to :confused:

[Albuquerque]

More links added thanks to Morgoth and Shark from Beyond3D.

[batboy]

i can pick up another 8800gt and have it stomp the 3870x2...

Well, using that logic, I can pick up a second 3870X2 and stomp your 8800GT SLI.

[Albuquerque]

By looking at older 3870 benchmarks, a 3870CF setup typically outperforms an 8800GT SLI setup anyway. CF seems to scale better than SLI in most games that support both.

[batboy]

Looking at the FPSLAB article, I would call a single 3870X2 vs. 8800GT SLI a draw. They each win a few and lose a few benchmarks. Hardly what I'd call "stomping". If you are a gamer and already have a 8800GTS or GTX, I see no reason to rush out and buy a 3870X2. But as a benchmarker, I plan to get one. Looks like the 3870X2 does quite well in 3Dmark06.

[Albuquerque]

Agreed with Batboy -- 3DMark06 is a strong point of the RV670 core, especially in crossfire. I'm less than 400 points away from a 20K score with a 24-hour-stable-overclocked 8400 processor and a pair of lightly OC'd 3870's on Vista64. A suicide run at 4.5Ghz and 900/2800 clocks would probably net me over 21K; even more if I would step down to an XP32 operating system and strip out some services.

I very much expect a pair of X2's on a heavily OC'd quad to pop into the top 10 (or higher) in the overall 3DMark06 scoreboard in the very near future.

[ChristmasGT]

Curiosly how the heck is the GTS 512 faster than the 8800 GT SLi setup? Since 1 gts is ijust a slightly higher clocked GT with a few extra shaders?

[Albuquerque]

Curiosly how the heck is the GTS 512 faster than the 8800 GT SLi setup? Since 1 gts is ijust a slightly higher clocked GT with a few extra shaders?

Because, just like crossfire, there are many games that don't have driver support for multiple-GPU setups. Thus, some games actually go slower with multiple GPU's versus a single GPU.

Typically, a driver update will "fix" these sorts of situations.

[ChristmasGT]

Yeah but the fps benches counter a lot of the 8800 GT sli reviews which is nuts

[Albuquerque]

Yeah but the fps benches counter a lot of the 8800 GT sli reviews which is nuts

Some of it can be chalked up to different systems; do you have an example of an FPS test that didn't gain from SLI (slower than a GTS) but another bench where the SLI did gain?

[Maverick0984]

Agreed with Batboy -- 3DMark06 is a strong point of the RV670 core, especially in crossfire. I'm less than 400 points away from a 20K score with a 24-hour-stable-overclocked 8400 processor and a pair of lightly OC'd 3870's on Vista64. A suicide run at 4.5Ghz and 900/2800 clocks would probably net me over 21K; even more if I would step down to an XP32 operating system and strip out some services.

I very much expect a pair of X2's on a heavily OC'd quad to pop into the top 10 (or higher) in the overall 3DMark06 scoreboard in the very near future.

Not doubting you, but do you have an ORB link of a near 20k under Vista?

[Albuquerque]

I have this screenshot (http://www.schulzjewelry.com/computer/ocforums/3DM06_850_1250_Penryn4340.JPG) for a 19,378. I played with a bit more overclock (875/1275) last night and hit 19,6xx but it wasn't a big enough change to warrant me making a fuss yet.

I don't own the "professional" version of 3DM06, but you can still see the score I linked above here (http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=14&XLID=0&UID=13589544)

[Brolloks]

Any idea what the $ price tag for this monster will be?

[Albuquerque]

Any idea what the $ price tag for this monster will be?

Retail on the X2 is rumored to be ~$449

[Maverick0984]

I have this screenshot (http://www.schulzjewelry.com/computer/ocforums/3DM06_850_1250_Penryn4340.JPG) for a 19,378. I played with a bit more overclock (875/1275) last night and hit 19,6xx but it wasn't a big enough change to warrant me making a fuss yet.

I don't own the "professional" version of 3DM06, but you can still see the score I linked above here (http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=14&XLID=0&UID=13589544)

Dang, E8400 at 4.3Ghz. Haven't really been keeping up on how those are OC'ing.

Wonder what the 45nm Quad's will OC to.

[Albuquerque]

Dang, E8400 at 4.3Ghz. Haven't really been keeping up on how those are OC'ing.

Wonder what the 45nm Quad's will OC to.

