Radeon 8500 or Geforce3Ti200

[dj_unforgetable]

I'm sure that this topic has been surfaced time and again, but now I want to get a final and unanimous answer from you guys. I play a LOT of OpenGl & DirectX games, but mostly OpenGl like Counterstike and Max Payne. Now I wanna buy a new video card and am in the market for either of these. Before you reply to this, I want you guys to think of everything possible like Drivers, Tech Support, Future ect. Both are around the same price round her in Canada (Asus 8200Ti200 goes for about $309 CDN and Radeon 8500 for about $319 CDN). What a really thoroughly thought out answer please. Which one should I get?

[RainMaQer]

IMHO... if your going to spend that much... get the radeon.... It outperforms the GF3 Ti200...Of course if you want a ti200, other companies sell for less... asus is usually expensive... Just my $0.02

[dj_unforgetable]

Alright, here is an update on my situation. I was reading a few articles around here and found out that I have to buy only the retail Radeons because the OEM ones hae some clock frequency deffiency or something. Having said that, the price of a Retail Radeon 8500 is $395 (which is friggin DAMN expensive). There are a few other Geforce3Ti200 here, there is an MSI Geforce3Ti200 one, and a Herucles Geforce3Ti200 one that sells for slightly less. The MSI goes for $299 and the Hercules for $314 i belive. What should i do? The Radeon 7500 goes for $223 retail but i heard that it is not as good in graphics as even the Geforce2 Ti ..... I may be misinformed, pelase enlighten me, fill me in. Give me suggestions on what to do?

[Cisco Kid]

The below was pasted in from a response I gave to another guy with similar questions to yours

The 7500 is superior in graphics compared to the G2 Ti200, it is also faster and most reviews back this up. It is an excellent buy in Canada right now at futureshop.ca for $199, I do not feel the 8500 here in Canada is worth double the price

Compared to Ultra Geforce cards speed wise it is very close depending on the review you read and what the system is they use. From what I have found when overclocked and compared to an overclocked Ultra, the 7500 is the faster card and it offers newer technology.

It is the better choice for 2D Video and dvd playback as well as the only card that offers S-Video out at 1024x768.

Here is a link that has done the most recent test on the 7500 and 8500. The system used was a P4 2.0 GHZ. 7500 does better on an AMD system even. The conclusion is interesting

http://www.sharkeyextreme.com/hardw...icle.php/932821


In the article below they say the 7500 is clearly faster than the Ultra and has the better engine

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/H...7500/index.html

Note this test was done with older drivers, ther are 2 newer drivers that greatly increase performance, an 8500 driver thats beta that works for the 7500 and an Omega 1086 tweaked version of ATI 3286 or '76 whichever one I am not 100% sure
The Ultra does produce higher framerates overall but gets beat at the higher resiolutions but the quality it produces is not as good as the 7500, this is a common find in most of the articles comparing the cards.

Quote
"Interestingly, note the Radeon 7500 beats out the GeForce2 Ultra at the higher resolutions. This proves that the ATI did their homework and prevented the huge decrease in capabilities that have plaued the GeForce at higher resolutions! "

IMHO I think the 7500 is the better buy cause

1) it is cheaper, bargain at $107US online 4199 canada at www.futureshop.ca till next week compared to I think $145-150US+ for an Ultra, (heck spend $25 more get a G3 Ti200 and spend $40US more get a OEM 8500 that simply smokes once you flash to the retail specs)
2) newer technolgy
3) no driver problems AT ALL
4) TV out at 1024x768 no other card does this, support of HDTV and dual moitor
5) best 2D video and dvd playback
6) DX8 support although not for all features

Really good overclocking potential. Check madonion.com they have the card ranked 5th for whatever that means LOL.

Anyways there is some feedback to chew on I just think it is a flat out better card for cheaper, and I buy by my wallet if performance can back up a good solid price, and in this case it does.

My sig is below and here is a link to 3D mark 2K1 to compare if your friends system is relatively similar in cpu/ram type(ddr) and mobo plus OS. I am hoping to break 5200-5300 with some more tweaking. The score was done with a 342/522 my best overclock on the card has been 342/562 but it will not complete 3D mark2K1 yet I can game with this setting, that one I am still trying to figure out!!

If you were to buy an 8500 I would buy retail, also www.atic.ca has good OEM's from what I have heard but it is a crapshoot

In UT I ike95+

http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?2313195

Cisco Kid

:D

[iggybaseball]

how is the 7500 for the serious gamer?

[dj_unforgetable]

That is also what I would like to know, for hardcore gamers, how is it? Also, i wanna clear something up, what are the clock speeds for the 7500 and the 8500? Ive heard that the 7500 & 8500 have around the same clock frequencies around 270 for 7500 and 275 for 8500 and 230 for memory for both cards (retail). Once hearing this, i went to tomshardware.com and looked at the Geforce3Ti200 shootout (which included the Radeon 7500 & 8500) and in almost ALL of them, the Radeon 7500 fell behind the Geforce3Ti200 (Asus) except for the 3dMark scores. I am a semi-hardcore gamer, which one is best? Which one is best for the future? What are the clock frequencies? Fill me in. And if the speeds of the 7500 & 8500 are around the same, what makes the $150 difference in prices?

