is it me or is blizzard the last saving grace in pc games?

[SF101]

after AOC & COD4(some might argue that) i find myself thinking when was the last time a game delivered more than i expected. Lost planet almost did it but there MP sucked hard nwn2 nearly almost but something just wasnt quite as good as the first imho. afew games pop into my head.

wow, HL2 ..NWN , unreal Tournament,HL, Starcraft. diablo 1&2
C&C 1&Redaleart.

i keep hoping valve comes out with something but with games like D3 SC2 & a wow expansion around the corner i mean seriously they are holding so many of the cards now a days.

UBI-suck can go to hell they have some of the worst released games ever and ive actually bought and competed in quite afew of them . there consol games are much better than there pc games imho and that seems to be there major focus point now a days.

its almost as if these companys need to get together or something.

things that pc gamers imho need.

DX10 games i mean its about damn time right

FPS for both player bases .. Hardcore stratagy people and fast action people
we used to have that with UT/Quake and CS/R6-RS now we have mixes of crap and no one knows what to even play anymore. imho the FPS community is in shambles and like i said before ive been doing it along time and actually hung up my FPS gloves after the COD4 release which just wasnt good enough for me sry its 2008 and well i had games like that back in 1997 maybe not as pretty just just as advanced.

RPG's lets face it NWN2 was a semi let down it was ok and all but we need a year 2000 killer to end off this decade i sure hope that Diablo 3 can do this

Racing games The NFS frachise is old people are sick of it. the last 4 Racing games i bought sucked someone needs to make a good one i mean comon.

Stratagy games.. can anything srsly beat Starcraft or Redaleart for pure fun?
half the time with these new stratagy games me and my coworkers end up getting sick of it and just nuking the crap out of eachother to finish the game so we can go home early.(ya us IT guys still lan sometimes lol)
hopefully SC2 can relieve us on this one.

how about flying games .. wow where did those go other than pilot training games i mean seriously right. i heard janes making a new jet game but i have never met anyone that loved the jet games . ive met alot of people that still bring up old fighter pilot games though.

it seems the only games that can deliver each year are the sports games now a days heh sad.

i find myself doing crazy things like playing rockband(ps3) and stuff haha.. i mean its fun and fun is why we all started gaming tobegin with.

i will say this as my closing point.
Graphic's cards and hotrod pcs are plenty now these companys have no real excuses as to why they cant make good games. it seems they can make a graphics engine before they can actually make a good game or story line / base.
Id love to see 1 last big bang release before 2010 this decade sucked for gaming imho and people are still talking about ancient games from 97-99 and the gaming company's should be ashamed that in the last 10 years they havent been able to surpass games made a century ago.

[sulretal]

Deus ex, BG2, HL2, RE4, Silent Hill 2, Super smash Bros, GTA3, Oblivion, Warcraft 3, WoW, TF2, Diablo2, I only played some of these games and I'm sure others would add more but really.

I mean really, was it THAT Bad? Maybe you are being a bit dramatic?

I think there are plenty of games from the 90's that were just completely ridiculous.

In the 201x's people will be talking about games from the 200x's - it's just a cycle.

Also nostalgia does kick in, so we begin to see older experiences as the pinnacle of fun and greatness, goes back to the whole over dramatizing. Not that it's a bad thing, nostalgia is pretty cool.

[EchoTheDolphin]

Have to disagree with you there, CoD4 and Conan were very well received over a very wide audience. To be honest, I have a hard time finding any sources that say CoD4 was a flop or failed to deliver, seeing as I specifically remember alot of reviews saying it has one of the best singleplayer (SP) storylines and multiplayer (MP) combat in any FPS within the past few years. Plus you didn't mention Supreme Commander! That's blasphemy! :D

I want to point out that those are some major ones out there and the past year and a half have seen quite a few small-studio releases of low-budget games that were fantastic. Sins of a Solar empire comes to mind, which if you love RTS's like myself, was great for play among friends in MP.

This is going to sound offensive to the OP but this is the bare truth: Blizzard prefers to play alot to gamers who don't want to have quick reflexes (ala an fps) but don't want to have to sit down and think out more than a basic or intermediate strategy (ala many MMO's out there) or both plus the ability to multi task (C&C3, and RTS's like SupCom (holy crap multitasking batman if you like to play like me and essentially expand base and resources non-stop on 3-6 fronts))

And all because it simply comes down to it's a game and people want simple. I enjoyed CoD4 because it specifically went for a different kind of realism, you have time to think, but have to act quick. So no more jump, quick switch, crouch, snipe in less than a quarter second like back in CS, which lots of people (including myself) thrived on. But you have to plan a route, pick a gun and execute and react to the unexpected.


Moral of the story, it just seems like you're looking for a particular type of game. I'd strongly encourage you to go to a gamestore, bestbuy, etc and just take some time and look at some games you haven't heard of or have heard little about. Working at BBY myself, I get a better chance than most to pick up something that looks fun, and more often than not, I enjoy the heck out of it. You will too!

[SteveLord]

CoD4's visuals, audio and scalability are great. SP too of course. And while the multiplayer's perks are cool on paper...you advance really fast and all the weapons arent that different from eachother. The game ends up being mindless deathmatch with choppers and airstrikes every 5 seconds no matter what game type you play.

CoD4 does not take a lot of skill....and there is ZERO teamwork. You can easily be a 1 man show. They dont even let the servers choose to disable choppers and airstrikes. It makes hardcore mode a joke.

[Mother Goose]

Deus ex, BG2, HL2, RE4, Silent Hill 2, Super smash Bros, GTA3, Oblivion, Warcraft 3, WoW, TF2, Diablo2, I only played some of these games and I'm sure others would add more but really.

I mean really, was it THAT Bad? Maybe you are being a bit dramatic?

I think there are plenty of games from the 90's that were just completely ridiculous.

In the 201x's people will be talking about games from the 200x's - it's just a cycle.

Also nostalgia does kick in, so we begin to see older experiences as the pinnacle of fun and greatness, goes back to the whole over dramatizing. Not that it's a bad thing, nostalgia is pretty cool.

QFT. Well said and well reasoned.

[zexmarquies01]

While i can understand the idea that Blizzard is the last GOOD gaming company for PC, there is one other company that i can think of off the top of my head ( while i'm drunk as hell ).

That would be Stardock. They have Demigod coming out here eventually. And the game, Sins of a solar empire got GREAT reviews from almost ANYONE who even looked at the game.

It appears that they have a good handle on what makes PC games good, and knows how to deliver a good product to the target market, WHILE not alienating people with a ton of Anti-piracy crap loaded onto the game. That last part alone makes them VERY attractive to pirates. Many people hate companies becuase of all the anti-piracy crap that's going on. Stardock actually has a good chance of succeeding, because they WON'T hurt those who are legit, which in turn makes more people actually BUY the game, instead of just downloading it.