Sadly, the new quads seem to have a much lower FSB wall that's prohibiting massive OC's. Unless of course you've got the money for a Quad Extreme with the fat multipliers... I hope / assume that later spins of the 45nm quads will see much relaxed FSB walls that will open up the overclocks to similar levels.

[BossBorot]

vr zone has a thread up showing retail card and boxes from multiple companies

http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=228845

[Shiggity]

vr zone has a thread up showing retail card and boxes from multiple companies

http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=228845

The asus one looks pretty solid. 4DVI, free game, and improved cooling.

[Brolloks]

Wow, really nice looking cards...time to start selling stuff again :)

[BossBorot]

That Asus card looks like it is not designed well with regards to crossfire 3870x2. It looks like if you have two of them on a mobo with only one extra slot of seperation between physical pci-e 16x slots the primary card will not be able to intake sufficient air. Just keep this in mind before buying if you plan on pushing it hard.

[Albuquerque]

Yeah, with any X2-based card (NV or ATI) you'll want to make sure you have maximum airflow capacity around those cards. Especially if you start hooking them together... I can only imagine the heat that would come out the back of your system with a pair of those Asus cards at max OC playing Crysis :beer:

[Albuquerque]

Lots more reviews posted up this morning...

[Brolloks]

Here is a good collection of reviews
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2147532

[Albuquerque]

Here is a good collection of reviews
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2147532

I've already got all of those plus four more in my first post :beer:

[Shiggity]

Hurry, someone get 2 and crossfire them!

[Shell]

Hurry, someone get 2 and crossfire them!
I'm willing to bet you won't see that working properly for a little while, the X2's drivers are still being cleaned up, I doubt you'll see anything over 1.75x the performance.

But damn. :beer:

[Albuquerque]

There are rumors circulating that several people have ahold of the quadfire beta drivers -- we might see some benches in the next few days.

[Brolloks]

There are rumors circulating that several people have ahold of the quadfire beta drivers -- we might see some benches in the next few days.


As far a s I know only AMD boards have the real quad fire capabilities, for 4 seperate cards I mean, guess the 2 x 3870X2's would also qualify as a quad fire setup.

[MR-FIX-IT]

Finally!!

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you AMD...

Some competition on the block.... and a chance to lower the prices....

[cf79]

So what's the deal with the stock fan placement on some of these cards? On the Saph, PC and MSI it looks like there is one fan on the end that is just channeling air into what looks like a chamber of heat pipes. Is the fan directly over a core?

[batboy]

No, on the reference design cards, there are heatsinks on top the cores. The fan blows air across the sinks.

[mbigna]

is ati really going to have the worlds most powerful graphics card?

nvidia WTF!

No, not really. This Extreme Tech article shows the 3870x2 looking good in synthetic benchmarks, but it pretty much gets spanked by a SINGLE 8800GTS/GTX in actual gaming benchmarks.

Nice try though.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2252547,00.asp

[Albuquerque]

No, not really. This Extreme Tech article shows the 3870x2 looking good in synthetic benchmarks, but it pretty much gets spanked by a SINGLE 8800GTS/GTX in actual gaming benchmarks.

Nice try though.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2252547,00.asp

Depends on whose numbers you trust.

AnandTech didn't find anything like what ExtremeTech did. (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3209&p=5)

Neither did HardwareCanucks (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/4236-ati-radeon-hd3870-x2-1gb-review-9.html)

I'm not saying one is "more right" than another, but to use a single review site is a bit of a slanted approach. The general results from all the review sites suggest that ATi has one up on NV this round, speaking purely in terms of "single card" performance. But it will be short lived, as I'm quite sure NV is rapidly readying the 9800GX2 fleet as we type.

[mbigna]

Depends on whose numbers you trust.

AnandTech didn't find anything like what ExtremeTech did. (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3209&p=5)

Neither did HardwareCanucks (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/4236-ati-radeon-hd3870-x2-1gb-review-9.html)

I'm not saying one is "more right" than another, but to use a single review site is a bit of a slanted approach. The general results from all the review sites suggest that ATi has one up on NV this round, speaking purely in terms of "single card" performance. But it will be short lived, as I'm quite sure NV is rapidly readying the 9800GX2 fleet as we type.

If it takes 2 of ATI's GPU's to = 1 NV GPU, IMO that is still a spanking--even if talking only in terms of performance. This is not even taking into account power and heat issues with 2x the GPUs.

