First time WC build: Many Many Questions

[StellaTerra]

First, I'll follow the instructions on the sticky and give the standard info:

1. "List why you want to watercool. Is it noise, performance, abit of both, or to be the only guy in the retirement home with a watercooled A64."
Because it's a fun project, and for the silence, performance benefits are secondary.
2. "List your budget. From small to large, watercooling parts can be selected to fit your budget."
Very high. $500... more really if I think I need it. But I want to avoid buying whole parts as much as possible, as this is supposed to be a build project.
3. "List what tools you have or have access and how proficient you are with them."
Very few, but I'm willing to aquire both. I have a heatless (Sharper Image) soldering iron, though I've never used it before. I did soldering (ICs on a PCB) in a class in college 4 years ago, but that seems different. I've never worked with sheet metal. I know my way around the inside of my case. ^_^
4. "List what kind of encloser (case) you have. And whether you are willing to cut it up."
Antec P182. Yes, though I don't think it's necessary for this project.
5. "List what computer parts you have (basics like CPU, motherboard) or will be getting for your watercooled monster."
Gigabyte EP45-DS3R (P45 chipset)
Intel C2 Q9550 (Currently at 3 GHz)
BFG Tech Geforce GTX 280 OC2E (Currently core at 650 MHz and memory at 2326 MHz)
OCZ Reaper HPC 2x2GB


So here's the project:
This is my first attempt at water cooling, and I want to do it right. More importantly than cheap, is right. I came up with an interesting idea. I was trying to design out the shroud and I thought of a better idea. I want to create a small enclosure to house most of the system's components. I was thinking I'd build it of aluminum, and that it would house the heater core, the fans, the pump, and (if I get one at all) the reservoir.
To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, here's a picture:

http://www.ocforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68242&stc=1&d=1222635541
Some of the measurements are rough estimates, but this gives you the idea.

So, I have boatloads of questions. First, is this a good idea? Is there a reason this would kill the performance of the system? Is there a better way of going about this? Have a designed it poorly?
My second question is, how can I put this together? A friend of mine suggested that I solder the whole thing together, and that sounded pretty cool, but is it a good idea?
Probably the biggest question in my mind at this phase is about parts. I'm already in contact with a local radiator specialist, so that's taken care of. The fans will be Nexus D12SL-12, and I'm getting two for the box. The cpu block is D-Tek Fuzion, and the GPU block will be the Koolance VID-428. Other than those parts, I'm in need of some recommendations.

Most importantly, I need a pump. It needs to be small enough to fit in the space, and if I'm not doing a reservoir, than I'd like to get one that is submersible so that I can do a closed loop. I need it to be silent.
I want to do quick-connects at the case. It seems there are a lot of quick connects out there, so I'm looking for a recommendation. I want them to be at the PC's back bracket, so that I can quickly disconnect the and move the entire system. Any ideas?
Finally, there are a lot of reservoirs, I'm not sure what I should go with. Does it matter? Should I make my own? Out of what, acrylic? Also, could I just fill the back chamber with water, seal it, and put a submersible pump in there?

I'm concerned about the power. I'd like to use direct current. I have a molex port on the back of the computer, so what I'd like is to be able to get one of those nifty external molex connectors and just be able to plug in the a single female somewhere on the box and have that power the fans and the pump.
I also have concerns about undervolting the fans. I a thing at silentpcreview about how to do it, but I didn't quit get it. I'd like these fans to run at either 5v or 7v, and from what I read it sounds like you need to have another device on the same line otherwise it breaks your PSU. Will the pump suffice as the other device? Am I getting this wrong? If someone could point me the way of a good guide, that'd be great.

So how do I work with metal, anyway? I get the impression that I want to score it along the folds with an awl, is there anything I should know about this? Can I just drill through the metal where I want? How should I cut the metal? How do I attach the center divider to the case? How do I attach the pump to the case? How should I attach the heater core and fans to the side of the case? How can I produce water-proof holes in the center divider and on the outside for the hoses to go through?

Are there any other pieces of wisdom y'all'd like to pass on to a newbie? This is probably too many questions for one thread, I apologize for my over-eager curiosity. I've just never worked with metal before. If anyone has just a guide to working with sheet metal of this kind, I'm definitely receptive to that.

With love and respect,
Stella-Terra

[billb]

I have a heatless (Sharper Image) soldering iron,
Throw it away! It heats by inducing a high frequency electronic signal into what it is heating, thereby likely frying anything electronic on the circuit!


First, is this a good idea? Is what a good idea....a remote rad box? Most people don't do it that way. They just build the WC components into a case.

