Holy crap!! Copper water block wonky

[Rickster]

http://aycu40.webshots.com/image/43639/2006221745938401919_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2006221745938401919)

http://aycu19.webshots.com/image/42018/2006217236001891428_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2006217236001891428)

http://aycu15.webshots.com/image/42774/2006217210856762594_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2006217210856762594)

I just soaked it in vinegar for a night and in the morning I woke up, the vinegar turned blue, the copper parts were rough, when I wiped them it gave off a yellowish-brown colour and now its stuck with this greyish copper colour. And I was so stupid that after giving them a wash I forgot to dry them it started looking like the statue of liberty.

Any suggestions how to clean this up and remove the roughness? Why did this happen?

[Jas]

Oxidation.

[thideras]

Sand blast them? :shrug:

[Ben333]

Oxidation.

I think he knows that :rolleyes: And to answer the question:
Sand paper ( 400 grit - 800 grit )

And why did it happen? When copper gets wet it corrodes. This is why the statue of liberty is green, because it is outdoors and gets wet.

[thideras]

I think he knows that :rolleyes: And to answer the question:
Sand paper ( 400 grit - 800 grit )There is the problem though, it would take an extremely long time to sand the inside of the apogee block.

[Ben333]

There is the problem though, it would take an extremely long time to sand the inside of the apogee block.
Maybe using a dremel? If you have the wire brush (the disk shaped thing that you can attach to a dremel to do polishing/sanding) At first glance that didn't look like an apogee... but now I see those are diamond shaped pins. hell even the standard cutoff wheel. if anything it would only rough up the block and might even make it better :p

[Jas]

Maybe using a dremel? If you have the wire brush (the disk shaped thing that you can attach to a dremel to do polishing/sanding) At first glance that didn't look like an apogee... but now I see those are diamond shaped pins. hell even the standard cutoff wheel. if anything it would only rough up the block and might even make it better :p

That might harm the pins.

copper is pretty maleable.

I would go for a soft head tooth brush, and some mild acid. Lemon juice even.

EDIT: scratch the acid, it might clean off the oxidization, but it might end up oxidizing it again.

[Rickster]

Yeah I knew it was oxidization. It's just so bad I didn't know whether it was oxidization anymore.

I'm just worried to lap the bugger. I feel lapping achieves a less flat surface than what Swiftec has given me.

Wait a minute, wire brush will be able to get into them little metal things (you know the thing to create turbulence when water passes through so better cooling efficiency; it's real late)

[Ben333]

yeah the wire brush should get between the pins. and in my experience with copper its not as fragile as to be damaged by a wire brush.

[Rickster]

Oh reason why I soaked the blocks was because when I took apart my water blocks, where the water makes contact, it was completely black, like this is my 4th time doing this and it was my first seeing this.

So even a light touch vinegar and brushing with a toothbrush wouldn't help. Then it got the soak.

Hmmm.. Ok I'll try with the lemon juice tomorrow. Will this work for the surface where it's totally flat? Last resort is definately lapping.

[Ben333]

I think you can use coke also. If the dremel makes you uneasy then you can always use a hand held wire brush.

[Jas]

Coke is prett yhigh in citric acid, and is actually quite the cleaner. You'll need to rinse it off well with distilled water afterwards to remove and sugar residue.

[UBERCOOL]

Can I ask why you want to clean it? Everything that I have read says that oxidation doesn't degrade performance so there is really no reason that you NEED to clean it. Unless it is somehow very visible in your computer. I have an old TDX that is really oxidized but you can't even tell when it is in the system. I have tried cleaning a few times and whatever I do is only a temporary fix and feels like a waste of time because every time I use it the same thing happens.

[Ben333]

I just opened my apogee and found grass... like from outside lol

[EmAn]

I just opened my apogee and found grass... like from outside lol

now you have been watercooling how long?

[Ben333]

for a while but only about a year with a real block, etc lol. The grass was probably in a bucket I used to store something in... idk right now the block was on my shelf and not to be used for about a month but I decided to clean it anyway.

[JamesXP]

GRASS?

You scare me sometimes ben...

