Will I notice a difference to upgrade my soundcard

[Dapman02]

I have been wanting to upgrade my sound card from a Audigy SE to an Extreme Gamer X-fi. These are my speakers (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121006) Will I notice a difference.

[newbski]

Since you're current soundcard supports 7.1 and the speakers are 5.1 not much IMO.

Really depends on what you do with the card. Playing games and DVD's I think you're pretty much fine.

[supra]

its not all about supporting 7.1 or not, if you found one of the better x-fi cards, or the auzentech prelude especially, you'll have noticeably better sound

http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-fi_prelude.php

[Dapman02]

Yea, I'm looking for more clairity, not more speakers. I'm not sure if the speakers are clear enough to tell the difference. I hear X-fi is amazing, does crysis support it? I am using this card primarily for gaming, and I want Fallout to sound it's best.
Also, just to clarify, I should be able to hear a difference in sound right?

[Trap05]

I doubt you will notice much if any difference with the speakers you have.

[repo man11]

My P5Q Pro does not work with my Philips PSC 706, which I've been happy with since I bought it in September 2001. I'm interested in a fairly high end card to replace it with, though I'm not interested in Creative products. The Auzentech looks good, does any one else have any suggestions?

[Trap05]

The Auzentech drivers get updated often. I love mine and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone.

[gamefan]

I have a X-Fi Extreme Gamer and Crysis and just got the 5.1 Logitech 5500D speakers. I think the X-RAM version of this card is the only one that does hardware decoding of DD and DTS, etc. Meaning if you plan on watching movies in surround through the pc you will have to use a version of Cyberlink PowerDVD, and the included download version does not enable it, I don't think. I have the included download Cyberlink PowerDVD version and have yet to know if I can even use the DD or DTS. Soundblaster has once agian made it look like you'll get it, but then rip you off in the end. I have a standalone DVD connected to my TV so I'm not concerned anyway, and the 5500s do PLII, and the digital coax transmits DD or DTS to the 5500s. I have seen the 5500s say DD on the display, after I bought a dig coax cable, phew... And the 5500s do PLII for tv signals. Forget about that with the X-Fi Extreme Gamer, Sounbllaster, anybody? Are you kidding? Otherwise I'd be freaked! The Cyberlink website dl doc doesn't make it clear if the free version supports it, its all * in the RC bull****, but I think its drivers and you need to use PowerDVD to get the surround audio.

Other than that I think EAX is critical for games and SB is indespensible (or any other EAX card) just for this and yes there will be $100 worth of better sound overall, maybe.

Some games have an EAX checkbox in Sound Setup Options, and its night and day. Night and day. Afaik, you don't get that unless you have a SB, and better SBs do sound better better too.

If you confirm that this cluster**** of the regular X-Fi Extreme Gamer vs. the X-RAM version of the same card please come back and confirm it, for me at least. ie its not hardware; you need to use sw to decode surround; you need to watch all surround movies using Cyberlink PowerDVD; you have to pay extra for the upgraded version of the downloaded icluded sw to watch movies with DD &/or DTS regardless.

The X-RAM version is what, $25 more. The Cyberlink PowerDVD sw purchase is probably similar, and who needs it? You won't have any surround from your tv or vcr, even though its given to us!

I have not played Crysis since I got the Logitech speakers, but well I know at least the other speakers worked anyway. I could play a round or two and tell you what kinda sound options there are since I have the new speakers. I can't imagaine the PowerDVD situation affecting the multi-channel gaiming via DD and DTS decoding, or the EAX.

Having an EAX option checkbox (only SB) itself is a massive improvement afaik/r.

btw, Auzentech (eg rec'd Prelude) users, what gives wrt the DD and DTS decoding on that card: automatic (hardware)

[gamefan]

http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-fi_prelude.php

If you open this link and look 1/3 down at the ENTERTAINMENT MODE figure showing the software used included with my X-Fi eXtremeGamer the last few boxes are surround formats. If you can enlarge and see it they say DD, DTS, etc. I have downloaded the free to download Cyberlink PowerDVD version and I have NO SUCH BOXES - they aren't there! You are supposed to double click them and the options open. The doc is ambiguous, meaning if in doubt, buy it (the upgraded version) anyway. The version of Cyberlink - nothing to do with this shot, and no buttons - no surround format. HAHAHA. What?

