Design a HSF

[Tbird man]

we as a community should get together and design a HSF for the o/c masses. we should brain storm and do research to cooperativly come up with a design and all pitch in to have it made we could do water blocks and rads too

[Jeniva]

Hey..there's an idea!..anyone have any milling equiptment??

[Captain Slug]

I do, but nominally a custom cut chunk of aluminum would cost $35 in labor. The aluminum itself is much less than that.

[Tbird man]

well it would have to b Cu for starters and i think we should use a similer design to the swiftech with pins or maybe fins like the glaciator and a fan like the glaciator(i.e. houseing built into the HS and open sides or noise reduction). the problem comes in the pins i supose we could space them out a bit more and mill them out of a solid block. money woulden't be much of a problem. this woulden't be a mass production just to see what we can do working together. than if we want we could take the plans to a local machine shop and have one made.

[DarkArctic]

But what kind of heatsink formation s the best for cooling? Would we need more surface area? What kind of fan? What are the dimensions? What processor is this for? Just a few questions for us to get started. ;)

I suggest a socket A/370 HSF. That's the most common type of chip around here.

-DarkArctic

[Tbird man]

YES yes this is exactly what i had in mind. i think we should research these things. I think it might be good to make it for an 80 or even 92mm fan. more surface area, larger fan to push more air with less noise. 80 would probibly be better as we wouldent want the dead spot too big over the die. perhaps some kind of small venturi to direct a portion of the air over the core.

[DarkArctic]

80mm is axactly what I was thinking. But for the heatsink itself I was thinking that a pin configuration doesn't work so well. I've read that fins are the best, more metal to take away the heat. What did you have in mind with that venturi thing? Maybe a quick design pic? What would the RPM and CFM on the fan be? I've heard of some beastly fans. BTW, we should have it exhausting, not blowing onto the heatsink.

-DarkArctic

[Tbird man]

like this the blue lines are air flow and the gray is a shroud the cfm i was thinking like 30-40 cfm and a fin design would be good

[DarkArctic]

Oh okay. So you just want a couple pieces of metal or something to direct a bit more air at the core. But if we have an exhaust fan (which I think will be better at cooling) then that wouldn't matter, in fact it may even hinder it a bit.

How thick are the usual heatsink bases?

-DarkArctic

[sfa ok]

I have a 3 axis mill availible for cutting out test stuff, but not production. Give me exact dimensions, Mastercam file, or Autocad file and it could be done.

Edit: You may have more luck cutting a waterblock on a mill than a heatsink....think bit size.

[JigPu]

I would go for using fins rather than pins. Fins seem to me to be easier to make, and you can make them thin enough to counter the greater surface area provided using pins. You could try for a fin that looks like screening for even greater surface area, but then you are getting back into the 'hard to make' catagory. :D

Also, I think it would be great if it were easy to attach a duct to. Getting the CPU fresh air is great, but even better when you can do it easly! :)

JigPu

[DarkArctic]

Originally posted by JigPu
Also, I think it would be great if it were easy to attach a duct to. Getting the CPU fresh air is great, but even better when you can do it easly! :)

JigPu

Threre's always duct tape. Wonderful stuff. :D

-DarkArctic

[Rezman5]

one fan over center pulling hot air up (80mm) one fan on side to push cool air across HS (92mm). What do you think???

[Tbird man]

GOOD GOOD i think we could try to do it both ways blowing on or exuasting and see which is better the duct is a good idea i am thinking a plumbing flange of the right dia. with holes drilled for mounting on a fan and use duct with a hose clamp to mount. we should also consider a cross flow design which would negate the need for a venturi.

[Crash893]

does the size of the fins affect how far the heat will travel up them?


i had idea about makeing a box out of al with copper core

then haveing copper whires shoting out fo the core attaching to the sides of the box.

its hard to explain ill attach some of my ms paint skills

[DarkArctic]

Originally posted by crash893
does the size of the fins affect how far the heat will travel up them?


i had idea about makeing a box out of al with copper core

then haveing copper whires shoting out fo the core attaching to the sides of the box.

its hard to explain ill attach some of my ms paint skills

Yes, the more metal there is the more heat it will absorb. Although I don't think that your design will be that efficient. The fan can't effectivly cool the fins. I've seen other companies do that sort of fan configuration and it doesn't prove to be to effective, only in passive cooling. The standard fins straight up is common and it works great.

As for a second fan on the side, that is an amazing idea, but would we have room? This is turning out to be a large heatsink. Maybe if we only did a standard 80mm fan for both side and top. Right now it's 80mm tall and 80mm wide, not including fans. That's a behemoth. We also need to figure out how we're going to attach this to the mobo. Socket attachment or use the bolt holes. If we use bolts then that would limit it usefulness only to Athlon sockets.

What's the dimensions for a socket?

-DarkArctic

[sfa ok]

I have pages and pages of AMD tech docs from when I was designing a waterblock (never finished...), they're all availible from AMD's site, and have everything you need dimension-wise (keepout areas, socket dimensions, etc.)

[DarkArctic]

I've searched but never found them. Could you get me a link or just post them? Thanks

-DarkArctic

[sfa ok]

Here's everything you'll need (probably):
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/23794.pdf

gaffers tape owns you

[DarkArctic]

Originally posted by sfa ok
Here's everything you'll need (probably):
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/23794.pdf

gaffers tape owns you

Thanks, I'll be sure to print it out and duct tape it to my wall.

-DarkArctic

[Diggrr]

Here's a pic I made from AMD's pdf files. It was printable in full size in .bmp format, but was too big a file. I made it a .jpg
Try printing it to see if it remains 1:1 ratio.

[DarkArctic]

Now that is useful, I'm saving that for future refernce and fun. Thanks alot!

-DarkArctic

[Diggrr]

One more thing about the above pic. Not all mobo makers stick to the keepout zone exactly. Abit has two tall caps that intrude on the whiet zone on the right side. And I don't know how I missed the .02 for the core centering numbers...hmm. Should be 1.25.

[nikhsub1]

Whatever it is, the base has to be pure SILVER... that would be a first.