[Taylor]

I think the competitor to the Radeon 8500 is the GeF3 Ti500 rather than the 200

[Warlord2]

all those cards above are awesome hardcore gaming cards

I think if I had to choose between the radeon 7500 and gf3 ti200 I would get the radeon sences it is better bang for you buck and has better graphics in both 2d and 3d


I have a gf2 ultra right now and it runs great in every game to this date and probly for months to come so dont feel like you have to get the fastest card out in order to play even the most demanding games

[tainice]

get Hercules, it can oc very very well, around 220/500, and its oc ability helps it to compete even with a Ge3 in selected benchmarks. i would, and i am going to. anyway, just my 2 cents.

[wildone]

I think I would just go with the gf3 because it is more compatible and has less issues with games ,if thats what you want it for,the ti 200 is very good for it price ,you can overclock most of then to default gf3 ti 500's anyway,and the way nvidia releases drivers,I bet performance just keeps getting better,my current 3d mark score is nearly 8k ;)

wildone

[dj_unforgetable]

But hold on, if the Radeon 8500 OEM comes at a slower speed than the Retail, can't I just overclock it to the 275/275 of the Retail version? It should be easy cause its such a small margin from the 230 that comes with the OEM right? ALso, the Geforce3Ti200 comes with a 200MHZ core right? if the Radeon 8500 is 250 already, doesn't that make the Radeon 8500 beter that the Geforce3Ti200? or Geforce3Ti500 ?

[RainMaQer]

actually the ti200 has a core speed of 175... mine's at 220/500... see sig below...

[-Exi|e-]

Read Silver's post for Radeon matters, they explain alot about the OEM and Retail issues. As for a 7500 being faster than a Ti200, i might have to argue about that... The 7500 is DX7 not DX8 unlike the Radeon 8500 and the Geforce 3 Ti series. If you really want a card for gaming, get either the Ti200 Ti500 or the 8500.

[-Exi|e-]

Originally posted by dj_unforgetable
But hold on, if the Radeon 8500 OEM comes at a slower speed than the Retail, can't I just overclock it to the 275/275 of the Retail version? It should be easy cause its such a small margin from the 230 that comes with the OEM right? ALso, the Geforce3Ti200 comes with a 200MHZ core right? if the Radeon 8500 is 250 already, doesn't that make the Radeon 8500 beter that the Geforce3Ti200? or Geforce3Ti500 ?

The core of the Ti200 is 175Mhz and 400Mhz for the memory, but you can easily get this card to Ti500 speeds without any problems. I got mine as far as 250/520, thats faster than a Ti500 (240/500). The Ti200's are VERY overclockable and will give you a nice speed increase in games.

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by -Exi|e-
Read Silver's post for Radeon matters, they explain alot about the OEM and Retail issues. As for a 7500 being faster than a Ti200, i might have to argue about that... The 7500 is DX7 not DX8 unlike the Radeon 8500 and the Geforce 3 Ti series. If you really want a card for gaming, get either the Ti200 Ti500 or the 8500.

Here is the deal and a good article on the 7500 read the conclusion . In ho anyone who has considered the 7500 for 4102 US online and $199 canadian for another week at futureshop.ca will be very happy with their purchase

http://www.sharkeyextreme.com/hardware/videocards/article.php/932821

7500 is not faster than a G3 Ti200 it is slower . 7500 is faster than a G2 Ti200 and pretty equal to Ultras althought he Ultras provide a few more fps the detail and quality is no where near as good as the 7500. Once you overclock the 7500 it is faster than overclocked Ultras and G2Ti200 from comparisons I have made with similar systems of others to my own. But this is all system dependant as well as driver dependant plus a bunch of other factors, so Imagine some will disagree and thats cool too

There are no driver issues with the 7500, the 8500 issues are pretty much sorted out. The 7500 pice of $102 online makes it the best/bang for the buck imho cause an 8500 at double the cost does not give you double the performance or a Ti500 at 3 x the cost what it will give you is a longer lifespan before you need to buy another one, but by then new technoilgy will be out and it will be cheaper you decide there.

Next you move to the G3Ti200 for about 155-1$65 US then to OEM 8500 at around $185-200 US then to retail 8500 at around $220-250US then to the G3Ti500 for $300+

The 7500 DOES support DX8 although not all the features. The only cards that I know for sure support all DX8 features are the G3 , G3Ti500 ,8500 and Radeon 64 DDR vivo ( I am not sure about the Ultra or G3Ti200/ G2Ti200)


7500 comes retail with 290 clk/230 mem (460) I have mine running at 342/522 but it goes alot higher in the mem area with proper case cooling. At Madonion.com there are retail 7500's at 350/580 reaching 6000 pts in 3D mark2K1 .

