Starting my walk on the long, hard road of watercooling. Need some direction. [Archive]

Oni

01-07-02, 07:44 PM

DarkArctic

01-07-02, 07:48 PM

http://www.cpuwatercool.com

Their based in Ottawa so you don't need to pay customs charges and big shipping costs. Plus they have a LOT of stuff to choose from.

-DarkArctic

GoldenTiger

01-07-02, 07:49 PM

I want to go watercooling.

Right now, I'm looking for specs on a waterblock, mounting bracket, pump, resivoir and an 80mm radiator (I've got no room in my small case for anything bigger, and I'm not hacking my masterpiece up just to make room for one.)

I've sent a PM to member ol' man about his shweet waterblock that he uses on his celly for some specs and such. Ordering online for me is not really an option, but I might be able to if the situation arrises that I absolutely cannot get something w/o ordering it online.

You have to order online unless you want to mill your blocks yourself and drive up to somewhere halfway across the country to get the pump.

So I need suggestions on what type of pump/resivoir to use, how to power the pump using DC and how to route it through to my PSU so it can fire it up when my system is booted from cold.

Get an inline pump like the Eheim 1250. That saves space and doesn't require a reservoir. Cut a small hole in the BACK of your case to get the DC plug through :). As for the PSU booting, there are some articles on overclockers.com on how to do that. Check out this thread:

http://forums.overclockers.ws/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56104

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated!

Nice case, by the way :)! Using a few small holes in the back for tubing to come in and out of, you can have an external setup for the pump part and put a radiator inside with fans (for silence) :).

DarkArctic

01-07-02, 07:50 PM

Whoops sorry, didn't see that you can't order online.

-DarkArctic

Oni

01-07-02, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by GoldenTiger

You have to order online unless you want to mill your blocks yourself and drive up to somewhere halfway across the country to get the pump.

My mom is going to mill the block for me. I just need mounting brackets and the like.

Thanx for the recomendation on the pump, and I'll definately check that link out. And thx for the kudos on my case ^_^

Oni

01-08-02, 01:36 AM

bump

anybody else?

e_storm

01-08-02, 08:00 AM

here's one article on the main page that covers connections to the PS a bit:
http://www.overclockers.com/tips672/index04.asp

The Overclocker

01-08-02, 11:29 AM

nice case, i think it will be very hard to get hold of an 80mm rediator, i would look at something like the black ice and see if you can fit is at the front, if not try putting it flat on the bottem with a blowhole in the bottem, no one will see it

Voodoo Rufus

01-08-02, 11:37 AM

Here's a picture of my poewr supply with a relay hooked to a 12V line I pulled in from one of the wires.

Oni

01-08-02, 03:30 PM

Thx for the link, e_storm and the pic, Voodoo Rufus.

I have seen 80mm Radiators, so I'm trying to get one. Yeah, they're small, but I figure that it'll be better than inline.

GoldenTiger

01-08-02, 06:06 PM

Don't get a Black Ice. It has a fair amount of constriction and isn't as good as any standard heater core. It costs a ton more than a plain heater core, too. Just get a small heater core and you'll be set. You'd be best off with a 120mm fan, though... even small ones need a lot.

Inline refers to not having a reservoir; it doesn't refer to not having a radiator.

Voodoo Rufus

01-08-02, 06:09 PM

The original Blackice that was tested had 3/8" connections and the 4-pass design. A Blackice Extreme hass a 2-pass design and 1/2" connections. It shouldn't have as big a problem with flow constriction as the previous version. It should be comparable to a heater core, although it stioll costs more. The good parts is that you can mount 120 fans right too it and it looks good.

phiber

01-08-02, 06:55 PM

hey oni?
listen to me
try my new idea of useing a Fish Tank instead of a Radiator.......look at my thread called Fishtank Cooling and you will see.....cheap solution also...all you need is tank (10 gallons more than enuff......) pump and block

eh?

01-08-02, 07:42 PM

have you considered building your own? I built mine for around $60 it will be cheaper for you because you have your own block. but here is what i made mine after right here (http://www.overclockers.com/tips505)

Krusty

01-08-02, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by e_storm
here's one article on the main page that covers connections to the PS a bit:
http://www.overclockers.com/tips672/index04.asp

You mean I can't just take my 13.3v bilge pump and stick a molex connector on it? I kinda took it for granted that, since my computer equipment runs on 12v DC, I could just attach the pump to it the same way. Perhaps the Eheim pumps are different, but now I wanna know if my idea will work before I start screwing with stuff.

