best 'low profile' gpu?

[BackBreaker]

WHat is the best one on the market that will work on a 300 watt psu and a low profile motherboard setting?

[Cuiiey]

well do you want performance as well??? i would go for the 8400gs

[BackBreaker]

well do you want performance as well??? i would go for the 8400gs

sopposevly there is a 9600 gt available for low profile:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162016&Tpk=9600GT%20low%20profile

but does it also have to be connected to both of those molexes (the power supply molexes) or can one dangle? And do u guys think it would run on 300 psu?

[MadMan007]

What's the PSU? A junky 300W isn't much good for anything but a reasonable quality one would probably do OK, also depends upon the rest of the system.

[Cuiiey]

What else are you running in that system?? The 9600gt uses 245W on load and around 150 in idle. I would recondmend you get a larger PSU if you plan to buy a 9600gt!

[Neuromancer]

What else are you running in that system?? The 9600gt uses 245W on load and around 150 in idle. I would recondmend you get a larger PSU if you plan to buy a 9600gt!

The 9600GT uses 95W.

245 (I assume you are citing Tweaktowns review?) is a full system test.

Using our new PROVA Power Analyzer WM-01 or “Power Thingy” as it has become quickly known as to our readers, we are now able to find out what kind of power is being used by our test system and the associated graphics cards installed. Keep in mind; it tests the complete system (minus LCD monitor, which is plugged directly into AC wall socket).

The maximum energy consumption for the GeForce 9600 gt is equal to 95 W , in this case the card require six-pin power connector , since PCI Express x16 slot , first generation is capable to transfer not more than 75 W . If we considers that in its class the GeForce 9600 gt ensures high performance level , then the energy consumption level can be considered as acceptable.

Emphasis by me in both quotes.

source (http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id-4228-view-GeForce-9600-gt-power-consumption-level.html)


If you still are not sure...

Specs on the Prova Power Analyzer (http://test-equipment.globalspec.com/datasheets/4331/TESElectricalElectronic/55D04417-657D-4CDC-A308-1C0D5F5F0066) Note the number of channels (one)

[BackBreaker]

my psu:
Bestec 300 Watt Dual 12V Power Supply

output:
It is +12v/15A +12V/.08A
+5V/30A +5VSB/2AQ
+3.3V/28A

it only has one molex connector left dangling but I also have a portable media drive by that has things l dont have to really use that is connected through one of these 4 pin floppy/molex connectors:
http://www.jdresearch.com/icon/floppy_y.jpg

I have an extra pair of those from my old radeon 9800 pro so can I just use this to plug into this 9600gt?

[BackBreaker]

another option is to just buy this and connect it to the one dangling one but it is sharing power with the cd rom drive:
http://www.svc.com/4pinpowsupmo.html

[BackBreaker]

http://support.gateway.com/s/POWER/102544/102544sp3.shtml

[$SOLID$Necro]

The 9600GT uses a six pin power connector, and it looks like it comes with a molex adaptor (Take a look at the new egg photos and parts list)

The PSU you have now is probably going to power it effectively:

Minimum 400W or greater system power supply (with 12V current rating of 26A)*

http://www.galaxytech.com/Product_Details.asp?id=192&class1=1&class2=

So you will either have to look at purchasing a new PSU (Probably not a bad idea anyways, it's not the worst around, but I wouldn't trust it) or go with a lower power video card.

[BackBreaker]

it connects to two molexes not one though, and I only have one. People on newegg said they got it to work on 250 watt dell psus. SO Im really torn.

[$SOLID$Necro]

Oh..I am sure you could get it to work on a 250 watt PSU, but for how long?

PSU's tend to drop there peak capacity over time BTW, how old is the one you have now? (One of the PSU calculators I have used in the past actually factor that in!)

And did they have the same power load you do? (CPU, Ram HD, chipset..etc)

As someone mentioned, the "Typical" draw from a modern system at the wall with a 9600GT is 245 watts, assuming an effeciency of 80% from your 300 watt PSU, this is 240 watts.

Your system may have a single core low power CPU (The article test system was probably a Core 2 duo) that doesnt suck as much power..but you will most likely be right on the edge at any rate.

