Stop the noise!

[jisaak]

Good day. I've been reading these forums for a while now, and have finally summoned the courage to post.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not real keen to overclock. I have a TBird 1.4 that is as fast as I need to go. I play games, I surf, I do a bit of software development (I actually do enough of that at work), and I'm pretty happy with the speed. Okay okay, I overclock just because I like to play around, but I don't want to cool the machine just so I can get a few more megahertz out of it.

I have a problem with the noise my PC makes. I'm afraid I dont know much about the types/sizes/airflow rates of the fans I have in the machine (I didn't build it), but I've attempted to gather as much information as I can by opening up the machine and looking at things.

This is my current fan setup:

Intake Fan
- At bottom-front of machine
- Sunon KD1208PTB3-6 (80mm)

Outflow Fan
- Halfway up back side of machine
- Sunon KD1208PTB3-6 (80mm)

CPU Fan
- On CPU Heatsink
- Blowing down into the Heatsink
- ThermalTake Volcano II

Power Supply Fan
- Power Supply is mounted just above Outflow Fan

Video Card Fan
- Asus Ge3 Vidcard - this is probably pretty quiet

Might as well tell you what I've got:

TBird 1.4 on an MSI K7T266 Pro/RAID
256Mb RAM
Asus Ge3 Deluxe
2x 80Gb IBM 7200 on the onboard RAID

Currently, the only thing I've changed is the mutiplier (up to 11 from 10.5 to get me a whole 50MHz or so increase in speed).

I haven't bothered checking temperatures at idle, but under load I am hitting 42c "System" temperature (does that mean ambient case temp?) and 59c CPU (a bit hot, methinks).

On to the meat of my query here! :)

I would like to reduce the noise this bugger makes. It's sitting on my desktop, and as a coworker of mine once commented, the noise it makes is "a huge disincentive to turning it on".

I suppose the two routes available to me are to replace the fans with quieter ones (the CPU fan *sounds* like it makes the most noise - my hunch is that the air it's pushing down into the heatsink is the culprit) or to go with a watercooling system.

Your assignment: Suggest an alternate cooling scheme for my PC with an eye toward quiet operation. Discuss cost and ease of installation & maintenance.

Thanks in advance,

Jeff

[RainMaQer]

You could always just insulate your case... that should reduce the db's a little... some people use some kind of foam... I saw a couple that just used mouse pads:p Best of all it's cheaper than going to an alternative method:D

[Diggrr]

To just get it quieter, remove the perforated grilles the fans are bolted to. This will also help cooling alot, the grilles are usually 60% hole and 40% steel. (some more some less) You can also mount them with grommets in the holes (vibration is a big noise culprit)

If that's not enough quiet, look into replacing the fan on the cpu.
There's alot of different fans out there, though I must admit I'm not familiar with your cooler (I watercool) and don't know how easy it would be to replace it. You could look through the messages, I know I've heard this one being replaced.

Watercooling is going to set you back 100-200 bucks, and cannot just be slapped into a case. It's going to take some modification to make it all fit and work correctly.

Let me know. And WELCOME to the forums!

[gaccm]

I looked up your case fans here http://www.sunon.com/standard.htm
they are only 28db which means that they should hardly bother you.

most likely its your cpu fan and harddrive that are making all the noise.
If you want good cooling and quietness, you should get a 80mm heatsink. The
Alpha PAL8045 is really nice but it costs $50. If you do get that, then you can get a fairly weak 80mm fan. To check out a lot of fans cfm/noise check out http://gizzo.8m.com/fans.



P.S. I have the same mobo as you, if you do go into overclocking, be warned, if you up the fsb beyond 138Mhz USB support fails.

[jisaak]

Thanks for the responses, guys (girls? who knows?)...

RainMaQer

You could always just insulate your case... that should reduce the db's a little... some people use some kind of foam... I saw a couple that just used mouse pads Best of all it's cheaper than going to an alternative method

Aye, I've done a bit of thinking about this. I've got some 1/2" polystyrene sitting around the house. It's a little thick, but I think it may work. I'll try it.

Diggrr

To just get it quieter, remove the perforated grilles the fans are bolted to. This will also help cooling alot, the grilles are usually 60% hole and 40% steel. (some more some less) You can also mount them with grommets in the holes (vibration is a big noise culprit)

You can say that again! I've got the PC apart (set up on a piece of polystyrene - more on this later), so I might as well cut some holes while it's in pieces.

If that's not enough quiet, look into replacing the fan on the cpu.

