Bong Cooling W/Direct Concact Advice!

[Pepsi]

Hey guys hope all is good w/you,
I have a new design I want to test tonight..this ones a little wild bear with me. I came across the idea after reading the Sunny Delight Bottle conversion story. I thought about direct contact and basically an easy way to fit the concept to many different processors and this is what I came up with. I can get acrylic plastic all sizes and configs for dirt cheap. This little idea has already been nicknamed Icecube see pic.. The cube is a two by two inch and 1.25" thick. If a person had several different MoBo's and processors the same cube would work you'd just adjust the inlet and outlet to fit the MoBo as well as chip (Intell/AMD). The nice thing is the ZIF lever is totally out of the way and the thing will hang on it's own I think. What I would like to know is your opinions first off I have all types of epoxy as well as stuff like metal menders ect, you know what I mean? What do you think would be best to attach the cube to the processor? Second should I carve out the entire center of the cube and coat the rest of the chip with epoxy to seal it against the water or just the core exposed to the water flow??? I know that epoxy is an insulator as far as heat goes. I really want to test this idea tonight with my new bong I made ....if it works I'll post a couple of pics of that weird looking thing. Thanks again.
Pepsi

[Pepsi]

sorry pic probs I'll up them ASAP.

[Pepsi]

cube pic

[Pepsi]

side look

[seeker]

Hey Pepsi

imho I would cut a hole for the core only,and coat the rest of the chip with water proof material just to be safe. The rest of the chip conducts heat very poorly and the risk of getting the parts wet is very scary. My .02....
Good luck with it....looks cool:)

[Diggrr]

Marine Goop is a super overclocker's secret weapon.

Watch out for the metal mending type epoxies...some conduct, some don't, but they don't always like to say so on the tubes.

I'd go with just the core area wet also. The Marine Goop may be clear enough to see the processor still also. Just be aware, it's very hard to remove the block afterwards. It held my direct die block on so well, that I had to grind the block most of the way off with a dremel, then clip of the remaining plastic off with small wire (diagonal) cutters. Acrylic would be much harder to do that with.
I held my breath the whole time. My block was only 1/4" thick too.

Have fun.

[UserName]

This Guy (http://www.agaweb.com/coolcpu/build.htm) did basically the same thing. Yours looks much cooler. He just RTV'd it on so he could get it off easy. I think if you made a set of bolt down straps using the boltholes in most motherboards you could screw it down fine, and get it off with no prob. Don't seal the CPU, as water won't hurt it at all. I'd carve out as small a hole over the CPU as possible to get the best flow speed as possible.

How do you plan to fit tubes to it?

Would you send me a block of that?

[Ozzman]

wait im lost thats not a huge block of ice is it?? its plastic right?? but how will plastic cool a cpu?

[Pepsi]

Thanks for the great input guys!
Yes it is a solid block of Acrylic the inlets and outlets can be placed anywhere you want (that's the beauty of the thing, if you goof up seal the holes) Username sure I can send you one email me @ pebsworth@hotmail.com. A little hint though if you live in a large enough city find a plastics supplier they usually have a scrap bin and will sell that stuff for a buck or two a pound. I got 4" tube 4' length, 2" tube tons of thick stuff for under 20 bucks. The Ice cube was cut for me at no charge I have several more. So I suppose I'll carve my cube today and start testing. Here's a pic of the wild looking bong I made.

[Pepsi]

Front Look Bong

[Pepsi]

Back Look Bong,
The pump is in this 4" cylinder you see. The hot water enters into the 4" cylinder on the other side travels through the 2" into the 3/4" around and returns to the pump side. I have a fish tank aerator blowing bubbles through the whole thing it'll evaporate 1/4 inch out of a 4" tube in about an hour. It has a very pleasant sound kind bubbling splashing... ah you get the idea.

[The Overclocker]

Originally posted by Pepsi
Front Look Bong

wow, i have seen bongs like that sold in strange stores - it is glass right?

i have made a sucessful direct die block, but it does not look as cool as yours, mine is here: http://forums.overclockers.ws/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58752

[Pepsi]

Nope the bong is all acrylic plastic. It comes in straight lengths like PVC pipe. Cutting it is tricky(it's very brittle) to bend it you heat it (I use a killer heatgun) once you get it to the proper temp it's like a noodle you can do anything with it. It took me three nights to build the one in the pics here's another just for heck of it. One thing seeing how the thing was going to be in plain sight I embellished on the design. It's supposed to be kind of pleasing to the eye as well as doing the job...That's just blue food coloring in the water.. red looks really cool.......anyway..here another pic. If you look at the small tubes in the back you can see the water flowing into the pump section.
Pepsi

[UserName]

Thats got to be up there for coolness.

About connecting tubes to the block. Are you gonna just drill a hole in the block and butt a tube to it with glue? How do you make holes in the water block?

Now i gotta go make a new DD WB. :D

[Yodums]

What a crazy looking bong, I'm use to looking at white bongs :D

Yodums

[kd7aze]

I'm not sure how well this would work with acryllic, but if you could get a mortiser, you could keep the square look going with your setup... And it would make a nice tight fit around the core.

For your non-wood workers out there, a mortiser uses a chisle and drill combo to make square holes.

Kid

[Pepsi]

Actually K you are 100% correct. I am a woodworker and have devoted my talents to building Trade Show displays....thus you get my weirdness ...I carved out the test die (cube)with my trusty Dremel, but if need be a morticing chisel would be perfect to make square holes in acrylic. I was really impatient = (this is going blow up) to get this prototype going as of right now the epox is setting. I was really worried about the glue (epoxy) being nonconductive my buddy and I thought hey stupid test it! I got my Fluke and mixed up a small pot of epoxy it did not conduct at all testing for overload, but a saturated paper towel (water) did. Once the pot is hardened I'll test again. Sweet idea eh? Connecting the tubes was easy I could watch the drill bit cut through the cube. The tubes are glued in and are aluminium 1/4" OD. So if all goes well my next post will be from the the other end of the house (I'm using my son's computer). Later guy's

[UserName]

Did you get some pic's before you glued it?

You gotta get us more Pics. I want to see how you did the tubes in the block in acrylic?

[Pepsi]

Ok..
More pics NP give me a moment ........rats should have taken some before I epox'd the chip on ................but I take a couple. Post in a few.
Pepsi

[Pepsi]

The glue pics (as usual in a hurry.....)

[Pepsi]

Another Look

[Pepsi]

One more

[UserName]

the tubes look aluminiun. Did you just glue them in?

[Pepsi]

Yes the tubing is aluminum here's a look with tubes cut off and bent on the MoBo

[Pepsi]

One more ... notice no springs no screws it hangs ALL BY ITSELF! Too cool! It worked like I hoped the ZIF lever holds it all. Right now I'm leak testing .......so far so good.
Pepsi

[aabighead]

thats sexy man...very sexy :D

[JoeCrappa]

wow. thats nice. how high can you OC now? and what kinda temps do you get?

[UserName]

Need a little blue led in that baby. Or use UV dye and a UV LED.

Could you have done the tubes in acrilic too.

How did you cut the block to size and keep it smooth?

[Bender]

Hey pepsi I would really like to buy a chunk of that acrylic off you if you still have any around. I might just stick one on my celeron for my direct die cooling project. If it were a biger chunk you could thread 4 holes in the base and use nylon screws to mount the block. Then you can use some goop to seal off the cpu without sticking it permanently to the cpu.

[Warlord2]

I just did a quik yahoo search and found lots of places that sell Acrylic blocks

here are some of thim

http://www.aftosa.com/acrylicblocks.html

http://www.rubbertree-enterprises.com/mounting_systems.htm

http://www.mertechconsulting.com/cgi-local/basket/textsolidacrylicblocks.htm#largeacrylicblocks

I guess they use this stuff to put things on display like rock,shells etc

Very nice mod there Pepsi I cant wait to see how well it performs. The bong also looks sweet and looks like it does a good job and doesnt use as much water.