Can you believe you have to think out of the box (the X-RAM version) to get the basic surround formats (DD and DTS) from SoundBlaster, this day and age. I can't believe that. A *** 5.1 surround format - think out of the box? After buying the best retail version anyway.

Comments? Why have I no (DD, DTS) boxes, anyone know?

What about an Auzentech model with DD and DTS decoding BY HARDWARE for users with 5.1 speakers, NOT 7.1 speakers, like me and the OP; e.g 5500s? I mean at least avialable. And does this tie surround to a specific movie player software? What about decoding TV surround audio signals via input on the rear of the (Auzentech _model) soundcard?

i notice this link has all kinds of takl about surround audio. So does the Soundblaster site! I got ****. Anybody?

[supra]

not sure why you don't have any of those options gamefan, on my x-fi xtrememusic I have both DTS and DD options available

with a little searching around the creative website comparing my x-fi card to your's, it appears they neutered most of the x-fi line compared to its original launch

http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=10571

from their own documentation, it states that the xtrememusic has hardware dts-es 6.1 and dd-ex 6.1 support, not software support as yours does (the xtrememusic card was ~$130, which might explain the added features)

the auzentech cards are based more on the old xtrememusic card then they are the newer stripped down versions, I know my physical board is the size of the auzentech, which again, is a good bit larger then the gamer card.

now having modded my card with a similar opamp configuration to the auzentech (along with bypassing the decoupling capacitors and upgrading the power supply capacitors) it sounds much better then it did stock.

I hope that answers your questions gamefan (your kinda s.o.l it looks like)

back to the op, the auzentech should certainly be your choice over the current run of creative cards, I really didn't realize how bad the new batch of cards had been neutered compared to the original ones. and on top of that, the higher end components on the auzentech cards make a noticeable improvement on the sound quality

[gamefan]

supra, you supplied this link above,
http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-fi_prelude.php

Does it not state that surround decoding will be/is available after driver downloads? Is that not the same thing as not hardware? Or is needing hardware drivers different than needing the software altogether? Is it in any way not real hardware, ie other souncards could be all hardware?

Also wrt this 7.1 card, what happens to those who have or will have 5.1 speakers?

The thing I like about my 5500s is that I have them do surround (DD and DTS via standalone dvd digital coax, and PLII movie via tv/vcr tuner RCA to 3.5mm) when the pooter if off. In addition to PLII music mode for music too, stereo, STEREOx2, and 6-channel direct 3x 3.5mm form soundcard - EAX:I'm gonna load Crysis, not done since got the 5500s, to see all sounds good w/o having real DD and DTS capability)

btw in order to get DD and DTS to pass THROUGH orig at the dvd from my soundcard through to the 5500 input (to use the 5500s DD and DTS decoding) do I need:

i)Any other connection inside the pooter like a digital connection straight from the dvd to the soundcard, cuz I only have the ATA/DMA IDE (I know some are SATA etc)

ii)To use a digital coax or digital optical cable only from the rear of the soundcard to the input of the 5500s, cuz I always have the (only) 3x3.5mm input on the 5500s already covered by cables from the soundcard. -hence also the 7.1 type soundcard question.

the 5500s have these inputs:
digital coax (used: standalone dvd)
digital optical (not used: only connection open; soundcard for passthrough, if poss?)
3 x 3.5mm (used:soundcard, FRCS, the standard for 5.1 audio-level audio)
3.5mm (used: stereo mini-plug(walkman size to RCA cable) from vcr tuner)

I mentioned all the effects, now you also have all the inputs. Some effects have settings, eg: surround latency.

[wingman99]

From what I've seen hardware sound encoding for dolby digital is going away, does anyone know why I've been searching all over the net and cant find anything.

[supra]

gamefan, I'd have to look into it more to sort out if its truely hardware or software decoding, but the fact remains that full dd and dts decoding is done without the help of any additional programs like cyberlink.

as for a connections to the digital input of your 5500's, I'll take a look at what you can try when I get a chance later today

[gamefan]

I don't know how things work. Theres a post today leading to about a Flexjack. I would have figured that out eventually if I were to go that road, but as it is I'm more concerned about connection from my ATA dvd bay to the soundcard, cuz I have nothing but the ATA for everythng, and wonder if I could even get a digital signal out of my soundcard this way. I don't even think my GSA-H10N has a digital out on it..