Also, At the moment, quite a few MMO's are being worked on. Some of these games are taking up A LOT of resources from their respective companies, which makes it appear as if they arn't doing anything at the moment. We have the StarTrek MMO, the DBZ MMO, WarHammer MMO, A new StarWars MMO ( being created by None other than Bioware ). And there are quite a few others in the making as well.

Its just blizzard has their own PERSONAL convention for their games. You don't see this from Bioware, Stardock, EA, or ANY other company. Most companies just use E3, or another Multi-company convention. Due to blizzards massive publicity, and the fact that they are ALWAYS in the public eye, it appears as if they are the only company thats doing anything at the moment.

All in all, i believe it's a matter of perception. It APPEARS as if all other companies are doing nothing, and blizzard is doing everything. But in reality, Quite a few companies are doing A LOT of work, but just don't have the marketing abilities that blizzard has.


Nothing against blizzard at all though. One of may favorite companies of all. Nearly all of their games are GREAT. Even though i can't get into WoW, I understand the appeal. But the simple fact is that they get more publicity than any other PC gaming company. And that as a lot do do with one's perception of the current condition of PC gaming.

[Mpegger]

...the DBZ MMO,...

Oh geez, is someone actually working on that? If its anything like the MUD, will it be the usual "single super being that can literally destroy an entire army with one blast". I really cant see a DBZ mmo being any good with the way the character could power up and literally have an entire solar system destroyed with one attack. :screwy:

[Shiggity]

+1 to Stardock, they are an extremely promising newer game company and I hope they do well. Sins of a solar Empire was amazing and Demigod looks revolutionary and stunning (choice to play an FPS OR RTS type playstyle in the same game, never seen that before).

But it seems like no one can even challenge Blizzard in the PC gaming arena after WoW.

Blizzard also has a really dominating lineup coming. Starcraft 2 -> Wrath of the Lich King -> Diablo 3 --> ANOTHER MMO

I look forward to all the upcoming MMO's in 2009-2010 though, there are some really neat ones coming. I'm still waiting for that perfect space / science fiction / futuristic MMO.

Can't forget the Sim Franchise either, they've sold millions upon millions of PC games and are another cornerstone to PC gaming. SPORE LOOKS SO GEWD! ;)

[beingblueeyes]

im really looking forward to fallout 3 and starcraft 2 (i know its a blizzard title). so i think pc ganeing is still worth building/buying rigs for

[ratbuddy]

UBI-suck can go to hell they have some of the worst released games ever and ive actually bought and competed in quite afew of them

That right there is part of the problem ;)

If people buy sucky games, they're gonna keep making them.

[Hardin]

Ubisoft makes good games. Recently I've been playing Silent Hunter IV which is made by Ubisoft Romania. Ubisoft Montreal makes some really good games like Assassin's Creed and Splinter Cell Chaos Theory. What Ubisoft games do you not like? There are plenty of games out there right now on the pc that are good and there'll be even more when Fall comes around.

[UnrealAlex]

CoD4 was perfect...
So to answer your topic question...yes it is just you lol.
Valve has TF2, and thats probably the best multiplayer fps game I've played ever. To each his own, I personally don't care for SC2 and D3 because they're essentially more refined originals like someone said...and I was never into the originals.

[Mr.Guvernment]

there are a ton of new games going on the rest of 2008

Blizzard makes pc gaming fun - Epic and Valve also do so

[cornbread]

It's just you.

[SteveLord]

I look forward to all the upcoming MMO's in 2009-2010 though, there are some really neat ones coming. I'm still waiting for that perfect space / science fiction / futuristic MMO.


lol...we've heard THAT line before. For years now actually. And here people are....still eventually crawling back to WoW.

I'd like to see it change, but I have zero faith in anyone producing another popular MMO. Guild Wars was probably the closest...but it is more of an MMO-Lite with no monthly fee.

Ubisoft has their portion of crappy games. Many of which come with STARFORCE INCLUDED! Splinter Cell Chaos Theory was one of them! The Rainbow6 Vegas series was there most recent line of poo IMO.

[TheGreySpectre]

While there are a lot of crummy games released I believe there a lot of good games that are released as well, I think saying blizzard is the last good game company is ignoring a lot of good game companies.

Valve's Half life 2 and subsequent episodes have been AMAZING
Bioware continues to release awesome RPGs, I thought mass effect was great.
Sins of A solar empire was a great game
Bioshock was a really good game.
I have yet to try it, but I have a ton of friends who love COD4.
There are aslo plenty of great HL2 mods out there, I spent 8 hours last night playing The Hidden Source with a whole bunch of friends and we had a blast.
Bestheda did a great job with morrowind, oblivion had some flaws, but they look to be trying to remedy many of those in Fallout 3
I am excited for Spore.
Mirror's Edge looks like it could be awesome.

It also depends on what kind of games you like, I didnt really like Warcraft 3 I thought there were much better RTSs out there. Starcraft was a lot of fun, but for old RTSs I found Age of Kings to play better. I tried original diablo and nwn and I didnt like either of them, I found them to be too hack and slash for me. I will always miss games like arcanum, planescape torment and fallout 2.

I think its less to which specific games companies are making and more toward how the companies are opeated that we should look to. I think companies like valve and blizzard have a large portion of the memorable games because they took the time to complete the games properly ensuring that they were fully tested. I think the producers of Sins of a Solar emprie have done a good job of showing that a game will still sell great with no copy protection on it as long as it is a good game.


Yes, I think it is just you.

[Ghostcustoms]

I hate blizzard right now they just bought out Sierra which was due for a World in Conflict update release. Now no release and a few server problems, good tactic to help with starcraft 2 but damn WIC is my current favorite...

[SF101]

I just hope something happens to compleatly break up the monotony right now. WOW needs to die and at this rate it isnt going to lol

i wana play a game before 2010 that i can go.. wow this is the best game ive ever played is all.

[Hardin]

I hate blizzard right now they just bought out Sierra which was due for a World in Conflict update release. Now no release and a few server problems, good tactic to help with starcraft 2 but damn WIC is my current favorite...

Blizzard didn't buy Sierra. They are both subsidiaries of Vivendi games which recently merged with Activision.

[cornbread]

lol...we've heard THAT line before. For years now actually. And here people are....still eventually crawling back to WoW.



People crawl back to WoW because it has the easiest learning curve and now from what friends have told me and reading I've done, it seems the popular thing in WoW is how easy it is to get Epics, also being referred to as welfare epics. Grind grind grind...here u go...epic. Join battlegrounds, find hiding spot and get free honor...here u go...epic.