For long term health of any system, you don't want to exceed much more then 75% of your PSU' rated capacity..running at 90-100% load is very hard on them.

Would you rather drive to work everyday at 125MPH in a car that does barely does 130MPH, or one that does 150MPH and can comfortably cruise at 125MPH? (I wish..but they can do that on the German autobahn!)

In 6 months to a year (Maybe even the first time you boot) your system may start crashing or rebooting under load, and possibly even kill your new card.

That is worst case scenario...you may get lucky, but I have seen it happen before to freinds of mine that cheaped out on the PSU.

And BTW..ever notice people on new egg "Rate" them selves very highly tech wise? Half of them I wouldn't let near my PC! :eek:

So take claims like that with a grain of salt, there are legit people on there that know what there talking about, but a good portion of them are young kids that know a bit more then most of their nOOb buddies, and think there a pro! :rolleyes:

EDIT: Also note that Galaxy recomends 26amps for the 12v rail for long term safe operation and stability..this is actually more important then the "Watt" PSU rating..you have only 15 amps!

I have seen many "Supposed" high perf PSU's that are rated at 500 watts. For example, if you look at a 70$ top quality PC Power & Cooling version, it will have a 35 amp rating.

+3.3V@24A,+5V@24A,+12V@35A,-12V@0.8A,+5VSB@2.5A

Now compare that to a 30$ cheapo:

+3.3V@28A,+5V@38A,+12V@22A,
-12V@0.8A, -5V@0.5A, +5V@2.0A

How can a PSU with the same watt rating have such different 12v amp ratings?

Simple..its dirt cheap for them to pump up the 3.3v and 5v amp ratings, and still "Qualify" as a 500 watt PSU. The majority of your PC's load is on the 12v rail...that is just one of the reasons to be wary of cheap PSU's with high power ratings.

Look at how much lower the 3.3 and 5v rails are on the good PSU, you don't need a ton of amps on these rails. That 30$ cheapo based on 12v amps would only compare to a high quality 300~350watt PSU most likely! (If you don't bother looking at noise, ripple and other factors...they are very important too!)

A 370 watt PC Power&Cooling will run 35$ after a 15$ rebate, and has 27 amps on the 12v rail, 5 more then that no name brand 30$ 500 watt!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703018

That is probably the lowest I would go for the 9600GT...the watt rating is just below the reccomended, but the amp rating is above....and that is realy what counts!

This Sliverstone 400 watt would also do the trick for 30$ and you won't have to mess with rebates, it has 2 12v rails at 18 amps (36 total) but I prefer single rail PSU's. Read #8 on the PSU myths HERE (http://www.pcpower.com/technology/myths/)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256032

NOTE: THIS POWER SUPPLY COMES SELECTED FOR 230 VOLT OPERATION, BE SURE AND CHANGE IT TO 115 VOLTS BEFORE POWERING UP

I am just looking out for ya buddy...not trying to ruin your plans or make you spend money you don't need. IMO, that 9600GT is just to much card for your PSU, the 8400 series would not only solve your connector issue, it won't require a PSU upgrade.

Oh, and BTW, a friendly reminder...it is also a good idea to throw your system specs in the first post, or in your sig, then we don't have to ask or guess what ya got under the hood ;]

[BackBreaker]

Oh..I am sure you could get it to work on a 250 watt PSU, but for how long?

PSU's tend to drop there peak capacity over time BTW, how old is the one you have now? (One of the PSU calculators I have used in the past actually factor that in!)

And did they have the same power load you do? (CPU, Ram HD, chipset..etc)

As someone mentioned, the "Typical" draw from a modern system at the wall with a 9600GT is 245 watts, assuming an effeciency of 80% from your 300 watt PSU, this is 240 watts.

Your system may have a single core low power CPU (The article test system was probably a Core 2 duo) that doesnt suck as much power..but you will most likely be right on the edge at any rate.

For long term health of any system, you don't want to exceed much more then 75% of your PSU' rated capacity..running at 90-100% load is very hard on them.

