P4 1.8ghz or AMD XP1900? (Stability)

[richklein]

Hi,
I have been debating on if I should go AMD or Intel for my next upgrade. Saturday is the day so I gotta figure it out kinda quick.
I have been bouncing back & forth between the two companies. I have only had Intel processors but am willing to give either a try I guess.

I am leaning more towards the Intel for stability, heat, & comfortability.

I plan to overclock down the line but my main intention is to have a stable system that I tweak once (well ya know) it it runs perfectly.

I really dont care much about benchmarks & I also could care less if one processor or the other gives me an extra 30 FPS in Q3.

If I do Intel it would be with the Asus P4T-E (478 socket).

If I did AMD it would be with the A7A266-E.

I am not going to be using Raid either way currently.

Any ideas on what I should do? Money isnt the issue at all here both are affordable.

My current system is a P933 so either upgrade will be good for me.

Thanks for any advice,

Rich

[funnyperson1]

for stability and compatibility there is no doubt that if price is no object the P4 is better.....it is about 20-30% slower though....

[richklein]

Well the main thing holding me back from AMD is the Via chipset updates I keep hearing people moan about. The other item is the overclocking factor. I 'think' that the XP's cant be OC'ed without unlocking them.

The p4's seem to over clock easier (from what I read).

I wish you could get a P4 stability with AMD speed.

I dont mind figiting with the setup of a PC but I would get tired of each VIA update causing more headaches.

Oh, do you need to use DDR ram in pairs for AMD?

[funnyperson1]

An Athlon 1600+ is probably as fast as that P4.....AMD is pretty easy to overclock, you can oc without changing the multiplier...but it makes for better tweaking if you can.....P4s are pretty good overclockers....but so are Xps (except for 1800+ and 1900+)....and i yes Via can be a pain...

[richklein]

I am confused about the DDR in pairs for the AMD (is that so)?

I want speed, but I dont really want to spend a ton of time recovering from Via updates & other such nonsense.

I never had a AMD which is why I am hesitant, but I wouldnt mind giving one a shot either.

I wish I could buy both :)

[Burning Phoenix]

I have no problem using stock heat sink/ fan with my p4 1.8.
Rock stable at 2070 mhz!
Look at my sig!
AS for benchmarks i hold my own and noone blows me away!
They are right about 1 thing my scores equal an AMD chip which clocks approx. 500 mhz under me.

[bobt17]

i have not unlocked my xp but i think i have a pretty good oc on my hands here :) look at my sig that is with air cooling to be specific it is the thermaltake volcano 6 cu+ and i am rock stable at 1.6ghz from my default 1.33ghz

[Yodums]

Originally posted by richklein
Hi,
I have been debating on if I should go AMD or Intel for my next upgrade. Saturday is the day so I gotta figure it out kinda quick.
I have been bouncing back & forth between the two companies. I have only had Intel processors but am willing to give either a try I guess.

I am leaning more towards the Intel for stability, heat, & comfortability.

I plan to overclock down the line but my main intention is to have a stable system that I tweak once (well ya know) it it runs perfectly.

I really dont care much about benchmarks & I also could care less if one processor or the other gives me an extra 30 FPS in Q3.

If I do Intel it would be with the Asus P4T-E (478 socket).

If I did AMD it would be with the A7A266-E.

I am not going to be using Raid either way currently.

Any ideas on what I should do? Money isnt the issue at all here both are affordable.

My current system is a P933 so either upgrade will be good for me.

Thanks for any advice,

Rich

If you start to lean towards Intel for your purposes its best you take it since it is the most comfortable for you.

Intel will obviously run more stable, although not keeping up with the performance of AMD.

Hmmm well if your going with the AMD. I heard the 1600+ is a better overclocker than the 1900 and will overclock to 2000+.

My motherboard recommended for the XP is a Epox 8KHA+ or 8K7A.

If your planning to go Intel heres a big suggestion. If you can stay on your feet wait until Intel releases the new chipsets with the DDR support and things will go smooth sailing from there.
Lots of price drops are going to happen and stuff.

My second recommendation is getting a Celeron Tualatin.
They overclock from 1.2 to 1.5-1.6 pretty easy and they match with the XP and the way ol'man explains it, they'll run faster than AMD(Or at least I think).


