2 Rads in 1 loop?

[Wheater]

Hi everyone.

I have orded a new case that includes a water cooling kit and all the accessories. I have hopes that I can have 2 Rads in 1 loop, this is because I want maximum cooling for my hardware.

I have this idea, Resivauir > Pump > Rad1 > CPU > Rad2 > VGA > Chipset > Resivauir.

Will this work? I am not sure if 2 rads will affect the performance, flow rate and all the rest. Let me know what you all think and if this will/wont work.

I have noticed that there is another thread on here asking about a good 120mm rad, this could be out of date, im not to sure though.

So how about a good 120mm Rad? you can only supply this info if my idea above will work.

Thank you people

[Badbonji]

MY water cooling has 2 radiators in it , one 120mm and a 240mm and it works just fine. Although I only use it to cool the CPU.

[BLOOP!]

Will work but you'd get a hit on water flow. What pump are you getting?

[muddocktor]

I will be doing this very soon myself. I have a dual fan heatercore presently in my loop, just cooling the processor. When I get back in from offshore, I will be putting an 8800GTX 512 under water in the loop and also adding a PA120.3 to the loop too. I'm not worried about the flow rate because I am using an Iwaki pump that has very good head pressure.

As for the extra radiator, what do you want to use? A single 120mm fan rad, dual fan or triple 120 mm fan radiator as an addition to your loop.

[gimpster123]

i would probably go with a second pump to handle the extra restriction of the second rad

[smokie mcpott]

if you got a thermaltake LCS included with a case, send it back, and dont pay for it. air cooling is better than that kit

[n3xu5]

I've recently learned about heat loads, and if I were to offer a tip it would be that of heat loads. Make sure your combined rads can handle the total heat load on one loop. I know that is not very clear, but here's an example. If your cpu is overclocked and puts out 100w of heat load, then you will need to add anything else that touches the water loop to that load. Most pumps ... have around a 15w heat load, and gpu's are the killers.

From what I can find, an 8800 GTX idles around 187w and loads at around 304w ... you have an Ultra as per your signature so your numbers may be slightly higher.

100 + 15 + 304 = 419w heat load. Which is quite a bit ... most people consider 400w-500w a lot of load. The higher the heat load in a single loop, the higher the temps overall. if you have 2x120 radiators in a single loop, that would be splitting the heat load between the two for 210ish per 2x120 which is good for a 2x120. Thus lowering the temps to acceptable levels. Unfortunately, not all radiators are listed with their appropriate maximum heat load capacities, but you can sometimes guesstimate based on other peoples works like Martin from Martin's Liquid Lab (http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/). He has some of the more popular radiators on his site that he's tested thoroughly.

Here's a quick way to determine your heat load ..

PSU Calc Lite (http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp)

Note: the 38w it already has listed in its summary, we need to subtract that value after we calculate.

I've selected Core 2 Extreme 9650 stock (no o/c), 8800 Ultra Video card, and Swiftech MCP 355 (pump). That gives us 270w now we subtract the 38 to give us 232w. Now here's the tricky part, understanding that 232w is our minimum heat load because the psu calc does not take into hand that the video card has a max load wattage as well. So its basically accounting for minimum wattage requirements. The best way to my knowledge to find out what your video card will produce heat wise is to look up a review on it or a article it is included in and find its idle / load wattage power draws.

Splitting the loop into two separate loops even yield better temps, because they are not combined and have a lower heat load. When people do this, it gives their cpu a better temp on load, and their gpu acceptable temps that are still better than what you may get on air.

I never had the chance to read this type of explanation when I recently started to inquire into / understand heat loads, so I hope this helps you to some degree.

[SuperDave1685]

If you want two rads in one loops, you can't go wrong with 2 Thermochill PA120.2's. They're 2 x 120mm radiators with a good cooling capacity and excellent flow. Thermochill has their heat load listed on their data sheets. They're the best you can get. I promise you won't be dissapointed if you get them!

[Rickpatbrown]

I've selected Core 2 Extreme 9650 stock (no o/c), 8800 Ultra Video card, and Swiftech MCP 355 (pump). That gives us 270w now we subtract the 38 to give us 232w. Now here's the tricky part, understanding that 232w is our minimum heat load because the psu calc does not take into hand that the video card has a max load wattage as well. So its basically accounting for minimum wattage requirements.

Why would a PSU calculator give minimum values? It should show the maximum amount of wattage necessary to run those components. The heat output will be slightly less than this because some of the energy will be used to do work other than heat generation.

Make sure to indicate maximum overclocking with the PSU calculator. This is were heat is really gonna be the issue. This is why we water cool. FASTER! . . . HOTTER! . . . MORE VOLTAGE! Oh my . . . what's that smell?

I have an E8400 at 3900Mhz 1.4v and an 8800GTS (G80) overclocked -I forget- stock voltage. All this is on a double heater core (one radiator, two 120mm fans long). Temps are just fine. I wish I could give you water temps, but I can't find a glass thermometer anywhere.