*chuckles* How'd you know? Like I said, I've got the PC apart. Got the motherboard sitting on pieces of polystyrene for support, and have got the CPU, RAM, video card, keyboard, and power supply hooked up. I attached the ThermalTake (old CPU fan) and placed it on the Heatsink. It sounded like my whole PC was on! I don't even have the hard disks attached! =)

I then took one of the Sunons, plugged it in, unplugged the ThermalTake, and placed the Sunon on top of the Heatsink. It was MUCH quieter! Of course, the Sunon is running at 800 less RPM (4000 vs the ThermalTake's 4800). The temperature differences (viewing in BIOS) at idle do not indicate much of a difference (both about 41c). Of course, once it's all closed up and in the case, the differences between the two might start to manifest themselves. I don't know if I need to mention the fact that the Sunon doesn't physically fit on top of the Heatsink.. it's a bit too big. ;)

Watercooling is going to set you back 100-200 bucks, and cannot just be slapped into a case. It's going to take some modification to make it all fit and work correctly.

Indeed. I'm not sure I'm willing to shell out the cash. Especially because those 100-200 bucks is 160-320 Canadian (ouch).

Let me know. And WELCOME to the forums!

Thanks! :beer:

I'm currently in the "I wonder what this will do?" stage of my project. Like I said earlier, I've got it out of the case and partially set up out in the open, as right now I'm working on just making sure the CPU gets cooled and trying to keep the noise down. Once I get the CPU solved I'll move on to the rest of the system.

I scrounged up a small fountain pump (60gph) and some 1/4" ID clear tubing. I'd like to play with a water block, just to see if I can get any heat reduction, but there are no local vendors and I can't seem to find the parts to make one myself. And they are kind of expensive if I'm just wanting to try one.

On an interesting side note, I went to Radio Shack (is that Canadian or do you Americans have them too?) on the off chance that they even knew what a waterblock was, and when I asked they looked at each other (there were two guys) and said "We know who you need to talk to". They got their manager out whose father had just made and sent him a waterblock of his own design. I told the guy if his dad wanted to make any more, to let me know (crosses fingers) -- small world, eh?

Anyway. I'm going to continue my fooling around (this is kind of fun! :)). I'll post if I manage to do anything really interesting.

Jeff

[jisaak]

Originally posted by gaccm
I looked up your case fans here http://www.sunon.com/standard.htm
they are only 28db which means that they should hardly bother you.

most likely its your cpu fan and harddrive that are making all the noise.
If you want good cooling and quietness, you should get a 80mm heatsink. The
Alpha PAL8045 is really nice but it costs $50. If you do get that, then you can get a fairly weak 80mm fan. To check out a lot of fans cfm/noise check out http://gizzo.8m.com/fans.



P.S. I have the same mobo as you, if you do go into overclocking, be warned, if you up the fsb beyond 138Mhz USB support fails.

Thanks for the reply!

You're right, the CPU fan is the culprit. I tried just running the Sunons and they're very quiet!

I'll look into new heatsinks! Thanks for the tip! What heat sink/fan combo do you use?

As far as overclocking, yeah, I've noticed the USB power problem. Pretty crappy, eh? That kind of disappointed me when I first experienced it, then read about it on the web.

Any other suggestions (from one MSI mobo owner to another?) =)

Thanks again!

Jeff

[ButcherUK]

Originally posted by jisaak

Anyway. I'm going to continue my fooling around (this is kind of fun! :)). I'll post if I manage to do anything really interesting.

Jeff

Ahh it starts! :)
Soon you'll have an LN2 rig running mark my words :)
Hell with all the cash I spent on watercooling so far I could have bought an entire new system fast than the first probably. But where's the fun in that ;)

[Yodums]

Originally posted by jisaak


Thanks for the reply!

You're right, the CPU fan is the culprit. I tried just running the Sunons and they're very quiet!

I'll look into new heatsinks! Thanks for the tip! What heat sink/fan combo do you use?

As far as overclocking, yeah, I've noticed the USB power problem. Pretty crappy, eh? That kind of disappointed me when I first experienced it, then read about it on the web.

Any other suggestions (from one MSI mobo owner to another?) =)

Thanks again!

Jeff

I'd recommend the Millennium Glaciator II as its full copper and help you bring down those temperatures alot.

And with the good air flow it'll help more.

The glaciator is full copper and near 40dBA, mounted with an Everflow 38cfm fan.