Voodoo Rufus

01-08-02, 09:58 PM

Bilge pumps weren't meant for continuous use, while aquarium pumps are.

Oni

01-08-02, 10:40 PM

Krusty

01-08-02, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by Voodoo Rufus
Bilge pumps weren't meant for continuous use, while aquarium pumps are.

Has anyone had any experience with the attwood v500 bilge pump? Will it likely die shortly after starting using it?

ButcherUK

01-09-02, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by Voodoo Rufus
The good parts is that you can mount 120 fans right too it and it looks good.

You should always duct your fans 1-2" off a heatercore or similar obstruction, it cuts noise and increases airflow.

e_storm

01-09-02, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by Krusty

You mean I can't just take my 13.3v bilge pump and stick a molex connector on it? I kinda took it for granted that, since my computer equipment runs on 12v DC, I could just attach the pump to it the same way. Perhaps the Eheim pumps are different, but now I wanna know if my idea will work before I start screwing with stuff.

I can't offer any first hand knowledge on the connections to the PS, as I haven't messed with water cooling yet (will soon though :) ). From what I could gather though, Oni is right, pumps run on AC and thats why they have to either be connected to the PS like the article said, or just plugged in separately.

As for your bilge pump, I can't help ya, I don't know enough about the electrical part of it to help. sry :(

ICEePC

01-09-02, 09:07 AM

Hey guys I found a new one!!! www.maxxxpert.com
:D don't know personally how it performs but the reviews sure say its good.

Newbie_Doo

01-09-02, 02:44 PM

With the exception of the Waterblock and mounting bracket, everything in my watercooled system was purchased at local stores. My watercooling system:

Reservoir: Rubbermaid 1/2 gal storage jar (Wal-mart)
Pump: Little Giant 80GPH A/C Fountain pump (Home Depot)
Radiator: Hayes transmission cooler w/2x120mm fans on intake (Trak Auto)
Tubing 3/8* ID Vinyl (Home Depot)
Various clamps, etc. (Home Depot)

I was originally using a waterblock of my own design and manufacture, and am now using a DangerDen Maze1 on my SocketA board.

If you are handy with tools, there are a great many articles on how to roll your own waterblock here (http://www.overclockers.com/topiclist/index31.asp#WATER COOLING).

Spend some time and research it. You will be glad you did.

Good luck!

N_D

Oni

01-09-02, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by Newbie_Doo
Radiator: Hayes transmission cooler w/2x120mm fans on intake (Trak Auto)

How big is this radiator? Like I said, I would like to keep the radiator as small as possible, and will probably be running the system w/o a resivoir.

Voodoo Rufus

01-09-02, 10:10 PM

The Aqua coil radiator takes an 80mm fan but doesn't have the best cooling ability. Good enough for a low power Athlon I guess.

eh?

01-09-02, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by Oni

How big is this radiator? Like I said, I would like to keep the radiator as small as possible, and will probably be running the system w/o a resivoir. Im going to the junkyard where i usually get my raditors from they have like 2 or 300 there and if you give me some about measurements i can get you one for $10 and then i will ship it to you.

Oni

01-09-02, 11:16 PM

No need to ship me one, I'm sure I could find one out of an old Honda or something, I just want it smallish . . . Like I said, 80mm smallish. It sounds impossible, I know.

Newbie_Doo

01-10-02, 01:02 AM

Try asking for a heater core instead. If you are buying new, off-the-shelf parts, then you could get a smaller version than I am running.

Check the articles link I posted earlier. Spending a week reading ALL of the articles will help immensely. It will also give you a good sense of the evolution of watercooling CPUs from the early days using tupperware and homemade blocks, all the way to where the market is today; including how to use scavenged heater cores, etc. for radiators. You will also see the things that have been tried and worked, and things that have been tried and didn't work well. Learn from the people who went before you, you'll be glad you did.

N_D

Voodoo Rufus

01-10-02, 01:12 AM

Here's a link to the aquacool site with an 80mm radiator:

http://www.infinipro.com/AquaCool.html#

UserName

01-10-02, 01:17 AM

Come on... With that machine you need a nice black bong.

