HDTV Tuners - Questions.

[Great Satchmo]

I'm thinking about picking up a tuner or two for HD capabilities. Right now my computers don't have PCI-E.

My first question is: should I want to sink the $$$ into tuners until I have PCI-E capable computers for something like the PVR-1800? Does it matter?


Second, what are the actual acronyms for the HD standards? I have an HDTV hooked up strait to cable (digital cable) and it tunes into, for example, channel 4.1 which is HD. There is no antenna. What is this? What is the type of signal that is literally sent through the air? I want a card capable of capturing the digital channels coming through the actual cable as well as OTA stuff.

Which tuners actually act as 2 tuners, and HD and SD, at the same time? I think the PVR-1600 seems to be able to tune both HD and SD at the same time. Is "hybrid" a name that means its only capable of tuning 1 of the channels of a time?

What tuners offer the best quality? I've been running a pvr-150 and the quality seems kinda ****ty. I have SEEN a lot of recordings from torrents that are obviously SD recordings from TV, are compressed, and I'm pretty sure they look a lot better than mine. This could be signal quality, there have been issues with my provider, but its making me aware that I want a quality tuner.


Ideas and thought:)

[Great Satchmo]

Oh, and this will either be run in Vista Media Center or in MythTV (maybe Mythbuntu or Mythdora, something like that). I don't care about bundled software.

I don't need remote controls, I already have some.

Dunno if that stuff makes any differences.

[michaelkahl]

First, not sure I'd post about torrented television shows.
As far as tuners go, I'm glad I have a PCIe card, but I don't think it's an
absolute must. If you have free PCI slots it shouldn't be an issue, I have
all my PCI slots filled up. Happauge has a PCI tuner card, the1600 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116010).
I believe the happauges are hybrid and the only comobo cards I've heard of are the
Avermedia M780 and the ATi 650 Comob. I currently use the Avermedia
m780. This is a PCIe combo card, I like it but at first wasn't sure. Then I realized I'm
a total newb and forgot to turn noise reduction off on my radeon card.
BTW both the comobo cards I've mentioned above come in PCIe, but I htink you can
external units for the ATi chipsets.
Hybrid - capable of turning both ATSC(digital) and NTSC but only one at a time.
Combo - Two tuners, can record on both or record/watch at the same time.
For digital Cable signal you need QAM capability on your digital tuner. (Be warned, a lot
of cable companys will encrypt their digital hd signal.)
Just remember each tuner can only tune your digital or analog signal. So I get OTA HD on one
and analog cable on the other.

[Great Satchmo]

First, not sure I'd post about torrented television shows.
As far as tuners go, I'm glad I have a PCIe card, but I don't think it's an
absolute must. If you have free PCI slots it shouldn't be an issue, I have
all my PCI slots filled up. Happauge has a PCI tuner card, the1600 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116010).
I believe the happauges are hybrid and the only comobo cards I've heard of are the
Avermedia M780 and the ATi 650 Comob. I currently use the Avermedia
m780. This is a PCIe combo card, I like it but at first wasn't sure. Then I realized I'm
a total newb and forgot to turn noise reduction off on my radeon card.
BTW both the comobo cards I've mentioned above come in PCIe, but I htink you can
external units for the ATi chipsets.
Hybrid - capable of turning both ATSC(digital) and NTSC but only one at a time.
Combo - Two tuners, can record on both or record/watch at the same time.
For digital Cable signal you need QAM capability on your digital tuner. (Be warned, a lot
of cable companys will encrypt their digital hd signal.)
Just remember each tuner can only tune your digital or analog signal. So I get OTA HD on one
and analog cable on the other.

Noise reduction? I'm running a FX6200 and a 6800GT, would these have settings that would affect TV capture?

I know that I get a few channels via QAM here, not many but a few.

I'd already have the pvr-150, so I have SD taken care of, but I'd still like to see if I can get a combo card just to be able to have it work as more tuners. I thought the 1600 was a combo card, but I guess not.

[Great Satchmo]

Well, another question now:


Does Vista even support clear QAM or ATSC in Media Center? Or will this require a 3rd party app (or another OS)?

[wfarid]

not sure if vista supports qam of atsc but for the most part, most cable companies encrypt their HD channels so watching and recording hd is probably not going to happen. The only HD content you will be seeing then is through your HD antenna.

[blakehenry00]

Do any of these cards accept Cable Cards? They are almost look like credit cards.

[silent bob]

Great Satchmo I have been looking for the words to say exactly what you are asking

Voted : Excellent Post !!

I am currently using Vista Ultimate on a soon to be fully functional HTPC Ready for Prime Time except for capture card .
I am running the Asus P5E VM HDMI (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131237)( onboard vid ) and probably use my STB D-tv

michaelkahl is that the 1x pcie? the little slot?

[doublejack]

One can tune in HD stations via QAM in either WinXP or Vista without having to buy additional software to do it. You just need the hardware and maybe some freeware (depending on what hardware you bought).

not sure if vista supports qam of atsc but for the most part, most cable companies encrypt their HD channels so watching and recording hd is probably not going to happen. The only HD content you will be seeing then is through your HD antenna.

Not correct. Cable operators rarely encrypt the HD channels they carry which are also available OTA, and come Feb. 2009 it will be illegal for them to encrypt such channels. So you're not likely to get expanded tier channels such as DiscoveryHD, EspnHD or DisneyHD - those will almost always be encrypted. But network stations like your local major network affiliates - NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox, PBS, etc. - those will be in unencrypted (aka in the clear) QAM.

I live in metro Detroit and I get between 20 and 30 channels via clear QAM. I'm pretty sure that everything I could pull in via an antenna, I already get for free through my cable line.