[Diggrr]

Instead of using a wire brush, I'd use comet cleanser and an old toothbrush. Works fabulous at cleaning off the tarnish and even the heavier oxidation.
Rinse very well with the hottest water your tap can provide, then give it a splash of distilled water for good measure.
Nice and tidy.

And yes, you can use the comet/brush on the flat cpu side too. It may change how fine the surface had been lapped, but it will not change the flatness of it (IMHO the most important aspect).

Grass is one I hadn't heard before, and I thought I'd heard it all....:beer:

[sunrunner20]

My only worry is the rough surface. I would try the cleaning methods people have listed here first on a small section very carefully.


If its not working very well there is always citranox (http://www.alconox.com/static/section_top/gen_catalog.asp#Anchor-7465)
Its kick ass stuff. No kidding, returned my WW to near perfect condition(had corroded). Also, no need to buy a whole gallon of the stuff. Just get a sample from them.


PS: how blue? baby blue, or sharpish green blue. The color density just tells us how _much_ of the copper you just disolved off your block... if its darkblue(almost green) chances are you are going to need to lap the block with some high grit sand paper- to remove the uneven surface left by the pitting.

[PearlJammzz]

bah, you guys don't watch enough infomercials.... CLR it!

[Jas]

^^ just might work....

[sunrunner20]

bah, you guys don't watch enough infomercials.... CLR it!

Tried it with my WW. Does not work.

[clocker2]

If copper is tarnished, boil article in a pot of water with 1 tablespoon salt and 1 cup white vinegar for several hours. Wash with soap in hot water. Rinse and dry.
Actually works...

[Rickster]

First off, UBERCOOL, I'm not so worried about the tarnished copper. I'm worried about the flatness of it because when it "was" tarnished it "had" goosebumps. To answer some people's questions. When I left it in the vinegar before, the vinegar turned baby blue. Is this the worst sign? I always use a toothbrush to brush the block while it's in vinegar but it doesn't help. I tried the suggestions you guys posted. Lemonjuice, Sprite (didn't have Coke in the cupboards). Nah, it didn't work. The lemon juice worked a bit but it was not great. What did work though was the vinegar + salt + boiling water. I left the blocks in the boiling solution. After about 30 minutes the goosebumps dissapeared and it wasn't tarnished. It's a weird colour now, not like when it was brand new, that's for sure. I rinsed with tap water (no soap) and then flushed it with distilled water.

I'm just wondering whether I should have rinsed it with soap.

Thanks guys.

[sunrunner20]

The light blue signals that only a little bit of copper dissolved. So I would not worry too much. And nope- if you rinsed it well, you don't need any soap.

[Jas]

Congratualtions, you made turquiose!

You sure you don't have aluminum in your system?

[gigabit]

Get some warm water and ciggarette ashes and make a paste and brush it on and scrub off fthe oxidation with an old toothbrush(it works seriously)

[1100XXman]

The vinegar contains Acetic acid which should etch away the copper oxide. Was the vineagar that you used very old or did you dilute it with water?

Here is what I would do. Get a stronger version of acetic acid. You can probably pick it up at a university chem lab shop. Or you can boil the vinegar to make it stronger (evaporates water). Soak parts in strong acetic acid until oxide is removed. Remove parts from acetic acid and immediately rinse with isopropyl alcohol blow air dry. Mix up a 30% Ammonia (household) 30%Hydrogen Peroxide(household), 30% distilled water solution to slightly etch the copper on your blocks to get them very clean (only takes about 3 seconds). Follow this with an Alcohol rinse and blow dry. Lastly lap the bottom side of the blocks to get them flat again.

-dave

[Rickster]

No aluminium in my loop - no. MCW60, Apogee, BIP, MCP pump. On a side note, when I rinsed he blocks in lemon juice the colour of the juice turned green.

Sorry I don't smoke so I really don't know where to find ciggarette ashes. Will keep this in mind though.

Was the vinegar old? Errm 2 months old. I don't remember mixing the vinegar with water the first time round. It was pure vinegar. So you're saying that after the acetic acid soak, I should make that 30-30-30 solution? What's it for if the acetic acid can remove tarnish? Would going straight into that 30-30-30 solution and leave the acetic acid aside be better?

