God forsaken XP networking

[Freezer7Pro]

I'm stumped, this just isn't making any sense.

My media computer, as well as one of my folding rigs, running XP Pro just dissapeared from the network one day. they can't ping, it can't recieve/respond to pings, see shared folders or anything but access the internet, which is working more than fine.

I get the folder back online after running the Set-up-a-network guide about ten times, moving it to non-existant workgroups and changing it's name to many things, as well as turning on/off file sharing. My media rig, however, stays down no matter what. It can ping google, but if I try to ping either my laptop, folding1 or my gaming rig, it gets an insta-hostname invalid. Everything works just fine between those three, though.

Help! :bang head

[ppe1700]

have you tried pinging by IP instead of hostname?
what is your dns server? what is your ip config's?

have you ensured there is no firewall on any of your lan machines?

[Freezer7Pro]

have you tried pinging by IP instead of hostname?
what is your dns server? what is your ip config's?

have you ensured there is no firewall on any of your lan machines?

Pinging IP works fine. DNS server, no idea. My router has been f'cked up for a year now. I'm running everything through a 24-port switch, though, with the modem/router only acting as a gateway. All computers run the Windows firewall. IPconfig:

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb8/Freezer7Pro/ipconfig.png

I'm a bit of a networking noob :/

[ppe1700]

your pc has an internet ip.. what does ip does the other pc your trying to connect to have?
does it have an internet ip like the one above? do you have more than 1 public ip?

p,s, pls see your PM box quick

[ppe1700]

ah i think u are pinging the pc.. lol

does any of the pc's have windows firewall turned on? i think they should anyway, but you will need to allow the other pc through the firewall on the correct cif's ports i think.

not sure why it was working and now it isnt if nothing has changed though :/

can you do a tracert to 7x.x.x.31 and post back? i cant ping it

[Freezer7Pro]

ah i think u are pinging the pc.. lol

does any of the pc's have windows firewall turned on? i think they should anyway, but you will need to allow the other pc through the firewall on the correct cif's ports i think.

not sure why it was working and now it isnt if nothing has changed though :/

can you do a tracert to 7x.x.x.31 and post back? i cant ping it
The ipconfig is below.

Yes, all have the win firewall turned on.

As for the IP stuff, my modem/router is busted, and I'm only recieving IPs from my ISP, they don't seem to get any internal IPs at all :/

[ppe1700]

yea i cant ping x.x.x.31
may be its firewall is blocking your other pc from getting to it.

its very nice of your isp to ive you those ip's!!

[Freezer7Pro]

yea i cant ping x.x.x.31
may be its firewall is blocking your other pc from getting to it.

its very nice of your isp to ive you those ip's!!
Nah, it's very nice of my router. I'm the only guy here with static IPs, and I'd do anything to get rid of them. They're a pain for anything but servers, and even then there's dyDNS.

[cw823]

The ipconfig is below.

Yes, all have the win firewall turned on.

As for the IP stuff, my modem/router is busted, and I'm only recieving IPs from my ISP, they don't seem to get any internal IPs at all :/

Yeah, I'm confused. You have no router, but you expect something? to route your internet traffic? You have no DNS server, so of course you cannot ping another device by it's hostname.

I guess you can ping by IP, given the odd nature of your current setup. Just find an old PC and setup a smoothwall or another linux based router/firewall.

[ppe1700]

Nah, it's very nice of my router. I'm the only guy here with static IPs, and I'd do anything to get rid of them. They're a pain for anything but servers, and even then there's dyDNS.

the router isnt or rather shouldnt be issuing those IP's - i expect your ISP to issue those IPs.
also, they are fully routable ip's so if it is the isp issuing them, then i should be able to ping .31 which i cannot.. so i suspect firewall blocking it - as you have said there is a firewall on .31.

[ppe1700]

Yeah, I'm confused. You have no router, but you expect something? to route your internet traffic? You have no DNS server, so of course you cannot ping another device by it's hostname.

