What is the best heatsink?(without the fan)

[Strider879]

Someone told me that the heatsink from the swiftech mcx462 is better than the alpha 8045 heatsink. He also told me that copper conducts heats better than aluminum so the heatsink from the mcx462 is better or what? I'm planning to put in a panaflo 47 cfm 38.2 dba fan on top of it. I just don't like the delta fan on top of my mcx462 right now. Hey is 8 dba lower alot quieter or only a little bit as the delta fan on my hsf is 46.2 dba!

[Crazy Jayhawk]

The difference between copper and aluminum is nowhere near as important as the shape of the 'sink. And if the 'sink is a hybrid of the two metals, there are potential problems where they come in contact, if the connection isn't perfect.

[flounder43]

That Swiftech is pretty much top of the line. You do need a good fan to make it work, though. That panaflo is probably a good alternative to the delta...

[Warlord2]

you may try a 7v mod with the delta before you go out and buy a new fan

it should be alot quieter

[DarkInferno_IV]

My quad ( sig says triple, but its now quad, and im finishing the quad 220 chiller) 220W waterblock.

Enough said.

[TranceBear]

I would go with what your ears can handle and you wallet. Forget what all these guys say, whatever works for ya!!!

[Hoot]

Regardless of what fan you choose to use, it will work best with your MCX-462. The MCX-462 is so good, with the right CPU speed and core voltage, you may be able to use it without any fan. A lot depends upon how good your through-case ventillation is. The better the through-case ventillation, the higher you will be able to run your CPU without any fan on the MCX-462. This is not something to try without keeping a close eye on your temps during the experiment. I found that even with modest through-case ventillation, I could run my Duron 600 at 600 wityhout any fan on my MC-462 and keep the core temperature at an acceptable level. Obviously, with more powerful CPUs, this is not an option. The bottom line is that if you want to run your CPU fast, with air cooling, you have to accept the need for high volumes of air flowing through the heatsink and that equates to louder. I finally switched to water cooling and with that approach, you can get excellent cooling with much less noise than the air cooling capacity equivalent.

73, Hoot

[Dissolved]

Originally posted by DarkInferno_IV
My quad ( sig says triple, but its now quad, and im finishing the quad 220 chiller) 220W waterblock.

Enough said.


dude, you should cut ur sig, it takes up half a page... ;(

[DodgeViper]

Both the Swift and the Alpha use copper and aluminum. Both use aluminum fins. The latest review I saw the Swift out performed the Alpha using the same Delta by 2c, when using the same 50cfm Sunon fans the difference was 1c. I would bet from my experience with the Alpha's, whoever does the reviews are using a stock Alpha. Alpha's are shipped with somewhat of a ridged surface where the Swift's look to be perfectly (0.001) flat. If Alpha would step up there tolerances on the finished product then both would be equal in cooling. I dropped my temps lapping the stock Alpha. I also dropped my temps by another 4c adding two more nylon washers to compress the spring pressure against the core. I prefer MY Alpha for three reasons; price, performance, and I do not have the added weight hanging on my motherboard. So if you like to spend 1/2 hour lapping and polishing the Alpha and not against saving a few bucks ($25.00) you can have a HS that will perform side by side with the best....

Just my 2c

[donny_paycheck]

If you don't mind the extra $$$ then go with the swiftech.

[Big_KiD]

sorry if this isn't in the right spot but what's the best way to "lap" the alpha.. I have one right now in but i didn't lap it.. Right now my temps are 40/29 after 4 hours of TFC.. Also I didn't unlock my proccessor but the bios lets me change the fsb. is it really ocing or just fooling itself.. thanks.

[DodgeViper]

Lapping, Grinding, or Otherwise Making a Heatsink or Cold Plate Surface Smooth and Flat

1. Use a piece of flat glass as your work surface (it must be very flat, and supported well)
2. Use waterproof sandpaper (sometimes called wet or dry)

3. Use lots of water (several cc at a time, the water flushes the metal particles away, keeps the sandpaper clog free, and makes it stick to the glass)

4. Depending on how flat and smooth your heatsink is, expect to spend 30 minutes or more at this work (I do it on a glass coffee table top in front of the television - you don't even have to watch the work [of course, if the show is bad enough, you can watch the work, and finish faster])

5. Use a relatively light pressure on the workpiece and move it back and forth across the sandpaper; try to keep an even downward force on the workpiece and avoid digging in the edges or corners. Rotate the heatsink 90 degrees approximately (NOT exactly) every dozen or so strokes.