[Pepsi]

Thanks guys (blush)
Blocks of acrylic I can get any size and thickness. Like I said earlier if you call around to your local plastic suppliers they may have scraps they will probably give you. If anyone wants some of this stuff to experiment with and can't find it locally email me @ pebsworth@hotmail.com. If you get me before 3pm today I will be going back to the shop where I get my supplies. I'd be glad to get a chunk for you. It may or not be to your exact specs I'll see what I can do. Who read my mind ? The reason I am going back is to get some acrylic tubing the aluminium is too small to pass enough water, the first test temps weren't too good (112 - 114 F) YUCK! I figured this was due to small tubing and the core had a touch of epox on it. By the way you might find this interesting guys once I found my temps were lousy I took the cube out and blasted the side of it with my heat gun being the plastic expanded faster than the processor the cube literally popped off in 10 seconds or so, clean up was a breeze most of the epox stayed on the cube. Today bigger pump and larger tubing will do the job as well as the clear tubing should really dress it up. Sorry no good results, but it is only a matter of time this will work I'm sure of it. Finishing acrylic is fairly easy to cut to size a table saw with special blade is used. The saw marks then can be wet sanded off and then you buff to a high gloss. You can also flame with a small torch but that's a little tricky and can ruin your project in the blink of an eye. I'll keep ya posted.
Pepsi

[pudgy-duck]

Pepsi,
Sorry I didn't read this thread sooner. This suggestion may be too late for your project. But maybe next time, or for one of the mates wanting to build one like yours.

I built a direct water contact cooling block also. I bought a Radio Shack indoor/outdoor thermometer. They usually cost $14.95 but are on sale quite often for $9.99. I took it apart and removed the thermistor from the circuit board. Then I soldered a piece of 24 or 28 gauge speaker wire on the board where the thermistor came off. Then I soldered the thermistor on the other end of the cable. basically I brought the thermistor out of the case on a cable. I drilled a hole in the side of the water block, and threaded the thermistor and cable into the water block. I epoxied the thermistor to the cpu so it touched the side of the cpu die. The thermistor is quite small, only slightly thicker than the cpu die. While the epoxy was still tacky, I mixed more epoxy and mounded epoxy over the top of the thermistor and onto the top surface of the die slightly. I wanted to insulate the thermistor from the water as much as possible and only have the die heating the thermistor. Then I "potted" the top of the cpu ceramic package with epoxy so only the top surface of the die is exposed to the coolant. I feel this is the most accurate way to measure the cpu temp on a T-bird. I noticed you were encapsulating a T-bird in your pics.

The thermometer responds very quickly to temperature changes. Now that I have an accurate way to measure cpu temps, I can compare this to what MBM 5 reports from the in-socket thermistor. DO NOT trust the in-socket thermistor. I have two indoor/outdoor thermometers, and I can monitor ambient room temp, case temp (outdoor probe between the cpu and the first dimm module), cpu temp, and water temp (outdoor probe in the resevoir). As I type this, ambient room temp is 69.4F/20.8C, cpu temp is 76.8F/24.9C, case temp is 72.3F/22.4C, and water temp is 58.3F/14.6C. I am using a 5 gal bucket bong as described on overclockers.com.

The more I use this the more confident I am that this setup is accurately (within 2 or 3 degrees) measuring the cpu temp.

Another tip. I messed up my first attemp at encapsulating my T-bird. I thought I has lost my T-bird. So, I cut off the top of the water block, exposing the cpu. Knowing the properties of epoxy, I got a 1500 watt hair blower and heated up the epoxy. When it got hot, it turned to a rubbery consistancy like the Jello that they used to serve us in the grade school cafeteria. I worked the epoxy loose in one corner, and peeled the epoxy off the cpu like a woman peels off her facial mask. Then I popped the water block off the cpu. You couldn't tell that the cpu had ever been encapsulated in epoxy, looked like new.

Just a couple of tips from my experience in cpu encapsulating.

[pudgy-duck]

Pepsi;

I was composing my reply when you put up your last post, so some of my stuff looks kinda dumb coming after your last post.

You obviously know about the heat gun trick.

Now that you are starting over, consider putting a thermistor next to the cpu. It REALLY works great.

[pudgy-duck]

Pepsi;

I have been sitting here thinking about your high temps. I hope you are not offended if I make a few suggestions.

First, I have seen the picture of "overclockers" water block. His block and mine have one thing in common that is different from yours. Namely, size. My water block started as the plug for a pvc 4 inch sewer clean out. I cut off the square "nut" portion of the plug. It's outside dimensions are 50 mm by 50 mm, but the wall thickness is 6 mm, so the inside dimensions are about 37 mm by 37 mm and about 20 mm tall inside. So I have much less water volume inside the block, which creates much more turbulence. There is a sticky thread at the beginning of this forum, It was put up by HOOT, and is entitled "a must read article on cooling". If you haven't read this, do it before your next attempt. Turbulence is the name of the game. Also, in your picture, your inlet comes down right on top of the cpu die. This again prevents turbulence. My suggestion: Decrease the size of the water block. My inside dimensions are 1.5 inch x 1.5 inch x .75 inch tall which equals about 1.68 cubic inches. Then just have the inlet and outlet pipes just barely come inside the block. Try to place the inlet and outlet pipes on the block so they create the most swirling. Due to MoBo constraints, my inlet and outlet are both on the top, but my first failed attempt had the inlet and outlet on the same side, and I think this created more turbulence. But I have to go with what works with my MoBo and case.



My water flow is a MEASURED 2 gal per minute/120 gal per hour. I consider this to be a minimum. My inlet and outlet tubes are 1/2 inch I.D and 5/8 inch O.D. Again, I consider this a minimum, because after experimenting, I consider direct water cooling to be less efficient than a copper water block. I, like a lot of people, thought that direct water contact with the cpu die would create the best cooling. After trying it, I am convinced that it isn't. I think that direct water contact gives the best heat transfer coefficient, but you only have this great coefficient on a very limited surface area. The surface area of a T-bird is approx 2 tenths of a square inch. And the key point here is, heat transfer only takes place at the surface contact area between the two medias, here being water & solid. So you only have a LIMITED surface area for heat transfer. With a copper water block, copper is a GREAT heat dissipator or spreader. So, even though the heat transfer coefficient of CPU to Copper to water is less, you eventually end up with MUCH more surface area between the copper and the water. Perhaps 2 or 3 Square inches. I compare this to the Wal*Mart principle. If you make less profit per unit (smaller heat transfer coefficient) then you have to sell more units to increase profit (larger water contact area). If you sell enough units, you make more profit. Or in our case more surface area in the copper water block. You can design a copper water block to have more surface area. You can't re-design the cpu surface area. You are stuck with 2 tenths of a sqaure inch.

My delta temp between the water temp entering the water block and the cpu temp averages 16 to 20 degrees difference. Let me repeat that, the cpu die is 16 to 20 degrees F higher than the water cooling it. So, to get decent CPU temps, you must have water temps BELOW abient. In my case, the water temp is 9 to 10 degrees below abient to get 77 degrees F cpu temps. This is not attainable with a radiator system. You have to use a bong to obtain this. Where as, people using copper water blocks and radiators (cannot cool below abient) often report good cpu temps.
So, copper water blocks in the end must be more efficient due to the much greater contact surface area between the copper and water. I Haven't proven this, because I don't have a copper water block, but I would love to put a copper water block on this same cpu that is now direct water contact cooled and see what the difference really is.

I have rambled on enough, good luck with your next attempt.