If Blizz would go back to the pre bc days I'd go back to WoW in a minute, the pvp was better (southshore/tarren mill anyone?), getting epics you actually had too work for them, mc, bwl, aq 40, naxx.

Now they got some type of recruit a friend and help each other level while gaining 3x experience, grant levels to the recruiter, etc. People are getting to 60 (lvl cap for recruit a friend bonuses) in matter of a couple days. Now that's a challenge :screwy:.

[Hardin]

Please don't ever mention Tarren Mill and pvp in the same sentence. The only pvp going on in Hillsbrad is level 70s killing level 20s-30s. It's also pretty bad in Stranglethorn Vale.

[bLack0ut]

People crawl back to WoW because it has the easiest learning curve and now from what friends have told me and reading I've done, it seems the popular thing in WoW is how easy it is to get Epics, also being referred to as welfare epics. Grind grind grind...here u go...epic. Join battlegrounds, find hiding spot and get free honor...here u go...epic.

If Blizz would go back to the pre bc days I'd go back to WoW in a minute, the pvp was better (southshore/tarren mill anyone?), getting epics you actually had too work for them, mc, bwl, aq 40, naxx.

Now they got some type of recruit a friend and help each other level while gaining 3x experience, grant levels to the recruiter, etc. People are getting to 60 (lvl cap for recruit a friend bonuses) in matter of a couple days. Now that's a challenge :screwy:.

I give props to Blizzard for making good games, including WoW. It was so good I had to quit in fear of losing my social life LOL.

TM pvp was awesome, back in the day on stormreaver it would just be a complete lagfest/AoE explosion. It was fun being a Pom/pyro mage :).

Getting to 60 was never hard if you knew what you were doing, even before those stupid "leveling guides" (who needs a leveling guide, seriously?). I think my best 1-60 was in 4-5 played days, without that much rested.

[Redstone]

Please don't ever mention Tarren Mill and pvp in the same sentence. The only pvp going on in Hillsbrad is level 70s killing level 20s-30s. It's also pretty bad in Stranglethorn Vale.

Back when I played hardly anyone was 60 and the game was actually new and felt like early EQ. Those were great places to pvp then. But I quit long ago and never looked back

[Shiggity]

lol...we've heard THAT line before. For years now actually. And here people are....still eventually crawling back to WoW.

I'd like to see it change, but I have zero faith in anyone producing another popular MMO. Guild Wars was probably the closest...but it is more of an MMO-Lite with no monthly fee.

Ubisoft has their portion of crappy games. Many of which come with STARFORCE INCLUDED! Splinter Cell Chaos Theory was one of them! The Rainbow6 Vegas series was there most recent line of poo IMO.

I''m going to be trying warhammer when it comes out, heard some decent things about it. It's not a space MMO, but it'll take some of the pvpers away from WoW.

[>HyperlogiK<]

One of the problems I have is that some of the best PC games: Battlefield 2, Far Cry 2, Assassin's Creed, are being produced by some of the most horrible publisher's in house dev teams, and so for every brilliant moment or feature there are three or four irritating bugs.

Blizzard may be one of the last handful of stalwart PC developers, Valve have gone pretty boring since HL2, ID have gone plain crap since Quake 3, Epic have apparently gone both crap and console mad.

However, there are a number of excellent developers who do both PC and console with aplomb, Bethesda, Bioware, IO Interactive, Ubi Soft Montreal (sorry), and though Stalker was buggy, I see big things for GSC Game World.

[The Watcher]

Novalogic coming with Angel Falls...should be good. PC games r better than PS3/XBox games...also Wii stuff is for kids and noobs

[SF101]

as far as nova logic goes .. ive owned and compeated on a top squad in every single deltaforce. i ask my former pals if they are going to give NL another shot none will .. wana know why. because NL has always refused to inforce anti cheating. aswell as killing off tons and tons of hardcore players with the release of Typhoon rising and DF-X. both which were total flops in competitive play.

even at that though. angel falls will prob be better than alot of games that are out purely because the competition fell off the face of the earth.

[Mr.Guvernment]

Novalogic coming with Angel Falls...should be good. PC games r better than PS3/XBox games...also Wii stuff is for kids and noobs

i hope so, but i doubt it, all after DF2 was the same crap over and over and over., load warrior, the saber add-on, then they came out with joint ops with was awsome at first, but then got borring sitting on a slow as boat for 20mins to get to the target point

[The Watcher]

Joint Ops is still alive because of the modders. You have about 4 mods that are better than the stock game. The latest one is International Conflict-Europe. Very nice.

[jokers_greg]

blizzard: best PC game manufacturer ever imo. They have yet to release a game that didn't EXPLODE in the market (besides that spinoff of SC, i think it was called ghost or something). You can argue if you like blizz or not, but you cannot argue their success.

[IR1]

Blizzard is part of the reason PC gaming has fallen on hard times.

A LOT of the people playing WoW are doing just that... they are playing WoW, and only WoW and are not buying games at the same rate they did before they played WoW. Money and time that might have been spent on other new games is being spent on WoW.

So Blizzard is actually partially responsible... and in no way a saving grace. I would call Valve a saving grace way before I would call Blizzard one.

[Mr.Guvernment]

i dont think so, if people like other games, they will buy them, the problem is so many crappy games come out people dont buy them..

look at the FPS genre.. people buy the good games and avoid the crap - UT3 was an "EPIC" fail.....people didn't buy it cause it sucked, not cause they were playing Tf2 or cs:s all day long..

[Hardin]

i dont think so, if people like other games, they will buy them, the problem is so many crappy games come out people dont buy them..

look at the FPS genre.. people buy the good games and avoid the crap - UT3 was an "EPIC" fail.....people didn't buy it cause it sucked, not cause they were playing Tf2 or cs:s all day long..

IR1's point is that some of the people playing wow are only playing that which doesn't give them time to play other games let alone buy them.

[rainless]

Blizzard is part of the reason PC gaming has fallen on hard times.

A LOT of the people playing WoW are doing just that... they are playing WoW, and only WoW and are not buying games at the same rate they did before they played WoW. Money and time that might have been spent on other new games is being spent on WoW.

So Blizzard is actually partially responsible... and in no way a saving grace. I would call Valve a saving grace way before I would call Blizzard one.

I was just about to say the exact same thing:

I think Blizzard has done more to HARM pc gaming than all other companies combined.

The entire world STOPPED once they released World of Warcraft.

Starcraft 2? Diablo 3?

Should've been out YEARS ago. Along with Warcraft IV.

They left everybody who DIDN'T get into WoW out in the cold and the entire PC gaming industry along with it.

For that matter, we should also be on Half-Life 3 and not Half Life 2 episode 37.

The single biggest problem with PC gaming today is that NOBODY is moving the industry forward anymore.