I guess you can ping by IP, given the odd nature of your current setup. Just find an old PC and setup a smoothwall or another linux based router/firewall.

the isp have routers - i would expect the isp to route destination .31 packets back down the same line his other machine is connected to.
his router at his home is somehow only bridging his LAN to his ISP.

he has not done ipconfig /all so it wont show his dns servers - and it should be the dns of whatever the isp has given out.

its a very strange set up lol

[cw823]

the isp have routers - i would expect the isp to route destination .31 packets back down the same line his other machine is connected to.
his router at his home is somehow only bridging his LAN to his ISP.

he has not done ipconfig /all so it wont show his dns servers - and it should be the dns of whatever the isp has given out.

its a very strange set up lol

The lack of DNS is what gets me. I mean, his ISP isn't going to be able to resolve any local PC names. I still say a cheap old linux firewall would do alot to fix the problem, AND it's one more PC to mess around with! It's win win! :D

[ppe1700]

The lack of DNS is what gets me. I mean, his ISP isn't going to be able to resolve any local PC names. I still say a cheap old linux firewall would do alot to fix the problem, AND it's one more PC to mess around with! It's win win! :D

OOPS yea i missed that! :bang head

if he connects via ip though, this should work im thinkin..

[Freezer7Pro]

Yeah, I'm confused. You have no router, but you expect something? to route your internet traffic? You have no DNS server, so of course you cannot ping another device by it's hostname.

I guess you can ping by IP, given the odd nature of your current setup. Just find an old PC and setup a smoothwall or another linux based router/firewall.
The thing is, everything works perfectly fine, except for that one computer. I can ping all hostnames but that one. Everything has worked 100% fine up until now. And the reason that you can't ping .31 is that that's my laptop, and I'm gone 10h a day ;) Try .24.130 or .22.100 instead, those are online 24/7.

And IPconfig /all:

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb8/Freezer7Pro/ipconfig2.png

[whiteemcee]

This is very interesting It would certainly appear to me he is picking up DHCP from his ISP and using there DNS Servers and default gateway and if this is indeed the case i'm not sure ANYWAY he could ping using hostname short of a hosts file? Am I missing something here? I would agree with the above use an old box to build a smoothwall to segregate your internal network from the Internet. I hate putting boxes directly Internet facing.

[ppe1700]

if i were you, i would briefly turn off the firewall on the pc your trying to get the files from.
but remeber as soon as you do this, you leave yourself open to EVERYTHING on the net.

you could just fix your router (it is a router right?)
if its just a bridge, buy a router, and then you can do whatever you like inside your lan!

whiteemcee, he is picking up dhcp from his isp. he would have to use their def.gateway in this case.
really, his isp shouldnt allow this, as at the end of the day the isp pay for certain bunch of IP's and usually, unless you specify your requirements then the isp will only allow one per customer.

internet facing boxes are GREAT for internet boxes ONLY.. eg. game servers, the xbox, web servers... BUT these units could have a internet IP like above, but they are 99% of the time ALWAYS behind a firewall..

freezer7pro: you can do two things here, either buy a router/modem (your using adsl right?) to replace your current 'bridge'
or
buy an ethernet router to accept the internet IP currently issued to your pc's, and then plug all of your devices into the switch side of that.
that way, if you did want stuff directly on the internet, then you could plug these into the bridge, and keep your private lan seperate from the word wide web!

[ppe1700]

im still tryin to think why it was WORKING but now isnt... i can only think of the pc your trying to get stuff from being blocked by a firewall.. and i think this would mean a software firewall like windows firewall..

since both pc's are in the same subnet, then this RULES out either of them talking to their gateway to lookup the mac address to then talk to each other...

freezer, can you use command prompt and do:
arp -a
do this on both machines, and post back..
also, do ipconfig /all on the same machines and post back,

i wonder if that machine's ARP entry is wrong for the other machine, and thats why it cant talk to you but can use the internet.