[Tbird man]

well form what i have seen silver is somewhat better than copper and would look awsome but it is expensive so i think no go on that idea but we will consider it i think someone should compile the ideas and than we can debate them one at a time and seeing as i started this i guess i will. wish me luck.

[Tbird man]

we also need to set a deadline for this otherwise it won't happen.
how about a month? and we should get someone better at managment than me i am terrable at this but if i must i will do it.

[Tbird man]

heres what i have so far

80mm Copper
fins or pins
fan type? (cfm,dba,rpm)
mounting (lugs or bolts)
venturi
exhaust or bolw on
base thickness
duct
two fans
cross flow
silver base

[Crash893]

well here are two more of my ideas

1) find some sort of way to lift the the cpu from the zif connector ( like a zif extention) and find some way to cool the bottom of the cpu


2) make a silver spliter for 2 cpus

OH HELL i might as well whip out some more ms paint its hard to explain.

[Sonny]

Tbird man's venturi;

[xxgg]

this isn't a design from scratch but...

Alpha PEP66 design but all copper but with a lot of reall thin fins like SK6. Now as for the fan 60x60x25 would be too large to place it on the side... so how about low profile fan like 60x60x15, like the one used in Volcano3. and place one on each side with one blowing and one sucking ... so even with low profile fan, air can move from one side to another more effectively.


If the design would be like most of the heatsinks... there is no questions that clipping should be made like either alpha or like the one from Vantec 6030D clipp design. or even like P4 socket 423 a like.


Now if the fan were to blow down, centre part wont have much air flow... so how about making the top side the base bit curve toward the core air so that air from side and or whatever can move to that air. and out to side.

If design would be like the pins, it would be somewhat cool to have a pins made like a spring a like, but not like wires but thin flat copper. umm staircase that is twisted like a spring (obcourse without steps :) ) I think that would inrace the surface area extramly a lot. ofcource that stairway can't be too large because it would be hard for air to move down smoothly. and this would need a some casing for the fan to be placed on.

Well one thing is for sure. freakin' AMD should be using HeatPlate!!! THis would make larger heatsink like Alpha 8045 perform better when comprared to 60mm sized heatsinks.

Clipping design from swifttech is nice too.

whatever the design will be,,, using 4 holes around socket would be great too.

----
all copper would need higher rpm fan to remove heat fast enough.
I think only base should be copper...
than again... what the hell,,, do this do that build'em all.

[Tbird man]

i like the idea of the sprial pins and perhaps we should try that sometime but remember people KISS Keep It Simple Stupid a fin design would work and we want a rough finish for more turbulance i like the cross folw design so I think that should be considered and also how many fins do we want more fins=more noise and less fins=less area the we could also consider a blower rather than a standard fan for laminer(spelling is wrong) air flow.

[reidroach]

lol, i just thought of somethin, have an all copper block, no fins, run water tite tubes w/ some type of liguid in them from the core to the top of the heatsink, have a fan blowing on teh tubes to cool them and the liquid in them , there is one in production, dont remember wahts its called though, supposd to work really well!

[xxgg]

Originally posted by Tbird man
i like the idea of the sprial pins and perhaps we should try that sometime but remember people KISS Keep It Simple Stupid a fin design would work and we want a rough finish for more turbulance i like the cross folw design so I think that should be considered and also how many fins do we want more fins=more noise and less fins=less area the we could also consider a blower rather than a standard fan for laminer(spelling is wrong) air flow.


For the cross flow,,, i say some what a lot of fins would be great, since the fan is a low rpm fan, I don't think it would create that much of a noise when compare to single high RPm fan. Also a additional, make the fins like the fins from OCZ heatsinks, one smooth side and rought on other side. Just to sqeeze bit more surface area.

With this cross flow, it would be really easy to setup a simple air duct just for the CPU cooling. It would be perfect.)almost)

[AntmanMike]

My idea is to hae a Silver Base over the die, and the rest is silver. There would be a top and bottom, both the same size, and CUSIL fins inbetween. Attached to the heatsink, would be a built in thermal diode for checking the CPU temperature on the PC.

[xxgg]

Guys guys....

before someone build a heatsink with my design :) hehe


How about creating a HEAT-PLATE for damned AMD cpu ?

Just like Intel P4/Tualatin CPU?

REPLACEMENT FOR SHIM?????

[DarkArctic]

Originally posted by xxgg
Guys guys....

before someone build a heatsink with my design :) hehe


How about creating a HEAT-PLATE for damned AMD cpu ?

Just like Intel P4/Tualatin CPU?

REPLACEMENT FOR SHIM?????

That's going to have to be some exact measurments. Can someone be able to make something that small and accurate?

-DarkArctic

[xxgg]

Sure why not ?

If not make the height tiny tiny bit lower, and use something bit soft around the edge of the plate so that if not all sides of the plate is not even it can be press down. i am sure heatsink will press down on the plate to make it somewhat leveled.

just a thought.

[JigPu]

We could make the HS that has fins that either radiate out from the center (kinda like an orb, but not...), or fins that go 4 ways in order to try to keep turbulace (and noise) down. Guess I'll have to whip out the paint too. :D

JigPu

[cjlax5]

how are you going to get air to flow through the second design?

[Tbird man]

Here is another idea the gold is where the air from the fans blows down and the holes in the end are where the air comes out you would use two 60mm or maybe two 80 mm and mount with the mobo holes you may not be able to see it but the cross holes all over lap a bit so every gold hole goes through not only the regular hole but also the ajoining holes (dont know if you can make sense of that)

[JigPu]

Originally posted by cjlax5
how are you going to get air to flow through the second design?
It's a top view. The air would be blown onto the HS like normal, and then travel in 4 diffrent directions instead of just 1 like on a conventional finned sink.

JigPu

[Crash893]

here is another brain storm of mine

probably wont work but i like R&D

[xxgg]

Originally posted by Tbird man
Here is another idea the gold is where the air from the fans blows down and the holes in the end are where the air comes out you would use two 60mm or maybe two 80 mm and mount with the mobo holes you may not be able to see it but the cross holes all over lap a bit so every gold hole goes through not only the regular hole but also the ajoining holes (dont know if you can make sense of that)


There already is a such a looking heatsink.
Perform bad.