Retail 8500 comes with 275clk/275mem. Here is a recent review of the 8500 and 7500 , the 7500 will fill the need for most gamers I feel even the fairly serious gamer. For me I am getting 95+ fps in UT plenty fast enough. 2D video is very good it offers TV out at 1024x768 and great DVD playback. It will last for a good year easy and will meet the needs of I would say 80% of those here in the forum

The 8500' competition is the G3 Ti500 and at this time with the latest ATI driver they are very equal to each other in performance, slight edge to the Ti500 but for price/performance the 8500 wins hands down (retail that is), but you may have to deal with driver issues and if you do not want to then buy a 7500, or G3 ti200 for on average $60-70US more which is a nice chunk of coin to the average puter head. cause the best buy deal of $99 is long gone.....

Also btw cheapest retail 8500 in Canada $389 I believe at www.anitec.ca cheapest G3Ti500 is around $485 for the MSI G3 Ti500 at www.atic.ca give or take a few bucks, when a vid card approaches $500 that is way to F***** much

Cisco Kid:cool: got me all going now LOL alll in fun boys

[-Exi|e-]

Cisco, im sorry bro, thats the second time i got the G3Ti200 confused with the G2Ti200, sometimes i read too fast. I agree, if your thinking of getting the G2Ti200 instead of the 7500, you might wanna chk out the 7500 before you buy anything. First off, its newer than the G2 even if its clocked higher, and for now, the price on the 7500 is pretty good, 199$ (http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10010936&catid=10524&logon=&langid=EN&dept=1&WLBS=fs%2Dweb5&biasid=EF7A7707418F42A3B7FD1FB24D97398A)

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by -Exi|e-
Cisco, im sorry bro, thats the second time i got the G3Ti200 confused with the G2Ti200, sometimes i read too fast. I agree, if your thinking of getting the G2Ti200 instead of the 7500, you might wanna chk out the 7500 before you buy anything. First off, its newer than the G2 even if its clocked higher, and for now, the price on the 7500 is pretty good, 199$ (http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10010936&catid=10524&logon=&langid=EN&dept=1&WLBS=fs%2Dweb5&biasid=EF7A7707418F42A3B7FD1FB24D97398A)


NP Exile no offence taken, Most people do get the G3 Ti200 and G2 Ti200 mixed up, the G3 Ti200 is equal in most cases to an OEM 8500 clked at 25/250 although the 8500 offers more technology.

POost a link to your 3D Mark2K1 score I would like to compare, I know your Ti200 G3 is faster but I just wann see by how much. I just finished playing some UT on "adept" level one on one and I was getting average of 103 fps at 110% gamespeed play. Not too damn shabby at all. Yep I bought my 7500 for $200 Canadian imho a deal , can't wait to try the TV out at 1024x768 to my HDTV 40" Tosh widescreen !!!

Cisco Kid :cool:

[dj_unforgetable]

Alright, but i've heard that the Geforce3Ti200 is much better than the Radeon 7500 (according to TomsHardware.com). ALso, how is the OEM Radeon 8500? is it good? is it much different from the Retail? i can get it (Radeon 8500 OEM) for around $342 CDN which is just a little more expensive than the Asus Geforce3Ti200 whic is $309. Does it over clock as well? Is the OEM Radeon 8500 (without overclocking) better than a Geforce3 or Ti500?

Also, here in Canada, the OEM Radeon is $319 and the Retail is $342, does that make much of a difference?

But i can get the OEM Radeon 8500 from another place for $319

[RainMaQer]

Hey Cisco... compare to my GF3 TI 200
Compare URL: http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?2347069

[-Exi|e-]

6974 (http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?2313028)

UT
91.13fps in DirectX
97.06fps in OpenGL:confused:
all details set to max.

Cant benchmark Quake anymore, they took out the demos in the 1.31 patch.

[MilkPowder-2]

Yeah and CiscoKid, RainMaqer, and Exile compare with mine. :D
http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?2339358

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by dj_unforgetable
Alright, but i've heard that the Geforce3Ti200 is much better than the Radeon 7500 (according to TomsHardware.com). ALso, how is the OEM Radeon 8500? is it good? is it much different from the Retail? i can get it (Radeon 8500 OEM) for around $342 CDN which is just a little more expensive than the Asus Geforce3Ti200 whic is $309. Does it over clock as well? Is the OEM Radeon 8500 (without overclocking) better than a Geforce3 or Ti500?

Also, here in Canada, the OEM Radeon is $319 and the Retail is $342, does that make much of a difference?

But i can get the OEM Radeon 8500 from another place for $319

Read my reply to another post 3 above it will answer all your questions. Also 8500 OEM is $319 here in Vancouver 7500 is $199 retail box at futureshop for another week.

As I said many many times G2 Ti200 /Geforce 2 Ultra compete with 7500 , 7500 is faster

G3 Ti200 / G3 competes with OEM 8500

retail 8500 and G3 Ti500 compete pretty much eqaul 8500 offers more technology

Cisco Kid:D

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by MilkPowder-2
Yeah and CiscoKid, RainMaqer, and Exile compare with mine. :D
http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?2339358

I only win in 2 tests:(

But I really did not expect that, 7500 did not do too bad. Got some more tweaking to do but I do not expect to break 5500 pts.

