View Full Version : So, I'm trying to build a folding farm and don't have a lot of money. What's the...
I'm going to build a folding farm but I'm tight on cash right now. Whats the least expensive board, processor, etc I can get that would do ok folding. I already have a shelf I can use to place them on, but I'm lost at what the bare minimum I should have for a farm.
Are P3/Celeron processors ok for a folding farm? The motherboards I'm getting have onboard video/ethernet, which just leaves the power supply, processors, and hard drives.
If I'm forgetting something please tell me.
WarriorII
05-25-08, 12:25 PM
Check the Stickies.
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=511295
I read through that, it doesn't help in my situation of actually building it unless I missed something.
Shiggity
05-25-08, 01:21 PM
Give us how much you can spend and we'll be able to give you some quotes.
A 4000PPD setup will cost around 500-600$ to give you a rough idea.
You need a Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quad to really get bang for your buck. The E2xxx chips are pretty cheap and if you choose a decent board and RAM the door is open for upgrading to a quad core later.
A cheap board (like a Gigabyte DS3 or an Abit IP35) plus say 2GB of semi-decent RAM and an E2xxx is a good start. Cheap small hard disk (~10GB or more), DVDROM just for the OS install. Toss a simple Linux flavour on it and get the SMP client going :)
$500-600 is a bit much for me right now. I just landed about a dozen PII and PIII computers for free, would they be any good to start farming with? I'm of course going to use my old duron 1.2ghz pc as well. Or should I just stick to the 1.2ghz pc for now and use my 2.4ghz pc when I get a new one?
Audioaficionado
05-25-08, 02:42 PM
Not worth the effort or electrical power usage. I'm not sure the PII computers would return any work units in time.
I just set my 1.2ghz pc up folding. That should return them in time right? Also, to the guy who said $500-600 for one, is that for one or an entire farm? If it's for a whole farm of about 3-4 pcs or something I MIGHT be able to do that. Would anything from 700mhz upwards be ok for folding or no?
What you want in folding is quality, not quantity.
Quantity (lots of slow cpu's), will take a lot of power, produce a lot of heat and a bigger electric bill, while giving you very little points for your trouble.
Quality, (far fewer, but more modern cpu's), will give you more points, use less power, produce less heat, and less headache, because you'll have fewer boxes, and a lot fewer *things* that can go bad, or need to be attended to.
You'll be better off in points, and with far less frustration, with one quad or C2D in your farm, then with 20 PII's, and PIII's, regardless of their speed or cost to you.
You can't fold SMP work units with a P2 or P3. You can with a quad, AND in 5 years, you'll *still* be loving that folding quad. Think long term.
So my current 1.2ghz and amd sep. 2.4ghz won't be good even for now even if I don't have the money for quads and c2d's? So you're saying I shouldn't even waste my time with the computers I have now?
Oh, would 1.8ghz+ be ok or still no?
Shiggity
05-25-08, 04:44 PM
We're not trying to discourage you from F@H, but those machines will just be a waste of your money. Save up for a new rig and then start foldin' :)
OR, if you have a somewhat powerful ATI GPU (1950XT and better), you could fold with that.
...So you're saying even the 2.4ghz and the 2.0ghz computer won't do for this? I'm sorry I don't have the 3.0ghz+ computers that some people have, I just don't have the money for it.
Shiggity
05-25-08, 04:58 PM
...So you're saying even the 2.4ghz and the 2.0ghz computer won't do for this? I'm sorry I don't have the 3.0ghz+ computers that some people have, I just don't have the money for it.
We're not trying to put you down, you have to understand that. We just don't want to see you waste your money on high electricity bills running an older computer 24/7 for a small PPD production.
If you don't care about your electricity bill, go for it. The 2.4ghz and 2.0ghz will be able to do the small stuff.
Is there a way to get a good folding machine though that doesn't cost thousands of dollars then? I was hoping to spend at the most $200 on a farm of folders. Also, is there any way I could group these PIII computers I'm getting into one computer or something?
I wonder if I would qualify for that Adopt-A-Rig program here. My internet nice and on always. Or would I not qualify for it because I'm just starting?