[cack01]

You can get clear QAM in media center using a HDhomerun. Also the hybrid hauppauge cards can now support clear QAM in media center. But getting it set up correctly has been difficult for most. The HDhomerun is the easiest way to do it at this point.

[Mpegger]

not sure if vista supports qam of atsc but for the most part, most cable companies encrypt their HD channels so watching and recording hd is probably not going to happen. The only HD content you will be seeing then is through your HD antenna.

Not correct. Cable operators rarely encrypt the HD channels they carry which are also available OTA, and come Feb. 2009 it will be illegal for them to encrypt such channels. So you're not likely to get expanded tier channels such as DiscoveryHD, EspnHD or DisneyHD - those will almost always be encrypted. But network stations like your local major network affiliates - NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox, PBS, etc. - those will be in unencrypted (aka in the clear) QAM.

I live in metro Detroit and I get between 20 and 30 channels via clear QAM. I'm pretty sure that everything I could pull in via an antenna, I already get for free through my cable line.

Actually, your both correct. You simply misinterpreted what he stated, which was the same exact thing you stated. :beer:

There will be Cable Card recievers for the PC in the near future, but as of yet, non are available for use without having to buy an entire new PC already equipped with one. This may change later on, but it'll probably take a few years because the broadcasters/cable companies are so paranoid about people stealing/recording thier content for various reasons.

Hauppauge has introduced a HD recorder which uses Component Video (RGB) inputs to record HD content at full HD resolutions. Pratically all cable/sat boxes have RGB outputs, and since RGB does not support DRM, this little device can record any HD channel, including those encrypted premium channels, for the PC. However, I have a feeling if this device gets popular enough, with other companies introducing thier own versions, future cable/sat boxes may restrict the RGB outputs to 480p, like many BD players also restrict the maximum resolution that can output through a RGB connection. Time will tell though, since DRM in general is becoming more and more unpopular as the comsumers are starting to see what a pita and how restrictive it really is.

[ddoggma]

HVR 1250 from Hauppauge, It is doing it all for me. $40.00 OTD If you dont have a good computer get the HVR-1600. It had hardware encoder for recording.

[Mpegger]

The 1250 is still only capable of ClearQAM. So again, any encrypted HD channels, which means most, if not all that you normally cannot get OTA, will not be accessible in HD with that tuner. You would only get the SD signal.

[Great Satchmo]

The 1250 is still only capable of ClearQAM. So again, any encrypted HD channels, which means most, if not all that you normally cannot get OTA, will not be accessible in HD with that tuner. You would only get the SD signal.


So the 1250 does clear QAM (only unencrytped HD) and SD (is it a hardware encoder)?

Then the 1600 is ATSC and SD (NTSC, right?), but nothing else, but DOES have a hardware encoder?


I may check and see what clear QAM channels are available, it may be a nice combo to have those 2 cards...Then I'd get SD (2 cards capable), ATSC (OTA HD), then whatever clear QAM channels available...

[Mpegger]

All the HD internal cards are the same feature wise (the 1800 adds on a FM Tuner) except for the type of card it is (PCI vs PCIe). They all have hardware MPEG2 capture for the analog portion, all can capture ATSC as well as ClearQAM signals (ATSC and QAM are already compressed MPEG2 streams, so they merely write the stream straight to the drive), and all can capture from both the Digital Tuner and the Analog tuner at the same time. Basically, the 1250 is the PCIe version of the 1600. Dunno if there is any benefit to the PCIe version since the PCI bus has more then enough bandwidth for even a 1080i HD MPEG2 stream, even with sub channels and audio included. So pick either one depending on your available slot needs.

Again, available ClearQAM channels on cable or satellite, will be the same channels you can receive OTA (ATSC channel via a indoor/outdoor antenna) with maybe a few others, but nothing premium. ClearQAM is not only cable channels, but also OTA channels. If you need the multi-tuner setup, go ahead with it, but having one card for ATSC and another for ClearQAM will be redundent, since the same channels available OTA, will also be available over ClearQAM (if not more because of better signal strength). A better setup would be to have both tuners using ClearQAM.

[doublejack]

Actually, your both correct. You simply misinterpreted what he stated, which was the same exact thing you stated. :beer:

I think you misread the post I quoted. You and I agree that all OTA HD channels should be available as clear QAM, but the post I quoted stated that OTA was the only way to get these - that in effect all QAM is encrypted.

[Roofles]

I think this has already been answered, but I can't pick it out with all the acronyms flying around.

If I have basic cable coming into my house, and I purchase say the HVR-1250, I will only be able to pick up channels in HD that I could if I used an Over the Air (OTA) antenna?

So even if basic cable includes the HD stream, it still needs to be decoded by the cable box for it to be viewed in HD correct?

[Mpegger]

OTA channels that are available over your cable line, will more then likely also be available in ClearQAM over cable, which the 1250 will decode. Think of the 1250 as a cable ready tuner. You connect the cable line directly to the 1250, without the cable descrambler box, and it will tune in what it can, which of course would be any ClearQAM channels + free channels that cable provides.

[auareldo]

doublejack,

Will you please list some of the channels you are able to get with clearQAM in detroit?

[jediman]

Actually there is a a way to get non clear QAM channels using a cable card tuner without it being prebuilt, but it is a hack and sounds hit and miss and potentially blockable by the evil cablelabs.
And for tonights entertainment:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/05/12/how-to-install-a-cablecard-tuner-in-your-diy-media-center/
I believe this only works in windows media center and as far as I know this is the only way to tune non-clear QAM channels