[1100XXman]

No aluminium in my loop - no. MCW60, Apogee, BIP, MCP pump. On a side note, when I rinsed he blocks in lemon juice the colour of the juice turned green.

Sorry I don't smoke so I really don't know where to find ciggarette ashes. Will keep this in mind though.

Was the vinegar old? Errm 2 months old. I don't remember mixing the vinegar with water the first time round. It was pure vinegar. So you're saying that after the acetic acid soak, I should make that 30-30-30 solution? What's it for if the acetic acid can remove tarnish? Would going straight into that 30-30-30 solution and leave the acetic acid aside be better?

The 30-30-30 solution is a weak copper etch and should make the copper bright and shiny like new. It will however slightly etch it so thats why I recommended to lap the blocks after. I just noticed that you already removed the oxidation with the vinegar and salt plus boiling water. If it looks OK to you now then I would just go with it. If it is still a little off looking you can try the 30-30-30 solution to make it that bright copper color again.

[Moto7451]

I just soaked it in vinegar for a night and in the morning I woke up, the vinegar turned blue, the copper parts were rough, when I wiped them it gave off a yellowish-brown colour and now its stuck with this greyish copper colour. And I was so stupid that after giving them a wash I forgot to dry them it started looking like the statue of liberty.

Any suggestions how to clean this up and remove the roughness? Why did this happen?

You soaked it for too long or the mixture was too strong. Probably both.

I think he knows that :rolleyes: And to answer the question:
Sand paper ( 400 grit - 800 grit )

And why did it happen? When copper gets wet it corrodes. This is why the statue of liberty is green, because it is outdoors and gets wet.

No, it gets corroded by salt water. Distilled won't cause this because there's nothing in it to cause a galvanic reaction.



I just opened my apogee and found grass... like from outside lol

Thats a new one.

bah, you guys don't watch enough infomercials.... CLR it!

That works on Calcium, Lime, and Rust (which is oxidation of iron and not copper), and not because it reverses a Red/Ox reaction (won't put the metal back), it just removes those types of stains. It will remove any lime or calcium deposits from hard water or the radiator if tap water had ever been used on any of the parts.

The light blue signals that only a little bit of copper dissolved. So I would not worry too much. And nope- if you rinsed it well, you don't need any soap.

Indeed, he performed a simple chem lab project to make Copper Acetate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper%28II%29_acetate).

The vinegar contains Acetic acid which should etch away the copper oxide. Was the vineagar that you used very old or did you dilute it with water?

Here is what I would do. Get a stronger version of acetic acid....

The problem I have with this is that it sounds like we're running in circles around the same tree just to get hit in the face with a low lying branch... again.

Skip the acid, go to your hardware store and pick up Never Dull (http://www.nevrdull.com/). It's acting agent is Kerosene which will not further corrode metal.

This is what I use because it's also used by people who restore museum pieces, and you'd think they'd know something about preserving things ;). At work we use it to remove oxidation from swords, knives, axes, etc and their fittings... i.e. the Copper or Brass habaki on Katanas and it works great. It's cheap (like $4), doesn't oxidize the metal further, takes a few moments to remove the oxidation (as opposed to hours soaking), and will free you from the same cycle of madness that got you in this spot ;)

Then lap the base and all will be well. I'd suggest "flossing" the block with the Never Dull (you can twist the cotton into a "thread").

[imposter]

Whats the point in putting it in vinegar i dont understand that..

[GTFouts]

I have a question. What about TarnX? It does such a beautiful job on my copper pots and pennys and such and its made for copper cleaning.

[RangerXLT8]

Coke is prett yhigh in citric acid, and is actually quite the cleaner. You'll need to rinse it off well with distilled water afterwards to remove and sugar residue.
I second that we use Coke to clean copper pennies....

[Rickster]

Moto - yes, I think you are very right about soaking it too long. I remember once I soaked my northbridge block the first time I got it overnight. The problem appeared but not very drastic. Vinegar wasn't blue though. That never dull product sounds good. I'm just hoping I can find it here. If I can't, you said that the agent is of kerosene. Would kerosene do the job? I'm just worried with using vinegar for prolong periods. The word "corroding" doesn't sound good on the blocks.

I wouldn't want to use products like brasso and such, it leaves residue behind, = not good for copper to heat source contact.