[pudgy-duck]

Pepsi,

Forgot. On overclockers.com front page, under the date January 11, there is a link to an article entitled "Watercooling Physics" by Mike Larson. This is actually part 2, but there is a link in part 2 to part 1. You might want to read these, especially part 2 where Mike discusses turbulence, before your next attempt.

[JoeCrappa]

JEEEEBUS! that was a he|| of a lot of reading! some people just love to type i guess! haha. your info was good though pudgy duck. do you have any pics of your system?

[Pepsi]

Whew!
Thanks Guys! Yeeeeeeeeeeea...... in my haste to get a prototype up and running I forgot a few basics.........the walmart temp sensor I have and I have one set up for the second attempt. I got a new pump 200 GPH and I am all set to change from 1/4" lines to 1/2". Turbulence yea it dawned on me what I had done with the other config on the tubing line up. The second prototype water enters the top going straight down makes an abrupt right hand turn straight to the die and exits out the bottom. It should work better, but before I drill any holes I'll go do a little reading. Pudgy Duck I have a copper block that runs off refrigerated water when I was testing that I noticed the best I could get was about 20 degrees F above what ever the coolant was in the fridge. The setup is still there, but I had so many probs with condensation (it's scary to see frost forming on the waterblock) I have put that project on hold. I could cheat with this reset the fridge temp higher and run cool water through the die... NAW
I did go to the plastics shop today I needed a bunch of cutting done and the saw man had gone so I am using the last block I have on hand, but tomorrow I'll have more all different thicknesses to experiment with. But I'll keep ya posted I have stumbled across the MOST amazing idea for lights quite by accident. I have to show it in pic and the Sony mavica is DEAD rats!
Anyway later I have some reading to do. Thanks again for the great advice!:cool:
Pepsi

[pudgy-duck]

Pepsi;

Thanks for the feedback on the copper block. With a T-bird, 16 to 20 degrees differential may be the best that can be done no matter what you stick on top of the cpu. I don't feel so bad about my water block now.
Are you buying these acrylic cubes already made, or are you building them yourself. If you are building them yourself, what are you using for a bonding agent on the acrylic joints?

[MadMan007]

Pepsi,
You are really gonna leave that block running full-time just hanging by the ZIF socket? I dunno man, I would make it more secure (unless those metal pipes take off a lot of the strain.)

Maybe make a simple "U" shape bracket with a screw-down in the middle, just using the socket lugs to help hold it?

[Pepsi]

Mad Man,
Cripes I think everybody here is becoming mind readers.... well at first I thought it looked like a good idea (I hate messing with bolts / springs ) and for the life of me I can't find that anti gravity unit I made a couple of years ago. Actually I had a bad dream in time with wear and tear the weight of the block killed the bond on the chip one day the thing fell off just as I hit a new personal OC mark of course at that time I had stepped out to go to the mini mart. My new bong I'd made (1000 gallons CAP. ) had emptied it's contents into my case and flooded the house. I came home opened the front door.................thinking humm I wonder if I should put some nylon bolts on that baby.
The new setup is a bit heavier and I don't think just hanging it off the ZIF will work, but I'll tell ya with old block on there it really was solid. All those little pins divided by a total weight of about 2 ounces you would not think that would be too bad. I think though I am more worried about the bond weakening (hot/cold..expan/contra) and gravity takes over then I decide to go to the mini mart one day ...................
:D Pepsi

Pudgy Duck,
Those cubes are sheet goods meaning the plastic shop gets a 2 X 4 foot sheet of that say 1.5" thick they chop it up. I raided their scrap bin (1 buck a pound) and found pieces 2" wide and long enough to make three blocks they cut them for me. Good point about the glue NOTHING sticks very well to this acrylic even Epox for the joints I have two types glue one is thick the other is very water like they both work the same way. The two parts are fused together no other glue does this. At a couple of bucks for a bottle it's a deal. I know this forum is not the proper place to discuss this but it will be part of my completed block.........so here goes. Last night I mentioned lights....we have two small children so our house has a lighted path from the girls bedroom to ours (if you have kids you'll know why) anyway working late last night I was really tired, for some reason I started looking at one of the night lights. They are the type that plugs into the socket and gives off a blue glow. They are maybe 1/4" thick so they sit near flush to the wall. I got one and took it apart to my surprise the part that made the light was a thin flim. I took two alligator clips and attached it to a 110 socket. It worked! I got my scissors and chopped off a corner it still worked! I made a hole in the middle it still worked! What are these cells called, I can't quite think of it. I embedded one in the base of the new block, it effect is so wild the cube refracts the light all over in it the source of the light is hard to spot. I'll take a pic tonight (camera dead bat.. forgot to plug it in). Enough of that .. I got my check list and as soon as get my plastic today I'll finish Cube 2. This one will have onboard temp sensing and in the study of turbulence I have mounted a 3/4" lens in the front you will be able to see the processor quite clearly. I am going to do some dye tests and watch the flow of the water through all the clear acrylic, should be interesting. As far as dye goes what should I use (food coloring) UV dye I know nothing about or even where to get it. Does anyone know? I even thought about putting a small amount glitter in to the system ........why not?
Got to go ..... Thanks for great input guys!
Pepsi

[Pepsi]

Cube Update....
After a lot of thinking I shifted gears.............I did alot of reading and thinking. The cube is redone I bought a new pump 450GPH and changed all the lines to .500 ID. My res/bong changed from the exotic to a 5.5 gallon fishtank (sorry no fishes). To evaporate the water I placed a simple 10"X10"X2" humidifier filter for a home furnace on top of the fishtank with two 105 CFM Sunon fans blasting it. Not so exotic as the the other stuff......but I thought it's time to keep it simple and get good results. I am putting on the finishing touches tonight and waiting for glue to set.
I had some serious thoughts after the last attempt. The objective #1 was to move water from point A pick up heat at point B and return to point A as fast as possible. I thought hummm my pump stinks.....so I got the best I could find as well as fit into my budget. Now I can move water, the old pump well was a little weak. Thinking along the same lines I got a tank for 9$ some other stuff for the plumbing. My point is if you want to water cool set up a list (I did not ). I got a little crazy with design.......which in the end clouded my goal. But now I think I just might have come up with a killer idea, easy to find the parts, not expensive, and works. I'll keep ya posted.
Pepsi

[Pepsi]

Hey..... how's it going with all of you? I spent a lot time working on my latest creation and I think using my acrylic cube as a direct die this will work. Without a lot of talk I'd just like to post my pics and get your advice. I did get a GREAT connection for plastic I got a bunch of cubes and other related stuff.
Here's the pics mainly my bong / fishtank......you have to see see this thing work......
Pic 1
Tank with bong on top

[Pepsi]

This is a look at the bong when the pump fires up.

[Pepsi]

opps here's the pic

[Pepsi]

More Speed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pepsi]

The Twister

[Pepsi]

Below the twister tank a spray

[Diggrr]

Don't use glitter in the water Pepsi, it's solid flakes of plastic that can kill your pump.

You can get dye-lite from www.caseetc.com. I've seen people asking about tracer dye from the auto parts store, but don't know how they got on with it. Use a black light (UV. light), neon style or cold cathode tube style works great. You can use a regular blacklight in your fishtank.

That E.L. Sheeting stuff sounds too cool on that clear waterblock...great idea. I thought about drilling the same size holes as an LED and using the clear glue to glue them into the holes. The glue should make the LED's all but disapear in the acrylic, that is until you light em up.

Rock on, and post more pics man!

*edit* cool vortex! You were posting while I was writing.

[MiseryQ]

:D...

What the heck is that?!?

How did you create that "waterspout"?!? Did you put the return line on an angle in the cylinder?!?

Do you have the two fans mounted yet? I did'nt see them in the pic...