6. If your heat sink is relatively flat and smooth, then 400 grit is a good place to start. If after ten minutes of work you do not see much progress (there are many pits larger than the surface roughness left by the 400 grit sandpaper), drop to a lower number grit (320) or (260).

7. Using finer grit sandpaper will help improve heat transfer: 1500 is certainly fine enough, but since you need to get such fine grades at an automobile parts store (it is used for finishing automobile paintwork), you might as well get a sheet each of 600, 800, 1000, 1500, and 2000. The more coarse grits are easy to find at a paint or hardware store 40, 60, 80, 120, 180, 220, 280, 320, 400, 600. (Grit # 40 will take the portrait off a franc coin in a minute or so; the average heatsink with faint circular milling marks can probably be started at 320.)

8. The work can be completed in less time if you step up through each grade, removing all the pits left by the previous grade before moving to the next finer grit.

9. Each time you change to a finer grit, VERY carefully wash the work surface, your hands, the heatsink, and the sandpaper. Any larger grit left when you start with a finer grade will leave visible scratches.

10. The waterproof (or wet/dry) sandpaper will last a long time. After you are through with the work, wash the sandpaper and let it dry. You can reuse it many times as long as it is not torn.

11. As an example of how fine 2000 grit is, you could use it on Mercedes paintwork and almost not notice an effect other than the missing wax polish.

12. Do not use too much pressure when sanding the heatsink; you want a flat as well as a smooth surface, and too much pressure can cause one edge or corner to be ground down more quickly (that is one reason for occasionally rotating the heatsink a random amount.) Too much pressure may also cause a corner to tear the sandpaper. If you do not tear the sandpaper, one sheet of each grade should last through ten or more heatsinks.

13. Emery cloth is similar to sandpaper, except that the base is cloth, rather than paper. It is ok for the rougher grits, but I think that I will not give as flat a surface when you move to finer grits.

14. Crocus cloth. This is a polishing material similar to emery cloth, but it has jeweler's rouge on the surface rather than emery grit. THIS IS NOT waterproof. I tried it to get a final polish, and added water. All the jeweler's rouge washed off! For a final polish, a soft cloth and a solvent that will remove dirt and grease are about all you need.

15. The method of grinding the heatsink you and I have described is the way flat mirrors for astronomical use are made (except there are machines that do the work now.) A spherical section mirror can be ground in exactly the same way, except that the grinding surface is circular, and the same size as the mirror. (The only additional action used for the flat and spherical mirrors is that the person grinding the mirror, also, after six or eight strokes, walks partially around the work surface to grind from a new angle.) This is probably not necessary for a heatsink, since the method used on astronomical mirrors makes a surface that is smooth and correct to less than 100 nanometers! At that point, thermal compound would not be necessary, and in fact, would have a negative effect. Even just going in a careful manner to the 1500 grit will give you a surface that, when placed on an FC-PGA CPU, will lift the CPU when the heatsink is raised.

[Strider879]

*bump

[donny_paycheck]

Without starting another thread, is lapping the core of a CPU really necessary? How much of a thermal transfer effeciency increase do you think I'd notice?

Oh and by the way, that 8045 looks AWESOME.

[Yodums]

Originally posted by donny_paycheck
Without starting another thread, is lapping the core of a CPU really necessary? How much of a thermal transfer effeciency increase do you think I'd notice?

Oh and by the way, that 8045 looks AWESOME.

Take my advice as the same words will come out of 90% of the people who say this.

DO NOT LAP THE CORE.

Especially as AMD cores are very fragile.

You'll notice 0.5 Degree difference and you'll never have enough time to lap the core flat as glass.

The only thing necessary lapping is the HSF.

[DodgeViper]

I agree, DO NOT LAP THE CORE!!!!!!

[donny_paycheck]

Roger that, I was scared of the idea myself! Thanks for the advice (or common sense)?

[tacobell]

Was that alpha lapped in circular motion or just back and forth?

I lapped my waterblock for 2 hours and didn´t got even close to that.

[DodgeViper]

It was lapped back and forth on a piece of 3/8” glass. In the photo at the top you’re seeing the reflection of my desktop. This is why it looks distorted. Once I had the HS lapped I hand polished the surface with a product called SimiChrome. I then used Acetone to remove any by products left behind from the SimiChrome. SimiChrome is a cleaner, it’s not a rubbing compound, so you do need to worry your going to be removing any metal. I have provided a link to Simichrome.

http://www.competitionchemicals.com/simichro.html

[oc jason]

yes 8 db is a mojor sound drop in my opinion. 3db difference is supposed to be double the perceived sound to the ear, so it will sound half as loud

[Dagon]

I actually ran my 1.4 @ stock voltage without a Fan for over a hour (watching a DVD, no hardware decoding either) by mistake with my MC462.