If your raising your fsb too high and your USB goes out(if that's even the problem) then why would ya buy a new cooler unless you want to disable those USB ports.

Yodums

[jisaak]

Originally posted by Yodums


I'd recommend the Millennium Glaciator II as its full copper and help you bring down those temperatures alot.

And with the good air flow it'll help more.

The glaciator is full copper and near 40dBA, mounted with an Everflow 38cfm fan.

If your raising your fsb too high and your USB goes out(if that's even the problem) then why would ya buy a new cooler unless you want to disable those USB ports.


Thanks, I'll look into the Glaciator line.. I believe I saw some posts regarding it earlier (*goes back and reads them again*)..

Although 40dba sounds like it would be pretty loud. My ThermalTake is rated at 31 (according to the website anyway - perhaps I've just got a broken one) and it's pretty honking loud. The Sunons are rated at 28, and the difference between the two is night and day.

As far as the USB cutting out - my purpose in looking for a new cooler is to reduce noise, not to reduce temperature... Although if I eventually do go water-based, it will do both. I'm not keen to overclock - 1.4 is fast enough for me. =)

Jeff

[MikeTimbers]

Get the Alpha 8045 with another Sunon fan like you have already. One of the good things about the Alpha is it sucks air from the heatsink which seems to help reduce wind noise.

[Yodums]

Mike Timbers I don't know if those 80mm Sunon would push enough to keep up with the PAL 8045.

You'll need something like a Delta 68cfm which is LOUD.

jisaak, 40dBA is not loud trust me you haven't seen loud until you go over 50.

Because Glaciator uses the same type of fan that are on your ThermalTake products. They use Everflow fans.

And they are good because my Everflow 60mm pushes 38cfm is only 39dBA while the Delta's push 37.1cfm and are 46dBA.

Yodums
(-:

[pod_1]

jisaak,
here is a site that offer products to reduce noise in your PC:

www.quietpc.ca

and look under the Ultra-Quiet PSUs section, there they have 300W quite PSU (noise @ 26 dB). I just replaced my ENERMAX 350W PSU and this thing is very silent. Usually the PSU is the loudest part of a PC.

Also here is an article on how to reduce the voltage on case fans from 12V to 7V " www.heatsink-guide.com/psplug.htm ". I have done what they suggested and the fans are quite.

One trade off is that the temperatures do raise a little, so use at your own risk.

pod_1

[cjlax5]

Originally posted by jisaak


I haven't bothered checking temperatures at idle, but under load I am hitting 42c "System" temperature (does that mean ambient case temp?) and 59c CPU (a bit hot, methinks).


Jeff

Thats really hot, you should definitaly get a new heatsink + fan

[Yodums]

If your temps are reported as 42 motherboard temperature and 59 CPU I think thats just bollox unless your computer is in the heat of a desert.

[ButcherUK]

Originally posted by Yodums
If your temps are reported as 42 motherboard temperature and 59 CPU I think thats just bollox unless your computer is in the heat of a desert.
I don;t see why, a poorly vented case will get hot and that'll in turn raise the cpu temps. My chip hit 110C on the mobo sensor once, surprised it's still alive ;)

[jisaak]

ButcherUK

Ahh it starts!
Soon you'll have an LN2 rig running mark my words
Hell with all the cash I spent on watercooling so far I could have bought an entire new system fast than the first probably. But where's the fun in that

NOOOooooo!! I've started down the slippery slope, have I? *laughs* Dang. Ahh well.. like I said, I'm having fun! :)

MikeTimbers

Get the Alpha 8045 with another Sunon fan like you have already. One of the good things about the Alpha is it sucks air from the heatsink which seems to help reduce wind noise.

Only thing is, the Alpha's not cheap. I can get a pretty good start on a watercooling for the price of the Alpha... *shrugs*

Yodums

jisaak, 40dBA is not loud trust me you haven't seen loud until you go over 50.

Well, the ThermalTake (Everflow) that I've currently got is rated 31dba. However, I think there might be something wrong with it, as it makes a heckuva lot more noise than the Sunons (and the Sunons are rated at 28dba). Hmmmmm.

pod_1

and look under the Ultra-Quiet PSUs section, there they have 300W quite PSU (noise @ 26 dB). I just replaced my ENERMAX 350W PSU and this thing is very silent. Usually the PSU is the
loudest part of a PC.

That's something I hadn't thought about... I'll have a look into replacing the power supply (will first see what I've got and what kind of noise it is generating). Thanks!