Have a designed it poorly? Yes

My second question is, how can I put this together? Aluminum angle and pop rivets/glue would work fine.

biggest question...a local radiator specialist, so that's taken care of. If he hasn't built a bunch of WC systems don't pay any attention to anything he says. In fact, just buy a PA120.3 rad and be done with it.(maybe two of then...see fans, below)

fans will be Nexus D12SL-12, HA! Those are low cfm, low pressure fans (see P-Q curve (http://arx-europe.com/pq.html) definition). Even without undervolying they would be a poor choice and would necessitate a second rad at the least.

Most importantly, I need a pump. All pumps have electric motors which generate heat. A submersible pump just dumps all it's heat into the cooling water. Look at a Laing DDC (http://www.petrastechshop.com/laddcwpeddto.html) or a Laing D5 Vario (http://www.petrastechshop.com/dadenlad5in1.html)

...quick connects Colder Products has some excellent no leak/quick connect fittings (http://www.colder.com/Products/tabid/693/Default.aspx?ProductId=14) (I'll bet you never though about quick disconnects requiring that the system be drained before disconnection. The no leak function saves that mess)

...reservoirs, Use a t-line

...a molex port on the back of the computer That can work, if it can supply the amperage needed by the pumps and fans. Adding a small, cheap PSU to your radbox will avoid the problem of having to have electrical connections between it and the PC in addition to the hoses.


...undervolting the fans. Just add a rheostat to your radbox to control fan speeds.


So how do I work with metal, anyway? If you have to ask, you probably shouldn't. Read up on the subject.


Are there any other pieces of wisdom y'all'd like to pass on to a newbie?
Yes Read a lot more about watercooling A good place to start is Martin's Liquid Lab (http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/) The stickies here and on other watercooling forums are great sources of information.

[StellaTerra]

Throw it away!...
Thanks so much for the tip, I'da ruined everything!

HA! Those are low cfm, low pressure fans...
I'm sorry, I don't think I was explicit enough in my original post. My top priority is silence, so slow silent fans are ideal for me. I'm not really looking to yank out every degree I can.
Priorities:
1. Silence
2. Home made (over store bough)
3. Low Maintenance
4. Portability
5. Cooling performance

Colder Products has...
Rad, thanks for the recommendation!

Use a t-line
Any particular reason why?

Adding a small, cheap PSU to your radbox will avoid...
Two problems with that idea: It'll make the box significantly heavier, and it will make the box significantly louder. I think I'd definitely prefer to just run a line to the back of the computer.

Just add a rheostat
Sweet, looks great!

Thanks so much for the response! I'd love to hear other opinions, too!

[atomic ferret]

If you use a heater core you need high CFM fans because of the density of the fins. I put together a loop using a heater core a month ago using a '77 Bonneville. I made my own shroud out of a plastic box and slapped on two Panaflo 114CFM fans. Yes, they are loud when they are at full speed, but they are quiet when undervolted and still keep my cpu chilly. If you want silence, use a Thermochill PA120.3 or a Swiftech 320 if you want something cheaper. The reason I used a heater core was because it was only $20 and there was a lot of DIY stuff, like attaching barbs, creating a shroud, and creating a mounting system. If you want to make a shroud of out metal, it will be a little tougher. You said you want to make the enclosure out of aluminum. It's very tough to solder aluminum and it would probably be a waste of time. You could learn how to weld, but that's a bigger project. Instead, you could use Aluminum and instead use tubing and bolt it all together, or you could use Plexiglass and glue it or screw it together.

[StellaTerra]

If you use a heater core you need high CFM fans because of the density of the fins. I put together a loop using a heater core a month ago using a '77 Bonneville. I made my own shroud out of a plastic box and slapped on two Panaflo 114CFM fans. Yes, they are loud when they are at full speed, but they are quiet when undervolted and still keep my cpu chilly. If you want silence, use a Thermochill PA120.3 or a Swiftech 320 if you want something cheaper. The reason I used a heater core was because it was only $20 and there was a lot of DIY stuff, like attaching barbs, creating a shroud, and creating a mounting system. If you want to make a shroud of out metal, it will be a little tougher. You said you want to make the enclosure out of aluminum. It's very tough to solder aluminum and it would probably be a waste of time. You could learn how to weld, but that's a bigger project. Instead, you could use Aluminum and instead use tubing and bolt it all together, or you could use Plexiglass and glue it or screw it together.