[Freezer7Pro]

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb8/Freezer7Pro/arpa.png

[ppe1700]

what im trying to do, is see if the arp entry on each machine matches the mac address of the other machine in question :D

[ppe1700]

there you go. there is your problem.

freezer, can you see in your above pictures that the .216 mac address, is different from what is shown in the arp -a.
i will try to edit the pictures to make this more obvious.

[ppe1700]

here you go, hope this makes sense.

[ppe1700]

i can also see that the mac address is the same as your gateway's mac, which is a cisco device. (which is to be expected since your gateway gets all traffic unless there is a route to another network otherwise)
so, god knows where this packet is ending up... let me think

can you do a tracert from command prompt to .216 and post the output ?

[ppe1700]

when a device trys to connect to another device that it doesnt have a mac address for, and its on the SAME network as it, then it broadcasts on that nework looking for it...

it seems your gateway has responed before the pc, so therefore this is why the mac address is wrong.
you could try clearing the arp and seeing if a new lookup returns better results.

i dont know what that cisco router is doing (apart from proxy arp). it might have access controlled so that it doesnt route traffic back down the same connection (therefore stopping its customers from connecting directly to each other)

this is fun though :)

[ppe1700]

sorry the apparent spamming of the thread, its my train of thought..

[Freezer7Pro]

How do I clear the arp?

[ppe1700]

God knows... You will have to google.
I would have thought a reboot would have done it worse case. But there is bound to be a command in cmd you can use. I would look it up for you but I'm on a train ;p

[gangaskan]

i can also see that the mac address is the same as your gateway's mac, which is a cisco device. (which is to be expected since your gateway gets all traffic unless there is a route to another network otherwise)
so, god knows where this packet is ending up... let me think

can you do a tracert from command prompt to .216 and post the output ?

i'm confused ....



where is his cisco device? he had not mentioned anything in the post about such a peice of equipment :confused:

[ppe1700]

i'm confused ....



where is his cisco device? he had not mentioned anything in the post about such a peice of equipment :confused:

sorry may be i did not explain too good!

the cisco device is his default gateway (ISP equipment)

[ChronosKill]

i'm confused ....



where is his cisco device? he had not mentioned anything in the post about such a peice of equipment :confused:

Mac address. 00-09-44 is registered to Cisco.

[gangaskan]

Mac address. 00-09-44 is registered to Cisco.

well that explains it! :) thanks

[ppe1700]

EDIT::

hey, try this from command prompt;
C:\>netsh interface ip delete arpcache

then do
c:\> arp -a
and it should be empty.

then ping that machine your trying to get to,
if it replies or not do;
arp -a

and look at the mac of the arp, to the mac of the other machine.

[Freezer7Pro]

EDIT::

hey, try this from command prompt;
C:\>netsh interface ip delete arpcache

then do
c:\> arp -a
and it should be empty.

then ping that machine your trying to get to,
if it replies or not do;
arp -a

and look at the mac of the arp, to the mac of the other machine.
MACs aren't matching even after that :/

[ppe1700]

Can you do a trace route to that ip? Does the isp router route traffic back down to that pc?
Cos if it does then all should be well.

[Freezer7Pro]

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb8/Freezer7Pro/tracert.png

[ppe1700]

i dont think that the isp router is routing the traffic back to the pc.

how do you have everything connected to the network?

may be the only way to resolve this, is disconnect yourself from the internet, then clear the arp, and then try to ping .216.
this way, the only device that could possibly reply is .216
proxy arp = :(

[ppe1700]

im trying to find out if you can make a static entry in your arp table.
that way you can manually do each machine and they will talk directly, rather than going up to the internet providers router.

i dont even know if you can do it, so bear with me
http://frecklescassie.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/polar-bear-foot.jpg