I just bought two 4850's and plan to put them in the loop. I imagine they will add too much heat, but I'm gonna see what the temps are and report back.

[Wheater]

Thanks for the Info people. I might put a second pump in my loop then.

Will work but you'd get a hit on water flow. What pump are you getting?

I dont know what Pump i am getting with the case however I already have 1 pump. the pump i already have is MCP655 12V DC, I think its a good one but im not sure.

if you got a thermaltake LCS included with a case, send it back, and dont pay for it. air cooling is better than that kit

The case i have orded is the Xaser VI VG400LBWS, - http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Chassis/fulltower/XaserVI/vg400lbns.asp

[dealmaster]

Would a MCP655 be enough for a triple and double Swiftech rad in the same loop with a CPU and GPU full coverage block? I'm possibly going to be in this same situation when the 4870X2 comes out, so I wanted to find out if I'm going to need 2 pumps or if the MCP655 (or another strong pump for that matter) would be sufficient.

For what it's worth, I was planning to cool an E3110 at 4GHz or higher and a 4870X2 when it comes out. Sorry, Wheater, I didn't mean to hijack your thread, but it was really similar to my question.

[Wheater]

Would a MCP655 be enough for a triple and double Swiftech rad in the same loop with a CPU and GPU full coverage block? I'm possibly going to be in this same situation when the 4870X2 comes out, so I wanted to find out if I'm going to need 2 pumps or if the MCP655 (or another strong pump for that matter) would be sufficient.

For what it's worth, I was planning to cool an E3110 at 4GHz or higher and a 4870X2 when it comes out. Sorry, Wheater, I didn't mean to hijack your thread, but it was really similar to my question.

Thats ok man, Im sure people would rather have 1 thread about the same thing than have multiple threads about the same thing.
Im not expert as you might be able to tell from my question, but I would get 2 pumps for your loop, Triple Rad plus all them blocks.. i would get another pump dude.

[smokie mcpott]

i disagree. i think the mcp655 is plenty powerful enough to run that setup

[Giz]

I'd disagree too. I've got the mcp655 running through a triple rad and it's got awsome pushing power. My rad sits outside on top of the pc case. No flow issues.
If you DO go for 2 pumps, i would fit both the same. eg. 2x mcp655's. Otherwise if you use different pumps, the flow rates won't be the same, and the more powerful one will try and force water through the slower/weaker pump, or worse, suck it dry.

[n3xu5]

i disagree. i think the mcp655 is plenty powerful enough to run that setup

I'd disagree too. I've got the mcp655 running through a triple rad and it's got awsome pushing power. My rad sits outside on top of the pc case. No flow issues.
If you DO go for 2 pumps, i would fit both the same. eg. 2x mcp655's. Otherwise if you use different pumps, the flow rates won't be the same, and the more powerful one will try and force water through the slower/weaker pump, or worse, suck it dry.

+1 for the MCP655 ... its a good pump.

Technical specifications
Nominal voltage 12 V DC
Operating voltage range 6 to 14 VDC
Nominal power (@ 12 V) 24 W
Nominal current (@ 12 V) 2 amps
Motor type Brushless, microprocessor controlled
Maximum head 10 ft (3.1 m)
Maximum discharge ~ 317 GPH (1200 LPH)
Connection size ½" barbs
Maximum pressure 50 PSI (3.5 BAR)
Temperature range 32 °F to 140°F (0 °C to 60 °C)
Electrical connector Molex 4 pin
Weight 1.4 LB (650 gr.)
Impeller Housing material Noryl®
Our noise measurement (non lab environment) 33 ~ 34 dBA in a quiet room @ 2'

69.95 @ Jabtech (http://www.jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCP655-B-12-VDC-Pump-Without-speed-controller-pr-3803.html) In Stock, and the cheapest I could find!

[dealmaster]

Do you guys recommend the one with the speed controller, is it quieter?

[n3xu5]

Do you guys recommend the one with the speed controller, is it quieter?

I've read that the higher wattage puts more heat into the water ... before going with either pump, please do your own research. Some people say the MCP655 is loud ... same say they cannot notice it. I know new tops are being made for it now ... so soon we may see better flow rates with the MCP655.

[Rickpatbrown]

I can't hear my MC655 at full blast over my high speed yate loons. I like the speed control knob for bleeding though.

On a side note -I wish the controller was actually a knob and not that little red thing that you need to us a finger nail or screw driver to turn.

They're making tops for the MCP655? I didn't know that this was possible.

[schmide]

From what I can find, an 8800 GTX idles around 187w and loads at around 304w ... you have an Ultra as per your signature so your numbers may be slightly higher.


I think you're off by about a factor of 80-100w.