Nice card dude!!

Cisco Kid:D

[wildone]

MilkPowder-2 ,CiscoKid, RainMaqer, and Exile compare with mine ;)


http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?2269480

wildone

[RainMaQer]

I gotcha beat on the lower half of the tests:p

[wildone]

Originally posted by RainMaQer
I gotcha beat on the lower half of the tests:p

Yep ,I saw that,its your core and memory speed being higher ,I can get mine higher but not at the high fsb I run

wildone

[RainMaQer]

what's your agp running at?

[wildone]

72 I think ,288 ,I can run it at 150 believe it or not ,I think my memory craps before the card,but I have it set as aggresive as possible ;)

wildone

[RainMaQer]

must be that you use agp 4x... I can only do 2x... so agp at 89 is 178 effectivly... I don't even know how high I can push my card... Ti500 speeds seemed like a good place to jump to:D

[-Exi|e-]

Well, you guys beat me both but my system is at default fsb. Oh well, time to do a bench at 153fsb and beat you guys:D

[RainMaQer]

I tried mine at 140 and got 6500+... I can't seem to get it past the win98 splash screen at 150... if it doesn't hang it says the registry has errors and repairs system files:eh?:

[MilkPowder-2]

Originally posted by -Exi|e-
Well, you guys beat me both but my system is at default fsb. Oh well, time to do a bench at 153fsb and beat you guys:D

Uggg... we can't wait!!! @@ Hurry up. C'mon.. beat my P3 system with Ti200 heeheeheehee... :D

[-Exi|e-]

Well, its seems that my bump mapping is killing me a bit. I still get lower then you guys because of it. Take a look I must be doing something wrong?7321 (http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?2348789)

[MilkPowder-2]

Originally posted by -Exi|e-
Well, its seems that my bump mapping is killing me a bit. I still get lower then you guys because of it. Take a look 7249 (http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?2348680)
I must be doing something wrong?

Man that's close! :eek:

Nah.. not really I don't think.. I have seen others at around the same OC as yours and they get similar score as you +/-. Is your FSB set to 150mhz? Using good quality RAM? I assume you spent some time in the BIOS too right? I noticed that unlike the GF2 lines, these GF3 cards seem to perform quite better with higher GPU frequency than the memory. Have you tried to up your core from 220 to something higher?

[-Exi|e-]

7321 isnt that high if you look at my system, i should be getting a bit higher. Im using Crucial RAM with fastest timings. I havent really tried higher on the core because im waiting for a better heatsink than the one that is on right now.

[Taylor]

Uh, wutz UT?

[Violator]

UT=Unreal Tournament I suspect :)

Just to clarify, having read this post

7500 is in competition with the GF3 Ti200, GF3 Ti200 is faster than a 7500.

8500 is in competition with the GF3 Ti500, both cards are roughly equal.

And if you wanna check some 8500 scores, see my sig :D

[-Exi|e-]

Actually the 7500 was intended as a competitor for the GeForce 2 Ti. The GeForce 3Ti200 outperforms the 7500 by quite a bit.

[dj_unforgetable]

Okay guys, lemme get this straight...the OEM Radeon 8500 competes with the Geforce3Ti200?? Okay, but here in Canada, the difference in price between the 2 is only $10. But then again, you say that the Radeon 8500 is set for the future? SO as the thread asks, should i get the Geforce3Ti200 (which may only last a few months till the Geforce4 comes out) or should i get the Radeon 8500 (which may become cheaper once the Geforce4 comes out, or even the Radeon 9500 ?) I'm not planning to get it now, im planning to buy a new video card and mobo next summer, heh.

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by dj_unforgetable
Okay guys, lemme get this straight...the OEM Radeon 8500 competes with the Geforce3Ti200?? Okay, but here in Canada, the difference in price between the 2 is only $10. But then again, you say that the Radeon 8500 is set for the future? SO as the thread asks, should i get the Geforce3Ti200 (which may only last a few months till the Geforce4 comes out) or should i get the Radeon 8500 (which may become cheaper once the Geforce4 comes out, or even the Radeon 9500 ?) I'm not planning to get it now, im planning to buy a new video card and mobo next summer, heh.

the OEM 8500 (if you do your research and get the right one) whoops up on the Ti200 and with future drivers updates wil only get better, the Ti200 for the most part has pretty much reached its full potential....

the retail 8500 should beat the Ti500 with new driver updates

if youre gonna wait only till next summer to get a G4 or a 9500, then i would get the cheapest card...(ten dollars isnt much but there isnt that much difference between the two in actual games)....for just playing games the Ti200 and the OEM 8500 are more than enough.....if you like to benchmark the cards then the 8500 will be better,....

[Violator]

Originally posted by dj_unforgetable
Okay guys, lemme get this straight...the OEM Radeon 8500 competes with the Geforce3Ti200?? Okay, but here in Canada, the difference in price between the 2 is only $10. But then again, you say that the Radeon 8500 is set for the future? SO as the thread asks, should i get the Geforce3Ti200 (which may only last a few months till the Geforce4 comes out) or should i get the Radeon 8500 (which may become cheaper once the Geforce4 comes out, or even the Radeon 9500 ?) I'm not planning to get it now, im planning to buy a new video card and mobo next summer, heh.

