48degrees w/ AMD 1700+ with Dragon Orb? Why?

[dmlow]

I am getting near 50 degrees celsius with a dragon orb 1 4900rpm fan and a 92 mm case fan. My case is roomy and fan can "breathe" well. Why is it still so high?:eh?:

[KFB]

First, you must make sure the Dorb is seated properly on the CPU die. Did you use Arctic Silver? Next, try removing the case cover to see if that lowers temps. If it does, then setting up your case with better airflow (more fans in better places) should help. What temp are you getting for the System?

[dmlow]

I am using Radio Shack heatsink compound. Is arctic silver that much better? It is cooler w/o case but I should think a non-o/c cpu would be fine with my current setup.

[KFB]

Arctic Silver would prolly help 2 to 4C (just a guess).
It depends on how you define "fine" - if your system works then that is "fine" isn't it?
Is that temp at idle or under some loading?

[rogerdugans]

I concur with the above:D
But also:

You can't entirely trust temps reported by a motherboard either- verifying the case temp is pretty easy and you can see how far off it is, just use an indoor/outdoor thermometer.

If temps do improve with the case side off then you will definitely benefit if you improve case cooling: if the air in your case is hot, then all the hsf does is cool the cpu with hot air. Case airflow is funny though: fan locations and speeds and flow patterns are an art and may take a lot of experimentation to get the best results!

The last opinion I have to express is: with temp sensors being iffy, two of the best indicators of whether your cpu is too hot or not are:

gently touch the heat sink with your fingers- if it is HOT than your temp is too high! If just warm, you may be fine.

Is the computer stable? If the pc is rock steady, then the temp may be ok- if you crash a lot or get a lot of errors than temp is one of the most likely causes (48c is about where mine start to go nuts!)

Good Luck.

[Sonny]

Originally posted by dmlow
I am getting near 50 degrees celsius with a dragon orb 1 4900rpm fan and a 92 mm case fan. My case is roomy and fan can "breathe" well. Why is it still so high?:eh?: What fan are you using to exhaust the hot air? The DOrb1 is all aluminum & with a really slow fan you just can't expect much from it.

[Yodums]

The suggestion have already been laid out and they're probably whats giving you the high degrees.

I do think it is correct as where my friends, friend had a Volcano 7 and his idle temperatures were near 44 because he had no airflow his cables were everywhere and his panels were on.

If you want to reduce the temperature big time probably by alot heres what you should do, order some Arctic Silver II and then buy case fans(I'd stay 120mm and you can mod it in your case) get four 120mm that push near 100cfm.

Two intake, at the bottom front.
Two exhaust at the back top.

And in the future you should add a blowhole, cut your IDE cables up, zip tie your PSU wires.

And possibly lap the Orb because Orb's are very poorly made.

That will just bring the temperatures down to maybe 43 degrees.

Is this full load or idle?

[Ebola]

orbs suck. you could lower your temps quite a bit with a glaciator II or an alpha pal 8045

[VegetaQ]

Hey the Orbs.. Ok so they do suck (see Mis Sig) But they work.

But the previous post is right. You could do much better with another hsk. You could get that coolermaster heatpip for like 30-35 bucks (Even though I dispise coolermaster.)

The Sk6 isint too bad of price. Neither is the Glacier. I myself is saving for the Swiftec msx462.

[dmlow]

I am not spending that freaking much on a HSF! Another OC site said the D-Orb actually beat the MC70 in their tests so I may switch to the 7000 rpm one they used. As far as the other HSF you all metioned the reviews showed them tied or behind the mc70. If you can put two-and-two together the D-Orb dont sound bad to me.

[VegetaQ]

Originally posted by dmlow
I am not spending that freaking much on a HSF! Another OC site said the D-Orb actually beat the MC70 in their tests so I may switch to the 7000 rpm one they used. As far as the other HSF you all metioned the reviews showed them tied or behind the mc70. If you can put two-and-two together the D-Orb dont sound bad to me.

Ok, ima smack you with a large rainbow trout.

First the Swiftec mcx462 (I shold know I JUST TODAY bought one) are around 65 bucks. And it and The alpha pal 8045 are the top performers in air cooled market. And grr... maybe even that dreaded coolermaster heatpipe.

If you want semi independant reviews on this take a look. I can only find the dragon orb 3 the supposedly "good" 7k rpm model (one I have) and still poop.

http://www.pcfusion.com.au/reviews/tt-orb3/page3.shtml
"The price tag is a bit high for considering the product doesn't preform that well"

The review performed at Overclocker cafe was compared to an inferior smaller

[VashTheStampede]

I learned my lesson about ThermalFake products (Also see sig), but last night placed an order for my Alpha PAL8045 with the Delta Super Screamer 80mm (68.5CFM I believe). Do not trust Orbs, the only one you can trust is Panasonic or Panaflo (Articooler?).. which ever one HP used/uses on RISC processors.