[Pepsi]

Below the spray from the twister tank a waterfall. The fans aren't shown in the pics. It does the job and to tell the truth when it's running it's really hard not to look at it.
So I hope you like my latest creation believe it or not there's another one in the works that makes this look..........
Temps on the Twister Tank......not bad one fan running I can stay 10 degrees below room temp at the processor 15 to 18 over coolant temp. Later Guys
Pepsi

[MiseryQ]

Nice... What kind of sound does it make?!?

I'm already over my bong... Sounds like someone taking a shower... Or taking something else...

[Pepsi]

Ah yea glitter + pump = dead ............................you are correct. I can prove it.
Pepsi
BTW before the pump croaked the glitter told me a good story..it was worth it to see the flow or I should say to see the voids.

[Pepsi]

Sounds like a shower nice and quiet really pleasant actually.
Pepsi

[Diggrr]

Pepsi, sorry I didn't catch you in time. The death of a good pump is a sad sad thing.

MiseryQ, to quiet down the bong splashing, you could fold an 8-9 inch disk of window screen into a cone shape and wedge it into the bong above the fan inlet. This lets the air flow in fine, but pushes alot of the water against the sidewalls after the fan has done most of it's cooling. Place the cone's point upward. It worked good in mine, and I didn't have to pee so much.:D

[Pepsi]

Ok before I get slammed w/ questions.......which is ok. Here's the deal. Just a quick list. Fish tank 5.5 gal. Pump 450 GPH (ah you are thinking). A large acrylic cylinder 8" tall. The return from the processor is weird looking thing I made from 3/4" acrylic tubing ...I heated it up and bent it to create the twister when the water entered the top tank (the real secret is the size of the hole at the bottom of the twister tank).. That took a little time to figure out basically trial and error. Red that's just food coloring nothing radioactive ......in the water. So that's it .....Oh fans ah I'll post those pics tomorrow reason being the trick one is still being made . I should have it by noon. I will see ya later.
Pepsi

[pudgy-duck]

Pepsi....you are somethin' else.....lol
What does your family unit think of all this...more lol.
Our dog is kinda fascinated by my bucket bong, I think it's the noise. If you have a dog, I can only imagine what the heck is going through his mind!

O.K. I've seen the show, now let's cut to the chase and talk about the serious stuff. What did you do with the water block this time? What did you choose to bond the cpu to the water block, epoxy again? Have you measured your water flow rate? I am sure my water flow rate is less than yours, but we got almost identical temps. So, perhaps any water flow above 120 gph may have diminishing returns? Other than the quality of your vortex of course. I imagine it takes a killer pump to do the vortex. This question has come up on another thread. UserName says water contacts the entire top of his cpu, I assume you have only the die's surface wet again? That's not quite 20 questions, but I got to go. Catch Ya Later, Gator.

Pudge

[Pepsi]

Hey PD,
My family thinks I'm nuts. I have no pets. My friends think it's totally cool. I attached a pic of the new cube in progress. The inlets and outlets are 3/4" clear acrylic tubing once clear of the MoBo they shrink to 1/2" vinyl. I have not tested my new cube this is the third one I have made. The others would not work well too restrictive. I am going for the most flow I can get hopefully the numbers will be good. I should have it done today. I am cooling the entire top of the chip it's eaiser. I coat the entire top except the core w/ epoxy. I'll take a couple of pics as I assemble this one so you can see the whole process. Got to go.
Pepsi

[UserName]

Do you really have to coat the top of the chip with epoxy? I have never done it and i never thought it would harm it. I thought it would reduce the cooling.

I think this should go in the cool hall of fame. And if there ain't one we should have Joe make one for this.

Still need to get us pick with the light on it. And some other views of the tank. Put some lights in the tank and darken the room...

This is beyone overclocking, its art.

[pudgy-duck]

Pepsi....I've got it!!!!
You need to drain and flush the entire system. Install a spigot on the side of the aquarium, at the bottom. Mix up 5 gallons of Margaritas, dump it in, turn on the computer, cool it down, and Hey..........LAN PARTY TIME!!!!!

But seriously folks. I did the same. The entire top of the cpu is inside the water block, except where the chamber walls attach at the outside edges. Then I covered everything with epoxy except the die's surface. So actually the water never touches the surface mount components, only the die gets wet. If I understand UserName correctly, the entire surface of his cpu is wet, including the surface mount components. If he has a T-bird, I am amazed that it actually works. But what do I know.

Now here is where it gets interesting. In my research I have found out that, as best as I can determine, most consumer epoxies are polyester epoxies. Mainly because they are cheaper to make. When I researched at boat building web sites, I discovered they don't use polyester epoxies in boat building because polyester epoxies do NOT stand up to long term exposure to water! Boat builders use marine epoxy, which is a pure epoxy with no polyesters in them. Problem is, Marine epoxy is much more expensive, hard to obtain, and so far the smallest lot I have found to buy is a 40 ounce "Trial" size for $30+.

I stumbled onto a web site for RC Airplane modelers. The fuel they use is nasty, and eats up polyester epoxy. According to what I read there, if it doesn't specifically say marine epoxy then it is probably polyester epoxy. They were looking hi and lo for a source of marine epoxy without having to buy 55 gal drums of it.

I now envision, six months down the road, my water block coming apart at the seams!

Pudge

[Pepsi]

Hey UN,
Humm lights well to tell the truth I did get the thing to work and got worried about having 110 so close to the processor who knows what that would have done (probably open a blackhole and fold me into outerspace). So that little idea is on hold. Coating the chip I do it to ease work involved getting my cube attached to the chip. I don't cover the die and I do it to waterproof the other parts of the top of the chip. I do think to some degree it has to help cooling though maybe not much I don't know. Art.. to a certain point I think if I get my prototypes working it might be worth going into production. The next one planned will go like this. Now that I have cracked the secret of creating that wild looking twister I plan to build several different sizes without the fishtank as the res. The tubing the big stuff is really expensive 30 to 100 bucks a foot in the range of sizes I need to finish the next prototype. The pump will probably be in the 650 to 900 GPH range, also expensive. What I want in the end for myself is a 5 to 6 tall cylinder 12" diameter the pump is housed in the bottom 2' of the cylinder so what I am saying is there will be a floor where the twister drains into the bottom chamber. With a big enough pump it should work. Once all that reaches the computer it can be split off to cool several items. That's a another nice feature of using the acrylic it's pretty easy to cut, bend, drill whatever to fit say a chipset heat sink or what ever. So as you see I am totally obcesssed with this idea. Think of it a 4 foot tall twister in a 12" cylinder the surface area would be awesome. One fan on top blows air down the twister into the res where the pump sits. What's kind of cool is when that thing is going you can look right through it, it's .........freaky to watch the run. I mean talk about a cool high tech look. I'll tell ya what if I had the finances it'd be done. If anyone has a few extra bucks let me know I'll build a Twister bong for ya. So right now I got the mini version running I'll take a ton of pics and up em tonight.
Stay Cool Guys;)
Pepsi
another look just for you UN

[UserName]

You guys arent using a lot of pressure. Why dont you silicone the block on. Thats what this (http://www.agaweb.com/coolcpu/build.htm#2)guy did. For belt and suspenders protection you could also clamp/bolt it on.

I think EPOXY is way overkill. But then again i like overkill. you ever hunt ants with a sledgehammer? Not aunts but ants.

[UserName]

You must really sand that block as i don't see any BUMPs on it.