Shiggity
05-25-08, 05:08 PM
We love your enthusiasm to fold, but the best bet would be to hold onto the 200$, save it up until you get 400-500 then go from there.
Not sure about linking your PIII's together.
Talk to harlam357 if you would like to adopt a rig, we're always looking for enthusiastic folders :)
So, is it 400-500 for one folder machine or for a farm of machines? I'm confused on that. I'll send a PM to that guy now then. I wonder if me never have folded but for an hour or two impact my chances of hosting lol. I can guarantee a 98% 24/7 uptime except when Time Warner decides to go a-wall and crap out lol (hardly ever except in storms).
Shiggity
05-25-08, 05:23 PM
The 400-600 price range is where you get the maximum value for point production and can help the folding community the most. Above and below that is a waste to most people here and I would have to agree in terms of just building a rig to fold and do nothing else.
We emphasize this price range because the Q6600 is THE BEST price : PPD cpu for a rig that only folds. However this cpu isn't cheap (~200). Then ram, motherboard, powersupply, etc.
It's a completely different story if you build a computer to do other things and have folding as an afterthought (most people).
Most people here start folding when they get new rigs, I know I wouldn't have folded on my last rig because it was god awfully slow compared to what I have now.
An overclocked Q6600 folding rig will literally beat 30 PIII rigs while using 5% of the electricity (super rough estimate but you get the idea). Quality > Quantity
You can put a 3Ghz quad rig together for $500.
That's your best bet imo.
If I could find a better job in computers or something I'd do that in a heartbeat. But right now my current job doesn't pay enough and I quit college for now (it's to stressful for me right now). Anyone know any entry-level computer jobs that pay decent that don't require a college degree?
2.4ghz is more than enough for my normal computer use, I am serious on folding so I will be buying a folding only machine for as cheap as I can lol.
Leonardo
05-25-08, 05:56 PM
So, is it 400-500 for one folder machine or for a farm of machines?One machine. But keep in mind, as has been stated in so many words above, one quad core Intel Folding with SMP client will produce as much as several PIIIs, Athlons, or P4s. With older single core machines, you would need literally a whole room full of them to keep up with one Q6600 running two SMP clients, maybe even just one client. If you figure power consumption into this, it is less expensive to just save up and pounce on a quad system. Q6600 prices are not going up, and should start to fall around July. You can get solid, high performance Socket 775 boards for less than $100. You can find very good heatsinks for under $50, or even less if you shop the trading forums.
I saw a socket 775 mobo at tigerdirect today for $69.95 =). So, if I build a folder only I would need:
quadcore q6600
not sure which mobo (w/onboard vid, sound, ethernet) works for a q6600
2gb ram? or more or less?
heatsink/fan
cdrom drive and a hard drive
and power supply
that's all I need right? I can just mount the mobo onto a piece of plywood right or should I use the mobo mounts on the plywood?
EDIT: I downloaded the .exe from the official website, should I use that one or no?
...So you're saying even the 2.4ghz and the 2.0ghz computer won't do for this? I'm sorry I don't have the 3.0ghz+ computers that some people have, I just don't have the money for it.
A 2 or 2.4 GHz rig might be just fine - it's not just the speed that's important. What is important for folding is that the cpu in question can complete the SMP work units. Both now, and in the expected future.
Understand that sure, you could get folding for less. But look ahead six months and you'd be unhappy with that choice.
I have seen new quad 6600's AND a mobo for it, as cheaply as $200 plus tax and shipping. Yes, it's rare, but it does happen.
You should use the stand-off's when it's being mounted on plywood for two reasons: first, it adds to the air cooling on the underside of the board, and second, it helps prevent the vapors that plywood naturally releases, from negatively affecting your mobo.
Please look for the recent thread on the $600 folder, it has many specific recommendations, and do read over the specifics and recommendations for your parts, at New Egg. I would not recommend anything from Abit because they simply have nothing for customer support.
This is the $600 thread, right up your alley:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=559084
So is this SMP different then the thing I downloaded from folding.stanford.edu or is is the same thing kinda? If it's better I'll use that now or just use what I download until I get a better rig.