I don't suggest orbs for anything above 1.1GHz, not like I would suggest them in the first place, because cheaper and better HSFs are always the option when looking at ThermalFake.

~Vash~

[VegetaQ]

Originally posted by dmlow
I am not spending that freaking much on a HSF! Another OC site said the D-Orb actually beat the MC70 in their tests so I may switch to the 7000 rpm one they used. As far as the other HSF you all metioned the reviews showed them tied or behind the mc70. If you can put two-and-two together the D-Orb dont sound bad to me.
Sorry I submitted in the center of thought. give me a min

[VegetaQ]

Originally posted by dmlow
I am not spending that freaking much on a HSF! Another OC site said the D-Orb actually beat the MC70 in their tests so I may switch to the 7000 rpm one they used. As far as the other HSF you all metioned the reviews showed them tied or behind the mc70. If you can put two-and-two together the D-Orb dont sound bad to me.

Ok, Now I dont want to get heated and loose my objectivity BUT I take this as a bit of an insult "If you can put two-and-two together the D-Orb dont sound bad to me"

When I arrived at the forums I had asked MANY MANY Times (You can check my previous posts if you do not belive me) is the Dragon orb 3 a good heatsink or are theyre better. And almost everyone told me get something else. So it is NOT just me. Im only trying to give you solid advice for your benefit. And the price of the Dragon orb 3. The brand new super good 7k rpm model is 27 bucks. Theyre are so many better for a nominal increase in price.

Milenium Glacier II Really GOOD 33.75
Global win Cak II 38 Its ok 31.00
Thermalright SK6 (Good too) 33.00
ALPHA PAL8045U Super 47.00
Or The top dawg (In my humble opinion. Also probably since I just bought it)
Swiftech MCX462 Heatsink 69.00

Even so stated you can still get an affordable good performing heatsink for less than 35 bucks. But. If you do not belive me please ask other people in the forums. they will give you their advice as well.

As for me. The Dragon Orb 3 BEFORE overclocking was NOT sufficent for my system. See my sig I have plenty of fans in my system. Im done. I honestly did not mean to rant. I just wanted to get a part across.

[VashTheStampede]

I said this in one thread and I will say it again:

http://cluboverclocker.com/guides/top_ten.htm

They update weekly, or used to (Last update Dec 22nd), and pick 12 HSFs they tested on their Tbird 1.33 OC'ed to 1.4GHz. They get placed by going through four categories, price, performance/value, quality, and customer feedback.

For about the 6th-7th week in a row DO3 hasn't even placed in the 12 selected, but it's always sitting down there in the "Ones That Did Not Place" bin. This week's number 1 HSF according to those four categories is Swiftech MCX462 and just below that the Aruka-7228 (We reviewed that one here as well), and the Alpha PAL8045 with the Delta Super Screamer 80MM placed third.

~Vash~

[f155mph]

Um what is MC70??? Anyway I had a WBK38 and you can get it really cheap now for $20 if you can find them. I lapped the thing and the max temp I get is about 44c. Now I have the older style swifty 462 and I am doing 40c with the delta 68 until I fried my Tbird.

I know that not everyone have money to spend on hsf. But remember this "what you paid is what you get". So don't complain if you get crappy temps.

PS Now I got a water setup, waiting for my board and Cpu.:p

[VegetaQ]

Originally posted by f155mph
Um what is MC70??? Anyway I had a WBK38 and you can get it really cheap now for $20 if you can find them. I lapped the thing and the max temp I get is about 44c. Now I have the older style swifty 462 and I am doing 40c with the delta 68 until I fried my Tbird.

I know that not everyone have money to spend on hsf. But remember this "what you paid is what you get". So don't complain if you get crappy temps.

PS Now I got a water setup, waiting for my board and Cpu.:p
This is the Mc-370.

Its a smaller older version of newer swiftec models

http://www.mikhailtech.com/articles/cooling/mc370/

[VegetaQ]

Originally posted by dmlow
I am not spending that freaking much on a HSF! Another OC site said the D-Orb actually beat the MC70 in their tests so I may switch to the 7000 rpm one they used. As far as the other HSF you all metioned the reviews showed them tied or behind the mc70. If you can put two-and-two together the D-Orb dont sound bad to me.

Also the Website (Overclockers Cafe) I did find it the Heat Sink fan they compared is the Draon Orb 3 7000 RPM fan. And you have the older ORB 1 4900 rpm. Not even near as good. (Not to state the orb 3 is good.