[Tbird man]

well i think i wight try that or a similer design anyway to ess what kind of results i can get

[reidroach]

did you guys know that diamond, yes diamond conducts heat better then any metal? well if we want to get pricey, lets go diamond!!!!lol:D

[Tbird man]

diamond is not going to cool a processor better than Cu beacuse no one in or out of their right mind is going to try to make a HS out of diamond.

[AntmanMike]

Also, as Nevin said, diamond particles have sharp edges. Conducting heat through the particle is easy, but conducting it from partile to particle is ery poor because the edges are spiked, so less thermal transfer.

[JigPu]

Originally posted by AntmanMike
Also, as Nevin said, diamond particles have sharp edges. Conducting heat through the particle is easy, but conducting it from partile to particle is ery poor because the edges are spiked, so less thermal transfer.
Yes, but if you could make thousands of little spikes by roughing up the sides, then you could have a chance. But then again, just what are you going to use to rough up diamond?!?

How good do properly made orbs do? I don't mean those things that couldn't make an ice cube cold if it tried, but what they were based on. I remeber reading on here an article about the real orbs being descent coolers, and the Blue Orb and such took the basic design and killed it.

JigPu

[Tbird man]

I was wondering where you saw a HS like that?

[Diggrr]

The origional orb: Arctic Cooler by Agilent.
I just went to the companies web site, they say that they are leaving the hsf manufacturing arena, but will license their brand of hsf. Bummer.
Nice performing unit, panaflo fan built in much like orbs. Try hardOCP for a review/pic.

Found it on google.

[Tbird man]

sorry for the confusion i ment xxgg

[xxgg]

Originally posted by Tbird man
sorry for the confusion i ment xxgg


review from HardOCP.

[DarkArctic]

Bump. Any other funky ideas? I'm working on mine. In summary I think that we all decided that:

Majority of the heatsink is copper, maybe silver base
2 80mm fans, 1 as exhaust, 1 as blow?
Slugs or bolt's, probably bolts but that excludes Pentium III users
Fins
Dimensions have not been decided either

That's all for now. Anything I should add or forgot?

-DarkArctic

[Tbird man]

We also would want to be able to add a duct and if we do a crossflow we could even add two makeing the HSF completely independant of case temps (we would still need fans to move the rest of the air) I think we decided on fins which makes it easier. i think thicker fins are better and also easier so we should stick with that. we want reasonable noise levels so no delta screamers and defenitaly no howlers. Anyone have CAD skills that they could use to draw prototypes (paint just isn't gonna cut it for long) as for fan type and peticulars lets get the basic design first.

[Tbird man]

xxgg i found what you were talking about and i see some fundamental differences. theirs uses fans with no sides allowing the air to go out the sides and it looks like their is no path through which the air can flow over the fins. mine allows air to go in over all the surface area.

[Tbird man]

How about this design. (your looking at the side) dimentions are 85mm tall by 80mm wide by 60mm deep

[Tbird man]

*bump*

[Darrenct]

I have a cool Idea for an 80 mm Cooling fan. If this will be for the "masses" It will have to be quiet. I know I took my 80.2 CFM Delta fan off after a couple days of thinking I lived on a runway.I think we can acheive very high airflow with low RPM using a turbine method.

You've all seen the PCI slot cooling fans that pump 42 cfm at 2400 RPM. Well lets take two Similar Turbins(Powered by one motor) and strap them to the heatsink.

Using advanced Computer Graphics and a box of Crayons I have built an image of what this device would look like:
http://www.geocities.com/darrenct83/turbinefan.jpg

[JigPu]

Originally posted by Darrenct
Using advanced Computer Graphics and a box of Crayons I have built an image of what this device would look like:
http://www.geocities.com/darrenct83/turbinefan.jpg
That is a really pretty 'X' for just a box of crayons and computer graphics! :rolleyes: Something must be wrong with your link...

I have some minor CAD skills.... I took 6 weeks of CAD, and was the top student, but unfortunatly, I only know AutoCAD LT, and I have absolutly no CAD programs :( . Anybody else got CAD experience??

JigPu

[Darrenct]

OK, I reattached my masterpiece, but if it doesn't work just go to:

http://www.geocities.com/darrenct83/turbinefan.jpg

Tell me what you think of the idea

[Tbird man]

good concept but one stipulation is this needs to be simple so any joe with a little $$ and a local machine shop can have one made.

[Crash893]

how about makeing one that has the bottom milled to the specs of the die of the heat sink

so its like a shim and a heatsink all in one.

whats the smallest pump you can buy?

[DarkArctic]

I'm making a KSF over on this end, it's nice and simple for the average machine shop I think. I'll post a pic of it once I'm done designing.

-DarkArctic

[xxgg]

Originally posted by Tbird man
How about this design. (your looking at the side) dimentions are 85mm tall by 80mm wide by 60mm deep

Hmmm I don't thing there is enough surface area and it would be way too heavy and the clipping system would need to be easy and strong.

[xxgg]

Originally posted by Tbird man
How about this design. (your looking at the side) dimentions are 85mm tall by 80mm wide by 60mm deep

Hey Tbird... you just gave me a great idea, (well who knows if it is good or not) and I think it will be some what easy to build too by anyone with torch?

As you can see from the image,, copper base, with whatever size copper pipes all stacked and bonded together (whatever pipe size can be used) finally size is 60mx80mx60m. size should make it look like volcano5/6 alike.
Just like my previous design,i was thinking of being used with 2 low profile 60x60x15 60mm fans, one blow from one side and other suck from other size. we can alway build with alloy or 80mm or 70mm sized heatsink too.

well using any fan is optional ;)

Now, someone with resource build this for us and show us the result ;)


oops i forgot to draw copper base. but it is there ;)

[Tbird man]

I think this has potential but not if it gets pushed down but whatever. I am going to go to a local machine shop and see how much it will cost to get some of my ideas made up for testing.

[DarkArctic]

Okay, here is Revision 1 of the "ArcticStorm".
Enjoy, let me know what you think.