This is getting ridiculous.

My solution was to buy, actually inherit a $50 dvd player, and I did buy the 5500s, so I'm covered. The home dvd player has digital out (directly in to the 5500s), and the 5500 a PLII decoder for a RCA to 3.5 from vcr to 5500 for vhs tape PL & tv surround. Plus I use the tv for picture, and don't need the pooter on. Same, probably less then buying the add-ons for this soundcard: I can't believe seeing what I see that they can get away with this. I was intent on buying the 5500s for sound quality anyway, the decoder wasn't the main reason - I didn't know I'd need it always, I have tv out on my vid card, though I guess it makes sense. If I had good std. 5.1 speakers I'd be loosing it. I'd be getting rid of a soundcard that needed me to rely on a software purchase to get surround audio - what happens with vhs or tv signals? dvd software comes with vid cards, mobos and dvd players, not to mention the free and even WMP, I mena what do you need - a full screen option? But to buy one again - I think its $50!, after this, and for what? God, does it not lead you to believe you are covered? I mean with this card, the entire software suite has disabled any hint of any surround sound options from everywhere - the standard suite - given with all the SB cards, where all the settings and options are - blanked out, completely, everywhere, like surround is for something completely different hardware product topic.

But these obstacles are bloody maddening.

[wingman99]

gamefan, I'd have to look into it more to sort out if its truely hardware or software decoding, but the fact remains that full dd and dts decoding is done without the help of any additional programs like cyberlink.

as for a connections to the digital input of your 5500's, I'll take a look at what you can try when I get a chance later todayCreative lies i just bought a Xtreme Fidelity audio for games,music&movies and it has no encoding capability at all, it's all software I'm retuning this peace of junk.:bang head

[wingman99]

Creative lies i just bought a Xtreme Fidelity audio for games,music&movies and it has no encoding capability at all, it's all software I'm retuning this peace of junk.:bang headAfter fully testing this thing, i think my Audigy 2 did better in games like bf2 to bad it's failing i get crackles, i did back to back test's

[Special7]

Creative lies i just bought a Xtreme Fidelity audio for games,music&movies and it has no encoding capability at all, it's all software I'm retuning this peace of junk.:bang head

You basically bought a Live card, that's not an X-Fi.

[wingman99]

After fully testing this thing, i think my Audigy 2 did better in games like bf2 to bad it's failing i get crackles, i did back to back test's

Creative lies i just bought a Xtreme Fidelity audio for games,music&movies and it has no encoding capability at all, it's all software I'm retuning this peace of junk.:bang head

Here is a link to the false advertisement. http://us.creative.com/local/1/promo/findyoursb/gaming.asp

You basically bought a Live card, that's not an X-Fi.I'm thinking it's X-Fi pic below

Also the box said you can get a free software download DTS DD decoder from power DVD that was lie you have to pay for it.

[gamefan]

thats basically the box I got, and the extremegamer page,

http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=209&subcategory=669&product=15853

goes to great lengths to tell you you will have DD and DTS.

I downloaded the Cyberlink DVD software and I have yet to see DD or DTS anywhere. The Cyberlink documentation is so ambiguous you will be dying to buy the upgrade full version, $50, just so you don't have to re-read it again.

The software that runs in 3 modes, games, entertainment, and audio creation has click to open icons in blue in the bottom of the simulated screen of the virtual control component depending on type selected. Not with this card ever will you have DD &/or DTS &/or any surround format icons, and I dunno how to watch dvds with these surround audio formats: looks like it will be using Cyberlink PowerDVD only, and this card won't be Dolby Digital Live, which afaik is needed to watch tv in surround 5(.1) physically spkrs. See the soundcard compare link above, (check this at dolby.com, Technology Overview).