I'm pretty sure the GTX comes in at under 170w load, so conservatively 200w max for the GTX ultra. Considering 200w = ~170 kCal/h and most rads can dissipate in the 1500-2500kCal/h range, almost any 240mm or 360mm fan radiator can handle your setup just fine.

[lokitexas]

Just FYI I have my MCP655 running a GPU, CPU, 1 120.3, and 1 120.2.

[||Console||]

I have faith next weekend that my d5 will be fine with a cpu block 2 gfx blocks 2 3x120 rads .

[deam]

I'm sorry to hijack this thread as well. I was about to make a post asking the very same question, but thought it would be redundant, and better for searching by others later.

I'm currently running an old WC setup, an eheim 1250 with a 120mm BIX and an MCW6002 waterblock on my P4 530J.

I was intending to build a new case that had two mcr320 radiators in one loop. For now, and I realize this is overkill, I was going to chain the radiators together and only have the one block in the loop, with the intention of adding GPU cooling down the road.

My first question, which I think will be directly related to my second question, is whether this will work relatively effectively(both with just a CPU and later a GPU (core only) block). [I understand that a dual loop setup will provide better temps for individual components, but am trying to avoid that complexity due to space considerations].

My second question is whether my eheim 1250 will have the power to run a dual rad loop, with either one or two blocks. If not the 1250, will a DDC 3.2 with a top be sufficient?

Thanks for the help.

[muddocktor]

I also own a 1250 and I don't see why it shouldn't do well with a dual radiator setup. That's a pretty decent pump as far as pressure is concerned and is dead reliable. If you want to experiment before you buy a new pump, then rig up your new loop with the 2 rads and your waterblock and run the end of the loop from your second rad to a bucket you can measure water in and rig you up another bucket or something for you to feed the intake of the pump.Then you can time how fast it takes your loop to pump a gallon of water.

[deam]

I also own a 1250 and I don't see why it shouldn't do well with a dual radiator setup. That's a pretty decent pump as far as pressure is concerned and is dead reliable. If you want to experiment before you buy a new pump, then rig up your new loop with the 2 rads and your waterblock and run the end of the loop from your second rad to a bucket you can measure water in and rig you up another bucket or something for you to feed the intake of the pump.Then you can time how fast it takes your loop to pump a gallon of water.

I haven't looked at WC equipment for years, and from trying to get back up to date I was under the impression that the 1250 didn't have the pressure necessary for restrictive loops.

[n3xu5]

I think you're off by about a factor of 80-100w.

I'm pretty sure the GTX comes in at under 170w load, so conservatively 200w max for the GTX ultra. Considering 200w = ~170 kCal/h and most rads can dissipate in the 1500-2500kCal/h range, almost any 240mm or 360mm fan radiator can handle your setup just fine.

Source @ [H]OCP (http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTUyNCw4LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==)

http://www.hardocp.com/images/articles/1214363351CrDBh6XGXC_8_4_l.gif

[||Console||]

Source @ [H]OCP (http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTUyNCw4LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==)

http://www.hardocp.com/images/articles/1214363351CrDBh6XGXC_8_4_l.gif
He is talking heat load you are talking voltage

[Ichelo351]

That graph is total system wattage measured at the wall, to get the amount used by the GPU, you would have to subtract the rest of the system from it.
Idle 187-109=78 watts
full load 304-109=195 watts
I would say those are much more reasonable numbers... That being said, that is raw power usage at the wall, if you assume an 80% efficient PSU, the amount of watts going into the actual cards would be 62.4 and 156, and not all of the power is going to go to heat, so the actually watts of heat released at the GPU would be less then that.

[schmide]

Beyond what was previously said, they're using a qx9650 at 3.66ghz. At that speed and most likely overvoltage the CPU will jump a fair amount of watts under load. I stand by my numbers in my previous post.

[schmide]

He is talking heat load you are talking voltage

Voltage is a measurement of potential energy.

I'm talking watts as in unit of power that is equal to unit of heat or joule. One watt equals one joule per second. Since everyone is more familiar with the calorie (or kilocalorie a 1000 calories i.e. the unit on food), most units of heat and energy are represented by them. 1 kilocalorie = 4184 joules = 4184 watt seconds.

[muddocktor]

I haven't looked at WC equipment for years, and from trying to get back up to date I was under the impression that the 1250 didn't have the pressure necessary for restrictive loops.

It has plenty enough pressure to work well with a Storm Rev 2 waterblock in a loop (I'm running that on my E6300 system), so if you use a less restrictive block like a Fuzion I would think it would do just fine with dual radiators.

[deam]

It has plenty enough pressure to work well with a Storm Rev 2 waterblock in a loop (I'm running that on my E6300 system), so if you use a less restrictive block like a Fuzion I would think it would do just fine with dual radiators.

Do you also have a GPU block in the loop? I'm intending to add a GPU block into the potential loop with the two rads, and so if a new pump would be necessary to replace the 1250, it would not be unreasonable to purchase it in advance of the need for it.