[Pepsi]

Yes the block is wetsanded starting with 220 finishing with 600. It actually takes 10 to 20 minutes not too bad. Later on I'll post pics of the whole process if anyone is interested. Here's a shot of something all of you will like. I got my new fan yesterday. It's a 1/70th horsepower, 600 CFM. It looks like a little turbo charger and noise wise not as loud as the 105 CFM Sunon I have. The setup I have in the pic was just for play I am building a rig to hold it and the problem I have is the thing sucks like a vaccuum cleaner as well as blows a serious wind out the exhaust. I have decided to pull air from the tank and process it right back to the mouth of the Twister Tank. It seems to work good in testing. I had a water temp of 15.6 C testing. I fired the thing up and in a just a few minutes the temp was dropping a degree every minute or so. The fan a little pricey 180$. The other prob is the fan motor gets fairly hot I had to build a little return to cool it. I have been too busy to have much time to work on this thing, but hopefully it will be up and running tonight. The pic at the bottom left is the tube into the twister tank kind of hard to see so I drew a line around it .
Stay Cool Guys
Pepsi

[Pepsi]

I had some requests for more pics here are a few of the latest changes. The cube is redone with 3/4" acrylic tubing the bong has a major changes as far as the fan placement ect. as soon as I scrape together the cash I'll am going to build the BIG ONE. Maybe a month or so. I took UN's advice and siliconed the chip on this time. Even still the epox is easy to undo with heat so I guess I'll find out how hard RTV comes off with heat on the next remod.
The rest well I guess I'll leak test for 24 hours and well if it don't drip we'll try out the theory of moving a mass of water as opposed to the little 1/4" tubes in the first try.
If by chance anybody is sick of this thread and my stupid experiments let me know. I by no means am trying to grandstand my junk.......To be perfectly honest this is nothing compared to the RC planes and boats I have designed........ some things work some are junk. I have to say as long as I am going to ramble I would have quit this project without the support of this forum's staff and members. The converted Orb/Fridge Project would have killed me. Enough of that I think all you guys are great. I wish that at least one person seeing what we try to do here has decided to try to think out of the box risk it all and experiment with his or her's idea of how it should be done. After all this is why we come to this forum. To learn, to inspire, to think what if......I tried this. Who knows it might just work. Bla bla bla here's the pics.
Stay Cool Guys and Girls
Pepsi

[Pepsi]

Next

[Pepsi]

Next Pic

[Pepsi]

The Tank Set Up soon to be changed........

[Pepsi]

One with everything running

[Pepsi]

I finally finised my setup here's a couple of pics. The Twister Tank sits 5 feet above the res which is under my desk. I used a piece of 3 inch acrylic tube to go from the Twister to the res the fans are all under the desk (batteries on the camera died before I got a shot). With the fans running I can get 10 degree F drop from room temp not too bad I guess. I added UV dye to the water just for looks the pics don't do it justice. Everything lights up bright green. The dye was a bit tricky to track down if you ever decide to use this stuff don't be decieved a few drops will treat 10 gallons of water. I got a one ounce bottle for 7.00$ it should last me a year. It's called Dye-Light leak detector tracer dye / coolant. Made for obviously car coolant, but other than looks it did help me track down some phantom leaks you could have never seen with normal light. For example my temp sensor epoxed to the chip had a leak. On one of the leads the coolant had found it's way in between the wire and the covering. After a 24 hour leak test I had a drop that was forming on the leads. It was about to drive me crazy untill I put in the dye. The stuff is made my Spectronics Corporation / Tracer Products Division. I'm sure they have a website. So other than looks this stuff could really help. Sorry the pics are so bad.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Pepsi]

Top

[UserName]

i cant see from you setup how fresh air gets to the water for the bong to work.

Love to see thoes pics when you get them.

Guess you were posting as i was.

Man thats awsome.

[Pepsi]

Tube and lines sorry the flash ruined most of the shots.

[Pepsi]

Hey UN I just took those 5 min ago :D The fans are under the desk. Camera died:mad:

[UserName]

so thats your new bong in that last shot?

[Pepsi]

Yea Imagine this.... The twister tank sits on a shelf at 6 feet off the floor it has a 4 inch hole in it (the shelf) The Twister tank is glued to the 3 inch clear acrylic tube that runs to the floor and the res / fans. The twister sat on the fish tank just for testing now it's doing what I wanted (not sitting on the fish tank) it's kind of odd looking a few books around it you have no clue what it is or does the rest is totally hidden unless I choose to expose it. Humm more pics are needed.. I guess I did not explain the second pic is the LOWER section of the Twister above OOPs
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[MiseryQ]

So what actualy cools the water is it the Twister Tank or the pipe to the resv under the desk...

[Trieber]

What advantages do you gte from using a bong cooler? Are there any differences to a bong and a regular watercooled system? The idea of a bong is somewhat new to me.. How would I go about reading and learning about em? Is there a site on them I can check out? Looks like a good project to try... could probably go find some desperate addict that would sell me his right arm and bong for some cash hahaha...

But seriously, what are the advantages\disadvantages and specs of bong coolers? Or are they just cool looking?

[Pepsi]

Misery Q,
Look up a few posts I have a pic of the fan that does the work the ducting is a little different. It moves a ton of air across the lower 2 feet of the bong as well as the tank. I did place a fan on the top of the Twister Tank but it really did not do much but make noise. It's hard to explain but the Twister moves so much water so fast by it'self it cools with no fans. I know you don't believe this but say I have 80 F tank temp if I place a temp probe into the very edge of the Twister it's 15 to 20 F BELOW my tank temp. I can't explain it, but that's the facts.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[UserName]

Bong 1.0 (http://www.overclockers.com/articles389/)

[Stick00]

hey pepsi looks good man.well did u ever come up with final temps...>>>>>>idle?>load?

[UserName]

hey pepsi i would love to see pics of that bong. the swirl is enough to cool it without a fan? you could do a write up and have joe post it. near totaly silent below ambient cooling.

and purdy too

VERY VERY cool

[dream caster]

just AMAZING!

and a hint: I think there is one reason the fan over the swirl did not help. It looks that you were taking air from the tank; if that's right then air would be moisture saturated and would not not be useful for evaporative cooling. Besides that if you have air and water in countercurrent you maximize the evaporative cooling effect.

Also I'm very interested in that bong without fan.

[Pepsi]

Hey Guys,
It's possible I could write a little artical...You were asking about running temps to be perfectly honest my one gig Duron crapped out during the last reset on the last cube. CRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPP!:mad: Thus I have NO hard data. CCCCCCCCCCCRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAPPPPPPPP! So the last few days I've just ignored the thing. There is a new a chip in the works all I have left is my 1400 and I'm really ambivalent about installing it. I'd rather take the cash and start on a larger version of the Twister tank. I think I can get something in the nature of a 18 to 24 inch tall Twister going. But that depends on a bunch of factors that I have to guess at. I'll keep ya posted once I get temps on this prototype till then it's not much more than a desk toy, but I do believe it will work.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[dream caster]

:(
It's a pity :(

[Magik]

I want to see an article on how to make that twister tank, or a link with ideas or something. Its really badass!

[Arkamedies]

Please pardon this bump. But Pepsi has done a great job here and I would like more folks to see it while we wait for him to be able to post temps and such.

I really love the small bits of innovation added to a proven system. Great work and thanks for being so on top of keeping us involved during the whole thing!