Also here is an article on how to reduce the voltage on case fans from 12V to 7V " www.heatsink-guide.com/psplug.htm ". I have done what they suggested and the fans are quite.

One trade off is that the temperatures do raise a little, so use at your own risk.

Right. Not sure I want to do this quite yet, as I think my temps are on the high side... Will keep that in mind for later if I get the temps down, though!

Yodums

If your temps are reported as 42 motherboard temperature and 59 CPU I think thats just bollox unless your computer is in the heat of a desert.

*laughs*

No, definately not in the middle of a desert (check my location! :)). Could be.. er.. "bollox" as you say. I'm not using any external tools to do the measurements, just relying on the numbers returned from the motherboard through Motherboard Monitor. *shrugs* Perhaps I should head down to Radio Shack and pick up some tools for checking the real temperature...

Thanks for the responses everyone!

Jeff

[Yodums]

If we can have your motherboard it'd be great.

Usually bios updates the false temperature readings.

The 60mm are more high pitched than your Sunon's so they'll sound alot louder sort of.

If you can just measure your ambient temperature than your motherboard should only be 1-3 degrees hotter than that and as for the CPU, Radio Shack sells cheap probes for about 5 bucks which you can put a tip on the CPU and use the LCD display to determine the temperature.

Yodums

[jisaak]

Sure Yodums, I've got an MSI K7T266 Pro/RAID (thought I posted it? Doh! My bad! :))

I think I understand what you're saying about the fans.. but.. how might I measure the CPU temperature without taking the heatsink off? Or does the probe go between the heatsink and the CPU? *puzzled look*

Thanks,

Jeff

[jisaak]

First I want to thank you all for your suggestions. They were well thought-out and each one of them was helpful!

Second, I'm going to disregard all of it. Well, perhaps not all of it.

I've mulled it over and decided to get wet. Coupla reasons:

1. QUIET! Woohoo!
2. Very high coolness factor (as usual, no pun intended)
3. It's one more step down the slippery slope toward liquid nitrogen *laughs*
4. Why not, eh? It's just money.. :)

Once I get my PC watercooled, I am going to insulate the case and start work on running large, quiet fans for whatever air cooling needs I still have.

For those of you interested, here's my plan (I wish I had a digital camera, I'd be taking pictures of what I did today. ahh well):

I've secured a heater core (actually wanted a transmission cooler, but what the heck) from Canadian Tire, some 1/2" inside diameter tubing (14 feet, all they had left) from Steveston Hardware (a local outfit - Home Depot and Canadian Tire were both out of 1/2" ID), some hose barbs, heater tubing, and clamps from Canadian Tire.

I also had the 60GPH fountain pump I purchased earlier this week from Home Depot. Yeah I know, I'm going to need a bigger one.

Today all I did was set up the radiator for use. Gosh I wish I had a digital camera (no web cam either - but I do have a video camera and capture card.. gah.. I'll borrow a digital camera and take some pics), but for now I'll explain how I set up the rad.

The radiator has two pipes coming out of it (both different sizes - one's about 5/8" OD the other is about 3/4" OD (or perhaps larger). I took the heater tubing and pushed it onto the outlet and attached it with a hose clamp. I then "screwed" the hose barb into the other end of the heater tubing and clamped that.

Here's a wussy MSPaint picture:

http://www.jeffisaak.com/gallery/radschematic.gif

I'm currently testing the setup for leaks and it looks like we're fine so far (crosses fingers).

The thing I like about it so far is that I've not had to do any soldering... Not real confident about that one and will approach any project where I have to solder with trepidation.. :eek:

I've ordered a Maze2 from CPU Watercool (It's a Canadian outfit, they resell DangerDen's stuff apparently), and when that arrives I will have the most basic of watercooling rigs. Nothing's in a case yet, but I've got plenty of room in my case for everything (I knew I wanted a big case for a reason!) :)

Anyway, time for me to check for leaks again. Take care everybody!

Jeff

[RainMaQer]

Congrats on the decision Jeff.... Good choice. I truely hope it works well for you. Keep us posted and include some pics (when you can). And as always... Ask away;) Good luck:D

[ButcherUK]

The hose idea should be fine, another no-solder option is to epoxy the barbs on.

[Yodums]

Looks pretty much good.

[Satch]

How about Dynamat material?

[Voodoo Rufus]

Panaflo fans are good, but the Volcano 2 is a screamer. Could replace the fan on that with a PanafloL1A, and maybe even get a bigger heatsink that'll take an 80mm fan instead.