Would you rather drive to work everyday at 125MPH in a car that does barely does 130MPH, or one that does 150MPH and can comfortably cruise at 125MPH? (I wish..but they can do that on the German autobahn!)

In 6 months to a year (Maybe even the first time you boot) your system may start crashing or rebooting under load, and possibly even kill your new card.

That is worst case scenario...you may get lucky, but I have seen it happen before to freinds of mine that cheaped out on the PSU.

And BTW..ever notice people on new egg "Rate" them selves very highly tech wise? Half of them I wouldn't let near my PC! :eek:

So take claims like that with a grain of salt, there are legit people on there that know what there talking about, but a good portion of them are young kids that know a bit more then most of their nOOb buddies, and think there a pro! :rolleyes:

EDIT: Also note that Galaxy recomends 26amps for the 12v rail for long term safe operation and stability..this is actually more important then the "Watt" PSU rating..you have only 15 amps!

I have seen many "Supposed" high perf PSU's that are rated at 500 watts. For example, if you look at a 70$ top quality PC Power & Cooling version, it will have a 35 amp rating.

+3.3V@24A,+5V@24A,+12V@35A,-12V@0.8A,+5VSB@2.5A

Now compare that to a 30$ cheapo:

+3.3V@28A,+5V@38A,+12V@22A,
-12V@0.8A, -5V@0.5A, +5V@2.0A

How can a PSU with the same watt rating have such different 12v amp ratings?

Simple..its dirt cheap for them to pump up the 3.3v and 5v amp ratings, and still "Qualify" as a 500 watt PSU. The majority of your PC's load is on the 12v rail...that is just one of the reasons to be wary of cheap PSU's with high power ratings.

Look at how much lower the 3.3 and 5v rails are on the good PSU, you don't need a ton of amps on these rails. That 30$ cheapo based on 12v amps would only compare to a high quality 300~350watt PSU most likely! (If you don't bother looking at noise, ripple and other factors...they are very important too!)

A 370 watt PC Power&Cooling will run 35$ after a 15$ rebate, and has 27 amps on the 12v rail, 5 more then that no name brand 30$ 500 watt!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703018

That is probably the lowest I would go for the 9600GT...the watt rating is just below the reccomended, but the amp rating is above....and that is realy what counts!

This Sliverstone 400 watt would also do the trick for 30$ and you won't have to mess with rebates, it has 2 12v rails at 18 amps (36 total) but I prefer single rail PSU's. Read #8 on the PSU myths HERE (http://www.pcpower.com/technology/myths/)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256032

NOTE: THIS POWER SUPPLY COMES SELECTED FOR 230 VOLT OPERATION, BE SURE AND CHANGE IT TO 115 VOLTS BEFORE POWERING UP

I am just looking out for ya buddy...not trying to ruin your plans or make you spend money you don't need. IMO, that 9600GT is just to much card for your PSU, the 8400 series would not only solve your connector issue, it won't require a PSU upgrade.

Oh, and BTW, a friendly reminder...it is also a good idea to throw your system specs in the first post, or in your sig, then we don't have to ask or guess what ya got under the hood ;]

Thanks for that. The thing is I heard some motherboards don't accept certain psus. Is this true? Like cheap motherboards would they evena ccept any psu into their system?

[$SOLID$Necro]

Great Question!

Well..if you have a Dell, HP, Or someother big name brand system like that, they are notorius for having what is known as "Propietary" designs.

What that means is they do not conform to the "ATX" spec, wich is a set of guidelines set up by a large group of people so that parts like motherboards and power supplies have common wiring pinout and electrical compatibility.

Dell..for example, ignores this spec cause "They know better" and they feel there engineering is superior :screwy:

What that realy means is if you buy a "Non Dell" replacement PSU or motherboard, you gonna have a 4th of July fireworks show.

I cannot speak for sure about HP or other big name brands, but I know for a fact Dell does this (Though just recently, they have changed there "Gaming" XPS line to acept standard ATX parts)

If it ends up your system uses a standard ATX design, about the only thing you would have to worry about is the main power connector, some older boards use something like an 18 pin connector, and newer boards use a 24pin.