[radium]

Why fix what isn't broken. They're a business looking to make money, they don't give a rat's ass about the progress of gaming.

[TheGreySpectre]

I know when I played wow a ton I played and bought a lot less games. Now that I only log on to wow rarely I buy and play a lot more games.


[quote]Please don't ever mention Tarren Mill and pvp in the same sentence. The only pvp going on in Hillsbrad is level 70s killing level 20s-30s. It's also pretty bad in Stranglethorn Vale.[quote]
You never played wow during the patch where they introducted honor, but BGs were yet to be introduced did you? Back than Tauren mill and crossroads were gigantic 60v60 battlegrounds, back in the days where you were awesome if you had full Tier 0.

[burningcpu]

Gamers are some of the most self-entitled people. Seriously, does the world OWE you great games? By the way some of you talk, it's like the industry personally betrayed you.

Sorry if that urinates anyone off, but I'm tired and cranky, and this topic has been beat into the ground over the last few months.

[rainless]

Why fix what isn't broken. They're a business looking to make money, they don't give a rat's ass about the progress of gaming.

But it's in their best INTEREST to push the industry forward. Look at what happened with EA: The won the NFL market... but lost every other thing they had.

As many people as they have playing WoW... there's many, MANY more who will never EVER put down a monthly fee for an MMORPG. (I'm one of them: 30 day free trial of Star Trek Online and I'll be DONE.)

It's about diversification. Back in the day, Lucasarts didn't just release a bunch of Star Wars and indiana jones games, They had Full Throttle, Grim Fandango, Freddy Pharkus Frontier Pharmacist... and hundreds of other titles of extremely diverse themes.

It doesn't take that long to drop a few new coats of paint on the next WoW update... in the meantime they could've had Diablo out to cover them on the action front Starcraft 2 out to cover them on the strategy front... they'd already be deep into expansion packs now... and still selling WoW to the people who want it... AND introducing their old franchises to a new generation that never even played Diablo 2 let alone one...

So in my opinion... their business model IS broken.

[Surfrider77]

blizzard: best PC game manufacturer ever imo. They have yet to release a game that didn't EXPLODE in the market ... You can argue if you like blizz or not, but you cannot argue their success.

Success I wont argue, but their MMO isnt the best. (Personal opinion)

Most ppl argue best due to sheer volume of subs. I say thats like saying "McDonalds makes the best hamburgers because they sell more than anyone else in the world!". Blizzard is the McDonalds of MMOs.

[technoViking]

Success I wont argue, but their MMO isnt the best. (Personal opinion)

Most ppl argue best due to sheer volume of subs. I say thats like saying "McDonalds makes the best hamburgers because they sell more than anyone else in the world!". Blizzard is the McDonalds of MMOs.

nicely said!

[Ethre]

How about some hope then?
Mount&Blade is pretty promising - especially for a two person indie team. The story/plot isn't too deep or interesting, but the actual gameplay is really neat.

[nasvemos671]

Yeah I can relate to the whole people only playing WoW thing because when I turned into a hardcore player I didnt buy any other kind of game. I still kinda don't, but I own most of the games listed ie. hl2 ut3 bf2 wc3 etc etc. And I enjoy WoW plain and simple. Blizzard realized it was losing money by not appealling to the casual player so guess what they did? Appealed to the casual player and oh..10.9 million players later what business wouldnt? Run the numbers its quite alot of money they made. I'd be lying if I said I play WoW because the gameplay is great; no, its not bad but it is aging but the main reason I play it is because of the social aspect. Getting 5,10-25 people together to overcome a common goal, I think that is so cool. Excuse me for sounding nub but that is why I play it, no other game RIGHT NOW gives me that. And until another game does I don't think I'll stop playing til then

I mean I'm no t6 raider, raid everyday, sell your soul to get into a 25-man, but I'm pretty geared and my guild is pretty casual so we keep it kinda fun.

[SF101]

Gamers are some of the most self-entitled people. Seriously, does the world OWE you great games? By the way some of you talk, it's like the industry personally betrayed you.

because they make there $ off us.
people wonder why they are going broke ect. this is why, they make subpar games people buy them once maybe twice then people stop and the company goes broke.

in my game vault i have hundreds of purchased games i for one buy/bought alot of games.. but year by year i buy less and less of them .. this year would be the first year ever ive bought more Console games (PS3) than PC games. and its not for lack of hope or faith. its a simple fact that hardly any pc game designer is giving out 100% effort now a days.

a prime example is GRAW 1&2 . they had some major players early on and now after 2 id expect a extremely low # of those players to ever play another ubisoft game again.

do they owe us something?

well ive spent thousands on thousands of dollars over the years on games and pc's to play those games. and every year they give people less reason do that so.. yea i do feel like they owe us something.

thats like saying do comic book writer's owe comic book readers a good story. obviously they do.

here is a example i play Assassins creed on ps3 and then played it on pc. not only was it better to control on my ps3 it actually played better imho. and on a 60" HDTV@1080P its kind of hard to beat. why? cuz it was a port most likely and sadly i payed 6-7x or more for my pc than i did on my ps3.

and again all im saying is to me it seems blizzard is the only company still focusing on making a stamp in pc gaming history anymore as per my title of thread.

who knows maybe some designer will see this and light a fire under his ass.

[SteveLord]

a prime example is GRAW 1&2 . they had some major players early on and now after 2 id expect a extremely low # of those players to ever play another ubisoft game again.


Those games practically mirrored the Rainbow 6 Vegas games. Use Tom Clancy's familiar name, release it buggy and unsupported. Then release a "sequel" which is nothing more than an expansion in reality and charge full price. And of course....continue buggy and unsupported business model.

[SF101]

either way teams such as HOT played it and wanted it to work and yet what happens? game dies.

[Shiggity]

I really agree with whoever said WoW actually hurt game production because people who play it don't really play anything else / buy as much as they did before. That's how it was for me.

As far as every mmo I've played, WoW was by far the best.

[nasvemos671]

I agree with Shiggity it has hurt actual game production.

[radium]

It's not in their best interest to create cutting edge games. You talked about never wanting to pay a monthly fee, and how Blizzard should cater to you.

You don't realize that blizzard WILL get someone who will pay 3 months worth of monthly fees that will cover the purchase price of any new game (Diablo 3, SC2) that you would have forked over. And... they don't have to do a thing. They have to give WoW a new coat of paint every 1.5 years (which costs 30-40 bucks mind you).

They're publicizing WoW because they make hundreds of millions of dollars in income from that one game with relatively few business expenses (GM's, running a server, 2-3 content developers).

They know exactly what they're doing, half of you guys badmouthing Blizzard/WoW just don't like WoW as a game or how Blizzard has annihilated the MMO market squeezing all the income out of the other companies.