No, the 8500 is competing with the Ti500, check my post further up :)

[wildone]

Originally posted by funnyperson1


the OEM 8500 (if you do your research and get the right one) whoops up on the Ti200 and with future drivers updates wil only get better, the Ti200 for the most part has pretty much reached its full potential....

the retail 8500 should beat the Ti500 with new driver updates

if youre gonna wait only till next summer to get a G4 or a 9500, then i would get the cheapest card...(ten dollars isnt much but there isnt that much difference between the two in actual games)....for just playing games the Ti200 and the OEM 8500 are more than enough.....if you like to benchmark the cards then the 8500 will be better,....

I highly doubt its reached its full potential ,my mx 400 only scored 2300 a year ago and now it scores 2900+ ,nvidia will always make better drivers at least once a month where ati lacks majorly,I think that they wont get much better for ati myself but thats just my opinion.

wildone

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by Violator
UT=Unreal Tournament I suspect :)

Just to clarify, having read this post

7500 is in competition with the GF3 Ti200, GF3 Ti200 is faster than a 7500.

8500 is in competition with the GF3 Ti500, both cards are roughly equal.

And if you wanna check some 8500 scores, see my sig :D


Violator

the 7500 was originally suppose to compete with the G3Ti200 but it can not, a realistic competitor wouyld be the G2Ti200 cards and the Geforce 2 Ultra cards. In this case the edge goes to the 7500

Check conclusion out, reviewer also says the Ultra posts a few more fps but the image /detail quality is no where near the 7500 and he gives samples to show it

Cisco Kid


http://www.sharkeyextreme.com/hardware/videocards/article.php/932821

[-Exi|e-]

Originally posted by wildone


I highly doubt its reached its full potential ,my mx 400 only scored 2300 a year ago and now it scores 2900+ ,nvidia will always make better drivers at least once a month where ati lacks majorly,I think that they wont get much better for ati myself but thats just my opinion.

wildone

Yep, i agree. If you want good driver support go for a nVidia card (Ti200). If you want the best card as of now, get either a 8500 or a Ti500.

[Mad Butter]

By the way...........a Radeon Retail is only $130 form a really good company too. Go to mwave.com to check for yourself...........Enjoy!

[Silversinksam]

Theres no way in hades that Mwave is selling a Retail Radeon 8500 for $130

Look:

ATI RADEON 8500 64MB AGP DDR 3D/DVD 2X/4X DVI INPUT 275MHZ W/DVI ADAPTER (Retail) (*While Supplies Last!) Detail Specs

http://direct.mwave.com/mwave/doc2/507994.html

And Even at that price I would call them and SPECIFICLY ask if the box says BUILT BY ATI

If the box says Powered by Ati its OEM and dont get me started talking about that dilema :p

[-Exi|e-]

Originally posted by Silversinksam
Theres no way in hades that Mwave is selling a Retail Radeon 8500 for $130

Look:

ATI RADEON 8500 64MB AGP DDR 3D/DVD 2X/4X DVI INPUT 275MHZ W/DVI ADAPTER (Retail) (*While Supplies Last!) Detail Specs

http://direct.mwave.com/mwave/doc2/507994.html

And Even at that price I would call them and SPECIFICLY ask if the box says BUILT BY ATI



If the box says Powered by Ati its OEM and dont get me started talking about that dilema :p

I dont know if dilema is the right word for it. Paradox is more like it, lol.

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by Mad Butter
By the way...........a Radeon Retail is only $130 form a really good company too. Go to mwave.com to check for yourself...........Enjoy!


Bah I would not trust that deal as far as I can pee, lotsa suckers are not gonna be happy, or lots of people will get the deal on the last day of 2K1.

Be leary very leary!!!!!!

Cisco Kid;)

[funnyperson1]

actually it appears to be a retail 8500 cep the price is 239$....

[Lynch03]

i have the same system you have except mine is alittle faster i have an amd 1.2ghz and 384 ram but your system beat mine silly i dont get it is there soemthing wrong with my comp? i only got 4363 in 3dmark2001 =(

http://gamershq.madonion.com/products/orb/?3d2k1_details.shtml?&prid=2355073

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by Lynch03
i have the same system you have except mine is alittle faster i have an amd 1.2ghz and 384 ram but your system beat mine silly i dont get it is there soemthing wrong with my comp? i only got 4363 in 3dmark2001

your score sounds appropriate for a Geforce2Ti , maybe you misread that he has a Geforce3....