[GoldenTiger]

MSI's KT266 boards (not KT266A) have USB problems when raising the FSB. It was fixed with the KT266A version.

Just get an 80mm-60mm fan adapter and a Panaflo 80mm L1A (21db, 24cfm). Total cost $16 shipped roughly.

Foam: Get some anti-static acoustic Ester foam from foamorder.com. To line my entire full/midtower Antec 1040b costs $28.37 shipped. It's studio-quality foam and *will* silence your PC, unlike Neoprene, dynamat, etc which are designed for physical, not airborne, vibrations.


Looked at later on in your thread... I'll make another post :). Still, acoustic foam combined with watercooling (which is what I'm doing) will be inaudibly quiet :D.

[GoldenTiger]

Here's a copy+paste of a post I made on hardforums.com suggesting a good watercooling setup. I've modified it a little bit.

=======================================

Ideal setup IMO:

Eheim 1250 pump ($44, DangerDen)

Heater Core ($35, DangerDen. Some will say the Black Ice, but it has HUGE waterflow constriction and bad static backpressure)

Spir@l/Maze II Waterblock (DangerDen, $42)

If you can afford cross-country shipping, hit up #rotor of these forums [HardForums] and ask him to make you a videocard block for the memory/gpu(s). Also, if you can get the extra money, snag RAM blocks while you're at it (Crucial RAM can withstand high overclocking, but any RAM can use some help just for the coolness of it :D). If you can think of it, he makes it. A chipset block for your northbridge would be good to get, too. Cross-country shipping isn't too bad, but if you want to order from in the U.S., go to: http://www.cool-computers.com/site/...F3+Cooler%2Ehtm (you'll need silicone epoxy to attatch the RAM part of it... don't use ASTE as it is pretty much permanent. Just use Arctic Silver on the chips, and the silicone epoxy on the edges/corners to keep it attatched).

Tubing: Go to mcmaster.com, and search for: 5157K45

It's reinforced braided silicone tubing. Strong, flexible enough to use, and essentially leakproof (it's like a reinforced garden hose). Not too costly, either.

If you're cooling VideoCard RAM/GPU, CPU, MB RAM, and NorthBridge, get a few Y-SPLITTERS from overclockwatercool.com or dangerden.com. That way you don't cause your components to heat eachother up and hurt your temperature. Keep in mind you'll need 2 for each branch you're making (one to split, one to return) :).

So, adding it all up:

PUMP: $44
RADIATOR: $35
CPU BLOCK: $42
TUBING: $20 (for what you'll likely need)
120MM FAN(s) for radiator: $20 for 2 (subtract $10 if you aren't shrouding for a 1-sucking 1-blowing setup)
WATER WETTER: $8
-------------------------------------
TOTAL FOR BASE SETUP: $149.

*LIKELY ADDITIONS*
VIDEOCARD BLOCKS: $60
NORTHBRIDGE BLOCK: $24
-------------------------------------
TOTAL FOR GOOD SETUP: $233

*NICE EXTRAS*
ESTER FOAM (Acoustic, anti-static) FROM FOAMORDER.COM: $30 (to line my Antec 1040b mid/full-tower case)

WATER DYE: $3

RAM WATERCOOLING: $?? (I'll guess $47 USD?)

EXTRA SURGE PROTECTOR FOR MORE ELECTRICAL OUTLETS: $5
-------------------------------------
TOTAL FOR GREAT SETUP: $318


*TOOLS IF YOU DON'T OWN/CAN'T BORROW THEM*

DREMMEL KIT FROM HOME DEPOT HOTDEAL RIGHT NOW: $44

DRILL: $30
-------------------------------------
TOTAL FOR TOOLS SECTION: $77
Add TOOLS with one of the other TOTALS sections FOR COMPLETE TOTAL.
=====================================
END QUOTE
=====================================

This is what I'm about to do (with everything in the post, plus I'm going to be making a wooden external container to put my radiator and a couple of other misc. things in with more acoustic foam) in terms of what I'm buying :). I too am sick to death of noise on my computer, although I want to overclock as well :D. It's a good idea to get a sheet of neoprene from dangerden.com to put underneath the pump, as it will dampen the noise a LOT as it absorbs physical vibrations. I've spent about 140 hours literally reading up on tons of sites and forums on watercooling over the past two weeks and finally arrived at this setup.

Good review link (Big Mama is now available as the Heater Core from dangerden.com): http://www.procooling.com/reviews/html/radiator_roundup_edition_1_-_8.shtml