[jokers_greg]

Success I wont argue, but their MMO isnt the best. (Personal opinion)

Most ppl argue best due to sheer volume of subs. I say thats like saying "McDonalds makes the best hamburgers because they sell more than anyone else in the world!". Blizzard is the McDonalds of MMOs.

How is blizzard the mcdonalds of MMOs. That would be true, if WoW was some super inexpensive game that millions bought and played. Unfortunately it isn't cheap in any way. I'd call them more of the microsoft of MMOs.

The other point floating around is that blizzard did damage to the world of PC gaming because everyone plays wow and has no time for other games. You're telling me, that if a company releases the ultimate game (not saying that wow is), that they're ruining PC gaming? Isn't that what every manufacturer is pursuing? It's all about competition, and clearly, other game manufacturers don't have what it takes atm.

There's more to PC games than just the game itself. Marketing for example comes to mind.

[jokers_greg]

They know exactly what they're doing, half of you guys badmouthing Blizzard/WoW just don't like WoW as a game or how Blizzard has annihilated the MMO market squeezing all the income out of the other companies.

Thankyou, i agree 100%. If WAR was as dominant as blizzard, i'd imagine half of the "ruining of pc gaming world" posts, wouldn't exist in this thread.

[cornbread]

You never played wow during the patch where they introducted honor, but BGs were yet to be introduced did you? Back than Tauren mill and crossroads were gigantic 60v60 battlegrounds, back in the days where you were awesome if you had full Tier 0.


Exactly! If you had your complete set from various instances like Strat, Scholo, UBRS, etc...you were something. I can't count how many times I went to Strat hoping my pants would drop from Baron, but they never did.

60vs60 pvp back in that day...now, that was truly EPIC. Not the BS grindfest it has turned into today. WorldDefense would pop, "Tarren Mill is under attack", and all 60's would mount up or get on zep, etc. Hell they don't even have WorldDefense channel anymore, just LocalDefense, so now you have no clue if your city/town is being hit by the other side. :screwy:

[DaPoets]

Sorry but PlanetSide was one of the best MMO's ever made. Global team work of the high level CR5's all funneling down to a small team of 3 taking over a tower while out numbered just so the main force can have a spawn point to help them capture a base which is just one of many bases on a continent to help increase the tech level of the faction so they can roll tanks up on the rest of the continent. That was good times and you could monitor how the battle was going while you were at work too!! I miss that damn game so much and would pay an arm and a leg for a PlanetSide 2 to come out.

[SteveLord]

Blizzard made a great game, it didnt require a $2000 computer, was fully supported, had tons of additional content and balance changes made, 2nd expansion pack on the horizon, etc.

And its their fault because other companies couldn't get poor implemented MMOs or even regular games off the ground? And they never stuck around to support them either. Granted...some MMOs took some players away, but many still went back. Because it was more fun.

And its not Blizzard's fault that this game has been out for 4 years and still nobody can come up with anything worth squat to do better.

They churn out 1 game every few years that is better and has a longer life than dozens of games the big boys crap out every single year.

[IR1]

All I said was that WoW has hurt the PC gaming industry overall because they have basically owned a large portion of the market that used to spread the money around a little more. I did not say it was evil or wrong or that I hated WoW, I am just stating a straight up fact and you know its true.

There is a finite amount of time and money that each gamer has and a lot of it goes to WoW. Therefore there is less to go to other games, devs, and publishers.

That is not to say you cannot still have other succesful games. Fortunately for the PC gaming industry not all of us have been zombified by the MMO training wheels game known as WoW.

And remember we are only talking about PC gaming here. console gamers (which many of us are) still outnumber PC gamers. Which is why the console industry really is not affected as much by WoW.

Oh and I 2nd the idea of Planetside 2. That crap was just plain fun.

[jokers_greg]

Blizzard made a great game, it didnt require a $2000 computer, was fully supported, had tons of additional content and balance changes made, 2nd expansion pack on the horizon, etc.

And its their fault because other companies couldn't get poor implemented MMOs or even regular games off the ground? And they never stuck around to support them either. Granted...some MMOs took some players away, but many still went back. Because it was more fun.

And its not Blizzard's fault that this game has been out for 4 years and still nobody can come up with anything worth squat to do better.

They churn out 1 game every few years that is better and has a longer life than dozens of games the big boys crap out every single year.

that was my point too. I agree 100%

[rainless]

Blizzard made a great game, it didnt require a $2000 computer, was fully supported, had tons of additional content and balance changes made, 2nd expansion pack on the horizon, etc.

And its their fault because other companies couldn't get poor implemented MMOs or even regular games off the ground? And they never stuck around to support them either. Granted...some MMOs took some players away, but many still went back. Because it was more fun.

And its not Blizzard's fault that this game has been out for 4 years and still nobody can come up with anything worth squat to do better.

They churn out 1 game every few years that is better and has a longer life than dozens of games the big boys crap out every single year.

That's under achievement. They need not churn out crap titles... I don't think Blizzard COULD make a bad Diablo, Warcraft. or Starcraft. They could re-release those games exactly as they are with a new story and updated graphics and the people would LOVE it. (Especially those that never got a chance to try the original.)

If they've made a boatload of money on WoW... it's NOTHING compared to what they could've made by keeping their other franchises strong. Diablo 2 was out... what? About 8 years ago almost? That means your 16 year old gamer of today was only EIGHT when it came out... and TWO when the first Diablo game came out.

That's a problem.

Not releasing a timely follow-up to something that was as huge a hit as Diablo II is a problem.

Releasing only one expansion for Warcraft III... (When age of Empires III as had three or four expansions) is a problem.

Eleven years since Starcraft is a problem.

And the biggest problem is going to be getting back in the swing of making all those games after nearly a decade's-long hiatus.

[SteveLord]

I know. I too would have liked more StarCraft and Diablo games. Maybe the whole SC:Ghost being dropped put them off.

But they have undergone some changes (activision thing) and hopefully it benefits us beyond these next 2 titles. But I'll put money on that as opposed to anyone else.

[jokers_greg]

That's under achievement. They need not churn out crap titles... I don't think Blizzard COULD make a bad Diablo, Warcraft. or Starcraft. They could re-release those games exactly as they are with a new story and updated graphics and the people would LOVE it. (Especially those that never got a chance to try the original.)

If they've made a boatload of money on WoW... it's NOTHING compared to what they could've made by keeping their other franchises strong. Diablo 2 was out... what? About 8 years ago almost? That means your 16 year old gamer of today was only EIGHT when it came out... and TWO when the first Diablo game came out.

That's a problem.

Not releasing a timely follow-up to something that was as huge a hit as Diablo II is a problem.

Releasing only one expansion for Warcraft III... (When age of Empires III as had three or four expansions) is a problem.

