Jack Thompson - on GTA IV already

[John G]

Well, Jack Thompson is already on the crusade against GTA IV. Interestingly enough, he was on a local morning radio show talking about it.

All the usual stuff…horrific adult content being given to kids.

The part that I was most annoyed about is that in the beginning of the interview he characterized it as a kid's game with all this bad stuff in it. As it went on, he did bring out more facts and clarified that it is a M rated game with warnings and not supposed to be sold to kids.

Over the course of the thing, he did eventually hammer on a few somewhat valid points.

One, retailers do a poor job at requiring ID and end up selling the game to kids. In my own experience, I disagree with this. In particular, he mentioned Wal-Mart and Best Buy. Wal-Mart has an automated system at the register that prompts the cashier to check ID. I get carded every time for something like this, even though I'm late 20's and pretty much look my age. I saw them a while back refuse to sell GLUE STICKS to some 15ish girls getting poster board and stuff for a school project. I've been carded at Best Buy too, but they're not as thorough as Wal-Mart. Other places like Gamestop seem to be closer to the Wal-Mart side of things. All he had to offer was anecdotal evidence of him video taping having his own son buy M-rated games at places.

Two, he accuses Take-Two of marketing directly to kids. On this, I agree that they do advertise in some things that get exposure to kids like video game magazines, but nothing that I've seen is targeted specifically to kids. All of the TV ads I see are during shows and times that are primarily adult audiences. I can't say that they are any worse than R-rated movie or beer ads, other than the obvious thing of advertising a video game in a video game magazine gets some kid exposure.

Lastly, he blasted the more or less the existance of the game saying that even if parents kept their own kids from it, they'd get exposure to it through the multitudes of other kids who would have the game. In other words, they'd play or see it at a friend's house. And, if not even that….all these other kids would be more violent themselves from having played the game…leading to more violent schools in general.

[jack222]

Well we all know he is an idiot.

And a lot of places have gotten stricter with ID's. For one, ebgames asks everyone. And they really do check. They used to sell underage, but now I've noticed that anyone that looks like they're under 30 gets carded no matter what, especially for GTA. (I pre ordered GTA the same time I was buying GoW and he told me he wanted to see my ID because I was buying GTA. He had already rung me up for GoW.)

Thompson's comments are as pointless as NYC's. NYC said they did not like they way the city was portrayed and was strongly against it. The best response I saw, however, was if they're going to criticize this game, why don't they ever criticize movie or TV shows depicting the same thing?

[FudgeNuggets]

Jack Thompson lost his clout and respectability on Captol Hill last year. He's just yammering to hear himself yammer, nobody's listening save for a few gamers and bloggers that like to poke fun at him.

[grayg]

http://forums.hexus.net/gaming-news/104136-headline-s-not-just-jack-thompson-who-s-upset-gta-iv.html

I'm not sure it is the' Jack Thompson but apparantly he is known for doing this sort of thing, anyway he gets strung up good a proper by one of the hexus guys :p

[Red_LightRanger]

I can understand the id thing, but I think kids will find a way to play it regardless. Still confused on why this guy is so ****ed about great games!

I mean if I play guitar hero for hrs on end im not gonna be a rock star...just like if I play gta4 im not gonna be a terrorist....although heroin hero is a different story.

[Cheator]

You know, if he wasn't such a dumbass, he could do SO much good.

The issue that I see is 2 fold: Stores don't care enough about the rating, and parents give it to their kids and blame someone else for their fault.

Jack could lead a huge campaign to washington and make it a law, just like movies or even cigs, that it can't be sold to someone underage. If it was law, then less kids coudl waltz in and buy it. Thats what we need, and thats what he needs to do. But instead, he focuses on misleading people and getting attention for himself.

And the fact that parents haven't done the same thing boggles my mind. If I had kids, thats one thing I would be stringient on, and even write my PM! Some video games are not for kids, just like some movies are not for kids.


I'm at least glad to see the EB games near me tell parents whats appropriate and what isn't.

[ratbuddy]

I'm 30 years old and I get friggin carded buying PC games at Target. It's ridiculous. When did we absolve parents of their responsibilities for what their child has access to in terms of media? Ugh.

[John G]

I think the ratings on the box and the carding at the store is great, even if they are carding somone who is 50 years old.

All these issues stem from many adults being completely oblivious to the fact that games are like movies now. Many are very much adult oriented with adult content. Everyone understands that with movies, but for some reason lots of people don't wake up to games and think they're all for kids.