I have similar issues with ATI fans who like to compare an O/Ced 3870 to a non-O/Ced 8800.

[juane414]

No, not really. This Extreme Tech article shows the 3870x2 looking good in synthetic benchmarks, but it pretty much gets spanked by a SINGLE 8800GTS/GTX in actual gaming benchmarks.

Nice try though.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2252547,00.asp

That is... if you consider 3-5 FPS a spanking.

If it takes 2 of ATI's GPU's to = 1 NV GPU, IMO that is still a spanking--even if talking only in terms of performance. This is not even taking into account power and heat issues with 2x the GPUs.

True, but I consider the extra $200 for the 8800GTX a spanking. $200/5fps = $40 per additional frame per second... OUCH!

[Albuquerque]

If it takes 2 of ATI's GPU's to = 1 NV GPU, IMO that is still a spanking--even if talking only in terms of performance. This is not even taking into account power and heat issues with 2x the GPUs.

I have similar issues with ATI fans who like to compare an O/Ced 3870 to a non-O/Ced 8800.

So then, I assume you're going to have the exact same complaints about the 9800GX2?

I don't disagree that two chips is a bit ungainly, but at the same time, the whole concept of a single bigger and bigger and faster and faster chip is going to go the same way that new CPU's have. In other words, at a certain level of complexity, it will be more efficient (in terms of power, production rate, time and cost) to have multiple smaller cores than a single larger core.

We may not be at the end of the single-GPU era, but it is much closer now than it was five years ago. Just like five years ago, multi-core CPU's were essentially non-existant in the consumer space. Keep in mind that multi-core GPU platforms have been in the hands of big business for many years, just as multi-core CPU platforms were too. As the costs continue to make more sense, those multi-GPU arrangements will indeed make their way into the consumer platform.

Just like right now: would you consider someone with a single core CPU cutting edge? Would you consider someone with a dual-core CPU wasteful and deserving of an ass-kicking? Think about it.

[juane414]

Depends on whose numbers you trust.

I agree, Here is another good review.

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/13772
(http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/13772)

[mbigna]

That is... if you consider 3-5 FPS a spanking.

True, but I consider the extra $200 for the 8800GTX a spanking. $200/5fps = $40 per additional frame per second... OUCH!

I'd sure like to know where you went to school...

Radeon HD 3870 X2: ~$450

GeForce 8800 GTX: ~$470-530 (+$20 - +$80)
GeForce 8800 GTS 512: ~$350-400 (-$100 - -$50)

"Let the beatings commence!"

You fanATics really need to get a grip on reality.

[Albuquerque]

Adding to the first post...

[mbigna]

So then, I assume you're going to have the exact same complaints about the 9800GX2?
I expect to have the same complaints about power and heat. As far as price and performance are concerned, I'll have to wait and see the price and performance numbers.

I don't disagree that two chips is a bit ungainly, but at the same time, the whole concept of a single bigger and bigger and faster and faster chip is going to go the same way that new CPU's have. In other words, at a certain level of complexity, it will be more efficient (in terms of power, production rate, time and cost) to have multiple smaller cores than a single larger core.

We may not be at the end of the single-GPU era, but it is much closer now than it was five years ago. Just like five years ago, multi-core CPU's were essentially non-existant in the consumer space. Keep in mind that multi-core GPU platforms have been in the hands of big business for many years, just as multi-core CPU platforms were too. As the costs continue to make more sense, those multi-GPU arrangements will indeed make their way into the consumer platform.

Just like right now: would you consider someone with a single core CPU cutting edge? Would you consider someone with a dual-core CPU wasteful and deserving of an ass-kicking? Think about it.
I don't have a problem with multi-core GPUs or CPUs. But I find it laughable for one to argue that ATi has caught up with NVidia in terms of performance because they strapped two of their flagship GPUs onto one card and it almost equals a single NVidia's flagship GPU. I will, though, certainly admit that a single card solution is much more convenient than a xFire or SLI setup in that it allows simpler installation and removes the headaches involved in getting two cards to work in tandem. It also removes most motherboard restrictions for those that will only allow either xFire OR SLI--but not both (though, you will likely have to invest in a beefier PSU).

[theELVISCERATOR]

Well I just tried to match the Anandtech GPU test on cryis..

on my current rig at my daily driver settings I get 33 fps at 1680x1050......so this card is not as promising as I had hoped...(the X2).