[Pepsi]

AH Bump accepted....
I am almost embarrassed to come look at this thread I started weeks ago. It seems that I am going to have to do one of two things install my 1400 and risk blowing it up and buy an 1800 to upgrade. Invention is the mother of all empty pockets. I have killed and destroyed so many great parts building this contraption I am past the point of no return. To quit and take my lumps now means basically I have failed and wasted hundreds of dollars. To go on and spend a another two hundred to finish it means I will will be in the nuthouse if something else goes wrong, or I will finally not be haunted by these fleeting visions of success.
Last night I had the most incredible set of events. I decided to test just the bong and Twister tank against room temp air to see if it would cool w/one fan. The setup is a big pain in the a**. The Twister tank believe it or not has to be balanced, or it starts to generate this wave that reciprocates around and around like a Hoola Hoop. I found a rather clever way of doing this with two ordinary marbles, you know the kind kids play with. If the tank is not balanced the temps are crap. It's like the thing has a rhythm, and that rhythm depends on a bunch of factors; tank size, pump size........bla bla. Once I got the rhythm working (I know this sounds like a load......If I was reading this ......that's what I'd think) and the tank doing it's thing I saw the most amazing temps at one time I was 24 F below room temp (remember I have a huge, but very quiet fan on this thing)( look up a few posts there are pics). If I changed anything the slightest I was back to a 10 degree F drop from room air. I messed with it till 1 am about the time was ready to quit all H E double hockey sticks broke loose. I had the res on the floor (I'm testing in my kitchen) all 5 foot of bong standing straight up with the Twister tank perched on top like a crowsnest on a sail boat mast. The bong was clamped to a chair rather well I thought ..........the whole mess came down CRASH!!!!!!!!!!! I about ****ed myself....the fan ended up in the res (thank God for GFI's). End the end my tank was the only thing that suffered damage, (cheap fish tank shattered to bits) the worst part was cleaning up the 5 gallons of water on the floor. The Twister Tank took a hit and rather than fixing it I went out and got the size I really wanted..... very big. I also increased the size of the bong from 3 inch to 4 inch tubing. As I write the glue is drying on the new extra large Twister Tank. For anyone who thinks that they might want to try this the cost of materials will kill you. For example I bought one 12 inch tall cylinder 12 inches in diameter, just the cylinder was 50 bucks the top and the bottom circles were 16 bucks each. That's a chunk of change. When I finally got out of the plastics shop I dropped a buck fourty. I bought the stuff to build the HD cooler as well as the case cooler. Wait till you see this stuff. So either way bump this thread if you want to keep posted on my continued insanity. I don't plan on posting much more on this unless asked. It stinks I don't have hard data for temps yet, but in time I will. It seems like everytime get in a hurry on this something takes a dump and costs me another buck or two. So I guess in order not to clog up the forum with continued posts (I don't know how long a thread can go? )( I guess it's up to the moderators ?) I can be emailed @ pebsworth@hotmail.com for redundunt questions or post here I guess. I don't mind. I wouldn't feel so bad but the fact is I have nothing going but a cute toy untill I get up the nerve to attach it to another chip. BTW I have killed 3 processors doing this. All were different reasons. Last time was a glue failure the 24 hour leak test turned it into jelly. Silicone seems to be the way to go, but I could be wrong.
So that's the way it's going here for now. Thanks for interest it seems to make it all worth while. Take it easy guys.
Stay Cool
Pepsi;)

[Arkamedies]

Thanks Pepsi, I hope you get it all going well and that you some day get the urge to hook it to another chip (and it doesn't kill it)

Great work and keep up the experimenting!



it's all good....:cool:

[Magik]

Definately keep us posted on what you are doing. Ive been wondering about direct die cooling since i saw it on spodes abode a long time ago. Also, can you point us to any links on how to make that twister tank or anything that would be helpfull in making it? Just the theory?
Thanks
-Magik

[Angry]

And I thought when i saw a 1.4 being cooled by dry ice was wicked...

That is just plain SWEEET!!

Good job and good luck.

[Pepsi]

Magik,
Sorry there are no links this idea came out my head (no comments plz :D ) Just today I went and got the rest of the parts to finish the final design. I will post pics of this for you it's pretty wild. The tower/ bong is 5 feet tall and has a huge Twister on top I had to get a 650 GPH pump just to make it work. The entire thing is clear acrylic. It is free standing and is over 6 feet tall when assembled. Right now I am thinking that the first one of these I build I am going to sell to help defray the costs of testing.
I bascially just experimented untill I got the thing to work right. AGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG !
It's driving me nuts just to get it OL. Just wait for the pics guys it's .................nuts.
BTW no fans.................

[Arkamedies]

Okay, Pepsi, it has been 14 minutes... where are the pics?

Come on! stop holding out on us you TEASE!!!

Quote: I'm bigger than you! I'm higher up on the food chain! (alter quote:) Get them pics in this forum! :eek:




AND YES I DO HAVE A LIFE!!! It is on layaway at K-Mart, only two more payments to go! :cool:

[buffhr]

bump for a thread ive been following silently and fell the sudden need to Congradulate pepsi on all his efforst and dedication on this. :)

[Pepsi]

I have finally finished this project and solved the mystery of the Twister Bong. Right now I'm charging the batteries on the camera and cleaning up the new proto type (got to get her looking good for you guys). The work was worth it and I think (that's when I get into trouble) this concept has decent merit with the right parts anyone can do this and loose 15 to 20 degrees from ambient temps (up to a point) with no fans at all. But I could be wrong ....never gamble unless you are willing to take the risks and drop the bucks. This project WAS unbeilevably EXPENSIVE. Reason being it's 50% computer cooling 50% eyecandy. The clear acrylic is diffcult at best to work with and just *^$*$ expensive.
I'll get going on the pics there are going to be a bunch after all it was a big project. I'll try to be as clear as I can with each pic and plently of details. I plan to possibly try sell my concept with that said the use of my design is free to all as long as it's just for you. Sorry I'm not trying to be an ass I just want to share something with the forum and not see it elsewhere on the internet. Plz be cool to me as I have to you. Enough said I'm off to get things going.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Pepsi]

Here she is guys all 5 foot 10 inches. This is my free standing prototype ......cute eh?

[Pepsi]

Here's a look from the side

[Pepsi]

This prototype has three parts I call them the tank, the table, and the bong.

[Pepsi]

The tank is 1/4 plex sides and bottom and holds exactly one cubic foot of water. I did that way for testing and size it's easy to figure pump output with the lift.

[Pepsi]

This part I call the table because it looks like a table. It's purpose is to support the bong and it's weight. It's legs fit neatly into the 12" square tank. Also it's the most fun part to make because anything goes here as long as it has a hole in it to hold up the bong. My table is a total of 3/4" inch thick. The legs are 2" dia and have floors in them ( sealed ) I plan to put either UV dye or something just for fun.

[Pepsi]

A look at the bottom

[Pepsi]

This is a look at the table top the small cylinder there does two things, a place to fill up and the second Twister runs there.

[Pepsi]

Here's everything setup.

[Pepsi]

A shot of start up the Twister is building pressure.

[Pepsi]

Here she is at full blast. The two little red things you see are bubble levels the tower has to be plumb to work right.

[Pepsi]

Here's a look at Twister in motion from the top.

[Pepsi]

Well there it is. What is it well after watching it and playing with it really is nothing more than an air compressor. The secret of the twister is it compresses air into the tubing below. Once the Twister reaches full speed it compresses more air into the tube below than it can handle seeing how liquids don't compress the air is pushed back up to the top. So pressure builds and air starts to rise up to the bottom of the Twister where all of a sudden it's slammed back down into the tank. The result is lots of spray/ air movment = cooling. The process to get one of these to work is not hard just lots of trial and error, and hey if it don't cool good make a lamp out of it. Ten million things made it work right: the size of the pump dictates everything. I have a 450GPH I modded to 650. The number one thing to make it work was the SIZE of the hole in the tank the Twister drained into. Too big no spin too small overflow or really rotton results. How I got to the point I did was trial and error once that was over I found an easy way to figure it out without too much trouble. I also noticed when things were not right it was really loud splashing a lot and just generally out of sync. When things are going right it's pretty quiet. The designs and sizes are really what you can dream up and hey if you had a big enough pump there are no limits. And as usuall I have spent all my time on this and still have not gotten it hooked up to my cube, but I know it cools water so that is not an issue. Granted once heat starts to build in the tank that will get interesting. But......before I go there I'm off to start my building my case cooler and HD cooler. Ah yep it's all clear plex too. So everybody take it easy and stay cool.
Pepsi:cool:

[PC Guy]

Pepsi, you are the craziest, most extreme water-cooling overclocker I have ever encountered. I'm doing a baisc little WC project, but you have inspired me to make it extreme and never let it rest. You have my respect. That may not seem like much, but those who know me understand how hard it is to earn my respect. YOU ROCK!