So, here's the advantage of carding someone who's clearly old enough... Some 45 year old parent who equates video games to Pac-man is checking out at Wal-Mart with a copy of this "GTA 4" game that their 12 year old son has been begging for and saying that all their friends are getting it because it's gonna be the best game, ever. The cashier stops and requests ID. Why? ID for a video game? Violence...drugs...simulated sex acts...17+...

It's a chance to wake up and pay attention. If it's serious enough to require ID, a lot of people will take notice. Possibly add in some serious penalties for not carding like for alcohol and cigarettes and it will add even more weight.

[zPacKRat]

My 360 is in my office since the games I own are not appropriate for my kids and they know to stay out when I'm playing (they have a Wii in the family room).
While I believe that kids should not be exposed to a lot of the content in todays games, it is my responsibility to monitor my kids not some poorly thought out government sponsored group trying to save my kids.

At the end of the day it's the parents responsibility to monitor what their children do, unfortunately a lot of parents are not parents but best buddies and just want their kids to be "happy".

And Red_LightRanger, it's a matter of the young folk being numbed to human violence that is bad, and the media in general does a good job of numbing the young mind these days. I for one don't want my kids going around bragging how they beat someone down even if it's in a game.

[Cheator]

My 360 is in my office since the games I own are not appropriate for my kids and they know to stay out when I'm playing (they have a Wii in the family room).
While I believe that kids should not be exposed to a lot of the content in todays games, it is my responsibility to monitor my kids not some poorly thought out government sponsored group trying to save my kids.

At the end of the day it's the parents responsibility to monitor what their children do, unfortunately a lot of parents are not parents but best buddies and just want their kids to be "happy".

And Red_LightRanger, it's a matter of the young folk being numbed to human violence that is bad, and the media in general does a good job of numbing the young mind these days. I for one don't want my kids going around bragging how they beat someone down even if it's in a game.

Thanks for taking on the responsibility! I always appreciate parents who do this. I agree that it shouldn't be up to the government, however it certainly would help a little.

[Mr.Guvernment]

parents give it to their kids and blame someone else for their fault.


BINGO!

why doesnt he rant on about bad parenting and how those kids friends for them game and the parents let them playit,,,

[Ebola]

The ERB is a good thing in that fact that it helps warn parents of the content. As others have mentioned it is a parents final responsibility. I'm willing to bet that the majority of kids who play these games have their parents buy them defeating the whole system.

[zPacKRat]

The ERB is a good thing in that fact that it helps warn parents of the content. As others have mentioned it is a parents final responsibility. I'm willing to bet that the majority of kids who play these games have their parents buy them defeating the whole system.

I agree that the ERB is a good thing, much like the movie industry and the ratings system they use. Media should be rated for appropriate audiences period, however as you stated Ebola, if the parent allows the youth to view/play then it does no good. This however does not constitute a need to pull shuch content from the shelves, as that would be against the constitution. Don't like it, don't buy it, do something about it except blame the company that made it. It's a sad day when few want to be responsible for their own actions except for when it make them look good.

[tenchi86]

Jack Thompson is a very shallow IMO simply trying to find an easier target to exploit to further his career. His mission in general about keeping the rating system in-line and forcing people to follow it however is something I see as valuable.

[Oni]

Why would ID be required to buy a game when the rating systems (ESRB, PEGI etc) are not legally binding nor are they government controlled? The kid is not buying beer or cigarettes here, they're buying a video game, and last I checked, video games are not harmful to your body.

The rating systems are merely there so parents can make informed decisions on what their children can and cannot play. The responsibility lies solely on the parents to make these decisions. There is a great article over at The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/apr/28/games.censorship) That everybody really should read. And then read again. Honestly, it brings around more than a few good points, and even though it deals primarily with the UK, it's still relevant across the pond.

The ERB is a good thing in that fact that it helps warn parents of the content. As others have mentioned it is a parents final responsibility. I'm willing to bet that the majority of kids who play these games have their parents buy them defeating the whole system.

It's not a defeat. If the parent is informed (the big black M for Mature is a good starting point) that parent now knows what to expect in the game. So if little Billy, who is 15 years old asks his mom if he can have this game, she looks at the ratings, then at the content. She ultimately decides if he can have it. She would know her child better than anybody, and she would know if he is mature enough for the content. If she deems that he is mature enough for the content (lets say that Billy gets straight A's in school and is on the Honor Roll and whatnot) she'll get it for him. I wouldn't have a problem if my kid was that mature. However, if Billy is a tyrant and a generally immature pest, I'd put that damn box right back on the shelf.