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/tech_overview.html

Ya, I think this, if true, is a little deceptive (*^!?-*,). In the last soundcard box I bought, a Live5.1, the same thing happened, and it wasn't until years later I realised that the several full games I was supposed to recieve didn't work because Ithey were never full games, they were demos, and I was supposed to complain to get em. It does say "....via download software", but doesn't say "only not used elsewhere" OR "not in this free version; you have to buy it to use it". I'm not 100% on this last point, anybody: codecs, CLMEI2x, DPL2, NEO, what? After installing the free downloadable Cyberlink PowerDVD software theres a new program group (in my Vista HP32 under All Programs, called Media Center, Cyberlink Settings, that adjusts A/V config but I don't see DD or DTS specifically, just varying degrees of CRUDD. However I haven't re-rented a DD dvd since I found these setup program(s) setup progrma(s), but again I see no DD in the setup! I rented a DD disk after I installed it and don't think it was the correct DD physically 5(.1) SS. If its the case theres no DD or DTS, then this is blatant BULL*** on the part of Soundblaster!! And I think that statement could/should be extended to include the words "yet again" and soon "naturally". Thats why I'm not 100% yet, anyone else 100% yet? I CAN'T BELIEVE I HAVE TO KEEP ASKING FOR CONFIMATION (or even feelings on the topic).

btw I'm happy with the sound for games and for mp3s. The X-RAM would be better for cpu usage, but for the right things, no need to be concerned (at all). $100 for a game and music card, $200 to add h/w movies - I use a home dvd player and 5500s (or deceiver w/ speaker amps) for movies ANYWAY, and I think EVERYONE should too, even if your pooter is connected to your tv and speakers. For the money saved from here to the champion card, &/or PowerDVD s/w I'd divert to home dvd and receiver & or 5500 speakers ANYWAYS. For the number of times I watch dvds I have a $50 home dvd player, fine. I have also had numerous other video disk machines worth several thousand, and audio to go with it. But now I'm using 5500s. Different? Duh: ya. IOW, I'm as happy as can be, all things considered. However thats for my needs.

The only reason I have this card is because the last one I bought, the Live5.1Gamer doesn't even work in Vista. Nobodys does. Now the direct replacement card I just bought, ExtremeGamer doesn't even work in Vista. Nobodys does. Its fine, the other way is better, and all is well.

[wingman99]

The only reason I have this card is because the last one I bought, the Live5.1Gamer doesn't even work in Vista. Nobodys does. Now the direct replacement card I just bought, ExtremeGamer doesn't even work in Vista. Nobodys does. Its fine, the other way is better, and all is well.

Just wondering what your meaning is other way is better:confused:


I have two pc's with 5.1 sound nothing else just tv a $ 20.00 dvd player.

And the only reason i got this card was my Audigy 2 went bad and it had a DD encoder on it.

Bf2 did not really sound much better on X-fi, it went from EAX 3.0+4.0 to X-FI 5.0

Quote:
EAX 3.0: 'Smoothing' between 3D audio environments, Direct access to all reverb parameters, Environmental Panning, New reverb engine, 64 simultaneous voices, Beginning of the AdvancedHD Designation from new reverb engine

EAX 4.0: Real-time hardware effects, Multiple simultaneous environments, Flange, echo, distortion, and ring modulation effects

EAX 5.0: 128 simultaneous voices, EAX Voice (processing of microphone input signal), EAX PurePath (EAX Sound effects can originate from one speaker only), Environment FlexiFX (four available effects slots per channel), EAX MacroFX (realistic positional effects at close range), Environment Occlusion (sound from adjacent environments can pass through walls).

So im going with my on board sound after testing and updating drivers it' sounds real good not as good with BF2 with creative also the 3D postioning seems to be so close it's a wash.

I don't like creative's deception with this card i will try again with something new in the future.

[gamefan]

The other way being not using the pc when watching movies. You need a standalone home dvd player. To do this if you have pc spkrs with amps built in you are out of luck, unless you have a standalone seperate decoder. But if you have a deceiver with seperate home speakers, or the 5500 speakers you're good.

I can't find DD or DTS, even after having downloaded the PowerDVD, meaning they might as well have left off all the details about movies in all the press about this card, cuz thats like buying a microwave and getting a toaster; well not really, a cookie sheet. But there is the proprietary stuff for surround sound. The last resort. Apples and oranges. You may get a physical 5(.1) sound in a proprietary version of "surround sound". Curiously, I don't know if DPLIIx kicks in (a down-mix; anybody?)- thats pretty good - but definitely not as advertised.