[wildone]

Check it out I finally broke 8000 with my ti 200

http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?2355098

wildone

[Lynch03]

mine is a gf3 ti200

[Violator]

Originally posted by Cisco Kid



Violator

the 7500 was originally suppose to compete with the G3Ti200 but it can not, a realistic competitor wouyld be the G2Ti200 cards and the Geforce 2 Ultra cards. In this case the edge goes to the 7500

Check conclusion out, reviewer also says the Ultra posts a few more fps but the image /detail quality is no where near the 7500 and he gives samples to show it

Cisco Kid


http://www.sharkeyextreme.com/hardware/videocards/article.php/932821

What's your point here? The 7500 was intended as a competitor to the GF3 Ti200, but for the price and performance you're far better off with the Ti200. You can't compare the newer based 7500 with the older GF2s, we're talking a whole different generation of cards. Of course the newer card is going to beat the old, but that's no competition. ATi screwed up badly with this one IMO, the 7500 is nothing special at all. The 8500 yes is a great card and ATi should concentrate on that.

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by Violator


What's your point here? The 7500 was intended as a competitor to the GF3 Ti200, but for the price and performance you're far better off with the Ti200. You can't compare the newer based 7500 with the older GF2s, we're talking a whole different generation of cards. Of course the newer card is going to beat the old, but that's no competition. ATi screwed up badly with this one IMO, the 7500 is nothing special at all. The 8500 yes is a great card and ATi should concentrate on that.


no thats not true, if you look at the posts here there are tons of people still wanting to buy a Geforce2Ti and for them the 7500 is a bettter alternative....

[Violator]

Originally posted by funnyperson1



no thats not true, if you look at the posts here there are tons of people still wanting to buy a Geforce2Ti and for them the 7500 is a bettter alternative....

I'm not talking about the GF2 Ti, I'm referring to the GF3 Ti200. In the case of a GF2 yes the 7500 is the better option, but certainly not in the case of the GF3.

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by Violator


I'm not talking about the GF2 Ti, I'm referring to the GF3 Ti200. In the case of a GF2 yes the 7500 is the better option, but certainly not in the case of the GF3.

right but i dont think that the 7500 is "nothing special at all" heres the way i see ATIS marketing

7500 vs. Geforce2 Ti/Pro/Ultra
8500LE vs. Geforce3Ti200
8500 vs. Geforce3 Ti500

[Violator]

Originally posted by funnyperson1


right but i dont think that the 7500 is "nothing special at all" heres the way i see ATIS marketing

7500 vs. Geforce2 Ti/Pro/Ultra
8500LE vs. Geforce3Ti200
8500 vs. Geforce3 Ti500

Oh come on! ATi never even announced the 'LE' until there were enough protests at the 'OEM' card being clocked down. The original premise was that the 7500 was introduced as a competitor to the GF3 Ti200. Nothing else. The 'proper' 8500 was always compared to the Ti500.

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by Violator


Oh come on! ATi never even announced the 'LE' until there were enough protests at the 'OEM' card being clocked down. The original premise was that the 7500 was introduced as a competitor to the GF3 Ti200. Nothing else. The 'proper' 8500 was always compared to the Ti500.

well i think that after the whole OEM fiasco and seeing how badly the 7500 was crushed by the Ti200 their marketing scheme has changed...

[Violator]

Originally posted by funnyperson1


well i think that after the whole OEM fiasco and seeing how badly the 7500 was crushed by the Ti200 their marketing scheme has changed...

Well quite likely their marketing stance has now changed, however it doesn't change their earlier position.

But I really don't wanna argue (even tho' I'm right :)). It's New Years Day!!

Peace and much overclocking to everyone out there :)

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by Violator


I'm not talking about the GF2 Ti, I'm referring to the GF3 Ti200. In the case of a GF2 yes the 7500 is the better option, but certainly not in the case of the GF3.

Agreed but what I meant is that when it originally came out that is the 7500 it was to compete against the G3Ti200 but in a very short time it was apparent it would not.

Since then you really would compare the 7500 to the G2 Ti200 or Ultra cards. In that comparison the 7500 is the better buy.

Also I would say the 7500 is somewhat special, where can you get a card w tv out @ 1024x768 for $96 (OEM) and dual monitor support with the 2D and dvd playback quality it offers??

Plus it puts up very decent numbers,overclocks well and offers newer technology as you mentioned with no driver issues. I have always been an ATI fan and will continue to be into the future.

Cisco Kid

[Boilerhead]

This might be better posted elsewhere, the moderator might move it I spose, but it is very vid perf oriented.

I'm working with a GF3 Ti 500, it seems to me to be a better overall choice than the 8500 atm, all things considered. Depending on the rest of the setup perf differences seem to be almost negligable.

I have a POS P4 1.4 at 1470 with the GF3 Ti 500 which I use to run M$ Train Sim. I'm not your classic gamer anymore, the only 3d I care about is MSTS. The GA-8TX (I hate it) with a Riva TNT2 128 was pretty pathertic so I shelled out for the Ti 500 just to see how decent I could do in MSTS. I wasn't impressed with the performance at all, especially as compared to a friend's 1700+ GF3 on an A7V266. I thought there was something wrong with my POS P4, but with 7071 2k1 3dmarks I guess it is working OK compared to a lot of the scores I have seen posted.