The ESRB ratings are not set in stone, they are flexible. They are a guideline and little else. That is what is so great about them. They give the consumer the right to choose without the government getting in the way and telling you what you can and cannot buy.

[Cheator]

Why would ID be required to buy a game when the rating systems (ESRB, PEGI etc) are not legally binding nor are they government controlled? The kid is not buying beer or cigarettes here, they're buying a video game, and last I checked, video games are not harmful to your body.

The rating systems are merely there so parents can make informed decisions on what their children can and cannot play. The responsibility lies solely on the parents to make these decisions. There is a great article over at The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/apr/28/games.censorship) That everybody really should read. And then read again. Honestly, it brings around more than a few good points, and even though it deals primarily with the UK, it's still relevant across the pond.

This isn't to prevent botily harm. This is to make parents more responsible and aware. Its just like movies man, kids can't get into certain ratings.

While the ESRB ratings aren't legal, they should definitely be enforced at stores. This way only the parents have no ground to stand on to blame anyone, and can be forced to take responsibility for themselves.

[ratbuddy]

Please. Do kids get carded buying 'violent' books at Borders? I seriously doubt it.

[Cheator]

Please. Do kids get carded buying 'violent' books at Borders? I seriously doubt it.
I never said these things affect them. I grew up fine without being censored. I'm saying I'd like to see parents take responsibility.

[Mr.Guvernment]

^^ dido, i had access to basically anything i wanted, violent video games, all that, - i havent run out and killed anyone, cause i know my parentsd would of kicked my ass.

[John G]

I'm big on government staying out of games. I don't want them to be involved in controlling content in games or controlling how they are rated.

However, I am for empowering parents.

In other forms of media, be it paper publications (adult magazines, etc.), movies, even the generally unregulated internet, there are laws that prevent providers from supplying directly to kids. For the most part, this stuff works without censoring or altering the intent of the content.

For some reason, games haven't been taken as seriously. We're already in a pretty good place with things now with the industry basically policing itself. The remaining gaps are mostly just some inconsistency with retailers and a general lack of public awareness. Something as simple as a little bit of legal teeth that ensures that the carding process actually happens would go a long way to improve both. Beyond that, I'm drawing a line in the sand and saying, "Don't screw with my video games."

If a parent wants to let their teenager play a game they think they can handle, not shelter their kids too much, sure….that's their choice to make. I just want them to be making the choice and hopefully be reasonably informed about it. Kids are resourceful, they just shouldn't have as easy of a time bypassing their parents as just buying it themselves.

That's also about as far as I think public obligation extends. Games are clearly rated. Parents must buy over-age games themselves. Beyond that, it's a parent's responsibility to be aware and make decisions for their kids. They can complain and moan about all the bad things in the world surrounding their kids all they want, but that's life and they're just going to have to deal with it.

[Cheator]

^^ dido, i had access to basically anything i wanted, violent video games, all that, - i havent run out and killed anyone, cause i know my parentsd would of kicked my ass.

lol. that was my motivation too.

[Seven]

Who cares? I'd rather have my kid (if I had one) living vicariously through Niko Bellic than actually going on a real life rampage...

Just something to think about. Do we actually need to regulate our games/movies/music? Let people listen to what they want to.

7

[Cheator]

Who cares? I'd rather have my kid (if I had one) living vicariously through Niko Bellic than actually going on a real life rampage...

Just something to think about. Do we actually need to regulate our games/movies/music? Let people listen to what they want to.

7
Why not? We regulate cigarettes.

[iaacp]

Who cares? I'd rather have my kid (if I had one) living vicariously through Niko Bellic than actually going on a real life rampage...

Just something to think about. Do we actually need to regulate our games/movies/music? Let people listen to what they want to.

7

Um, some things definitely need to be regulated. Parents can only do so much. If there were unregulated moves, your kid could go sneak into an XXX movie with his buddies.

[Kenshiro]

LOL... he on a crusade against GTA4?? Wasn't there a pic of him holding a xbox360 copy of GTA4?

[iaacp]

LOL... he on a crusade against GTA4?? Wasn't there a pic of him holding a xbox360 copy of GTA4?

Well, yeah, he has to figure out teh bad contentz.

[deathman20]

Yeah I got carded at Target for the game. They even scanned my ID, only looked at the pic on the front but actually scanned the bar code on the back. Never seen them do that before.

Can't wait for him to really push something on this. Its ammusing what he tries to do and gets slammed in the end either way.

[Cheator]

Really? thats interesting. Its good though, the digital data is (usually) safer than the date on the front. There are a few bars here that do it.