On the other hand, it has invested in a little "Dolby" - it does have Dolby Pro Logic II x, which is the first thing you'd want to have to create surround sound from a stereo signal (a signal that had no initial surround sound intentions, but you'd really like it; like for TV channels) , its not proprietary as such, its a "Dolby standard" which is always all you want/need. Good for some sources. Unfortunatley I think in order to use this for a t v signal the card needs "Dolby Digital Live", due to a lag or seem other sort of code-decode processing problems. But this card is not "Dolby Digital Live" (you can't do "live" e.g. tv channels in surround, meaning any non-standard standard you do get is from a dvd (possibly a file too) only; and one with a better standard on it, too, which you don't get: DD(9/10) or DTS(1/10).

So so ridiculous.

[wingman99]

The other way being not using the pc when watching movies. You need a standalone home dvd player. To do this if you have pc spkrs with amps built in you are out of luck, unless you have a standalone seperate decoder. But if you have a deceiver with seperate home speakers, or the 5500 speakers you're good.

I can't find DD or DTS, even after having downloaded the PowerDVD, meaning they might as well have left off all the details about movies in all the press about this card, cuz thats like buying a microwave and getting a toaster; well not really, a cookie sheet. But there is the proprietary stuff for surround sound. The last resort. Apples and oranges. You may get a physical 5(.1) sound in a proprietary version of "surround sound". Curiously, I don't know if DPLIIx kicks in (a down-mix; anybody?)- thats pretty good - but definitely not as advertised.

On the other hand, it has invested in a little "Dolby" - it does have Dolby Pro Logic II x, which is the first thing you'd want to have to create surround sound from a stereo signal (a signal that had no initial surround sound intentions, but you'd really like it; like for TV channels) , its not proprietary as such, its a "Dolby standard" which is always all you want/need. Good for some sources. Unfortunatley I think in order to use this for a t v signal the card needs "Dolby Digital Live", due to a lag or seem other sort of code-decode processing problems. But this card is not "Dolby Digital Live" (you can't do "live" e.g. tv channels in surround, meaning any non-standard standard you do get is from a dvd (possibly a file too) only; and one with a better standard on it, too, which you don't get: DD(9/10) or DTS(1/10).

So so ridiculous.I just have a small CRT TV i do all my movie watching on my pc and i do have a DD in my 5.1 Boston BA7500 but it's not optical so I'm screwed, my system movies sounded so good with Adugy 2 encoding on board with EX so i either get optical to coax converter and optical cables or pay for software DD OR DTS because i have the old power DVD xp. The X-FI software DVD update told me i cant download the new player and i have to update the old player my self and the old player does not have doby digital EX that i was use to, i tried deleting my player but that did not work i think i would have to format my hard drive.

So I'm wondering if Creative thinks software is so great they can keep there card for now also my new motherboard onboard sound has S/PDIF coax and i will just save some money for now and go without doby digital up mix EX and just use the external DD 5.1 what I should do is just get another Adugy 2 but i just hate buying old tech, but creative has ****ed me off for now.

This afternoon i have been playing games on my pc and sampling some movies with onboard sound. The sound is good, so long as you play games like BF2 and UT3 in software mode so you get all the sounds and voices and reverb and occlusions like X-Fi, i have a new pc dual core so cpu power is not a problem.

My codec is ALC888 ALL DAC supports 44.1k/48k/96k/192kHz sample rate
High-performance DACs with 97dB SNR (A-Weighting
Ten DAC channels support 16/20/24-bit PCM format for 7.1+2 sound
So thats not to bad with running some of my games in software mode.

[RaV3N]

If your card is not X-fi and you buy an X-fi card you will notice a difference in games and movies.

[Mr.Guvernment]

i would be contacting Creative and Cyberlink about this and then go to the better business Bureau as they are flat our LYING on their box, false advertising, if they don't give it to you for free!