[MiseryQ]

Those pictures make everything clearer that the first set...

That's really a nice piece of work...

Gotta see some pics with the UV dye in it...

[Pepsi]

PC Guy,
Thanks really...your too kind.
:)
MG,
I was thinking the same thing, and really to look at pics of it do nothing for you it's really kind hard to put into words what the thing is like. Most people just look at it and think.........where's the guys in the white coats...........
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[MiseryQ]

Pics do it no justice huh?!?

I'm bringing my T-bird, waterblock and six pac... Should I head west or south?!?

[IFMU]

Ok Pepsi, let me say a few things here.

First off, I remember a few months back I first saw you and told yea that I loved your name, I am a hard core Pepsi fanatic !:D!
Second off, let me tell you now, this is freakin utterly awesome... I mean truly a work of art.
Third off, I can tell you that the mods and skip himself would not delete this thread as it stands. There is no reason to. It is holding up the the exact reasons that this forum is here, extreme computer freaks sharing what they love to do.
Forth off, I for one am going to ask you to keep posting any kind of update to your setup there here, not in emails. I missed this thread for some time now and sat here and read every post. And am glad I did, definate insperation here.
Please, keep us updated on anything new you discover, think that might work or just want to show it off!~!
Now when you do get around to buying that new CPU let us know and get some temps up for us. But until then, just keep us going with all of that.... Very awesome setup man, truly insperational!~!

You have earned my respect there man, that is just too intense, If your ever in Kansas, let me know! All the rounds for the night are on me!

IFMU

*edit* omg it took me an hour to read this whole thread!~! lmao... kewl.. Id do it again too!~!

[JFettig]

a way you could make your block look sweet is put a led in it like i did with one of mine, but it filed becasue the glue sucked and i really couldnt redo it....so i made my popcan block, but ill post a pic of what i looked like with the led in it

[Pepsi]

LIghts ah yea I thought about that. Mainly neon, but I don't know if there would be any interference...Kansas eh....I live directly North of you in Iowa same applies here if you ever get to my neck of the woods. New ideas.....whew I found an 18" diameter clear spere it's going to get some work. I only have the one so I need to think out what to do with it. Probably brew my own beer in it ..my family is getting a little tired of my experimenting (I might have to get me a better place to work other than the dining room)(Ican't understand why she gets so ticked at me) I have immassed a huge collection of every size shape in plastic. I buy what I can afford or what looks like it could be used. I didn't really get into a lot details about the fluid mechainics that go on in the top cylinder. I have some books coming I am going to read the subject is facinating to me. One thing I did not mention is the Twister Tank nozzle has a large role in how well it will spin I made mine adjustable for entry angle and height. It's easily done by not cranking the fittings down (plus if you do that you'll crack the cylinder). Here's a look. This version is nothing more than 5/8" vinal tubing a trick acrylic one can be made also.
Got to go
Stay Cool
Pepsi:cool:

[Magik]

Drool..... Man, normally im a lurker (notice my stars? :P ) but every now and then something inspires me to post and damn this is awsome. You gotta keep up the good work, its incredible! Keep doing what you do and ignore the family and wife :rolleyes:

-Magik

edit: Oh yea, I almost forgot. I vote that Pepsi gets a title for this!
edit 2: Do they do that here? :p

[Pepsi]

Magik....
A title........yea head nut.

[Arkamedies]

:D I am amazed:D Utterly amazed. I love innovation in any and all forms and for this you truely take the cake!

I have followed this thread since day one because I am getting ready to start on my water cooling project. Now you have inspired me, as well as any water cooler who reads this thread!

As per your invitation, I am going to use your idea for the "twister", but I am going to attempt to "individualize it" so as not to steal the entire original, besides, you deserve to have the one of a kind original. You did all the work. You did a wonderful job and I am proud to be a member of the same forum as innovators such as yourself.

I would ask that your title be changed to Dr. Twister or Master of Twisters! To give recognition to you for what you have done. That way, no matter who does it in the future, everyone will know that you made it first!

Great work.:D

[JoeCrappa]

Bravo! trully a work of art! Pepsi, i would LOVE to know your temps. that is an awesome twister-bong. CRAZY. you should write an article for the watercooling section of OC.com! i'm sure you'd win.

[dream caster]

:confused:
A very interesting question (at least for me):

How did you figure out the vortex was sucking and compressing air? (well,any way after you say it, it looks kind of obvious)

[Arkamedies]

May I be the first to congratulate you on your NEW RANK!!!

All hail the MASTER OF TWISTERS!!!!!!

Congratulations!!!!!! Now you will forever be known as the original!!!!:D :beer:

[IFMU]

Ah that rocks... way to go Pepsi!~! The Master of Twisters... lol.. very kewl...

[Silversinksam]

Amazing Job!! At a Loss for words at the moment


hail the MASTER OF TWISTERS!!!!!!


If Overclockers.com gave medals for a job well done, I'd pin it on you Myself
:burn:

[IFMU]

Man, whatta I gotta do to get a special name? lol...

Again, great work man - truly...

[Pepsi]

LOL Thanks Guys!
I'm gone for one day and got a promotion.........ah (I'm still cracking up) Dream Caster asked how did I know it was sucking...ah that was really easy when I was finishing up this prototype I was going to put a top on the twister cylinder possibly for a fan mount. I noticed with the thing running if you cover the top it will suck the plastic to the cylinder like a vacuum cleaner. I did not mention this but covering the top in any way will hurt your performance.
The last few days I been testing pumps first was my Danner 650 mag Drive input and output 3/4". One thing this large of a bong depends on moving a huge amount of water to keep that top cylinder full. The Danner did pretty it well it would keep one half of a cubic water of water in the top cylinder. Question for you genuises how many gallons of water does one cubic foot hold? (7.49). Anyway I wanted to really move lots of water the higher GPH pumps are really expensive, so I decided to look else where. This what I have come up with.
Opps have to reboot BRB.

[Pepsi]

Anyway sorry about that.
Back to pumps. I wanted a pump that would give me the most for my money. It had to be small an used to working in the worst conditions possible. Then it hit me a washing machine PUMP? I called my buddy that does appliance repairs and asked him about it within 2 hours I had a pump out of a new Whirlpool (figures heheh) it was replaced because it had sucked up something or the other. I tore it apart and cleaned it up the install to the Twister Bong was fairly easy have a look.

[Pepsi]

and one more. These pumps are about 7 " long and 3" tall I couldn't get the ratings though but I figure it's about 1200 GPH. Plus they run as quite as a Danner. Plus here's the good part they cost 34 bucks! The motor is 110 watt she gets a little warm but that really has not seemed to bother it at all.

[Pepsi]

I also picked up a new GE pump the pump cover and impeller are very different than the Whirlpool. The Whirlpool pump I am running a 24 hour test so far it's about 20 hours into the test and no probs at all. The only thing I saw was that these pumps could easily be modded to have ballbearings instead of the bronze bushings that would help a lot with the heat issue I think. The inlets and outlets are 1.25" inside dia. Here's a look at the GE pump.

[Pepsi]

Here's another look from the top. I like the lay out of both pumps the whirlpool was very easy to work with the GE pump looks as though it could be easy also. 34 bucks man and these things really move the water. Funny thing I plugged in Whirlpool one connection on top was a little loose it blew off and blasted a gallon of water all over the kitchen before I could get it shut down like 5 seconds maybe. Well that's it for useless news from Twister Headquarters.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[dream caster]

I think there is one difference with aquarium pumps and washing machine pumps :aquarium pumps are made for continuos work and washing machine pumps only work for a few minutes and stop , so they may not last long if they work 24/7.

