Bong's 2.0

[UserName]

I just found you guys after doing alot of this on my own. Happy to be with my people.

Is there a form on just bongs where this should go? If so tell me and i'll delete this

Has anyone Noticed that the exit temps of bongs are cooler than ambient!
This is cool and humid air so it has lots of BTU's in it.
Has any one thought to use it to cool the case or run it through a air to air heat exchanger to cool the incoming air to the Bong? (Of course we want no humidity in the incoming air!)

I also noticed a discussion on is this cooling convection or evaporation. Without doubt it is evaporation. If it was convection the exit temps would have to be warmer than ambient, by definition.

[The Overclocker]

welcome to the forums

the exit them is some bongs are lower then ambient because the bong works by creating movement with the water and making it evaporate, when a liquid evapoates it leaves the surface abit cooler, if there is enough evapation then it will go below ambient

the air coming into the bong would probably work as well no matter how hot/cold it was because it just helps evapation. however a air conditioner or dehumidifier supplying the incoming air would show improvements.

[nihili]

I think if you'll check with a thermometer you'll find that the exit air is actually a bit warmer than ambient. It just feels cooler because it is below your skin temperature and more humid. The humidity gives it a greater thermal carrying capacity which means it can take heat from you quicker. That's why it *feels* cooler.

nihili

[Bender]

Welcome to the forums UserName. I'm always glad to see new people here.

[UserName]

This isn't as simple as we might think.

If it is a mostly evaporative cooler then we want air to be as dry as possible. Warm increases the evaporation potential so that's good too!

If it is mostly convection we want it as cool dry as possible.

I suggest if the exit air is below ambient then it is an evaporative cooler and convection played no (or very small) role in the cooling.

nihili;

Certainly it would feel cooler due to its BTU potential.

I see people with a measured exit temp below ambient.
For example Joe's Data (http://www.overclockers.com/articles389/index06.asp)

I was thinking that there had to be a mistake because that’s the physics of convection. Warm air out. But if reality says otherwise...

I think we can rationalize it when we recognize the energy potential in the phase change of water. And change our hypotheses to an evaporative cooler. Evaporative coolers generally see cool and humid air out

[Jeniva]

Welcome to the Forums, And yes you did post this in the Correct area!..(shadow's gonna like this) :D

[nihili]

Originally posted by UserName
I see people with a measured exit temp below ambient.
For example Joe's Data (http://www.overclockers.com/articles389/index06.asp)

I was thinking that there had to be a mistake because that’s the physics of convection. Warm air out. But if reality says otherwise...

I think we can rationalize it when we recognize the energy potential in the phase change of water. And change our hypotheses to an evaporative cooler. Evaporative coolers generally see cool and humid air out

I was actually thinking of it in terms of conservation of energy. Given that the exit water has lower energy than the intake water, the exit air has to have higher energy than the intake air. (I'm assuming other energy loss is negligible.) For substances of the same composition, lower energy = lower temperature. Thus on this basis I figured that the exit air would have a higher temperature than the intake air.

The error seems to be in the assumption that there is no significant difference in the composition of the intake air and the exit air. Apparently the increase humidity is, at least in some cases, sufficient to allow the exit air to carry a higher energy at a lower temperature. This makes some sense as humid air has more thermal carrying capacity than does dry air.

Now the question. Can anyone figure what conditions will lead to the greatest decrease in exit air temps?

Hmmm, here's an idea. Given the greater themal capacity of the humid exit air, what would happen if you used it to precool the intake water by blowing it past a radiator?

losts to think about here. Btw, thanks for pointing out the data. You are right that trustworthy data always trumps simplified theory.

nihili

[Silver]

Both in Texas and in Arizona we used swamp coolers (evap) to cool the house. Hot dry air is sucked in through wet pads and blown into the house(very popular cooling) and except for the humid days it would cool the house 20 degrees or more by the thermometer. I even put the swamp cooler on a thermostat as the nights would get down right cold. I.E. the exhaust is into the house and yes the air was much cooler. My bong cooler exhibits the same feature in that the exhaust air is cooler as indicated with the house thermometer.

One more thing, all of the rooms had upducts (ducts with flaps that open under preasure) in order to allow the air to move through the house, out the attic and exit the structure. This of course is for the same reason that we don't duct bong exhaust back in.

[nihili]

*feels just a little bit silly for not having thought about swamp coolers*

[Colin]

Two thoughts. One, we use a swamp cooler and despite the high humidity, a bong cooler works great. Second, run pelts and the air exiting the bong cooler will be warm.

[UserName]

Great point colin
Any swamp cooler can become heat saturated and exhaust hot air. If you are exhausting hot air I would say your Bong’s too small. Dam that’s funny.

The cool thing about a bong is it goes below ambient part right? Other than that you might as well use a rad.

So in my narrow-minded world, well maybe nihili is there too, the question is how to optimize the Bong. And the better the bong the cooler the exit temp’s, cause this means cooler insides. If we are going less than ambient that means evaporation. So how to get the most evaporation. First we want the incoming air able to hold the most water it can, so that means as warm and as dry as possible. If I haven’t Screwed up here that means to me we should pump our case air into our bongs, if your case is like mine.

Maybe the better course would be to pump the cool exit air into our cases and reduce its temp. the air is humid but it is not condensing it shouldn’t mater. And then just take outside air, cause no one is suggesting we close this loop

[Silver]

Originally posted by nihili
*feels just a little bit silly for not having thought about swamp coolers*

Yeah, I don't know how many times I have unplugged the computer to work on it and then panicked when it would'nt come on. It happens so I often I really feel stupid.

I am still indebted to you for telling me to try and send the board back. Sent it today. Thank you again.:)

[Silver]

Love the bong. Present return temp is 19.6c and this is with an xp1600 at 2.22v. Loaded she is only hitting 36c. Definately pulling the heat away. Loaded water temp tonight is 20.4c max. Air temp is 25.5c. Given the humidity here my bong exit temp should be roughly 15 degrees farenheit below air temp. I do not know that I would want to introduce this air to the case though as this air has a high water content.:)

[UserName]

And the water content is artificaly high. Still it ought to cool way better than room air.

Might cause rust on stuff over time. Could spray silicone or oil lightly over the components.

It would be great if we could get a crappy system to test this on. Just to see if it works.

Bong air would be really clean. No more dust.

Could do an air to air heat exchanger to cool the room air with the bong out put air. Might be too complicated a set up.

What the rest of you all think?

Silver could you measure your exit air temp?

[Silver]

Doing it now though it is not very scientific in nature, am using a house thermometer.

[Silver]

Alright, Radioshack dual thermometer reads 25.3c and generic house thermometer reads 19c on exhaust. Accuracy on the house would most likely be +/- 2c however I believe it is + as my return water as measured in line is 18.8c. Hope this helps. Don't know outside humidity however there are no clouds and the stars are all pretty. Inside do remember that the heater is running as it is winter in Georgia.:)