[gamefan]

it must be a typo

[wingman99]

it must be a typoIt's not a typo.:temper: I Contacted both and there blaming each other i contacted better business burro and they said they cant help, i have to sue them in civil court for false advertizing the could be some money in this if i can fine a layer who would take them on pro bono, yea when hell freezes over.

See where the problem is downloading is free from power DVD site.


By the way if you don't have the hardware encoder for DVD movies or the software encoder you won't have your sub channel (.1) I tested with a certified THX optimizer.

[wingman99]

If your card is not X-fi and you buy an X-fi card you will notice a difference in games and movies. I've been testing games and movies for two weeks With X-FI if you have a new dual core cpu and the new codec on your bard you won't Be able to tell the difference if you Run the new games like bf2 in high software,EAX mode using the cpu also

My codec is ALC888 ALL DAC supports 44.1k/48k/96k/192kHz sample rate
High-performance DACs with 97dB SNR (A-Weighting
Ten DAC channels support 16/20/24-bit PCM format for 7.1+2 sound
So that's not to bad with running some of my games in software mode.


If you use the on board hardware mode for newer games yes ALC888 suck.

I'm still testing, going back and forth on all games and also keeping a log on sound quality and sound in each game with both solutions frankly it's so hard i cant' tell, the sound is the same with the onboard in software mode, what i'm still trying to find out if that 3d movement is a better solution or not, it's vary in depth process because i cant tell yet, I'm just trying to find a point where i say this X-FI is worth it when the price drops to $50.




The DVD playing is Exactly the same as on board, I tested with high quality head phones and speakers, to make the test fair, I tested both solutions with 5 channels because creative extreme gamer X-FI does not come with 5.1 for DVD, none of the new ones have it.:(

[Mr.Guvernment]

send and email to both companies, in the same email, find EVERY email address you can for each company and spam them with the email.

be very proffesional about it, also CC the BBS, i think it is BS they cant help....

any lawyer with basic law knowledge could take this case and win, likely out of courty settlement, find a lawyer, or talk to family and friends see if they know anyone.. all you would need is a basic letter from a lawyer stating what they are doing wrong.. i am sure either company in the end will either

1. give you a free download link
2. send you a retail disk or something


but do something on this if you got time, stop letting large companies push us around!

[gamefan]

It may have been my fault before. But I do not believe this is not under their control. In total I have been screwed for games by SB too, I think (not all 10 SBs fault), that's a drag, and have never seen a movie (or TV channel-90% of time: Dolby Digital Live, most expensive, best, minimum, next time I think).

I just played the Crystal Skull and had no center channel speaker with any 6 speaker settings. Not even a twangy pos non-std.-format simulated 5(.1) setting (DDL!?, lol)! The best was a 2 speaker setting. or a seperate wiring for the normal tv sound to act as center (prob. need to double number of switchboxes).

For DD movies ALL you need is a DD setting, which it doesn't have. Everythng else, including all of the hype advertising about the extra experience you'll get if ypu buy this product with *&^5 in this case is to deflect the fact you don't have it, in all other cases it HAS to work around the standard to be an improvement anyways (EQ, delays, etc., but never off the standard. There is no substitute. I couldn't even find a setting that worked for 5(.1), again a 2 spkr was it.

The dvd was awesome in my home dvd player w/ dig coax out to my 5500s. On DD. Period. 6 spkrs (5.1). On my tv, with the pooter OFF. Yes I do have a tv out vid card too. But a $10 used dvd w/ dig out is fine for <5% of time.

The sound for games (oooh, EAX) and music (mp3, whatever) is still fine on this card, but the X-RAM of the other cards is a bonus for the cpu during games also.

If its not just me and I'm just not seeing the setting or loading the right codec or something, then this is a fine (another) example of money grubbing total crap. I can't believe they'd lead in people into a dead end blind corner NO WAY OUT GO BACK NOW YOU WILL REGRET IT. I wonder how many cards are advertised like this? I guess the bean counters made what ten, fifty million worldwide, sucking people in? Actually you can buy the full s/w version for what, $50. But they wouldn't, they'd probably BUY THE RIGHT CARD. And 90% of people might be looking for a card with, Dolby Digital Live, which it isn't, about 90% of the time, anyway. AGAIN. What a pain (for some people), these standards, aren't they.