[ppe1700]

found this recent article, and its the same circumstance as you:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.server.se curity&tid=c6a44d49-41ef-4b8a-96d4-6286b551f4a3&cat=en_US_ad4438d9-2fe2-46b3-8535-3e0077c1f052&lang=en&cr=US&sloc=&p=1

[ppe1700]

i think this should do it:


arp -s 79.x.x.x 00-aa-cc-11-c6-1F


instructions:
1. write down the ip address of pc1, and the mac address of pc1's nic by typing ipconfig /all from command prompt
2. do the same for pc2
3. on pc1 clear the arp, with the command netsh interface ip delete arpcache then use the above code in the box, but replace the ip address of pc2 and the mac address of also pc2
4. on pc2 clear the arp, with the command netsh interface ip delete arpcache then use the above code in the box, but replace the ip address of pc1 and the mac address of also pc1

this makes a static entry.
to delete it you can use netsh interface ip delete arpcache

i just tested this on my xp machine here.

please let me know your results :)

EDIT! just to make clear, DO NOT simply cut and paste that code, you need to replace the ip address and mac with your own as instructed in the instructions!

[ppe1700]

hey did you try this yet? :)

[ppe1700]

either it worked for u and your not sayin thanks,
or
you got bored :/

[AMD'er]

PPe1700...how did you know that his mac address was unique to that of a Cisco device...did you google the mac or are there certain mac addy's that are unique to a cisco product?

[gangaskan]

PPe1700...how did you know that his mac address was unique to that of a Cisco device...did you google the mac or are there certain mac addy's that are unique to a cisco product?

the first few octets on the mac address are company specific

[ppe1700]

When you have been working doing this sort of thing for a little while, and you need to trace equipment and all you have is an ip or mac, you learn of websites where you can copy and paste the mac address from the mac-address-table or arp table to find out if the equipment your trying to trace is actually the right one.

That's how I was able to determine that his gateway wasn't his router at his home, but in fact was his isp gateway therefore proving the router he has isn't actually a router at all (well not being used as one) as it is in bridged mode.

Sorry if I initially caused further confusion :(

[Freezer7Pro]

When you have been working doing this sort of thing for a little while, and you need to trace equipment and all you have is an ip or mac, you learn of websites where you can copy and paste the mac address from the mac-address-table or arp table to find out if the equipment your trying to trace is actually the right one.

That's how I was able to determine that his gateway wasn't his router at his home, but in fact was his isp gateway therefore proving the router he has isn't actually a router at all (well not being used as one) as it is in bridged mode.

Sorry if I initially caused further confusion :(

Oh, I just forgot about this thread. I'll try it as soon as I get home. :)

[ppe1700]

okies.

[Freezer7Pro]

It works on the XP machine, but the Vista machine (laptop) gives me "The ARP entry addition failed: 5"

:(

[ppe1700]

It works on the XP machine, but the Vista machine (laptop) gives me "The ARP entry addition failed: 5"

:(

on the vista machine, right click command prompt and then click "run as administrator"

i doubt the commands are different, but with vista you cannot even release and renew your own ip unless you open command prompt with administrator privilages EVEN if you HAVE admin rights!

let me know how it goes.. if that fails then may be the commands are different and i will look into it further.

[Freezer7Pro]

on the vista machine, right click command prompt and then click "run as administrator"

i doubt the commands are different, but with vista you cannot even release and renew your own ip unless you open command prompt with administrator privilages EVEN if you HAVE admin rights!

let me know how it goes.. if that fails then may be the commands are different and i will look into it further.
No luck with that either.

[ppe1700]

No luck with that either.

thats weird because i just checked on my vista laptop, and i can create entries just the same as i did on windows XP...

can you post a print screen of whats happening?

[ppe1700]

AH - i found your problem with a google ;)

you need to delete the arp table cache like i said in the post with the instructions.