Like I said I, I only really care about the speed and display quality in MSTS and even though I am tossing a whole mess of krap at the vid subsystem with MSTS I think the performance just sux.

I don't like the GA-8TX to start with, nor do I care for the P4 and RIMMS. I can't FSB more than 105 with much reliability, 110 and 3mark2k1, MSTS and Prime95 all screw the pooch, but everything else works ok. The next step is 133 which won't even post. Temps aren't the problem, it's just a bottleneck on the mobo which is poo for OC duty. 1470 is just pathetic for a 1.4 chip.

It's prompted me to start from scratch for a gaming machine so I can do my historical train sims without the herky jerkies when I'm doing 125 in the falling snow. Yeah I know that sounds dumb to some of you, but that's how I get my jollies, not with the shootemups.

Now, the real question is what kind of performance improvement can I expect with the under-construction system?

KR7A-R
1900+ (and an Athlon 1.4/266 for experiments/proofing)
Kingmax 256 DDR333 (alternately 4 sticks of 256 OCZ PC2700)
GF3 Ti 500
4x20g Maxtor ATA133 as one stripe set (KA 13.6 for boot drive)
WC with lapped blocks for CPU, NB, GPU, HD's
Audigy Platinum eX
Reaktek RTL8139A nic (also have EtherExpress Pro 10/100)
Active mem cooling
Six 80mm fans
500w psu
Viewsonic P817 21" monitor

All is either in my posession now or presently on order. I am prepared to unlock/vmod/reefertize/fold/spindle/mutilate to eek out every last mhz and mb/s from this deal. I'll OC both the system board and GPU as far as they will handle while maintaining a semblance of stability. I have the tools, materials and knowhow to haquer anything which might be required and if I have to throw a few more bux at it then so be it. I have a serious jones for some schpeeed atm and I won't be denied this time. I'm on a Mission.

Will I be able to get 10k 2k1 3dmarks out of this thing without killing myself? Might I be able to go substantially beyond that?

To go eXtreme am I wrong going Ti 500 instead of 8500?

Is it without argument that I want to active cool the vid ram or will I hit a wall elsewhere before passive cooling is at its limit?

Any projections on the max CPU mhz I might be able to beat out of this hardware combo, is 1900 at all possible, more even? Is 12x166 possible with this?

Does anyone have an opinion on whether this will be a decent setup for OC and 3D? I don't care about next week's hardware or what is currently available in the ultra high $$ areas, I'd like to work with today's readily available max perf stuff so I'm not married to $1500 worth of totally yesterday's tech in 30 days. I know the tbred is due shortly, but I can't get it now and I'll wait until a schwingin mobo is out in a good rev before tossing the KR7A-R.

Anyone have any good tips/opinions for improvement over what is listed above which doesn't get crazy $$ wise?

I know the ATA133 RAID might fall short of what I'd like for throughput, but aside from the storage subsystem, where can I work on more performance?

Will either of those nics work ok for the OC?? What about the SB?

As stupid as it sounds, it appears that MSTS is VERY demanding on the bandwidth capabilities of a box and in addition to the hobby of blowing out the best numbers I'd like max perf in that sim regardless of how inefficient its engine is.

Am I on crack or do you think this direction will be good for 5 digit 2k1 3mark thrashing for a while? Where's my first limitation going to be?

I have yet to see anything posted anywhere which looks like anything more than a mild oc on a KR7A/1900+ deal, is that because it's a waste of time? Am I going to fire it up and then end up scrapping it two days later after hitting a brick wall?

TIA for any tips/opinions, this place has been a godsend for info and ideas!

Henry

[wildone]

I think your p4 will hold you back more then your card ,I did a little research and in the top 90 at madonion , only 3 p4's and one athlon ,the xp is all that you will see.I got 8128 pts with a ti 200 so far.

wildone

[Lynch03]

how far should i be able to overclock my MSI ti200? and btw my amd tbird 1.2 ghz fsb is at 100. is it suppose to be higher?

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by Boilerhead
This might be better posted elsewhere, the moderator might move it I spose, but it is very vid perf oriented.

I'm working with a GF3 Ti 500, it seems to me to be a better overall choice than the 8500 atm, all things considered. Depending on the rest of the setup perf differences seem to be almost negligable.

I have a POS P4 1.4 at 1470 with the GF3 Ti 500 which I use to run M$ Train Sim. I'm not your classic gamer anymore, the only 3d I care about is MSTS. The GA-8TX (I hate it) with a Riva TNT2 128 was pretty pathertic so I shelled out for the Ti 500 just to see how decent I could do in MSTS. I wasn't impressed with the performance at all, especially as compared to a friend's 1700+ GF3 on an A7V266. I thought there was something wrong with my POS P4, but with 7071 2k1 3dmarks I guess it is working OK compared to a lot of the scores I have seen posted.

Like I said I, I only really care about the speed and display quality in MSTS and even though I am tossing a whole mess of krap at the vid subsystem with MSTS I think the performance just sux.