Happy Chosing.

[cw823]

DDR in pairs? Hmmm. That's a new one to me. Maybe you're confusing it with EDO?

[skrill]

You can't go wrong with the XP 1900+

It's an outstading chip. I run mine at 1.8+ ghz (watercooled) and keep it on 24/7 running United Devices. Never hiccups, coughs or burps. Absolute stablity. I would bet my chip will keep up with or outperform even the 2.2ghz Northwood.

DDR is only slightly cheaper than Rambus now -- so that takes away one reason to go with AMD -- but DDR does not need to be run in pairs. You can mix an match dimm sizes (pretty much) to your hearts content.

Athlon XP's are very easy to overclock and do not need to be unlocked. The run nice and cool at 1.75 Vcore and can be overcloced nicely (a 1900+ will run at 1.7 ghz probably on air cooling at 1.75 to 1.85 Vcore). However, unlock P4's, XP's can be unlocked rather easily. I have mine unlocked. If you decide water cool -- XP's love extra voltage and can really ramp up their clock speeds with voltage and water cooling.

That all said -- unless you are going with a Northwood and planning on O/C'ing to the max (2.8+ ghz) -- you should get the AMD.

Lastly, go with the Abit KR7A mobo. It's easily the absolute best -- for both stability and overclocking (very easy to change the setting and do volt mods). I think Asus is losing the quality battle to Abit at this point (in both the Intel and AMD worlds).

As far as Via issues -- I know of none. Whenever I here there is a new set of 4-in-1's I just pop over to Via's site and download them. Reboot into safe mode -- install the self-installing drivers -- reboot in normal mode and I am done. It's really not a headache at all -- and I love that Via is actively improving their drivers instead of just sitting around watching paint dry.

And 30fps in Q3 is pretty damn significant.

Anyway -- take it from me, go with AMD.

And don't take me for an AMD fanboy. I really like the Northwood and will probably go back to Intel later this year. But between the .18u chips (1.8 P4 vs. XP 1900+) -- there is no reason to go with the any P4 based on the Willy core. The AMD is rock stable at default (and overclocked -- if done right and within reason) speeds.

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by skrill

And 30fps in Q3 is pretty damn significant.

speeds.

ummm....i highly doubt that the difference between 240fps and 270fps is too noticeable....

[Yodums]

Basically anymore fps above 100 is too fast for the naked eye thus not noticeable unless your planning to a TNT2 or something with the new rig.

[richklein]

I guess one thing I have been thinking of is upgradability.

If I got a socket 478 Asus Mobo with RDram, I am guessing that the 1.8 I got now could be upgraded to 3ghz down the line (or anywhere in between).

Do you think I could do the same thing with a A7V-266e (asus)?

I thought the whole archetecture for AMD would change shortly meaning a new mobo upgrade?

[Yodums]

Hmm I wouldn't put my finger on it that Asus mobo will support the Northwood or something I'm not sure.

Since I heard the Northwood will have to go with the Sis DDR chipset so it will be going with DDR ram not Rambus..

I've read that from somewhere so like I said don't put your finger on it.

Well the AMD will need a new motherboard after a new core but if you don't plan to upgrade every 6-9 months then you shouldn't worry.

[skrill]

As far as I know AMD is pretty wedded to the Socket A -- everything to the contrary is just rumor.

In fact, one of AMD's selling points on their XPCentral promotion is that all AMD desktops run on the Soctket A -- while Intel has four different socket-types that their chips currently use. It seems much more likely that Intel would abandon a socket (look at the 428's -- how did they last) before AMD would.

Oh, and 30fps is damn significant when its the difference between running 50fps v. 80fps in something like say RTCW or Medal of Honor: Allied Assualt. But at that point other factors are coming into play (vid card).

Comparing a P4 1.8 to an XP 1900+ is not really fair to the P4. The 1900+ is a much higher performing chip and should only be compared against the 2+ ghz P4's. At that point -- when you factor in price -- forget about it. A 1.8 P4 is probably closer to a 1600+ XP.

That said -- I will probably move to a Northwood only because I am an extreme overclocker and have some very good cooling (and Northwoods look to be outstanding O/C'ers). If I was running stock (or air-cooled) -- I would stick with AMD. (And have lots of money)

If your main worry is stability -- think both AMD and Intel are equally stable at this point (esspecially in non-overclocked settings). So you might as well go AMD for the added performance and economic reasons. Spend the extra dough on a Radeon 8500 or Geforce 3.