Like I said, silence is number one, so I guess it's the heater core that will have to go. Looking at the PA120.3 and the Swiftech 320, I notice they're both 3 fan, and they're both HUGE. I'm thinking it might start being a problem of portability. Also, both models have their input/output on the front, which is somewhat inconvenient for my design. Thoughts?
Are there any two by 120 mm radiators with a high enough fin density to make the nexus fans usable? Regarding the case, yeah, I'm not sure I'm going to be able to get access to welding equipment, so I guess it's time for plan "B". I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by "tubing", and are there any instructional sites on how to bolt aluminum together? Any examples you can point to of this sort of design? I love the idea of a plexiglass case, though. If I were to glue it together, what tools would I need? How do I cut plexiglass? Do I need to cut some kind of tongue-and-groove design for that? Obviously screwing sounds easiest, but I'm worried about crack and unsightly screws in the box. Also, would it be possible to make a portion of such a box air-tight so that I can use it as a reservoir? If you look at my original diagram, it would fit great into my design to have it built in instead of removable. Again, are there any online examples of this I could see?

To everyone:
It seems like the DDC (especially Petra's modified one) is a really good idea. I'm going to assume from everyone's silence on the matter that the water blocks are good. That leaves just the radiator, the T versus closed-loop versus reservoir, and the design of the box itself.
With regards to the fill/bleed problem, the DDC is not submersible, so it's the T or the reservoir. So far, it seems y'all are in favor of the t-line from what I've gleaned here and from other posts, but I've read other places the reservoirs don't significantly impact performance, but make it much easier for the first time builder to burp the system. Even the stickied "The Basics" thread on this forum a reservoir for the first time builder, so I'm wondering what the deal is an why I'd choose either.
On a side note, I love the rheostat thing, where can I buy one commercially that will support the amount of output I'd need for all two/three 120 mm fans?

Thank you ever so kindly.
With love and respect,
Stella-Terra

[jr1]

the reosthat "thing" ( fancontroller ) you can get in more or less every online store
something like this here one i think would handle most fans http://www.jab-tech.com/Sunbeam-5-1-4-Rheobus-Kit-BLACK-pr-2530.html

for a reservoar i can recomend this here one http://www.jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCRES-Micro-pr-3093.html
i'm using 2 of them myselve and am 100% happy with them

if your going for a pa 120.2 or 120.3 you can find the mesurments for a shroud here http://www.thermochill.com/guides/HE1202Shroud.pdf that is for a 120.2 and for the 120.3 here http://www.thermochill.com/guides/HE1203Shroud.pdf
if you print that one and bring it to a carpenter or some like that and tell him you want a box for the rad and give him the drawing for the rad you choose and tell him to use only the part of it where the fans are attatched he will be able to make a box for it you can easily mount the rad and fans in
or to someone that is working with metal if that's preferred

and as last
good luck

[turbomursu]

I started my first WC project a few weeks ago. on top of the above advice i'd like to say this. don't buy anything unless you really know it's absolutely nessecary. I bought aluminium stuff just to find out that it corrodes with copper (i knew that, but of course i forgot it while i was overwhelmed with all the neat stuff at the scrapyard). most blocks are made of copper. don't buy barbs and hrouds or anything before you know what kind of threads your system has. then get the tubing that fits your parts. tubing size is not much of a worry (see the sticky).

I managed to waste about 50e for "cool" stuff i then didn't need. or maybe i can use them on another projects. we'll see....

[metloaf]

I have always used reservoirs since I started water cooling and liked that configuration better for some reason. Bleeding the line seemed a lot easier but thats mainly personal preference. I also looked at your diagram and the fan configuration seems to be a "pulling only" setup. There are many ways to make that more efficient and depending on the load on it may work out the way you have it. Direct airflow onto the radiator fins make it a lot more efficient as far as cooling is concerned. Most of us have our fans set up that way for that reason. :beer:

[billb]

My top priority is silence, so slow silent fans are ideal for me. I'm not really looking to yank out every degree I can.
Priorities:
1. Silence
2. Home made (over store bough)
3. Low Maintenance
4. Portability
5. Cooling performance
Just because you want to use low CFM (quiet) fans has nothing t do with whether putting them on a a 2 x 120 rad will supply enough cooling to keep your system from overheating.

You can look at it this way:
All rads remove about the same amount of heat per volume of air flowing through then. Note, that's through then. The amounf of air going through a rad is not just dependant on the CFM rating of that fan used. Some rads (the most efficient ones) have close fin spacing and require high air pressure (again, see P-Q curve) to get an adequate air flow through the rad.. Just because you have a 37 CFM fan doesn'r nean that 37 CFM is going to go through the rad. As opposed to water flow, where there are dimminishing returns with increased flow rate, rads always benefit greatly from increased air flow.

Using low CFM fans will require a lot of them (and correspondingly, a lot of rad face) to accomplish adequate, quiet cooling.

You should be looking a rad/fan testing reults. Martin has done a lot of that work.

Have a look at this thread (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=579656)