Eleven years since Starcraft is a problem.

And the biggest problem is going to be getting back in the swing of making all those games after nearly a decade's-long hiatus.

12 years since SC. Came out in 1996 no?

[rainless]

I know. I too would have liked more StarCraft and Diablo games. Maybe the whole SC:Ghost being dropped put them off.

But they have undergone some changes (activision thing) and hopefully it benefits us beyond these next 2 titles. But I'll put money on that as opposed to anyone else.

Yeah... That's going to be a tough one. The Activision merger mixed with the fact that they simply haven't DONE IT in so long is going to make things tricky. A lot of people who've been around for a while were calling Bioshock System Shock Lite. There was a span of... what? 10 years between the two games?

It's very hard to build on what you had when you've lost all that momentum. It seems like the Age of Empires people have done a decent job on steadily building AOEIII. And of course The Frozen Throne was an EXCELLENT advancement over the basics of WCIII.

...but that' because they had JUST finished Warcraft III. They were able to sit back and say "Alright... now what else could we have done? What would've been cool?" And just build it up on the spot.

NOW they're at the point with Starcraft and Diablo that it's like "Okay... now WHAT was it we wanted to do ten years ago? HOW did we do that one thing?"

Add to that the stress of the merger and the high expectations... they've really put themselves in a bad spot.

That said: I really hope they're able to deliver anyway.

[Hardin]

12 years since SC. Came out in 1996 no?

Warcraft 2 came out in '96. Starcraft came out in '98.

[rainless]

Warcraft 2 came out in '96. Starcraft came out in '98.

Back of the box says 97.

[Hardin]

Back of the box says 97.

What box? Starcraft came out on March 31, 1998. I was wrong about Warcraft 2 though. It came out in December of 1995.

[Shiggity]

That's under achievement. They need not churn out crap titles... I don't think Blizzard COULD make a bad Diablo, Warcraft. or Starcraft. They could re-release those games exactly as they are with a new story and updated graphics and the people would LOVE it. (Especially those that never got a chance to try the original.)

If they've made a boatload of money on WoW... it's NOTHING compared to what they could've made by keeping their other franchises strong. Diablo 2 was out... what? About 8 years ago almost? That means your 16 year old gamer of today was only EIGHT when it came out... and TWO when the first Diablo game came out.

That's a problem.

Not releasing a timely follow-up to something that was as huge a hit as Diablo II is a problem.

Releasing only one expansion for Warcraft III... (When age of Empires III as had three or four expansions) is a problem.

Eleven years since Starcraft is a problem.

And the biggest problem is going to be getting back in the swing of making all those games after nearly a decade's-long hiatus.

Excellent point Rainless, I wonder if Blizzard can even make another game good enough for another franchise to emerge.

However, Blizzard has mastered the PC gaming industry on the global scale. While most PC game companies only cater to the biggest regions, Blizzard has a market almost everywhere where people have computers / internet. I guess they figure they can keep milking their warcraft, starcraft, and diablo franchises for a while longer, and they're probably right.

Blizzard is currently working on their 'Next Gen MMO'. I wouldn't mind if it was based on starcraft, but I doubt they're doing that. We'll see how good it is if it's not based off an already successful franchise.

The next big thing in the gaming industry is going to be an MMO that is easily played on a console. That would sell a bajillion copies.

[thideras]

The next big thing in the gaming industry is going to be an MMO that is easily played on a console. That would sell a bajillion copies.Good luck with that, there is just way too much to do in an MMO to be able to condense it to 12 buttons. FFXI did it "ok", but it is really hard to play with so little buttons.

[Shiggity]

Good luck with that, there is just way too much to do in an MMO to be able to condense it to 12 buttons. FFXI did it "ok", but it is really hard to play with so little buttons.

I didn't say it would be easy ;)

[rainless]

What box? Starcraft came out on March 31, 1998. I was wrong about Warcraft 2 though. It came out in December of 1995.

Back of the starcraft box. I can scan it in if you want. :)

Maybe that was just the copyright date though...

[Hardin]

Back of the starcraft box. I can scan it in if you want. :)

Maybe that was just the copyright date though...

I don't doubt you, but Blizzard's own website says it came out in 1998. http://www.blizzard.com/us/inblizz/profile.html

[radium]

They don't make much money off of starcraft/warcraft III. They get the initial purchase price and then they have to supply you with a life time of Battle.net subscriptions which, in Diablo II's case is probably amounted to more than you bought the game for.

Dollar for dollar, investing all of their time and programming into WoW will reap more profits. They haven't lost momentum, they know perfectly well how to make a game. As I said before, they're a business out to make money.

Personally, I've been playing Diablo II: LOD for almost 3 years, I bought the game for 40 bucks. I've been playing WoW since beta release which is 3 and a half years, and I've spent 450 dollars, not counting the expansion packs.

[nightelph]

I would kill for Warcraft 4. I miss WoW, but won't consider going back until January after the fall gaming season is over.

[rainless]

They don't make much money off of starcraft/warcraft III.

Are you kidding? They're STILL selling Starcraft/Warcraft III today.

In most retail outlets, the warcraft battle chest is STILL going for $39.99.


...like 6 years after it was released.

Starcraft is probably still going for $29.99 10 years after it was released.

That's no mean feat.

I personally just bought Warcraft III in 2006. Paid about 30 euros for it (bought ROC and TFT for 15 euros a piece individually... at the same time, battle chest would've cost me 40 euros.)

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one either because none of those games (except maybe the original Diablo) have gone out of print.

[Neural Net]

is it me or is blizzard the last saving grace in pc games?

It isn't and will never be. Even Starcraft when it was released ten years ago was already behind the times. With the rare exception that is WoW, if the whole industry acted like Blizzard the games market would have become stagnant years ago, like a lake with no fresh water.

[radium]

Are you kidding? They're STILL selling Starcraft/Warcraft III today.

In most retail outlets, the warcraft battle chest is STILL going for $39.99.


...like 6 years after it was released.

Starcraft is probably still going for $29.99 10 years after it was released.

That's no mean feat.


That's not the point I was shooting at, I was inferring that they get no income after the consumer has bought one of their older bnet games. They then have to provide a free, relatively stable environment as long as there are still people who want to play the game.

Diablo III is going to be the same way. I expect a great rock solid game, however I don't think it will get nearly the amount of lip service that WoW gets. I don't expect Blizzard will distribute new loot, new places, new fights unless you buy an expansion pack (of which I think D3 will have quite a few).

[Shiggity]

On the plus side I heard they are making a lot of nice improvements to battle.net for starcraft 2 and diablo 3. Not sure what they are, but couldn't hurt.

[cornbread]

Are you kidding? They're STILL selling Starcraft/Warcraft III today.