Besides the 89C cpu temps the computer had no problems! :eek:

Bottom line, IMO the Switech MC462 MX462 etc.. are the best Heat sinks out there.

[DodgeViper]

I actually ran my 1.4 @ stock voltage without a Fan for over a hour (watching a DVD, no hardware decoding either) by mistake with my MC462.

So what did this prove? Why would the Swift be better? I sure would not want my 1.4 approaching 89c. Seems to me you proved nothing.

[donny_paycheck]

Originally posted by DodgeViper
So what did this prove? Why would the Swift be better? I sure would not want my 1.4 approaching 89c. Seems to me you proved nothing.

Nah, I think he meant that even with ambient ventilation it cooled well. I don't know anybody here that'd want their CPU that hot.

[nikhsub1]

Originally posted by DodgeViper

Both the Swift and the Alpha use copper and aluminum. Both use aluminum fins.



Yes but the alpha is a copper/aluminum fused base where the swiftech is an all copper base. They both use aluminum pins to dissipate the heat.

[1Time]

Prime pic of the 8045. Mine looked like a dull mirror after lapping 2 1/2 hours with 600, 1000, 1500 and 2000 grit. I used small figure 8s. Not knowing better I lapped the core of my XP 1700+ but only partially. I used 1000 and 1500 grit for about 30 minutes and was only able to flatten the corners and edges. Didn't even erase the printing. Was afraid of damaging it. The face of the core is very concave. After spending over 3 hours all told it was quite a let down to see the two surfaces were not going to mesh flat. And, my 8045's not cooling as good as I'd hoped, but it is better now that I added a copper washer on each corner. To do it again I'd go with a better hs than the 8045.

>AMD XP 1700+ >Epox 8KHA+ >Alpha PAL8045 hs >512mb Crucial PC2100 2.5 cas >40 gig Seagate Barracuda IV 7200 rpm >GeForce GTS-V 32mb DDR >LiteOn CD/DVD - CDRW >SB Live Value >Win XP Home >Samsung 19" >Antec case SX635 >Antec 350w ps PP-352X >NIC 10/100 - floppy

[DodgeViper]

Your blaming the Alpha and for what? I would never have touched the core. The Alpha is as good as the Swift. Even the latest review shows that the Swift only has a 1c gain over the Alpha. I suspect if your not getting the temps you think you should be getting. Then you have problems with air flow through your case. Also are you using ASll and have you waited 48 hours for everything to settle in.

[donny_paycheck]

The differences between the two are minute. I used the Swiftech MC462 for a while (no helicoid pins) and it worked great too. It supposedly still gets a tad lower than the alpha, but for MUCH more cash. Not worth it in my opinion. The MCX- is even better but really not by all that much as I've noticed. For the money the PAL8045 is the best performance for the dollar. They're ALL awesome heat sinks. I don't think we need to waste time debating which one gets 1 degree closer to ambient here.

[DodgeViper]

I have to agree. Not all computers or case's are built alike. What works for one may not work for the other. I perfer the Alpha, because of performance and value. It may not be as good looking as others, but then my computer does not need a window for me to know whats inside.

[donny_paycheck]

Originally posted by DodgeViper
I have to agree. Not all computers or case's are built alike. What works for one may not work for the other. I perfer the Alpha, because of performance and value. It may not be as good looking as others, but then my computer does not need a window for me to know whats inside.

lol yeah, and besides that a cool looking HSF won't get me any more mhz or frags in UT so I don't worry about it.

[1Time]

Yes, I used ASII and air flow's at 180 CFM, front to back. Could probably use a faster fan on the 8045. But for all the effort and expense I thought I'd get a few degrees cooler than 39 degrees at idle, 10 degrees over ambient. I don't know, maybe that's good enough. Still, for me to do it again, if there's a hs for a few more bucks that would cool as good or better without lapping, I'd probably get it instead. :)

>AMD XP 1700+ >Epox 8KHA+ >Alpha PAL8045 hs >512mb Crucial PC2100 2.5 cas >40 gig Seagate Barracuda IV 7200 rpm >GeForce GTS-V 32mb DDR >LiteOn CD/DVD - CDRW >SB Live Value >Win XP Home >Samsung 19" >Antec case SX635 >Antec 350w ps PP-352X >NIC 10/100 - floppy