[Sonny]

A few points;

1. The ClubOverclocker heatsink guide uses the Thermistor for temp readings so it's up to you if you want to trust something that has been proven to be inaccurate;

2. The DOrb1 is not a good choice. That is not an opinion but the truth.

3. The DOrb3+ Cu however is acceptable cooler. Just take a look at the articles from Overclockers.com. It beats at least one HSF mentioned in this thread.

4. Since you do have to upgrade to another HSF that is made out of copper or even just the base you can do much better than the DOrb3+ Cu.


Is a 300MHz+ O/C @ 1.93V acceptable? I have been happily using the DOrb3+ Cu but if I could've got something better at the time I would have:beer:

[RangerJoe]

the hsf that i have works great....great temps, and tbirds give our alot of heat...so that has to say something...it is loud...but you can find it for like $35 at www.hardcorecooling.com it is the hsf at the very bottom of the list....with the 7k fan

[VashTheStampede]

Originally posted by sonny
A few points;

1. The ClubOverclocker heatsink guide uses the Thermistor for temp readings so it's up to you if you want to trust something that has been proven to be inaccurate;

Yes but there is such a thing as consistent inaccuracy which makes it reliable data. They use the same motherboard, with the same thermistor, with the same OC'ed CPU, only variable is the HSF. So that Top Ten list is quite correct it's just the degrees they report are off by a few degrees, so when you get your HSF you will get just about the same temps their inaccurate thermistor got.

Just like the air chuck we use to check tire pressure and fill them with air, it's off by 5 lbs, we all know that, so we compensate for it. The same can be done with thermistors.

Consistent inaccuracy.

~Vash~

[Sonny]

Originally posted by VashTheStampede
Yes but there is such a thing as consistent inaccuracy which makes it reliable data. They use the same motherboard, with the same thermistor, with the same OC'ed CPU, only variable is the HSF. So that Top Ten list is quite correct it's just the degrees they report are off by a few degrees, so when you get your HSF you will get just about the same temps their inaccurate thermistor got.

Consistent inaccuracy.
That one variable is all it needs to mess up your "Consistent Inaccuracy". The design of the heatsink can influence how air hits the MoBo therefore have more than one variable change.Written by JoeC
The ********* has some real problems delivering aggressive performance, due, I think, to the heatsink's airflow stalling. Note, however, Motherboard Monitor temps - look darn good! What's happening here is very interesting: The fan is blowing LOTS of air at a downward angle onto the motherboard. This does add to CPU cooling, but not to the degree indicated by the in-socket thermistor.

High airflow from the fan onto the board is cooling the thermistor more than the CPU, giving a misleading temp reading.No matter how they test it if they use the Thermistor then it will be wrong.

[ButcherUK]

Thermistors do not even have linear correlation with cpu temps mostly. They are not consistently inaccurate at all, they are just plain wrong (prevoously noted air issue and being on a secondary heat path). If they wanted to be taken seriously they need at least a thermocouple probe or better still an XP diode. Anything other than an internal diode is going to exhibit poor quality results.

[hombre]

Okay guys,
Why would my XP1800 run around 48 to 49c idle, and only 51 to 53c loaded? And that's with the case closed or open.

I'm using a Volcano 6Cu+, with A/S II, and the fan averages 7200rpm.
I have been looking at better HSF's, but haven't been able to make up my mind, and then a buddy got me looking a water coolers the other day...

So what do ya think, do I need to re-seat my HSF?

[rogerdugans]

What are the case temps?
What mobo are you using?

My mobo runs hot and the cpu is always within a few degrees + or - case open or closed. Thermoengine extreme(ick!) but a lapped 7000 delta on it.

[hombre]

Originally posted by rogerdugans
What are the case temps?
What mobo are you using?
Sorry...

Case temps range from 33 to 35c with case open and I'm using an Abit KR7A.
I'm monitoring with SpeedFan 4.02 and Hardware Doctor, which both stay extremely close to the same.

The location is one factor cause I have it under my desk, so it doesn't get the air circulation it needs. I have the side panel off and it's sits 3 or 4 inches away from the desk.
I have 2 80mm case fans (1 in 1 out) and I have another 80mm setting under my hard drive to help it. (it runs 29 to 31c)
I just finished playing a game and the temp was up to 55.5c on my CPU, which is the highest I've seen it. I have raised the volts on my DDR to 2.75, which runs more at 2.78v, but I didn't think it would make much difference. And my vid card is o/c'd to 240/544 if that matters.
I'm planning on getting a larger case, new HSF, and rounded cables ASAP, but I wondered if this was somewhat normal, or if I had better make some changes pronto?

Thanks for the help

[rogerdugans]

Case seems a bit warm- most of mine are in the 20s somewhere.
I do have on that runs low to mid 30s though.