[Albuquerque]

I expect to have the same complaints about power and heat. As far as price and performance are concerned, I'll have to wait and see the price and performance numbers.
Why on earth did you pick that color to reply in? In any case, I wholeheartedly agree. Glad we see eye to eye on this one :)

I don't have a problem with multi-core GPUs or CPUs. But I find it laughable for one to argue that ATi has caught up with NVidia in terms of performance because they strapped two of their flagship GPUs onto one card and it almost equals a single NVidia's flagship GPU. I will, though, certainly admit that a single card solution is much more convenient than a xFire or SLI setup in that it allows simpler installation and removes the headaches involved in getting two cards to work in tandem. It also removes most motherboard restrictions for those that will only allow either xFire OR SLI--but not both (though, you will likely have to invest in a beefier PSU).
I don't necessarily disagree with any of this, but at the same time, performace is what it is. Not everyone likes NVIDIA hardware; you may find this hard to believe, but my previous video card was a 7900GT-on-AGP card from Gainward :) Before that, I had an R350 (9800Pro 256mb) and even earlier, an R300 (9500np 128mb softmodded). If we continue going backwards, previous models were a GF3Ti200, a Voodoo2 SLI and a Riva 128.

The only reason I mention ALL of that is this: I have used a considerable amount of NV hardware over my years of toying in 3D, and I have used at least a few ATI cards also. The ATI's were my personal favorites. for reasons that are likely only relevant to me. That is to say, my opinions don't necessarily dictate the opinions of everyone else.

I moved to the 7900 because I wanted more performance, and the 1900 series just didn't do much for me. But after using that card for two years, I wanted -- no, I needed an ATi video card again -- for all the same opinionated reasons I had before.

This is what ATI is giving those who want their hardware, and I'm not about to tell them to stuff it. The performance of my pair of 3870's is excellent, the video quality is precisely what I expect and want, and I don't have to fidget with NVIDIA's control panel or drivers.

These things may not relate to you personally, but they do to me. So while you might label people as fanATIcs (and you know the NV version of this, don't you? ;) ) it's likely because we really don't want NVIDIA's hardware. Maybe if NVIDIA had picked up the ball, they'd have something better to come back with too rather than a rehashed pair of their flagship processors strapped to a single PCB?

[mbigna]

Why on earth did you pick that color to reply in? In any case, I wholeheartedly agree. Glad we see eye to eye on this one :)
Fixed. (You like cyan better?)
I don't necessarily disagree with any of this, but at the same time, performace is what it is. Not everyone likes NVIDIA hardware; you may find this hard to believe, but my previous video card was a 7900GT-on-AGP card from Gainward :) Before that, I had an R350 (9800Pro 256mb) and even earlier, an R300 (9500np 128mb softmodded). If we continue going backwards, previous models were a GF3Ti200, a Voodoo2 SLI and a Riva 128.

The only reason I mention ALL of that is this: I have used a considerable amount of NV hardware over my years of toying in 3D, and I have used at least a few ATI cards also. The ATI's were my personal favorites. for reasons that are likely only relevant to me. That is to say, my opinions don't necessarily dictate the opinions of everyone else.

I moved to the 7900 because I wanted more performance, and the 1900 series just didn't do much for me. But after using that card for two years, I wanted -- no, I needed an ATi video card again -- for all the same opinionated reasons I had before.

This is what ATI is giving those who want their hardware, and I'm not about to tell them to stuff it. The performance of my pair of 3870's is excellent, the video quality is precisely what I expect and want, and I don't have to fidget with NVIDIA's control panel or drivers.

These things may not relate to you personally, but they do to me. So while you might label people as fanATIcs (and you know the NV version of this, don't you? ;) ) it's likely because we really don't want NVIDIA's hardware. Maybe if NVIDIA had picked up the ball, they'd have something better to come back with too rather than a rehashed pair of their flagship processors strapped to a single PCB?
I have to admit, I do so love to poke (good-natured) fun at both fanATIcs AND NVIDIOTS. For these people, they can't stand to believe that they might not have made the best decision or have the best card. My job is to inject a few facts into their heads and see if they will explode. Let it be known that I never make fun of anyone's purchases--only their logic/conclusions. I love it that we live in a Capitalist country and people can spend their money however they like.