-DarkArctic

[cjlax5]

looks good, but i would be a afraid the fan on top would suck the air blown in from the bottom of the side fans away from the bottom of the heatsink where all the heat is coming from

[DarkArctic]

Here's a R1.1. We could just take the top fan off and leave it to the duct fan attached to the case to do the exhaust work.
Actually I was somewhat worried that air would be caught in that space in the bottom and be heated up more than the rest.

-DarkArctic

[bigggwilly]

What about something like an enclosed rectangle with fins in the middle of it... kinda like this... I think it would be pretty affective, but I really have no idea, i'm not an engineer (YET)
http://www3.sympatico.ca/lpomeroy/FanStuff.JPG
Tell me what you think...

[cjlax5]

ya, i think that new rev. would do a pretty good job, thats what i was thinking about doing too

[DarkArctic]

Originally posted by cjlax5
ya, i think that new rev. would do a pretty good job, thats what i was thinking about doing too

Good, then we can reduce the width from 80mm to maybe the size of the socket or maybe a bit larger.

-DarkArctic

[Darrenct]

Hey, I like the Idea of fans blowing air in on the sides, but I don't think it is very practical... the majority of motherboads out there barely have enough room for an 80mm Heatsink, let alone fans sticking out two sides of it. I know if I did it on my setup I would either have a fan through my RAM and a couple capacitors, or through my Chipset, and power supply.

[M00CH]

Tons of ides hope they get implemented into the design..

my idea to add to the masses is as follows

see image attached.. hope it works..

the idea is to make a 1-2 mm grove all the way around the HS. On to this you can attach a piece of plexie glass or similar..

thus you cut down on the size of the HS and the cost

[DarkArctic]

So have we settled on one design yet? This thread seems to be losing interest. Take my design! This is not a subliminal message. I like that clamp idea M00ch. That way both intel and amd people can be happy.

-DarkArctic

[JigPu]

My problem with your HS DarkArctic is the size of it. I don't have a new computer so I don't know how much space is between it and any other components that could get in the way. Could we somehow shrink it or something??

I'll make a pic of something I've been thinking about all day.

JigPu

[DarkArctic]

Originally posted by JigPu
My problem with your HS DarkArctic is the size of it. I don't have a new computer so I don't know how much space is between it and any other components that could get in the way. Could we somehow shrink it or something??

I'll make a pic of something I've been thinking about all day.

JigPu

I know what you mean. I've been thinking of that alot. I could make the width smaller now that there's not a fan on top of it. We could also make just the base out of copper and everything else out of aluminum so that it's easier to mill and it's lighter. Or we could get some smaller fans to stick on it.

-DarkArctic

[JigPu]

Guess I won't post it... Never could make it work out in my mind let alone get it onto paint.... Guess we'll have to stick with yours :D

JigPu

[DarkArctic]

Awwww, what a shame. J/k:D
BTW, who has the resources to build this?

-DarkArctic

[Tycho]

I would like to see a heatsink similar to the curren glaciator ][
except that it would accept 80mm fans and use the mounting
holes on the motherboard similar to the PAL8045. It would be a heavy ******* but I wouldn't have to rip apart the computer
to unclog the heatsink as much as a thin fin heatsink. I had to
take out my sk6 because it was getting plugged up every couple
of weeks, guess i could solve that with some filters however.

[Tbird man]

keep the thread alive! heres an idea that is perhaps a bit extreem its a 120mm hs with fins radiating out from the contact.

[Tbird man]

posted too soon:

[DarkArctic]

You'd have to put that fan on the top. Otherwise the middle fins won't be cooled as good.

-DarkArctic

[xxgg]

OK that is it...

CoolerMaster CB5-6G52 is superb heatsink!

Now build this into 80mm size! and you WIN!

I think i wanna buy this heatsink hmm...

[DarkArctic]

Right now I'm working on Revision 1.2 of the ArcticStorm cooler. This revision is probably only going to include plans for fastening. I have a sneaky way to allow both socket tabs and mobo bolts to be used. I'll be using all of the tabs on the socket on order for it to be fastened securly.

-DarkArctic

[sfa ok]

Originally posted by Tbird man
keep the thread alive! heres an idea that is perhaps a bit extreem its a 120mm hs with fins radiating out from the contact.

That would probably more complicated and more expensive than just buying this (http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/cnps3100GP.htm):

http://www.zalman.co.kr/images/septemberimg/3100gp1b.gif

[DarkArctic]

Here is Revision 1.2.

[UserName]

That is prolly the best HS i ever seen. a HOOT on that baby and hello!

[DarkArctic]

Thanks alot. That is much appreciated. I'm think that maybe the fins should be closer though, perhaps 3 or 4 mm.

-DarkArctic

[xxgg]

Originally posted by DarkArctic
Here is Revision 1.2.

That is some good stuff you got there...
but there are some problems...

First, motherboard compatibility will be LOW.

Clipping isn't looking so secure. or maybe I am just not understanding exactly how it is being used on there.

[xxgg]

Here is my idea from nowhere...
since your design and and just about all the design that we seen here...

Lets just design something that is a monster.
I dont know, maybe this could be a overkill... but who cares...
this is overclockers.com :p

First of all... let's start with this idea... (check the site for Type W)
http://www.kanie.jp/eproductsbodysocket.htm

As you can see it is a heatsink using dual 60mm fan. And the base is a 69x60.

Now from this design... let's make the base 80x80 mm. and just like this Type-W heatsink... upper part of the heatsink gets larger. In my case,, it will become 92x92mm. Now this is a freaking gigantic size heatsink. If this is all copper,,, it would probly break something off... therefore,,, only base will have nice and thick Copper w/ really thin alloy thins a lot of them.

Now, we cannot just place 92mm fan on top of this heatsink... it will need that thingy that is place between sink and fan, just like Type W/ALpha.

Now for the clipping... obcourse it will use 4 mount hole. base of heatsink will have a 4 holes, where user would need to place a screen and attack to board..

or here is a one modification to my idea. like Type W, there will be curv part when heatsink goes from 80 to 92. But... leaving a gap until the curv part begine and we block the upper gaps, and have series of holes on base between fins... and the fan would be place to suck the air off the heatsink. Due to base being 80mm and fan being 92mm... it would be like a vacuum sucking air. since base is smaller it will have bit more greater force of sucking air. and I hope those series of holes on base would help too .(for both fan sucking & blowing)

hehe,, now this is my crazy **** idea from nowhere :)
Huge ugly ass heatsink , eh ?