Is the hsf on right? How thin/thick is the AS2? Most people say they get the best results with the thinnest possible coat on the cpu die.

Is your hsf lapped? A flatter sink will get better contact and transfer heat better.

[Tycho]

48 dosen't sound too bad to me if its full load.

I have a Alpha PAL8045 w/ delta 68cfm on my tbird @ 1500
that goes anywhere from 42 - 50 just depending
on how warm it is in the room and how many bird
feathers and dander have gotten lodged in the
heatsink(don't ask).

If you want to go lower check out some of the better performing
heatsink fan cobos such as the Alpha, Swiftec, Glaciator or SK6 with a high cfm fan.

[Yodums]

Well you shouldn't be getting over 37 full load at all with your Alpha. With good thermal compound, good contact(Possibly lapped) and 300cfm+ airflow you should get max 34-35 degrees full load.

I've seen an AMD Stock fan lapped w/ ASII and it managed to hit 42 load thats good.

Yodums

Originally posted by Tycho
48 dosen't sound too bad to me if its full load.

I have a Alpha PAL8045 w/ delta 68cfm on my tbird @ 1500
that goes anywhere from 42 - 50 just depending
on how warm it is in the room and how many bird
feathers and dander have gotten lodged in the
heatsink(don't ask).

If you want to go lower check out some of the better performing
heatsink fan cobos such as the Alpha, Swiftec, Glaciator or SK6 with a high cfm fan.

[hombre]

Originally posted by rogerdugans
Case seems a bit warm- most of mine are in the 20s somewhere.
I do have on that runs low to mid 30s though.

Is the hsf on right? How thin/thick is the AS2? Most people say they get the best results with the thinnest possible coat on the cpu die.

Is your hsf lapped? A flatter sink will get better contact and transfer heat better.

When I had my memory problem on 12/28 http://forums.overclockers.ws/vb/showthread.php?threadid=54710 the way I got things running again, was I stripped everything out of the case and even took the HSF off, checked out the mobo and then put it all back together. Given the "Highly Agitated" state I was in, I know that I didn't take very much time when I reinstalled the HSF. In other words, it probably was thicker then the first time.

And to answer your 2nd question, "Nope", not lapped.

I just installed nVidia's 23.12 drivers and did a B/M to see if there was any changes. While I did that I moved my case out more so it was well opened and I haven't moved it back. My CPU temp is down to 44c, case is 32c, and hard drive is 27c.
So one thing for sure, until I do my coolant upgrade, I have to get my case out from under the desk.
I think I'll reseat my HSF also and spend a little more time with the AS.

Thanks for all the help, I do appreciate it! :)

BTW:
No improvement with the 23.12 drivers and 3DMark2000, I got one more point then I did with the 23.11's: 11039

[Sonny]

Originally posted by hombre
Case temps range from 33 to 35c with case open and I'm using an Abit KR7A.

The location is one factor cause I have it under my desk, so it doesn't get the air circulation it needs.Ambient temps. You cant cool below your room temp or location of your case.

[Sonny]

Originally posted by Yodums
Well you shouldn't be getting over 37 full load at all with your Alpha. With good thermal compound, good contact(Possibly lapped) and 300cfm+ airflow you should get max 34-35 degrees full load.What is this based on? Do you know what the temperature of the room he is at?

[Tycho]

Well I have 2 tbird 1400 systems, one is using an iwill kk266 with a glaciator and the other is an ecs k7s5a with the pal8045. The one with the alpha cools alot better but I have never seen either of them go below 40 deg C load. The thermometer on my desk is reading 82.2 deg F and the System temp of the ecs board is reading 26 deg C with the cpu reading 43 deg C. I use artic silver and have this pal bolted down very tight. I think that maybe either my boards are reading high or some others are reading low.
Anyway, all that matters to me is staying below 50 deg C at full load, I'm using rc5 to generate the heat and so far I haven't found anything that gets the processor hotter than it does.

[hombre]

Hey guys,

Okay, I remembered that I had a digital multimeter with a temp probe, so after I found the dang thing I did a little testin'.

-Idle Temps-
Case Temp: 32c (with side off/under desk)
Multimeter: 28c

CPU: 44c (this afternoon I was at 55c after a game) :eek:
Multi: 36c

Hard Drive: 27c
Multi: 28c

Room Temp: 20c (it's much warmer during the day)

Now the multimeter's CPU temp can't be too accurate cause the monitor sensor is under the processor and I could only hold the probe on the outer edge of it. (of coarse you knew that already)

What really surprized me was my vid card was showing 32c, which was higher than I expected. Right now I have it turned down just a bit to 230/530, so I wonder how much hotter it gets at 240/544 under load? I put a 60mm HSF on it which runs around 6200 rpm, but I had already figured on upgrading it also; good thing too.