In most retail outlets, the warcraft battle chest is STILL going for $39.99.





You beat me to it. ;)

Heck Diablo 2 still sells for $26.00+ http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=diablo+2+battle+chest&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title, so Blizz is still making $$$ or they wouldn't be selling it at the price.

For example, Farcry, we all know was a great game, but heck you can get it cheap now, because no one plays it anymore, not much demand. http://www.google.com/products?q=farcry&btnG=Search+Products&hl=en&show=dd

[nightelph]

For example, Farcry, we all know was a great game, but heck you can get it cheap now, because no one plays it anymore, not much demand. http://www.google.com/products?q=farcry&btnG=Search+Products&hl=en&show=dd

Very true. I really loved FarCry, one of the early games to use shader model 3.0. I saw a stripped version containing a couples levels on a Best Buy cheapo rack for $6.99.

Blizzard has staying power.

[rainless]

That's not the point I was shooting at, I was inferring that they get no income after the consumer has bought one of their older bnet games. They then have to provide a free, relatively stable environment as long as there are still people who want to play the game.

Diablo III is going to be the same way. I expect a great rock solid game, however I don't think it will get nearly the amount of lip service that WoW gets. I don't expect Blizzard will distribute new loot, new places, new fights unless you buy an expansion pack (of which I think D3 will have quite a few).

Well then you just sabotaged your own point:

I get what you were shooting at... But what I was shooting at was sustained sales over a period of 6-10 years! Doesn't really matter if people are paying a monthly fee for a game if people are still paying $30-40 for the game ten years after it's released.

And you obviously don't understand the situation if you think Diablo III "isn't going to get nearly the amount of lipservice" as WoW. Diablo II still gets "nearly the amount of lip service" as WoW. That's why they're still able to charge so much for it.

Plus, with Blizzard revamping Battle.net... they stand to make plenty of money off of advertising. (I see ads for AT&T, the KillerNIC, and plenty of other products now, they're going to be making TEN FOLD off of advertising once Starcraft 2 and Diablo III come out.)

I'm afraid you're mistaken.

They might not make as much money in the short term as WoW... but they stand to make much more money in the long term. (Especially if the added brand recognition gives them an opportunity to release a Diablo Online, and Starcraft online once a new generation has been introduced to those franchises...)

[radium]

I can count the number of patches Diablo II has had in the past 4 years on one hand. That's what I consider attention from Blizzard. They have released Uber Tristram, added Warden and have gotten rid of all the duped items since I last played the game over 4 years ago.

We're not arguing the same point, and yet you still insist that I'm wrong constantly. From what I can understand, you're arguing that because of the great games that Blizzard releases, people will buy it for x amount of dollars down the road leading to an eventual net gain through advertising and initial sales.

I'm arguing that while they stand to make a long term gain, while they are dominating the MMORPG market like they are, they should continue to merely develop new content for WoW and keep their 10 million subscribers paying 15$ a month.

It doesn't take a math major to realize that even if Diablo III has ground breaking sales 1 million+ within the first month, even if it was pure profit, WoW fees would easily triple it. Once Blizzard loses their MMORPG 'untouchable' status, they can start looking to different venues for income. It's not like they need the brand name recognition either, they have so many fan boys who have been playing their games since they were little.

[rainless]

I can count the number of patches Diablo II has had in the past 4 years on one hand. That's what I consider attention from Blizzard. They have released Uber Tristram, added Warden and have gotten rid of all the duped items since I last played the game over 4 years ago.

We're not arguing the same point, and yet you still insist that I'm wrong constantly. From what I can understand, you're arguing that because of the great games that Blizzard releases, people will buy it for x amount of dollars down the road leading to an eventual net gain through advertising and initial sales.

I'm arguing that while they stand to make a long term gain, while they are dominating the MMORPG market like they are, they should continue to merely develop new content for WoW and keep their 10 million subscribers paying 15$ a month.

It doesn't take a math major to realize that even if Diablo III has ground breaking sales 1 million+ within the first month, even if it was pure profit, WoW fees would easily triple it. Once Blizzard loses their MMORPG 'untouchable' status, they can start looking to different venues for income. It's not like they need the brand name recognition either, they have so many fan boys who have been playing their games since they were little.

You're right: We're not arguing the same point. Of course WoW is going to keep making them money... I thought that was sort of a given.

MY point was... they could make MORE. And there's no point in waiting until WoW dies to start putting other things out there. (As a matter of fact, that would be dangerously foolish.)

There ARE people who've been playing the games since they were little... but most of those games came out before everybody on earth had a computer. So there are many, many, MANY more who've never played them at all.

Again you're right... you just aren't COMPLETELY right. :)

[AngryArtichoke]

I miss the days of old. I'd kill for another game by Looking Glass Studios.

Blizzard cuts the mustard in my book though. It's something different than most EA games. SC and WC were top favorites of mine, but I was really turned off by WC3. Although I still play it religiously for the custom maps, the micro wasn't really my thing. I hope SC2 won't be like that, and that they are telling the truth about making it not like it.

As for Diablo, I'll only shell out money for it if it's innovative. If it's merely a Diablo 2 on a new engine, then I see no point to fund their lack of creation. I think I'll let the fan boys keep them afloat until the next release.

[rugscrubber]

People crawl back to WoW because it has the easiest learning curve and now from what friends have told me and reading I've done, it seems the popular thing in WoW is how easy it is to get Epics, also being referred to as welfare epics. Grind grind grind...here u go...epic. Join battlegrounds, find hiding spot and get free honor...here u go...epic.

If Blizz would go back to the pre bc days I'd go back to WoW in a minute, the pvp was better (southshore/tarren mill anyone?), getting epics you actually had too work for them, mc, bwl, aq 40, naxx.

Now they got some type of recruit a friend and help each other level while gaining 3x experience, grant levels to the recruiter, etc. People are getting to 60 (lvl cap for recruit a friend bonuses) in matter of a couple days. Now that's a challenge :screwy:.

this was meant to help ppl see content before the xpac. Still though... ppl can go grind battle grounds all they want... the gear still isnt going to get them into high end content. PvP gear is NOT PvE gear. It can hold you over through Badgezahn and maybe Grull but thats it. Im not taking anyone in PvP gear into ZA or farthur... just not gonna happen.

[Wraith]

Rugscrubber, [MOD EDIT OUT]

I hear it all the time, "PvP gear isnt PvE gear omgzzz!"

It's true, to a point. As a DPS class all you need is a bit more +hit and pvp gear is golden, and can even be better than comparable PvE rewards.

Try to be educated before you make rash decisions. This is coming from a person who took his S3 Ret paladin through ZA a few times as number 1 dps.