Like you, I have owned my share of both NVidia (which used to be nVidia) and ATi products through the years. I was around when SLI meant "Scan Line Interleave" (RIP 3Dfx). I purchased whatever made the most sense at the time. Historically, NVidia has offered better performance while ATi has offered better image quality. Comparing xFire vs SLI, ATi GPUs seem to scale better for now. At this point in time, however, NVidia has such a performance edge, that I can turn on all the AA, filtering, HDR, (and whatever other eye-candy that is offered), and still get ridiculously high framerates for the games I play at 1900 x 1200 (though, I haven't yet picked up Crysis...). Furthermore, I can do this with a single-slot, non-Flagship GPU for relatively low cost compared to other GPUs.

For me, this is a watershed era as this is the first time that I have actually spent more on a GPU than on the CPU in my rig. Even though I managed to get a EVGA 8800GT SC for $208 from Dell, This is still more than I paid for my E6750 (Fry's deal E6750 + basic ECS mobo for $168--sold the mobo for $35 = ~$133 for CPU).

All that being said, it must be known that I want both ATi and NVidia to succeed--just as I want both Intel and AMD to succeed. Competition drives innovation and lowers prices. Right now, it seems that like AMD, ATi has some catching up to do--and I hope they do it quickly. It looks like NVidia is pulling an Intel by delaying products' introductions and inflating their prices because they don't respect their respective competitors product lines at the moment.

[Mr.Guvernment]

i've had enough of nvidia and there rediculous overpriced pos video cards...its about time ATI got back in the game with there affordable better graphix video cards!!

Ya cause a 8800Gt @ $220-$260 is an overpriced POS..LOL

[Shell]

Ya cause a 8800Gt @ $220-$260 is an overpriced POS..LOL I think he's referring to MTBF.

Otherwise, qft, lol.

[Albuquerque]

Review from Guru3D has been added...

[vixro]

Well I just tried to match the Anandtech GPU test on cryis..

on my current rig at my daily driver settings I get 33 fps at 1680x1050......so this card is not as promising as I had hoped...(the X2).

Doesn't anandtech use Vista and a quad core?

[Zycomia]

Anyone care to comment on the move to GDDR3 @ 900 instead of GDDR4 @ 1125? Would that not make 2 3870 crossfired a better option?

[batboy]

The 3870X2 has a faster GPU than the 3870, but DDR3 RAM instead of DDR4. Sort of evens it out. I really wish ATI had used DDR4 memory in the X2. It's rather puzzling why they didn't. Guess it was a cost thing.

[Shell]

The 3870X2 has a faster GPU than the 3870, but DDR3 RAM instead of DDR4. Sort of evens it out. I really wish ATI had used DDR4 memory in the X2. It's rather puzzling why they didn't. Guess it was a cost thing. It was exactly that, 1GB of GDDR4 would cost a lot more and you need a lot of chips for that card.

I'm hoping someone will roll out an improved 3870X2 soon with GDDR4(and maybe 2GB), then I'll get one.

[Anubis_386]

I read on Fudzilla that a GDDR4 version of the X2 is in the pipe line ..

[WildMonkey]

If they were in the $300 range they would sell like hot cakes, but alas they are just an expensive small step-up from the G92's.

[Zycomia]

The 3870X2 has a faster GPU than the 3870, but DDR3 RAM instead of DDR4. Sort of evens it out.

Even if the X2 has a higher stock clock, if one were to overclock the cards, I'm guessing the X2 cores would have about the same limit as the normal 3870s right?
So that being said, wouldn't Crossfire still be a (much) better option? It is easier to cool individual cards, known working voltmods and much faster ram...

[batboy]

Volt mods are now figured out for the 3870X2.

http://www.quantum-force.net/tutorials/T000000006/

The DDR4 memory of the regular 3870 is clocked faster, but I believe the timings are not as tight compared to the DDR3 of the 3870X2. At least that seems to be the opinion of some over at the XS forum.

The benchmarkers are breaking records with the 3870X2. So, I'm not sure 2 crossfire 3870 cards would be a much better option. It's probably about 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

[Albuquerque]

Given equal modding treatment, I'd still think a pair of 3870's will outperform a 3870X2. But there's still the motherboard interface to consider, and of course all the "randomness" that makes overclocking a bit of a hair-puller. On individual 3870 cards, you might find one that's less overclockable even at stock, so you sell it and buy another (and another, and another, ...) until you get the one that works best. On an X2, if only one core is a little grouchy and the second core is awesome, you gotta sell both to swap out. :(

However, I'd also have to say that a pair of 3870X2's modded like the above would very likely do FAR better than any sort of quad-crossfire on individual 3870 cards. I'm sure we'll see some UBER-benches of that kinda thing shortly.