I don't like the GA-8TX to start with, nor do I care for the P4 and RIMMS. I can't FSB more than 105 with much reliability, 110 and 3mark2k1, MSTS and Prime95 all screw the pooch, but everything else works ok. The next step is 133 which won't even post. Temps aren't the problem, it's just a bottleneck on the mobo which is poo for OC duty. 1470 is just pathetic for a 1.4 chip.

It's prompted me to start from scratch for a gaming machine so I can do my historical train sims without the herky jerkies when I'm doing 125 in the falling snow. Yeah I know that sounds dumb to some of you, but that's how I get my jollies, not with the shootemups.

Now, the real question is what kind of performance improvement can I expect with the under-construction system?

KR7A-R
1900+ (and an Athlon 1.4/266 for experiments/proofing)
Kingmax 256 DDR333 (alternately 4 sticks of 256 OCZ PC2700)
GF3 Ti 500
4x20g Maxtor ATA133 as one stripe set (KA 13.6 for boot drive)
WC with lapped blocks for CPU, NB, GPU, HD's
Audigy Platinum eX
Reaktek RTL8139A nic (also have EtherExpress Pro 10/100)
Active mem cooling
Six 80mm fans
500w psu
Viewsonic P817 21" monitor

All is either in my posession now or presently on order. I am prepared to unlock/vmod/reefertize/fold/spindle/mutilate to eek out every last mhz and mb/s from this deal. I'll OC both the system board and GPU as far as they will handle while maintaining a semblance of stability. I have the tools, materials and knowhow to haquer anything which might be required and if I have to throw a few more bux at it then so be it. I have a serious jones for some schpeeed atm and I won't be denied this time. I'm on a Mission.

Will I be able to get 10k 2k1 3dmarks out of this thing without killing myself? Might I be able to go substantially beyond that?

To go eXtreme am I wrong going Ti 500 instead of 8500?

Is it without argument that I want to active cool the vid ram or will I hit a wall elsewhere before passive cooling is at its limit?

Any projections on the max CPU mhz I might be able to beat out of this hardware combo, is 1900 at all possible, more even? Is 12x166 possible with this?

Does anyone have an opinion on whether this will be a decent setup for OC and 3D? I don't care about next week's hardware or what is currently available in the ultra high $$ areas, I'd like to work with today's readily available max perf stuff so I'm not married to $1500 worth of totally yesterday's tech in 30 days. I know the tbred is due shortly, but I can't get it now and I'll wait until a schwingin mobo is out in a good rev before tossing the KR7A-R.

Anyone have any good tips/opinions for improvement over what is listed above which doesn't get crazy $$ wise?

I know the ATA133 RAID might fall short of what I'd like for throughput, but aside from the storage subsystem, where can I work on more performance?

Will either of those nics work ok for the OC?? What about the SB?

As stupid as it sounds, it appears that MSTS is VERY demanding on the bandwidth capabilities of a box and in addition to the hobby of blowing out the best numbers I'd like max perf in that sim regardless of how inefficient its engine is.

Am I on crack or do you think this direction will be good for 5 digit 2k1 3mark thrashing for a while? Where's my first limitation going to be?

I have yet to see anything posted anywhere which looks like anything more than a mild oc on a KR7A/1900+ deal, is that because it's a waste of time? Am I going to fire it up and then end up scrapping it two days later after hitting a brick wall?

TIA for any tips/opinions, this place has been a godsend for info and ideas!

Henry


the 1900+ is not much of an overclocker that is why, AMD had pretty much maxed out that core at that speed.......also i dont know how good the Video Graphics are in MSTS and PIII, or Duron should be good enough for MSTS, forget P4, i can play most any game on a PIII with a Geforce 2 with video quality and speed very good, i think either your standards are too highsnf wont ever be satified or, more liekly there are some driver problems......

[Boilerhead]

MSTS doesn't have such a great engiine I think.

Couple that with some very involved scenes, moving trains and lots of textures loading all the time (your moving in the train most of the time) and to get high image quality and lots of fps it takes a lot of juice.

Yeah I will probably never be satisfied with the performance, but isn't that part of what OCing is about?

I know that the 1900+ is starting to get maxed out for that family, but that doesn't mean that a slick rig can't push it far until the .13's hit the mainstream. Average 1900+ oc is like 1791 I think, if the average is almost +200 I would think the exceptional could go considerably beyond that.

I forgot about getting very far with the Pos4 long ago, but it's here in Port Clinton where I am (my noc with most of the other machines is in Buffalo) and has the GF3 in it so I may as well play with it. I even upped the lousy 3dmark 2k1 from 7071 to 7218 last night.

My P3 1ghz notebook plays most 3d games just fine, but just fine isn't what I am looking for in MSTS, max performance is. I'm not using it as a game, but as a historical recreation of things you can't see any more. Quality matters and so does a smooth flow of animation. It just wrecks the illusion when you're buzzing along at 110 MPH at 24fps and it jerks back to 7 or 8 fps while textures load and the screen gets busier with scenery objects.

From what I can tell, 3dmark is everything in MSTS.

My Koolance arrived today as well as the 4 ATA133 dirves! Im getting closer :)

At least I'll be able to start lapping now.

Henry