I was scanning tigerdirect.com and came across this C2D. Is this a good deal for the price or can I get something better?
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3827914&Sku=MBM-G35EC-E8400
Leonardo
05-25-08, 07:00 PM
SMP works well on Pentium D, Core 2 Duo, Core 2 Quad, and the newer Intel two-core and four-core CPUs. Also for AMD dual and four-core CPUS. Do NOT use it on any single core CPU. Yes, SMP is what you want for high performance, high production Folding.
1GB RAM will work just fine for Windows XP and Folding SMP. If you run a quad core CPU, then you can run two SMP clients simultaneously, but then I would recommend 2GB of RAM. Right now, one of my Q6600 machines is running two instances of SMP with only 1GB RAM. (one stick of RAM is returned for RMA) It is Folding well and finishing work units well before the deadlines, but the machine lags pretty bad.
Something else you need to think about is power supplies. If you will be running a single SMP client with a quad core, you will need a good mid-grade PSU, but not an expensive model. If you run two clients and have an overclocked quad, you will need a high quality PSU.
I'm not trying to push you into overclocking - let's do things one step at a time. These are just things to consider as you plan the rig. Maybe holding off for a while until you have the money for parts that will work for future, more demanding builds will be the economical choice for the long run.
Audioaficionado
05-25-08, 07:02 PM
SMP is Symmetric Multiprocessing, the use of multiple CPUs.
You need at the very least a fast dual core pentium or AMD X2 dual core to complete these in the short deadlines. Your PIII/II PCs couldn't handle them and the client would refuse to run in SMP mode. The single processor client would run on your PIII PCs but you would use more electricity than the meager points returned. You can try the single core clients out if you want on your old PCs, but we recommend upgrading to at least a cheap dual core so you can run the SMP clients. You don't need to spend $400 to join the SMP_FAH club. If you shop hard, you could build a SMP_FAH capable system for ~$200.
I'll link you to some options later when I have more time. Hopefully some of the other guys here can also help you out. A Q6600 layer is the most bang for the buck long term but you can do it for less and still spank twenty of your PIIIs easily. A Q6600 also will do some serious damage in SETI too ;)
So my PIII's and PII's are really only good for hardware firewalls then and stress relieving bashers?
I'm going to start looking around for some cheap C2D and Q6600 parts. What socket mobo will a q6600 work with and what socket mobo for a c2d?
Socket 775 is by far the most common for both C2D's and quad desktops.
Leonardo
05-25-08, 09:18 PM
So my PIII's and PII's are really only good for hardware firewalls then and stress relieving bashers? In terms of Folding at home, they will work for the traditional, non-SMP Folding client, but will net literally only about 10-15% the production of what quad core CPU would. With Folding, every work unit returned to Stanford University is worthwhile. If electricity were free, I'd say fold with anything. Considering there is a power bill to pay, make it worth your while. That's just the way I look at it. Let me backtrack - I'm not sure if a PII is capable of completing any of the current F@H units. PIII would struggle to complete the easiest ones.
If you shop hard, you could build a SMP_FAH capable system for ~$200True! In the last three weeks I sold two 4GHz-capable Pentium D - Socket 775 combos. Both sold for less than $100. A 400W PSU, one stick of DDR2 667, and $45 heatsink would power either of those combos to 4.0GHz. At that clock, those combos would be good for about 17-1800 points per day, about the same a low-end Core 2 Quad would do.
Core 2 Quad, Core 2 Duo, and dual core Pentiums all use Socket 775.
harlam357
05-25-08, 09:54 PM
Talk to harlam357 if you would like to adopt a rig, we're always looking for enthusiastic folders :)
Ahh, now I see where Bryce got my name for the AAR program... of course, I'll always point whomever in the right direction if contacted. ;)
WarriorII is the man to talk with as far as AAR goes. :attn:
Bryce- my advice is, be patient, read and learn from our membership, setup a couple of your machines you have, get familiar with the client(s), and be active in the forums... every member here is an important contributor to our Team, no exceptions.