You know you want to...

Everyone is doing it...

It's no big deal...

:burn:

Voodoo Rufus

01-10-02, 01:20 AM

Bongs aren't very portable. Need more maintenance. Bongs evil.

UserName

01-10-02, 01:47 AM

Whole Bongs lighter than just rad. Easy to drain which makes whole machine lighter to move. Your gonna take it apart every month or three to put a new goody in it any way. You got to kleen the rad from all the dust. got to take the whole machine apart to do that. Pressure wash the rad fins. Oh my.

Simplify. Be Cooler. Give your Back a Break. Buy or Build a Big Black Bong for your Baby.

Oni

01-10-02, 02:43 AM

Originally posted by Newbie_Doo
Try asking for a heater core instead. If you are buying new, off-the-shelf parts, then you could get a smaller version than I am running.

Check the articles link I posted earlier. Spending a week reading ALL of the articles will help immensely. It will also give you a good sense of the evolution of watercooling CPUs from the early days using tupperware and homemade blocks, all the way to where the market is today; including how to use scavenged heater cores, etc. for radiators. You will also see the things that have been tried and worked, and things that have been tried and didn't work well. Learn from the people who went before you, you'll be glad you did.

N_D

Thank you for the advice. I had never thought about heater cores. I'll have to ask my dad about that, he knows more about cars than I do.

Thanks for the link, but 54 USD for the rad is a little too much, imho (thats about ~$80 CDN, plus shipping)

And I won't be bonging. Its not that its difficult, but I think it'd end up being more work than its worth for me.

Newbie_Doo

01-10-02, 01:13 PM

My Hayes ran me about $25USD. Used heater cores from a small car, like an Escort, Sentra, or Corolla might run you $5-10CDN from a sympathetic junkman. Most pick-your-part places have small piles of them laying around the lot. Most are larger than an 80mm fan but some creative mounting can solve that problem.

I have my rad mounted in the front of my case:

Newbie_Doo

01-10-02, 01:14 PM

Case front:

Newbie_Doo

01-10-02, 01:14 PM

Behind the grill:

Oni

01-10-02, 01:54 PM

Very nice! I honestly don't think I'd have a problem mounting something like that, I'd just have to break out a dremmel and hack up my back intake a bit, and cover it w/ some nice gutterguard or a couple of grills.

ButcherUK

01-10-02, 03:09 PM

You can;t run addivtives in a bong so you can get lots of corrosion and other gunk in the system. Not so good :P

Newbie_Doo

01-10-02, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Oni
Very nice! I honestly don't think I'd have a problem mounting something like that, I'd just have to break out a dremmel and hack up my back intake a bit, and cover it w/ some nice gutterguard or a couple of grills.

Thanks. I have a pic or two showing the Dremel in action. Sparks about 3 feet long while cutting the opening in my full tower. Make sure that you vacuum up the bits and blow the case out real well with canned air. The shavings will play havoc with the electronics if you don't.

Before you do any cutting, take lots of measurements and pay attention to your desired tubing routes. You want to ensure that no tube has to make too tight a turn or it will kink. Also, you may find that your case has space in the roof for a blowhole-type mount. Some people mount their radiators on the external rear of the case and route the tubes from there. Use you imagination and visualize the possibilities before you do any cutting or spend any money on parts that won't fit.

N_D

GoldenTiger

01-10-02, 11:44 PM

Check out dangerden.com's Heater Core. It's a very good one, one of the best you can get to use with a computer, and costs $35 USD + shipping ($6 if you're getting just the core from there).

Oni

01-11-02, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by GoldenTiger
Check out dangerden.com's Heater Core. It's a very good one, one of the best you can get to use with a computer, and costs $35 USD + shipping ($6 if you're getting just the core from there).

$35 USD is about $55 - $60 CDN, plus shipping, plus the fact that I don't have a credit card means no DD heater core for me.

stepback

01-11-02, 02:41 AM

I went with a Rule live well pump. There 12v 700gph and continous rated. I got the "STC" Series PN: 203STC

Check it out here:

http://www.rule-industries.com/livewell.htm

I will post pics of my pump and reservoir when i get home from work in the morning. I will have the last part to my watercolling setup today. Be cooling jagged edge waterblock :) I will post pics of the whole system next week showing all mods.