I also have a deep-down desire to see someone get a quadfire motherboard (PCIE 8x lanes times four) and throw two 3870's and two 3870X2's into the mix. You ask why? Because even though each 3870X2 has a single CF connector, each 3870 card has two. So you put the 3870's in the middle two slots, and the 3870X2's in the outside slots. Link one 3870 with it's neighboring 3870X2, and then in the middle use the second connector on the 3870's to link them both together.

Eeeeeevil :beer:

[BmanG17]

If it takes 2 of ATI's GPU's to = 1 NV GPU, IMO that is still a spanking--even if talking only in terms of performance. This is not even taking into account power and heat issues with 2x the GPUs.

I have similar issues with ATI fans who like to compare an O/Ced 3870 to a non-O/Ced 8800.
That'd be similar to them example of a 4cylinder car that comes close to beating a v8. "Well I have 4 less cylinders, so technically i still win, because it was close". No, you don't. At the end of the day its the V8 that finished first, and that is all that really matters.

It was a good idea for AMD because the RnD is much less than a new GPU, they have a competitive product, and its not a thrown together hunk of **** because its a dual GPU card done right.

AT the end of the day for the next few weeks it's hands down the fastest thing regardless of how they did it. Run what ya brung.


Yes i understand AMD/ATi really needs to get thier **** together to actually be competitive with nvidias next series of GPU. I understand that fully. I'm just obviously pointing out AMD found a nice cost effective way of taking the crown for a short time and it shouldnt be so quickly denounced because its a dual GPU card. It's done right and effective for 95% of the population that don't have a crossfire mobo. The performance of this card is only going to increase more and more with each optimized crossfire driver release. Not to mention it also gets AMD to really optimize crossfire drivers which will only help in the long run when SLI and crossfire become more of a reality in the mainstream.

[mbigna]

That'd be similar to them example of a 4cylinder car that comes close to beating a v8. "Well I have 4 less cylinders, so technically i still win, because it was close". No, you don't. At the end of the day its the V8 that finished first, and that is all that really matters.

It was a good idea for AMD because the RnD is much less than a new GPU, they have a competitive product, and its not a thrown together hunk of **** because its a dual GPU card done right.

AT the end of the day for the next few weeks it's hands down the fastest thing regardless of how they did it. Run what ya brung.

Ah, I see another fanboi got his feathers ruffled.

Your car analogy would be fine--except for the fact that ATi's 8 cylinder LOST to NVidia's 4 cylinder. Also, in case you missed it, they never compared the x2 to the ULTRA, just the GTX.

spanked++;

[dizzy0113]

I got the X2. It's close enough to the Ultra for me and like $200+ less. I gladly spent that $200 on an extra 2 gigs of RAM (especially since I went Vista).

[BmanG17]

Ah, I see another fanboi got his feathers ruffled.

Your car analogy would be fine--except for the fact that ATi's 8 cylinder LOST to NVidia's 4 cylinder. Also, in case you missed it, they never compared the x2 to the ULTRA, just the GTX.

spanked++;

my feathers aren't ruffled, I dont own either card and won't be purchasing an ATi or Nvidia soon as my PC is garbage at the moment and I am currently putting money into my car. Twin disk clutch > pc for me.

I just like how ATi went about it and don't feel it should be so quickly denounced; I simply gave my opinons. Do as you wish, its not going to ruin my day.

It also would seem you are the biased as you got so defensive to my post which was never really offensive. That and the fact I see alot of benchmarks have both the GTX and ULTRA, where have you been reading?

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=11520&page=5
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3209&p=7
http://techreport.com/articles.x/13967/7
http://www.fpslabs.com/reviews/video/amd-radeon-hd-3870-x2-review/page-6
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1279/8/page_8_benchmarks_f_e_a_r/index.html

and don't forget alot of the reason it's losing is because of the drivers. This isn't a single gpu that will gain a few fps from tweaks, its a crossfire card and crossfire has a wayyyyys to go in really getting the drivers to where they need to be. With that said, THE Same goes for SLi and we should see goodgains in driver development for the 9800gx2 ALSO. Hence the reason for me liking this card and the future 9800gx2, because it will really force nvidia and ATi to get on to developing crossfire/SLi drivers to where they should be instead of the after-thought they have been

[mbigna]

AT the end of the day for the next few weeks it's hands down the fastest thing regardless of how they did it.

and don't forget alot of the reason it's losing is because of the drivers.