[DarkArctic]

Originally posted by xxgg


That is some good stuff you got there...
but there are some problems...

First, motherboard compatibility will be LOW.

Clipping isn't looking so secure. or maybe I am just not understanding exactly how it is being used on there.

Thanks for the compliment.:)
I forgot to show in the top diagram how the clip is going to work. Basically it will reach through the base and grip onto all the tabs at once. There may be another revision in order to make the clip more secure, I still have a few ideas stuck in my head. :)

-DarkArctic

[Tbird man]

this has GOT to be the best clip design

[DarkArctic]

That's exactly what I was thinking of! I didn't know they manufactured that though. Is it high enough for my HSF? 80mm or more. Where did you find that?

-DarkArctic

[Tbird man]

its the clip for the globalwin TAK HSF which i am afraid is quite similer to your design. its on the front page

[DarkArctic]

Whoa, that is almost the same. They must have someone smart working at GlobalWin LOL. Except mines better :D, it has a copper base and allows the mobo bolts to be used. I also have the 80mm fans. That's crazy though, they're almost exactly alike.

-DarkArctic

[Tbird man]

yeah very similer. i still like my idea which is much like yours except the fans are on a 45 deg angle and the air exausts out the bottom through the holes. it uses the same clip design.

[xxgg]

I dont know,, i just dont wanna do it myself...

someone,, try this...

Remove fan from your heatsink, make a small cover for top of your heatsink and attack a vaccum and see what kind of performance it will give :D hehe...

this is purely for fun.

[DarkArctic]

Originally posted by xxgg
I dont know,, i just dont wanna do it myself...

someone,, try this...

Remove fan from your heatsink, make a small cover for top of your heatsink and attack a vaccum and see what kind of performance it will give :D hehe...

this is purely for fun.

I'd do that if I didn't have waterblocks. Anyone else want to try this experimentation out?

-DarkArctic

[DarkArctic]

That heatsink is pretty cool Tbird. It looks like your going to use 60mm fans there because that's about how big a socket is.

-DarkArctic

[Tbird man]

well thats just a rough sketch it would be made larger for 80mm

[Tbird man]

heres my latest rev. 3.3.1 this i have dubbed the Big Block cooler

[Tbird man]

oops did it again

here it is:

[cjlax5]

that is huge

[DarkArctic]

Originally posted by Tbird man
oops did it again

here it is:

Except now the clip can't attach to the socket. You're going to have to either resort totally to mobo bolts or have the clip go through the base like I did to mine.

-DarkArctic

[SeigeAkicksass]

my idea-
attach w/ bolts-

[SeigeAkicksass]

my idea-
attach w/ bolts-

and ont eh first page someone suggested a closed water sytem with reall small pipes tand water evaporates and then you cool it with a fan thats is the Zen it uses that

with that 2 fan v desigen - i have seen one that was very similar ot it but no quite the same just so ouknow:eh?:

[Tbird man]

this shows the clip

[rossd]

You don't need to use much silver to get most of the benefit. Just mill a pit in the copper directly above the core and fill it in with molten silver, then sand it flush. Shouldn't add much to the cost.

Of course, silver will only get you a marginal improvement anyway.

[xxgg]

ok
now
this thread is dead now :()

[JFettig]

i have 2 GOOD ideas well 1 GOOd idea and another... ill post them as soon as i draw them out..

[JFettig]

basicly get copper foil and punch holes in it like that, but probably smaller and more
then coil it around on a copper plate!

[JFettig]

and another, that i think a round copper base, with all kinds of copper wire strait kinda like the swiftech model but smaller and copper wire, slodiered at the base basicly as 1 then spread out in a cone like that with holes in the bottom of the cone and a 80mm fan and some kind of clamps? it looks kinda good?

[Patchmaster]

I've read most of this thread and I think it's going nowhere because there are no bounds on the problem. Design a heatsink... for what CPU? Which motherboard? (Is there room for one or more side-mounted fans? Are there other components in the area that will disrupt airflow?) What exactly is the goal? One would assume maximum heat dissipation, but at what cost? What kind of tools will one need to construct this thing? Are there any limits on noise? Will external ducting be assumed? The questions could go on and on.

I would suggest picking a single CPU family and a very common motherboard and design specifically for that situation. Once there's a design that works well for that combination, modify as necessary for other situations.

[Über~PhLuBB]

Originally posted by crash893
well here are two more of my ideas

1) find some sort of way to lift the the cpu from the zif connector ( like a zif extention) and find some way to cool the bottom of the cpu


2) make a silver spliter for 2 cpus

OH HELL i might as well whip out some more ms paint its hard to explain.

I like this idea. So much, in fact, that I decided to help you realize it through 3D. That's 4, count 'em, FOUR 40mm fans blowing down that V-Twin looking monstrosity. That makes the base 80mm square, which means 4-screw mounting from undernieth. The fins are arranged at a 20 degree angle. I went a little sparse on the fins, only 22. I see no reason why we can't half the thickness, and go for 66 fins. =)

That's a full footprint copper heat spreader. The holes in the side are not heatpipes, they only go in 10mm.

Crash, let's elaborate on this.

[Tbird man]

i think that design would be more praticle with no V and one 80mm fan. my design allows for the same foot print but two 80mm fans thus allowing for more air flow with less space/weight than a crossflow design

[Tbird man]

Originally posted by Patchmaster
I've read most of this thread and I think it's going nowhere because there are no bounds on the problem. Design a heatsink... for what CPU? Which motherboard? (Is there room for one or more side-mounted fans? Are there other components in the area that will disrupt airflow?) What exactly is the goal? One would assume maximum heat dissipation, but at what cost? What kind of tools will one need to construct this thing? Are there any limits on noise? Will external ducting be assumed? The questions could go on and on.

I would suggest picking a single CPU family and a very common motherboard and design specifically for that situation. Once there's a design that works well for that combination, modify as necessary for other situations.

okey how about some prameters:

1. socket A and if possible 370 you can buy an athlon(mobo hole) to 478 conversion plate.
2. use amd spec clear area.
3. cost/doability efficient (i.e. no heatpipes,forged,or exotic metals.)
4. as for tools standard machine shop equipment like mills, lathes, drill presses, ect.