Most new power supplies use the 24 pin, but some can work on a 18 pin because the extra 6 pins can simply be "Removed" by unsnapping them from the connector. My old OCZ 520 SLI does this, but not all will, especially the cheap brands.

[BackBreaker]

will this card run on that power suppy:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150322&Tpk=9500%20GT%20low%20profile

ANd is the card better than the other low profile cards outside of 9600 gt. I dont want to buy a new pwoer supply and risk it not being compatible so whats the best low profile card I can get for this system? I dont care about future games, just total war strategy games and half life 2 source.

[$SOLID$Necro]

Thermal and Power Specs:
Maximum GPU Tempurature (in C) 105 C
Maximum Graphics Card Power (W) 50 W
Minimum System Power Requirement (W) 350 W

Thats from the NVIDIA website for a standard 9500GT 512MB..your version is 1GB memory, but should be pretty close.

It does not mention a min amp rating, and the XFX site is acting wonky.

Will it work? I would say probably yes...but don't hold me to it, it's your ultimate responsability if something goes wrong, myself or the forums cannot be held liable be cause you know up front your PSU is under the "Official" specs.

But just barely, one hell of alot safer then if you went that 9600GT.

If all your worried about getting the wrong PSU, and that is ALL that is holding you back from upgrading it...then give us the exact model number of your PC and brand, I (or someone else here) can track down the info, and find out if a standard ATX PSU will work, and point you to a good quality one that won't break the bank...and i would feel alot better too!

Then you can get whatever video card you want and not have to sweat it!

Bottom line though, that is pushing a touch above the limits of your PSU, It draws only 50watts max, the 9600GT is at 90 watts.

NVIDIA lists the 9400gt at 50 watts also, but drops the min PSU to 300 watts..and is "Officialy" the highest card you current PSU will support.

There is a world of difference between that 9400GT and that 9600 GT...when it comes to game performance. 9500GT falls right in the middle of them.

I can't say for sure what the min vid card specs you will need for the games you play...you know your games better then I do, they are pretty easily found in game forums related to them

Just remember the min spec is not usualy going to provide a very good experience, The "Recomended" is where you want to be at.

That being said, this is a great way to test what you have now, and see what they reccomend.

Just pick your game and run the test, it will suggest an upgrade video card, and point out any other areas you may fall short (OS, CPU, Ram, Etc..)

http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/referrer/srtest

[BackBreaker]

Thermal and Power Specs:
Maximum GPU Tempurature (in C) 105 C
Maximum Graphics Card Power (W) 50 W
Minimum System Power Requirement (W) 350 W

Thats from the NVIDIA website for a standard 9500GT 512MB..your version is 1GB memory, but should be pretty close.

It does not mention a min amp rating, and the XFX site is acting wonky.

Will it work? I would say probably yes...but don't hold me to it, it's your ultimate responsability if something goes wrong, myself or the forums cannot be held liable be cause you know up front your PSU is under the "Official" specs.

But just barely, one hell of alot safer then if you went that 9600GT.

If all your worried about getting the wrong PSU, and that is ALL that is holding you back from upgrading it...then give us the exact model number of your PC and brand, I (or someone else here) can track down the info, and find out if a standard ATX PSU will work, and point you to a good quality one that won't break the bank...and i would feel alot better too!

Then you can get whatever video card you want and not have to sweat it!

Bottom line though, that is pushing a touch above the limits of your PSU, It draws only 50watts max, the 9600GT is at 90 watts.

NVIDIA lists the 9400gt at 50 watts also, but drops the min PSU to 300 watts..and is "Officialy" the highest card you current PSU will support.

There is a world of difference between that 9400GT and that 9600 GT...when it comes to game performance. 9500GT falls right in the middle of them.

I can't say for sure what the min vid card specs you will need for the games you play...you know your games better then I do, they are pretty easily found in game forums related to them

Just remember the min spec is not usualy going to provide a very good experience, The "Recomended" is where you want to be at.

That being said, this is a great way to test what you have now, and see what they reccomend.

