DVD upscaling

[pejsaboy]

Since my nearly-two-year-old broke the tray on my old dvd player, I figured I should get a new one when I picked up my HDTV. I picked up one of the ones that does upscaling to 1080p, which is nice since everything isn't either stretched or cut off. I dunno how they do it, but it's great :)

Anyhow, I've been planning to rip all my dvds to an htpc, but I started thinking about the upscaling factor, or lack thereof. Is there a program to rip or encode a movie into the 16:9 aspect ratio if it isn't a widescreen dvd? I'd like to bypass the act of putting the dvd in, but some of my dvds aren't the widescreen editions. If it can't be done, I may just bypass the htpc idea...

[mrgreenjeans]

Several programs and utilities for upscaling DVD's on a HTPC, however, I know of nothing that will 'rip' a 4:3 to 16:9. and as far as playback, there's nothing I know of that playback without 1) either distort the picture, or 2) crop it to fit.

[Mr.Guvernment]

yes, any program would crop to fit, www.doom9.org may have some tutorials.

[pejsaboy]

Which programs might those be, mrgreenjeans? I'd prefer to upscale rather than crop to fit :)

[tom10167]

Wait, you mean it takes a 4:3 picture like on an old TV show and fits it to 16:9 without stretching or cutting anything?

I really do not see how that is possible.

EDIT: Are these useful when using an HTPC-to-monitor or only when going to a TV?

[pejsaboy]

I'm not sure how it works either, but I do know that a normal 4:3 DVD doesn't look stretched or cutoff. It definitely doesn't have any better quality, but it doesn't look like you're watching broadcast television on a widescreen anymore :)

[tom10167]

oh, so it does put black bars in you mean, and keeps it at 4:3 ratio.

I'm so confused. :(

[pejsaboy]

No, no letterboxing. It's the strangest thing. It boggles the mind that such a thing could be possible, I know.

[Mpegger]

Could be a combination of stretching and cropping being used if it really appears that good. Any NTSC DVD viewed on a PC screen will be showing more then you would normally see on a TV because of overscanning. There is always a portion of the picture on the edges that are blocked out by the case of the TV. Directors know this and even the cameras used to film have the usual boxes within the viewfinder/screen so that all the action is centered within. This way, once it makes it to TV, what is blocked off isnt anything important to the program itself. So one could crop the top and bottom of a NTSC 4:3 DVD program, stretch whats left out to 16:9, and still look good.

Oh, the animation "Justice League Unlimited" actually used this little trick. When the episode was shown at its normal viewing time, it was in a 16:9 format. When it was shown again at its repeat time, it was shown in 4:3. All that was done for the 16:9 showing was that black bars were added to the top and bottom of the original 4:3. The creators of the show in a interview answered a question that fans had about this, and said that the original animation was made with 16:9 format in mind and so there was never anything important to the show or on screen action animated in the top and bottom areas. The 4:3 is the original animation, but can easily have the black borders added to make it 16:9.

I'm sure this wasnt the only program on TV that did this, especially in the past few years when widescreen TVs were starting to come out.

[mrgreenjeans]

Upscaling improves the resolution, and then the picture is cropped to the proper ratio. There is no way I am aware of to 'change' a 4:3 to a 16:9. My set up uses ffdshow and zoom player through Nvidia's Pure decoder, utilizing a number of codecs from each program. You go to this site (http://www.htpcnews.com/forums/index.php?showforum=20) to learn more about your options and specific set ups.

[mrgreenjeans]

This way, once it makes it to TV, what is blocked off isnt anything important to the program itself. So one could crop the top and bottom of a NTSC 4:3 DVD program, stretch whats left out to 16:9, and still look good.

When it was shown again at its repeat time, it was shown in 4:3. All that was done for the 16:9 showing was that black bars were added to the top and bottom of the original 4:3. The creators of the show in a interview answered a question that fans had about this, and said that the original animation was made with 16:9 format in mind and so there was never anything important to the show or on screen action animated in the top and bottom areas. The 4:3 is the original animation, but can easily have the black borders added to make it 16:9.
:confused:

I think you're a little confused on this one. It all depends on the format of the originating source. Most stations don't 'add' bars to make a program 16:9, the source material is 16:9. they will 'crop' 16:9 to have a 4:3 and when this happens, you will lose data, period. As to its impact on the program, that is up to one's personal tastes and subjective view. Some of the Hi-def channels will take a 4:3 and stretch to a 16:9 which is very annoying.

Widescreen films can lose a ton of on-screen information when reduced to a 4:3 format. This can be especially noticed during conversations when the 'camera' is cut back and forth between characters when in the original format both characters are portrayed on-screen simultaneously. I doubt any producer or director would go to the expense of filming in 16:9 or wider, yes there are other film resolutions wider than 16:9, think IMAX, to include, in your words, "never anything important." Try viewing a 4:3 cut of Blade Runner vs. the full director's cut. No freakin' comparison!

[Mpegger]

I'm not confused about this one. Read up on the production of Justice League Unlimited and you'll see what I mean. I wish I still had the clips that I had recorded from TV, because you could clearly see exactly what it is I'm talking about.

Yes, the video is formatted in 4:3, but again, nothing important happens in the top or bottom areas so that it can easily be turned into 16:9 format for widescreen. And what I mean by nothing important, is that you wont see any speaking characters head cut off, or an important visual in those areas.

Some TV shows are also produced this way. Makes it easier to cater to both 4:3 and 16:9 setups. Film with 16:9 in mind, but dont remove the top and bottom portions to have a 4:3 output.

So it isnt 16:9 being reduced to 4:3. Its 4:3 being cropped to 16:9, with the 4:3 purposely recorded with everything happening in the center, as if it were originally meant to show in 16:9.

Back in the day before 16:9 TV sets, there were movies shot in the opposite fashion, where the action is (for the most part) purposely kept in the center of the frame of a 16:9 film, so when cropped for 4:3, it wouldnt be a big deal for the average consumer. Now-a-days though, with widescreen TVs finally becoming the norm, this no longer is done.