[MadMan007]

Uber~phlubb you got PM

I asked Uber where I could get a program that could make a 3D drawing like he made that is not some crazy-expensive CAD program. Doesanyone else know of a place to get a freeware/shareware program to make 3D or even nice 2D images?

[Patchmaster]

4. as for tools standard machine shop equipment like mills, lathes, drill presses, ect. Somewhere I got the impression this was supposed to be a build-it-yourself project. I can see the drill press because even if you don't have one you can get one for about $100. The mills and lathes put it clearly out of the reach of DIY, at least it does for me.

[Tbird man]

well i just don't think an air cooled HS can be properly done as DIY i suppose it could but i think you would see better performance if you "did it right". i think this should evolve into 2 catigories.
1 machine shop
2 DIY drill press and simple/common power tools
waddaya think?

[cjlax5]

okay, guys, we got all these great designs, now someone has to build and test them, otherwise how r we gonna know whats gonna work?

[1Time]

I'd like to see an all copper hs shaped and mounted like the Alpha PAL8045 but with thin close vertical fins with a fan on the side next to the AGP slot pushing air through the fins towards the top of the case and ps exhaust fans.

[Tbird man]

i'm gonna go around town lookin for a machine shop to do this. i think ill try my idea first

[xxgg]

Originally posted by 1Time
I'd like to see an all copper hs shaped and mounted like the Alpha PAL8045 but with thin close vertical fins with a fan on the side next to the AGP slot pushing air through the fins towards the top of the case and ps exhaust fans.

Yes, lets take the hot air from back of video card and blow to heatsink..

I'll i think is that just build a reasonable sized heatsink with 2 low profile fan ,,, once blowing and one sucking and air duct those.

[res0r9lm]

Originally posted by sonny
NO. That would be your second choice. CuSil is the material of choice. cusil is worst than copper quoted properties
were wrong

http://www.overclockers.com/articles305/

[Tbird man]

heres an idea use a peice of copper and some VERY hevy gauge stranded copper wire (or maybe alot of smaller gague) solder the wire to the center of the plate and fray the rest to about 80mm dia and build a structure to a fan blowing on it. this was inspired by a pervious idea but this one has more wires/surfacearea

[Tbird man]

here

[Tbird man]

anyone else got any ideas lets hear them

[Monkit]

The large black vertical lines represent the HEat pipe, same technology as seen in the coolermaster hhc-001

The tin lines ate the thin copper fins. THe fan will be mounted vertically blowing accross the fins.

Im no engineer but this seems a fairly effective design.

There will be 4 heat pipes mounted parallell to each other, this will provide greater heat transferr alonw with adding stability to the HS

[Dagon]

Not to be a jerk guys...but what exactly are you trying to really accomplish here?

Do you think your going to really come up with an air cooled HS design that's going to be home-made(LAUGH), cheap, and more effective than say a swiftech, or alpha?

Other than purely academic chit-chat, the whole idea is somewhat far-fetched.

We're pretty much already banging on the doors of simple tech air cooling C/W.

Why don't you try expanding the cooling frontier instead with some Heat pipe designs?

[Monkit]

YOu obviously didnt read my post Directly above yourse.

ALso why do you think this will never get made? SOme people 'like me for instance' are quite skillled in all the machine aspects of constructing materials such as this.

I in fact have all the tools required for production of a Heatsink of my desigh in my shed at home.

Including milling equiptment. DOnt be so pesamistic, And no I dont think that the first Heat sink we design will compare with a good alpha but with trial and error we can accomplish this. This forum community consists of manny skilled engineers, machinests and general overclockers who have extended knowledge in the area of HS design.

YOur opinion is flawed.

ANd I know I cant spell.

[heru]

Tbird man: this may enhance your design.

as far as i read, there's no theorical calculation (except the dimension) in this topic, well:
i have a theory that may support any of your HS&F, but it MUST has FINS.
this theory based on modified motorcycle's air-cooled engine.
fyi: there are 2 types of engine cooling device: air-cooled/fins or water-cooled/radiator.

theory 1: the larger the fin surface, the more heat released to the air.

theory 2: to maximize the surface, make holes in the fin.

theory 3: the hole dimension MUST < cylindric dimension.

(i know you can't understand my poor english, i'll try to make an example)

example: D=diametre, T=Thickness

i'll presume:
regular HSF normally has 15-25 fins. well, let's make it 20 fins.
fin dimension, length:80 mm height:40 mm thick:1.5 mm.

let's take 1 fin to calculate: (2x80x40)+(2x40x1.5)+(1x80x1.5)=6640 mm2.
why the last one is 1x80x1.5? because the bottom side is not touched by air.
total fins dimension: 6640x20=132800 mm2.

i'll make 20 holes in a fin, let say the diameter is 2 mm. so, the surface i took away is PIx(D/2)x(D/2)=3.14x1x1=3.14 mm2, since the fin is 3D, it has 2 side. so, 3.14x2=6.28 mm2.
the side effect of taking the circle dimension is also made another dimension --> it is the dimension of thickness! (cylindric): PIxDxT=3.14x2x1.5=9.42 mm2.

so, i got 9.42-6.28=3.14 mm2 more dimension.

based on theory #3, why "the hole dimension MUST < cylindric dimension" because it will equals negative value if it's not. notice: 9.42-6.28=+3.14 mm2 <- positive value. total dimension i have in a fin is 20(holes)x3.14=62.8 mm. i have 20 fins, so, 62.8x20=1256 mm2.

total dimension of the fins is 132800+1256=134056 mm2.

this is just an example, to create the optimum solution, you guys should calculate the maximum value of the final dimension (including the number of holes).

summary:
1. i got more dimension (ofcourse!)
2. it also maximize air flow!
3. i think designing a HS&F requires a lot of calculations (material, airflow, environment, surface (this is what i can donate), angle, temperature, etc)
3. this is my first post, sorry for any mistakes and i hope i can be accepted in this community.
4. sorry (again) for my english, i'm learning! ^_^

[MadMan007]

Well, I have a simple idea that could probably be done by someone with machine equipment, or at least at a local machine shop.