ARP table questions

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have noticed some differences between XP and Vista regarding the ARP table:

1. It is impossible to add a new entry to the ARP table if there exists an
invalid entry already.
How to reproduce:
1. Ping free IP address, "ping 10.91.1.50", the ping times out.
2. Investigate the ARP table, "arp -a -v", there exists an invalid entry
at 10.91.1.50.
3. Try to add a new entry, "arp -s 10.91.1.50 11-22-33-44-55-66", gives
the error message "The ARP entry addition failed: 5". In XP it was possible
to add the new entry without getting this error message.

2. It is impossible to remove an invalid ARP entry directly after ping.
How to reproduce:
1. Ping free IP address, "ping 10.91.1.50", the ping times out.
2. Delete the invalid ARP entry created by the ping, "arp -d 10.91.1.50"
3. Investigate the ARP table, "arp -a -v". The ARP entry hasn't been
removed although there were no error message! One must wait 20-30 seconds
after the ping times-out before successfully removing the invalid entry. I


basically, delete the arp cache, and make sure its been deleted with the command

arp -a


once theyre all gone, then add your new entry!


be quick, before any of you network shares or anything on the vista pc does an arp for the mac address before you cut and paste your command!

[ppe1700]

a little more googling has found an alternative to your problem if my previous suggestion doesnt work;

Here is another way to solve your problem.

since arp -d and arp -s does not work propely under vista, even you have been under admin control.



instead of using arp command, you can use the netsh.exe to achieve the same things, ie binding you some Ip with Mac

doing the following step



step1: type cmd then ctrl + shift + enter to get admin privilege

step2: I am assuming that you want to bind you default gateway's ip with its mac. so just get the mac address of that,

normally it could be find under web entry eg http://192.168.0.1 or have a look at you device mannual.

step3: in the cmd windows, type

netsh -c "interface ipv4"

this command is going to enter the the configuration context under interface ipv4, then you will see the prompty become like 'netsh interface ipv4>'

step4: type --> set neighbors "Connection_name" "A.B.C.D" "XX-XX-XX-XX-XX-XX"

where Connection_name could be. eg, in english version of vista, it is normally be

"Local Area Connection"

A.B.C.D is the ip address that you want to bind

XX-XX-....-XX-XX is the MAC address associate with A.B.C.D

after you done this , you can check it wil arp -a, and you can see that it has be statically bind A.B.C.D to the XX-...-XX



actually, netsh is a rather powerful tools, it could be used to handle any network configuration in command line.

[AMD'er]

the first few octets on the mac address are company specific

When you have been working doing this sort of thing for a little while, and you need to trace equipment and all you have is an ip or mac, you learn of websites where you can copy and paste the mac address from the mac-address-table or arp table to find out if the equipment your trying to trace is actually the right one.

That's how I was able to determine that his gateway wasn't his router at his home, but in fact was his isp gateway therefore proving the router he has isn't actually a router at all (well not being used as one) as it is in bridged mode.

Sorry if I initially caused further confusion :(

Thanks to both of you guys...no confusion...but thats what I thought...that the first octets are company specific...

[ppe1700]

did u ever get to try this?

[Freezer7Pro]

did u ever get to try this?
I spent half a night trying what you said, with no luck.

I got it fixed now, by doing a series of things:

First, I took my half-dead router and gave it to a friend that connected to it through the factory interface to re-flash it with a firmware that actually works. Then, I just took the plunge and installed Vista on the media computer, as well as renaming it to SERVER.

Lo and behold, it's now working.

Big thanks for your time and help, though, ppe1700. If we would've kept on going for a little longer, maybe it would have started working. That's some massive troubleshooting you went through :)

[ppe1700]

at least you have it fixed now.

so i take it your router is actually a router now and you have an internal network :)

[Freezer7Pro]

at least you have it fixed now.

so i take it your router is actually a router now and you have an internal network :)

Yes, finally, after all these years.