I just wish you guys would just make up your minds.

"Better break out the duct tape--I think he's gonna BLOW!"

[BmanG17]

I just wish you guys would just make up your minds.

"Better break out the duct tape--I think he's gonna BLOW!"

I love how I'm the biased one when you refuse to look at the reviews you claim don't exist, and then take my wording horribly out of context?

your funny

[batboy]

It's pretty much fact that the 3870X2 wins in most benchmarks against the Ultra. A few games like Crysis that don't scale well with crossfire are still dominated by the 8800 series, and the nvidia folks are always quick to point that out.

It's also well known the ATI drivers are immature and barely working for the 3870X2. Once the Cat 8.2 and especially the 8.3 are released, you'll start seeing the 3870X2 come alive. By that time though, nvidia will be releasing the 9800GX2 and the tide will probably change again.

[Brolloks]

Come on guys, stop arguing about it and come look for yourself in my review :)

[phatty2x4]

Well, I did it. I ordered the Visiontek 3870x2 along with some upgrades for my laptop and a 2nd Viewsonic vx2235wm(22" wide). I already have my triple monitor stand from Dell, so I guess I need to get that assembled before the 2nd monitor arrives. When I can afford it, I'm gonna grab a 2nd 3870x2 and a 3rd 22" viewsonic for some Triplehead2go action. :beer:

[Omsion]

Hmm...don't see HOCP's review on that list.
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ1NCwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0

They also did a follow-up discussing methodology, since their conclusion was radically different compared to almost evrey other site.
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ2MSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
That discussion on methodology may be deserving of more discussion elsewhere as well.

[dizzy0113]

What drivers is everyone using for this? It seems the latest official version is 8.451 and there is some hotfix (http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=31625). I have also seen some beta drivers on guru3d.

[satandole666]

Hmm...don't see HOCP's review on that list.
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ1NCwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0

They also did a follow-up discussing methodology, since their conclusion was radically different compared to almost evrey other site.
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ2MSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
That discussion on methodology may be deserving of more discussion elsewhere as well.

So pretty much the "real world results" say that a single 8800GTX is the better card? I can understand that.

I don't take the article as biased at all. I think they followed a proper testing methodology. When they stepped away they went right back to proper methods (different settings in Crysis originally, then compared properly).

However, I will say that people should evaluate how similar their situation is to the methodology used before making a decision based on that article. Do you game at really high resolutions (expensive LCDs/CRT)? Do you max out AA/AF and eyecandy and run at <40fps? Do you play games that don't benefit from multiple GPUs? Etc etc.

If so, this is a great read. If not, try to find a review that tests in the same way you test and/or play.

Me personally, I game at 1600x1200 with settings as high as I can get them without studdering. I'll wait for mature drivers to make a decision, but if I had to pick today I'd probably get a GTX over an X2 (or a GT/GTS over either).

Nice article though.

[phatty2x4]

Been playing with mine, along with my 2nd Viewsonic vx2235wm monitor. Loving it so far, big step from the x1800xt!

http://www.projectrocco.com/3dmark_06_x2.jpg

And the "multi-monitor gaming" feature doesn't work like a TH2go, so I just ordered one, lol. Now I just need a 3rd monitor.....

[phatty2x4]

LOL! Mine just died about 15 mins ago. Time for an RMA. :bang head

[dizzy0113]

Which brand did you buy?

[BmanG17]

he said visiontek in an older post ;)

[phatty2x4]

Yeah, it's Visiontek. I was on my desktop and my monitor went black and the fans on the video card fluctuated. There was also a red light that was lit up on the video card when it died. I tried a different set of power cables and no dice. At first it'd work on boot-up, then the screen would go black, but now it won't even boot and it beeps at me.
I popped in my x1800xt and all is fine. No big deal though, I need to focus on school today anyway(taking game design at art institute).
But on a good note, the 3870x2 eats up every game I throw at it and spits it out with ease. Even Vanguard runs INSANELY good and that's saying alot, because that game eats up systems.