This was my thought process: don't try to re-invent the wheel but improve on what is currently available. So I thought "what is the best HS that is simple enough for someone to make?" It had to be 1 material only (no Cu/Al hybrids.) Well, the answer is obvious: the Millenium Glaciator.

How does it get such good performance, especially for being 60mm only? It is milled from one copper piece, so no joints to hinder heat transfer, and this is also do-able at a machine shop. It has good thermal mass, meaning that while it is not a "thin-fin" design, it has lots of mass to absorb heat, with a balanced amount of surface area to expel it.

My design for: socket A, using motherboard mounting holes b/c of its massive weight. I will describe it verbally then try to get some pics up.

The base would cover the entire AMD "no-mount zone" with cut-outs if necessary for the more popular boards that don't conform. Mounting method would be the same as the Alpha8045 or the SwiftyMCX462.

Rising from the base would be fins of equal spacing and size to the Glaciator. The fins would run across the socket (same direction as socket mounting tabs.) The base area between the fins would be cut in toward the center but not farther than the mounting holes. The center would be as a solid column rising up directly above the die to the bottom of the fan, since this area has less airflow anyway might as well have more mass.

After rising up to the AMD recommended minimum clearance height (adjusted for popular mobo's), the fins would go square out to form a 92mm square. Yes, it will have a 90 or 92 mm fan, big CFM, low noise. :) The fins parallel to the socket lugs would be easy to do this with; to make the top 92x92mm, perpendicular fins would have to be milled (or soldered on if necessary) to the side-most fins on the sides where the mounting screws are. The fan would mount to brackets attached to the outermost fins.

It would weigh a ton I am sure, but oh well. This is just a "more is better" heatsink, but I believe it would be effective. I know it is hard to describe verbally, but I think I made sense (mostly ;) )What do you think?

[cjlax5]

i like the idea of putting holes through the fins, we could even sort of test the idea if someone has an sk6 or glaciator they want to sacrafice

[M00CH]

A lot of thing are getting lost in these " 5 " pages of decussion..

why not set some rules up for any following posts..

i.e
H/S size has to be no bigger than (example 80mmX80mm ?)
material " " " ( copper, alinum, jeeze a pepsi can i dont know)
mounting has to be for Intel and AMD (have to please everyone)

stuff like that.. remember the more complex dosent always meen better..

K.I.S.S keep it simple stupid

hheeh lets see if this post gets flamed

[Tbird man]

I agree with you i believe it should be made of Cu beacuse Al just won't cut it for hi performance. also we should design it to use lugs or bolts or perhaps a lug to bolt adapter. i like the hole idea that is paryt of the reason i used than in my latest Bi-fan design.

[xxgg]

Our own heatsink design :) is great but...

Will it be all out, pure performance heatsink ? Well than,,, heck with all the fans, lets have Alpha 8045 and place a full sized vaccum sucking air off it :D (hehe i know someone might try vaccum now ;) ) Anyways,, this isn't so practicle...

Since my IQ is too low to design a well performing heatsink...
I am sure many of you 'pro' can design something great but...

low noise/quiet cooling solution is best. You can always add super high RPM fan to make performance better. But I would surely like to see some high performing heatsink with quiet fan(s)

[xxgg]

Whatever heatsink we design wont perform that great inside of a close case.
I think it would be better off design a great heatsink that we can do air duct'able? design.

Just like one of my first design I showed off in this thread...

Alpha PEP66 look a like... but with way more fins (fins with hole would be a bonus?) and two low profile fan. Like those 60x60x15 blue fans, i forgot the name,,, anyways it seems to produce good enough cfm. So, one fan blows from side,,, one fan suck from one side to really get the air moving well.

And say you have a case like Antec, where there is already 2x80mm hole at back of case. It would be great. use one for out and one for in. 7volt mod to 80mm fan would do but i think only one fan for intake @ 7volt would do well.

I definitely think that if using air duct design, fan sucking air is best way. Just like Alpha design. I would wanna have hot air from heatsink blown to other parts of hardwares.

Just wanted to say something... why wont damned AMD make heatplate !!! something like one from K6 series CPU :)
Let's build out own heatplate too.. yes measuring high of the core could be difficult but... i am it is do'able :) hehe
or make it really really bit lower and place a super thin robber to fill that gap. so when pressed down by the clipping force, it would make heatplate contact well? no? bad idea? sorry :p

Have a great day to you all !

[res0r9lm]

a good case would cool as good if not better with sides on

[JigPu]

Originally posted by heru
theory 1: the larger the fin surface, the more heat released to the air.

theory 2: to maximize the surface, make holes in the fin.

theory 3: the hole dimension MUST < cylindric dimension.

Here's another theory to throw out there...

To maximize surface area, make the fins rough instead of perfectly flat.

As long as we are attaching the fins to a base (not extruding the fins out of the base), you should be able to take some rough sand paper to it to get it nice and bumpy.

Also, is there any way of forcing the heat from the center of the heat sink (where the die is) out to the edges of the heat sink? I was wondering because there is very little air coming from the center of the fan, and most of it is around the outside. So, if we could force the heat out to the edges somehow, it would be much more efficient at getting rid of the heat because the area where the most air flow is would have the most heat from the CPU.
Of course, another solution would be to find a diffrent way to mount the fan so that it blows air over the die directly rather than on the edges of the sink.

JigPu

[res0r9lm]

how about silver heatspreader soldered to heatsink

[res0r9lm]

Originally posted by JigPu

Here's another theory to throw out there...

To maximize surface area, make the fins rough instead of perfectly flat.

As long as we are attaching the fins to a base (not extruding the fins out of the base), you should be able to take some rough sand paper to it to get it nice and bumpy.

Also, is there any way of forcing the heat from the center of the heat sink (where the die is) out to the edges of the heat sink? I was wondering because there is very little air coming from the center of the fan, and most of it is around the outside. So, if we could force the heat out to the edges somehow, it would be much more efficient at getting rid of the heat because the area where the most air flow is would have the most heat from the CPU.
Of course, another solution would be to find a diffrent way to mount the fan so that it blows air over the die directly rather than on the edges of the sink.