Secondly, save that money and get yourself something nice down the road. The wait will be worth it. :)
Leonardo
05-25-08, 11:07 PM
every member here is an important contributor to our TeamTruer words have not been spoken.
thideras (i hope i spelled it right) helped me get together some parts off newegg for my main pc/folder. He thinks I would be able to get 4ghz out of a 2.53ghz 7200 C2D, is this true or something more around 3.6-3.8ghz? That's what he thinks.
WarriorII
05-25-08, 11:22 PM
He's a pretty smart guy. :thup:
Here's a good example. Last time I upgraded, I went from a single core CPU to a dual-core. This allowed me to start folding on SMP. The difference is huge.
AMD Sempron 2500+ @ 1.8GHz on normal FAH client: 200 PPD
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ @ 2.8GHz on SMP FAH client: 1,000 PPD
HDCHOPPER
05-26-08, 05:07 PM
quit often here in az. fry's stores has a Q6600 & mobo for $200.00 (one wendsday saw a deal on a Q6600& 945 chipset mobo for $189.00
just keep your eye open with 200 bucks & )used parts from those other comps you said you can get your hands on) you could get what you want for $250.00 with some ram & get to folding
keep your eye on the sales ;)
thier are some good deals on criag's list too from time to time
05/27/08
Cheapest CASELESS 24/7 Folding Rig I would build right now:
Motherboard with VGA: GIGABYTE GA-G31M-S2L $49.99:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128078R
Overclocks Q6600s to 3.2 with ease.
CPU: Q6600 :$180-200 NEW ($150-165 USED)
http://microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0283289
RAM: ANY PC2-6400 Ram: Like this Corsair: ($27 after Rebate)
http://microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0245599
PSU: Anteq Basiq 350: ($19.99)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371013
Hard Drive: 40GB SATA Drives : ($29.50)
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=ST94015AS-R&cm_mmc=googleproducts-_-HardDrives-_-NotebookHardDriveSATA2.5in-_-ST94015AS-R&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=ST94015AS-R
HSF: Re-furbished Zalman 9500: ($35)
http://myworld.ebay.com/refurbdoc
OS: LINUX Fedora 8 or Ubuntu 8.04 (FREE)
TOTAL: $290-350
HDCHOPPER
05-28-08, 10:17 AM
fry's has a Q6600 & mobo for $219.00 today&tomorrow
(posted may28)
Where's is frys? Can you order online?
Leonardo
05-28-08, 11:28 AM
Fry's a retail computer/tech store chain. There stores are mainly in the western US. I've always been interested in Fry's since I heard of it, but I've never lived in area where there was one. The have an online arm http://www.frys.com/. Unfortunately, their online prices usually aren't anything special.
GIXXERGUY6
05-08-09, 12:37 AM
do we get paid for folding?
I just downloaded the program and am currently running it on my
i7 920 oc'd to 4.0 3 gig ram
1 tb hd 512 9800gtx+
NOW WHAT?
dark bishop
05-08-09, 01:16 AM
you dont get paid for folding, this is for science and the greater good.
what client did you install?
id recomend some notfred's vm's and a gpu2 client.
:welcome: GIXXERGUY6!
Your BIOS should have hyperthreading enabled. The install stickies at the top of the forum is what you need. Best points would be two instances of the notFred's or VMWare client, which would run Linux in a virtual machine, on your i7. You could have two of them.
Your 9800 video card also supports the GPU client (aka GPU2), and you could run one instance of that, as well.
Right now, we're in a folding race with 7 other teams, and would love to have you join us. Our racing folding handle is "T32monkeys" (yes, it's all case sensitive), and the same team number of 32.
You may need to down-clock your system a bit, because the folding client is easily borked by any small instability.
And I hope you'll join in the forum discussions and learn all you can - although we race for points and such, the whole effort is to support medical research. We just have fun with points! :D
It's a marathon - an ultra marathon if you will, so have fun with it. Have you d/l'ed FahMon or HFM monitoring utility program, yet? They're both free, and you'll want one, right away. HFM is brand new, and written by our own Harlam357, no less!
Check the recent threads for the HFM topic, with the link to it. FahMon is at:
http://fahmon.net/
Have you seen your stats page on EOC yet?
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