My system:

Msi Kt266 Pro
256 meg DDR 2400
AMD Xp 1800+
Adaptec 2940 soon to be a 29160
Vodoo 3000 AGP soone to be a visiontek GF3 TI500
2 x 18.3 gig Seagate baracuta's SCSI3
yamaha cdrw, 52x cdrom, 31/2flop
Powmax 500watt ps
YeongYang YY-0221B case
Becooling jagged edge waterblock
4x4x4 marine box with Rule 700 gmh live well pump
1987 ford escort heatercore

Newbie_Doo

01-11-02, 09:56 AM

The number one problem that you will have when using a 12V pump is power supply size. Check the amperage draw on the pumps. Add that to the draw on the fans and the peak draw on your drives and you will find that MOST PSUs won't manage it with stability.

Get a pump that runs on AC.

I have my watercooled computer plugged into a surge protector that the pump is also plugged into. Can't run the computer without having the pump running as they use the same AC source. Simple and effective. If I forget to switch the pump off, the most heat I gain from the pump overnight is about 10C, which is disspiated VERY quickly as soon as the fans turn on with the computer.

Cutting a hole for the pump plug is pretty easy, and I have sealed mine up with black tape. Cable tie the cord to the edge of the case so it isn't falling across your components and don't worry about it.

N_D

GoldenTiger

01-11-02, 11:32 AM

Ask your parents to let you use their CC and give them the cash up-front, then :).

Wa11y

01-11-02, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by Newbie_Doo
Case front:

Antec KS-188? It looks very similar to my KS-188, but with more holes (I haven't modded my case).

Newbie_Doo

01-11-02, 12:11 PM

Supermicro SC750A. A virtual clone of the Addtronics full-tower. Now running an Enermax EG465P-VE 431W PSU. It came with a Sparkle 300W.

Newbie_Doo

01-13-02, 07:43 PM

Here (http://www.supermicro.com/PRODUCT/Chassis/sc750.htm) is the link to my case, a new version SC750A. The Addtronics (http://www.addtronics.com/7896A.htm) 7896A is the same as the older version of my case, and the front and side panels are slightly different, but I believe they are made at the same plant in Taiwan.

I looked at the Addtronics, and liked the Supermicro better.

Notice that these are full-towers. Oni has a mid-tower and from his pics, it is pretty tight inside. It would probably be better to go with a 4x4x4 watertight junction box from the Depot (like Joe Citarella did here (http://www.overclockers.com/tips85/)) and then screw it to the floor of the case. Routing the hoses should be easy from there.

N_D

Oni

01-13-02, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by Newbie_Doo
Notice that these are full-towers. Oni has a mid-tower and from his pics, it is pretty tight inside. It would probably be better to go with a 4x4x4 watertight junction box from the Depot (like Joe Citarella did here (http://www.overclockers.com/tips85/)) and then screw it to the floor of the case. Routing the hoses should be easy from there.

N_D

I was considering that, actually, but I'd have to find a nice AC submersable pump @ about 150 GPH. Idk where I could get one other than online.

Newbie_Doo

01-13-02, 10:00 PM

Why 150GPH? I am using an 80GPH (http://www.littlegiant.com/LittleGiant/PondWorks.nsf/WaterGardenProdWebView/DB0D2924BB3227C48625668E00524676) pump on a T-Bird. Granted you will have to have higher flow rates if your reservoir is smaller, but 150GPH is overkill.

Your flow rate needs to be fast enough to carry the heat away from the processor, yet slow enough to transfer it away through the radiator.

I have seen many people complaining here about their temps being too high, only to find out that they are using super high flowrates with small capacity systems (inline systems) and small, low-capacity exchangers/radiators. The heat doesn't have anywhere to go in the amount of time the coolant spends in the radiator.

Higher flowrates are not the be-all end-all answer. Efficient use of the transfer properties and carrying capacity of the transfer medium is what will maximize your cooling system. You will not be able to completely rid the system of heat gained by the coolant while the system is running. The trick is to find a nice balance such that the system is only running a few degrees C above ambient. Good airflow is a must. So is having sufficient reservoir volume. Larger volume means more gradual fluctuations in coolant temps and your radiator will have an easier time ridding the system of heat due to the smaller overall heat gain in the cooling system.

N_D