JigPu
If you were trying to get air to cener of heatsink. take another fan
cut the center out so it can be used as a spacer then caulk the two together.

[heru]

Originally posted by JigPu

Here's another theory to throw out there...

To maximize surface area, make the fins rough instead of perfectly flat.

JigPu

is "rough" equal bumping? not flat?

if the surface of the fins are rough, won't it will minimize the air flow? maybe they can be not a flat surfaces (waving perhaps?) what do you think? the wave direction should be calculated also.

Heru

Imagination is more important than knowledge - Albert Einstein

[heru]

supporting image

[heru]

or this? adding extra fins...

[heru]

btw, did you see todays article "AMD Prices Softening Not only undercutting Intel's official pricing, but their own, too." ? the page title is "Homemade Tivo?" (yesterday article). i think the webmaster used cut&paste job huh? :D

[Iamghey]

I have a design... here's a parts list:
Copper pot/kettle
That's it

Step by step guide to building this:
1)Take your m/b out of your case
2)Place if on the box that it came it
3)Make sure the m/b is flat
4)Fill the pot/kettle with water
5)Place it on the cpu
6)Do anything but tip it over
7)If you wanna add a fan, you can, there's a giant blowhole already made for the job

oh yeah, don't forget the arctic silver 2, or should I say, 3?

[Tbird man]

heres my first heatpipe idea one central pipe with thin fins attached to it.

[Crash893]

how far will a heat pipe go?

i mean how far will it carry heat

beause if you could run it out side your case that would be ideal wouldnt it so you could get that theat away from the inside of the case.

i was also thinking the same thing with the psu why have it in the case why not just have a power brick with a fan outside the unit to cut down on ambiant heat?

[SirDennis]

Bump

[Tbird man]

bump any more ideas out there?

[xxgg]

moo~

[Crash893]

anyone given any thought to heat pipes?

[Trieber]

Ok, I read the first page or so, how about this idea:

Have a cube shaped heat sink, have holes drilled through it, then put an input fan on one side that has a freshair duct feeding it, and then an output fan with a duct to get the air off, then to top it off, a fan on top, preferably low CFM and low RPM to cool the die area directly, somewhat like this websites HSF called "The Core"

http://www.overclockershideout.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=o&Product_Code=CHS&Category_Code=HS

Tell me what you think of my idea above, and about that HSF.

[heru]

Interesting!

but how about the perfomance? any1 have tried?

[Crash893]

Originally posted by Trieber
Ok, I read the first page or so, how about this idea:

Have a cube shaped heat sink, have holes drilled through it, then put an input fan on one side that has a freshair duct feeding it, and then an output fan with a duct to get the air off, then to top it off, a fan on top, preferably low CFM and low RPM to cool the die area directly, somewhat like this websites HSF called "The Core"

http://www.overclockershideout.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=o&Product_Code=CHS&Category_Code=HS

Tell me what you think of my idea above, and about that HSF.

that thing is a half lbs of poop to put it nicely

i managed to aquire one from a freind for like 10 bucks it cooled worse than a delta than some generic hsf i got from walmart for 14 bucks

its good idea

but its
loud
heavy
made out of the wrong stuff (if you made it out of copper im sure it would be better)
hard to attach


the only thing its good for now is to tie some rope to it and use it as a mace or a shotput

[xxgg]

*dead?thread*?

[Tbird man]

I am currently looking into the possibilty of getting one of my designs made.

[ziah]

most hsu's are extruded not milled. the profile is then cut to width and then all the little details are milled in. thats why a volcano9 or whatever isnt $70 a piece.

~z

[Goo Kenson]

I'm not sure if this has been suggested already in the 5 pages I havn't yet read, but who cares.

It should defenitely mount with motherboard holes and standoffs because a sink as heavy as this is made out to be would be too heavy for lugs IMO.

[Alien42]

I know no-one's posted to this thread in a while, but I read all the way through it & noticed that graphite hadn't been mentioned. It is supposed to have better thermal conductivity than copper. I have no idea of its cost, but I think I've found a place [in the UK] that might sell it, so I'm gonna phone them later today to find out.

[Daegon]

this would only work in a (slightly) modded case.. it would require the area where the cpu is located above the motherboard tray to be cut out......
basically what i'm saying is you cut out some of the mobo tray and the hsf mounts through the mounting holes(otherwise it would be to unstable)
now this would be two parts. the back part would be an anodised aluminum heatink that is optional, so if your mobo doesn't allow you to mount back there for some reason, you dont have to. this would mount through the holes in the board kinda like this:

[Daegon]

and then those pins would follow up through the holes and mate with tabs on the bottom of the heatink, which looks like this:

[Daegon]

the heatsink would be aluminum with a copper core..kinda working off the dr.thermaldesign.. but with fans on the sides... I'd suppose the heastink istelf would be pretty small to acommidate the fans, but the fans would blow in and would be directed up through the top.. because the bottom would be sealed. the four fans around the edges would be pretty slim... maybe 50 or 60mm by 10-15? (oh, and pardon my bad paint shop pro skills)

[Blueacid]

Graphite? Doesn't that disintegrate if you put to much force on it (think of pushing down on a pencil)?

Little lumps of graphite all over the underside of your Graphics Card would *not* be pleasant!

[Alien42]

That's 1 form/use of it, they also make tennis rackets, & IIRC, fishing rods out of it, so perhaps the kind in pencils is not neccessarily the kind you'd get if you bought a solid cube of it? :shrug: BTW, I forgot to phone that company about pricing, I'll have to ring them Monday now, I'll ask them about it's strength & different forms of it then.

[crotale]

What about doing something like this Vantec:
http://www.overclockers.com/articles644/
But doing it all copper and maybe some king ot heatpipe in the middle...

I think it's good to have a design that let the air blow trough the heatsink... Less resistance, and higher CFM.
Also, having a solid "tube" in the middle spreading the heat higher up in the heatsink. There isn't any airflow in the middle of the heatsink anyways...
One more thing would be to make it about 80x80 in the bottom (or the max mobo-spec.) and then expanding to 92x92 after a height when the space is clear from caps and other stuff...

My 2 cents...