[rugscrubber]

Rugscrubber, that's because you're a cry baby care bear.

I hear it all the time, "PvP gear isnt PvE gear omgzzz!"

It's true, to a point. As a DPS class all you need is a bit more +hit and pvp gear is golden, and can even be better than comparable PvE rewards.

Try to be educated before you make rash decisions. This is coming from a person who took his S3 Ret paladin through ZA a few times as number 1 dps.

nothing to do with it at all. The fact is that the itemezation on PvP gear is no adequate for end game raiding. There are some exceptions, as you mentioned S3 DPS gear. In this you are correct. S3 DPS gear easily comes up to par with T5-T6 PvE gear. But it still lacks some stats needed in PvE... intellect being one of them and as you mentioned hit rating.

Would i take a tank (is there PvP tank gear? no) or a healer into a T6 raid with PvP gear no chance in hell.

rogue, shammy, and dps plate pvp gear is about as far as Id go... Hunter pvp gear to an extent but not so much.

and It seems we were hardly talking about S3 as it is... we're talking about new 70's hitting BG's and grinding honor for epics to raid in... huge difference. S3 was made to be similar to T6... S1 & S2... not so much

Be constructive rather than "ZOMG YOURE A CAREBEAR, /TEAR I WANT IN YOUR T6 RAID IN MY WELLFARE EPICS"

[rainless]

Rugscrubber, that's because you're a cry baby care bear.

I hear it all the time, "PvP gear isnt PvE gear omgzzz!"

It's true, to a point. As a DPS class all you need is a bit more +hit and pvp gear is golden, and can even be better than comparable PvE rewards.

Try to be educated before you make rash decisions. This is coming from a person who took his S3 Ret paladin through ZA a few times as number 1 dps.

You know what... I'm kind of tired of people making personal insults over games. ESPECIALLY *this* game.

There are already people being stabbed to death and committing suicide over this nonsense.

And, last I checked, you're not allowed to make personal attacks on OCF. Course... I'm no mod or anything... let me go check with the right people.

[WarriorII]

Rugscrubber, that's because you're a cry baby care bear.

I hear it all the time, "PvP gear isnt PvE gear omgzzz!"

It's true, to a point. As a DPS class all you need is a bit more +hit and pvp gear is golden, and can even be better than comparable PvE rewards.

Try to be educated before you make rash decisions. This is coming from a person who took his S3 Ret paladin through ZA a few times as number 1 dps.


Forum Code of Conduct

We are especially concerned that EVERYONE who comes here finds a warm welcome and is well received.

To this end, we have established over time a few simple rules which allow for a broad diversity of opinions and points of view to express themselves, without creating disharmony and ill-will. They are as follows:

1. Absolutely NO personal attacks will be tolerated, no exceptions!


I know you've already been warned by a MOD today.

You are now taking a 3 day Vacation.

[WarriorII]

My actions may seem a bit bit harsh, but this member has already been warned by a Mod and yet this Thread was Reported AGAIN for HIS actions leaving me wonder if he takes it serious or not.

WII

EDIT:
I would like to Apologize to Wraith Publicly.
Jon gave him a warning for a reported posting.

There was another report of the same posting, I did not fully catch that.
I thought it was a different posting. I acted in hast.

I am sorry and reversing what I did.

I will be more careful in the future.

WII

[Wraith]

nothing to do with it at all. The fact is that the itemezation on PvP gear is no adequate for end game raiding. There are some exceptions, as you mentioned S3 DPS gear. In this you are correct. S3 DPS gear easily comes up to par with T5-T6 PvE gear. But it still lacks some stats needed in PvE... intellect being one of them and as you mentioned hit rating.

Would i take a tank (is there PvP tank gear? no) or a healer into a T6 raid with PvP gear no chance in hell.

rogue, shammy, and dps plate pvp gear is about as far as Id go... Hunter pvp gear to an extent but not so much.

and It seems we were hardly talking about S3 as it is... we're talking about new 70's hitting BG's and grinding honor for epics to raid in... huge difference. S3 was made to be similar to T6... S1 & S2... not so much

Be constructive rather than "ZOMG YOURE A CAREBEAR, /TEAR I WANT IN YOUR T6 RAID IN MY WELLFARE EPICS"

Now healing is the exact same story. A PVP preist gives up spirit for resiliance, not exactly a big loss. At worst the priest will lose a few hundred mana, and I do mean at the WORST. If your raid comes down to a priest having a minute amount of mana less than another priest might over the course of a fight, you are making other mistakes.

I've been playing WoW since closed beta, and it angers me to no end when people see a mage in S3/4 and wont take him for a raid because hes "PvP" spec. Even with PvP rewards, it's not a black and white line like some people say.

What you're trying to say is that you dont want people with poor gear raiding, not people with PvP gear raiding. There is a HUGE difference.

[rainless]

Now healing is the exact same story. A PVP preist gives up spirit for resiliance, not exactly a big loss. At worst the priest will lose a few hundred mana, and I do mean at the WORST. If your raid comes down to a priest having a minute amount of mana less than another priest might over the course of a fight, you are making other mistakes.

I've been playing WoW since closed beta, and it angers me to no end when people see a mage in S3/4 and wont take him for a raid because hes "PvP" spec. Even with PvP rewards, it's not a black and white line like some people say.

What you're trying to say is that you dont want people with poor gear raiding, not people with PvP gear raiding. There is a HUGE difference.

Let me level with you:

It's a game. And this is NOT the World of Warcraft thread.

Time to let it go.

[Wraith]

Let me level with you:

It's a game. And this is NOT the World of Warcraft thread.

Time to let it go.


Let me level with you:

I am aware that my post, and about five before it were off topic. As is your post.

You are not a moderator.

Time to let it go.


And to correct a mistake in my post above, you do lose a bit more int on the PVP sets.

Since I didnt contribute to the thread to start with, I do not believe Blizzard is holding all of the cards at this point. I think they are just the fan fav at this point and are getting the most attention. I'm being optimistic about PC games coming out in the next few months. (I'm looking at you Valve)

[WarriorII]

EDIT:
I would like to Apologize to Wraith Publicly.
Jon gave him a warning for a reported posting.

There was another report of the same posting, I did not fully catch that.
I thought it was a different posting. I acted in hast.

I am sorry and reversing what I did.

I will be more careful in the future.

WII

[rainless]

Let me level with you:

I am aware that my post, and about five before it were off topic. As is your post.

You are not a moderator.

Time to let it go.

We're going to be such great friends... :D

[SF101]

lol off topic boys. back on.

i sure hope some game designers read this somehow and go .. oh wow lightbulb.

[rainless]

lol off topic boys. back on.

i sure hope some game designers read this somehow and go .. oh wow lightbulb.

Pfft... Game designers don't LEARN anything.