Just pick your game and run the test, it will suggest an upgrade video card, and point out any other areas you may fall short (OS, CPU, Ram, Etc..)

http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/referrer/srtest

thanks, I wont hold you guys liable. This guy seems to have a similar power supply (also bestec and from gateway) but it seems it has more rails or apps (but is only 280 watts) and ppl say hell be able to run the 9500 gt:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/254835-28-whats-high-quality-watt

ALso I did one of those ratings of how many watts I should be using and its only like 220-230 or so and it sopposevly only takes 50. SO should I go ahead and buy it?

[BackBreaker]

And Id rather not upgrade the psu right now, The 9600 gt is still kind of expensive if you factor in the psu upgrade and such so Ill probably wait till it goes down in price or theyll make a different low profile card to the market before upgrading a psu unless the 9500gt. I jsut recently bought this computer and spent some money already this month.

[BackBreaker]

oh and here are my specs inc ase I forgot to post them on this thread:
http://support.gateway.com/s/PC/R/1009484/1009484sp3.shtml

Here is one of few sites I checked for a test hecking how much watts it uses:
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

but maybe I took it wrong and would appreciate if anyone more knowledgable could check.

[$SOLID$Necro]

I came up with 240 watts INCLUDING a 9600GT.

The Pro version would also list your amp requirements, wich is more critical as I have gone over before.

A top quality 300 watt PSU would do the trick, but that gateway 300 watt is the minumum gateway has determined will be the min. you need for its STOCK configuration over its projected life span, they don't give you any headroom for anything but minor upgrades (amp wise) such as more ram and maybe another hard drive...

If you pop in another 50w (9500gt) or 90w (9600GT) load into that system, all bets are off (Gateway waranty wise!)

I realy wish somone would weigh in on this topic, I may be paranoid about it, I just have seen too many sad stories over the years when it comes to upgrading stock dells and gateways with the power supplies they come with!


EDIT: I missed your post with the link on that TOMS thread, try EDITING you last post if you want to add info, rather then having two or 3 posts in a row with just a few lines 2 minutes apart (With no other replies from others in between) most forums frown upon that :)

You will probably be fine with the 9500GT as I said earlier without a PSU upgrade, but your PSU will be huffing and puffing after a long gaming session in the summer months especially...the 9600 GT is a definate no.

[BackBreaker]

I came up with 240 watts INCLUDING a 9600GT.

The Pro version would also list your amp requirements, wich is more critical as I have gone over before.

A top quality 300 watt PSU would do the trick, but that gateway 300 watt is the minumum gateway has determined will be the min. you need for its STOCK configuration over its projected life span, they don't give you any headroom for anything but minor upgrades (amp wise) such as more ram and maybe another hard drive...

If you pop in another 50w (9500gt) or 90w (9600GT) load into that system, all bets are off (Gateway waranty wise!)

I realy wish somone would weigh in on this topic, I may be paranoid about it, I just have seen too many sad stories over the years when it comes to upgrading stock dells and gateways with the power supplies they come with!


EDIT: I missed your post with the link on that TOMS thread, try EDITING you last post if you want to add info, rather then having two or 3 posts in a row with just a few lines 2 minutes apart (With no other replies from others in between) most forums frown upon that :)

You will probably be fine with the 9500GT as I said earlier without a PSU upgrade, but your PSU will be huffing and puffing after a long gaming session in the summer months especially...the 9600 GT is a definate no.

what do you think of getting some sort of fan in there connected to that free molext or a battery operated one?

[$SOLID$Necro]

It may or may not help, depending how effecient the cooling is on the 9500..but it usually won't hurt.

[BackBreaker]

to tell the truth I dont need manyupgrades except for ram, so you still dont think the 9600gt will work? You said gateway has determined it will work? I just dont have the necessary pcie connector or enough molexes.

Also, considering the price difference how much worse are these low profile cards than the 9500 gt?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814145153
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102754
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121281

[BackBreaker]

Ok I ordered the 9500 gt. Do you think Ill be able to run Mirrors edge with Physx effects like these?
http://kotaku.com/5106070/mirrors-edge-with-and-without-awesome-physx-effects

ALso, it lists 18A on a 12V as requirement but I only have 12V15A. DOes it matter?