As far as the Asus A7V -- I really don't like that board. I again urge you go consider the Abit (or the new Shuttle). The Abit is hands down the best though.

BTW, Northwoods will work in any 478 board (maybe need a bios update) -- the SiS DDR, Intel 845 DDR, and Intel 850 Rambus will all support the Northwood.

In six to nine months the 266 AMD boards will probably be outdated -- and replaced with 333 DDR boards (and chips). But so will the Northwood P4's as they are moving to a 133 FSB (533 total) and Rambus 1066. Thats why I am waiting till summer to go with the new 133 FSB Northwoods.

Basically, either way you go -- in six to nine months your board will be dated. But like Yodums says -- unless you must be on the bleeding edge (like me) -- who cares.

[funnyperson1]

well i dont know, there is no Guarantee that thouroughbred will be compatible with the old Socket A Mobos...AMD has had a history of screwing people over with their mobos not being upgradeable.....the northwood i have heard goes up to 4GHZ

[richklein]

If I wanted to go AMD & Absolutely wanted to stick with Asus, then what board would I get? :)

[SP]

Originally posted by funnyperson1


ummm....i highly doubt that the difference between 240fps and 270fps is too noticeable....

Your limited by the refresh rate of your monitor. It doesn't matter if your getting 1 Million frames per sec if your monitor has a refresh rate of, oh let's say 100Hz, then there are only gonna be 100 frames display on your monitors screen every second because that how often the monitor rescans the image on the screen. I don't know of any monitors that have refresh rates that high and generally as the resolution increases refresh rate drops because there are alot more little dots to scan each time the entire screen is rescanned. So, you may be renedering into the video cards frame buffer at that rate but in reality your not gonna that many frames displayed on your screen in a second. So, yes it is indeed a very moot point.

I know someones gonna mention turning off V-sync. However, turning off V-sync only means that the video card doesn't wait for the monitor to finish scanning the previous frame before rendering the new frame into the frame buffer on the video card. That still has no effect on the number of frames per second the monitor displays on the screen. That is entirely limited by the refresh rate of the monitor. So, even if you turn off V-synch and your rendering much faster into the video cards frmae buffer than the monitors refresh rate all that happens is those extra frames are never scanned onto the screen of the monitor. They can't be becuase the monitor can only scan the screen so fast and therefore only display a certain number of frames per sec.

Anyway, to address the original subject of this thread, if you want stability go with an Intel chip and most importantly an Intel chipset based motherboard made by a company with a reputation for building good quality stable motherbords like Supermicro or Tyan. Via and stability are not two words that occur together very often. Via chipsets are notoriously full of bugs and prone to instability and compatability issues. I don't care who tells you otherwise. You don't see VIA chipsets in server boards do you? There's a reason.

[Yodums]

Originally posted by richklein
If I wanted to go AMD & Absolutely wanted to stick with Asus, then what board would I get? :)

Why Asus when there's alot of choices as well?


Asus A7V266-E is a good one.
ASUS A7M266 another good one.

Although I think these should be your alternatives.

Epox 8KHA+
Epox 87KA
Abit KR7A Raid
Soyo Dragon+

[Caffinehog]

Rich... Athlon XP's can be overclocked via the bus without unlocking them. If you unlock them, you can change the multiplier. Intel CPU's are multipler locked, so you can ONLY overclock them by changing the bus speed.
DDR does NOT have to be installed in pairs. RDRAM does. And RDRAM will probably be phased out soon, while DDR will be going strong for some time.
AMD's need better cooling. Stability isn't much different between the processors. Intel is more expensive.
AMD is changing cores on monday. It remains to be seen how many motherboards become obsolete because of this. I reccommend that you hold out AT LEAST a week before buying an AMD. Intel will probably be changing cores relatively soon, as well.
I reccomend waiting a week, then buying a motherboard that will support the AMD 2100XP, as you will have room to upgrade in the future. Also, after the release of the new core, prices for older Athlon XP's will likely drop greatly.
As I said, the new AMD core will be released Monday, March 4th. Things should start to pan out within a week of that.