[Pepsi]

This is possibly true, but who says........right ? The Whirlpool has ran for over 24 hours no probs. I did a little flow test the pumps were about equal the Whirlpool came in at 1721GPH and the GE came in at 1816GPH the latter could be because it's brand new I suspect. Still though even if there was breakdown set your alarm to shut down for the price of these and the water they move .......(5.45 gallons in 18 seconds). Heck you could even set up a system if one failed the other would kick on for a whole 70 bucks! Plus water the lawn and wash your car at the same time. Too bad street pressure is not as good. Anyway ...got to go ...ah thanks for the title .....
Stay Cool
Pepsi
Flow rate = Volume moved timed (gallons) X 60 / time to move = Gallons Per Hour. I skipped friction bla bla bla ....they were equal tests same everything.

[dream caster]

you know; i 've planning an evaporative cooler for the condenser of a freon cooling system several months (well, not only the evaporative cooler , everything) and it seems that i'll be using
the Vortex Cooler in a slightly different version, for me the final stage in choosing is --I say-- if it makes click something inside me and this design sure does.
I will consider washing machine pumps but probably i will have to use a submerged pump.
i feel very happy aboutyou posting this.

[Pepsi]

Thanks if these were submersable pumps( means they don't like being wet causes bad things to happen) they'd be quite a lot more money, but I can tell you that I soaked mine a couple of times (not recomended by any means). I am sure I am not the first one to think of this. Anyone out there ever tried this?
Stay Cool
Pepsi
This pump thing I think it's time for a new thread after all how hard can it be to make? One small outboard boat engine a 55 gallon PVC drum some tubing we could work with that.

[Arkamedies]

OUTBOARD MOTOR!!?? LOL :D Oh My!

LOL... some people have way more time on their handds than is mentally a good thing! LOL.

But I want to see the results! When not cooling your system you could always go fishing! LOL

Great work, have fun... as if I have to tell you to?

[Pepsi]

Arkamedies,
If I were to tell you the truth I'd agree. But I can't share that. Clue for you since shortly after September 11th I have become Mr. Mom (3 kids). Nap time is a good thing....peace and quiet ..........= time to experiment. Thank God I usually get the mess cleaned up before she gets home. For some reason everytime she gets home from work shë says "AGH!!!!! it looks like a tornado's been through here". NS.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Magik]

Originally posted by JoeCrappa
you should write an article for the watercooling section of OC.com! i'm sure you'd win.

Ya know, you could re-coup (sp?) some of the losses that way! :)

[dream caster]

Originally posted by JoeCrappa
you should write an article for the watercooling section of OC.com! i'm sure you'd win.


Ya know, you could re-coup (sp?) some of the losses that way!

I agree.

[Pepsi]

Man I thought I was seeing double. God forbid I wrote an artical it'd be never ending like this thread. And you forget the fact that this has never been tested. I have had three attempts for Direct Contact with this. All Failed due to either materials or methods. I really can't write .......this is just a good way to spend my time. This site is hands down AWESOME, and all of you are the kind of people I'd really like to sit down and have a decent conversation with. But in the mean time look at it this way....if you've been following this thread it's good cheap entertainment, and it keeps me busy.
Stay Cool
Pepsi T.M.T
P.S. .....I'm still cracking up ........Yea the next time a twister comes around my way I'm hiding in the basement...

[UserName]

How much? Really how much?

I WANT ONE

[Pepsi]

Pump...... 34 bucks look at the Twister a 1721 GPH pump makes..
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[UserName]

How much for the TWISTER?

The whole setup.

[Arkamedies]

I can't help but be excited to see this thing in action. I can't wait till you post some stats on how it did. And ya know what? Even if it does as well or just a bit better than a regular bong or water cooling system, you have still created a work of art and I would be proud to have it in my system.

Ya did good man..... be as happy about it as we are! :D

[Magik]

I mean an article on the bong, or atleast some instructions, pictures, anything. If you only want it to stay in the forum, then go for it and post something to this thread.....Your twister is just incredible and I would really love to make one. I could probably buy the crap and figure it out after a while but I would be more comfortable investing that much money with some sort of instructions :rolleyes:

-Magik

[dream caster]

You should try it on waterblock first :
--less risk to your prcessors
--easier to compare to traditional bongs and to radiators

[Pepsi]

Hi Guys,
I did quite a bit of thinking about posting plans or writing an artical about this design. The problem is I think lots of you would waste tons of time and money like I did trying to build the thing and getting it to work right. There are just too many variables. If you are really serious about building one I'd be more than happy to coach you along if need be. What is the other alternative and the cheapest for you is PM me or check out the classified adds. I would of given up on this project months ago without your support. I have a grand total of 12 weeks of testing and building Lord knows how many prototypes. I'd bet if the truth was told I have spent over 2000$ in parts alone just plastic, not computer parts I trashed. But I never gave up from the very first time I spun a Twister I was really hooked. I can basically spin one in a 5 gallon bucket that really kicks butt. I can spin one in just about anything you can think of as long as it is round that is. I tested pump after pump every size and shape of cylinder. So what I decided is to make this and affordable idea for everyone. I realize very few people would spend the money it takes for me to build one of my acrylic creations ( the last prototype the big one I'd take 250 bucks for it just to give you a ballpark on costs)( that's not even what I have into it).
A few people have asked how much it costs to build one. Well what's your budget? If the sky is the limit a bunch, if you are the average guy like me it can be done for under 75$ and be quite impressive. .
See the classifieds I'll sell parts or finished and tested unit. I hope this post isn't too far out of line if it is moderators delete it. I know we aren't to post for sale items here, but I couldn't think of a better way to get the word out. In a sense it kind of bothers me to sell my idea...I love invention I have tons of them and never sold one single idea......they are like children to me, but this one seems a little different. Everyone that has seen the whole process my friends and family agree I am on to something here. I want to continue on with this concept. I think it's at the early stages and with more testing I'll get to the bottom of the Twister Mystery. With all said I have given enough details in this thread you could build one, good luck once you spin your first Twister you will be hooked even after building tons of them one of my favorite things to do is just sit and watch the thing spin and listen to it.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[dream caster]

Can you give us a little more discussion on when and how it spins the right way (without noise and vibration)?
And also, when does it suck more air?
How much flow do they need for a given diameter of vortex and
what hole size do they need?

I see those as the most important issues.
I was planning to build twin vortexs using 1'' thick acrylic bricks
with two 4''holes and holes to form a pipe for water going up and into vortexs, these would form a column about 18''- 20'' high and will be in one of the front corners of computer case, but ill try them first using sewage pipe

P.S. I was writing this at work, but they almost kick me out when labor time is over so I had to finish writing even if ideas were not clearly expressed. I'll post again when i finish a drawing.

[MiseryQ]

Teo questions:

1) how did you reduce that LARGE inlet/outlet to the size hose on the twister?!?

2) I saw a test that someone used on the main page... 50c water, then measured the temp drop over 1 1/2 hours...
That would give a decent indicator of it's cooling(?!?)...

[Magik]

I just had an idea, do you think it would work better with 2 nozzles on the top? maybe not as sensetive or something? Hrm i dont know.....just one of those brain-fart type of things :D

[dream caster]

Originally posted by dream caster
Can you give us a little more discussion on when and how it spins the right way (without noise and vibration)?
And also, when does it suck more air?
How much flow do they need for a given diameter of vortex and
what hole size do they need?

I see those as the most important issues.
I was planning to build twin vortexs using 1'' thick acrylic bricks
with two 4''holes and holes to form a pipe for water going up and into vortexs, these would form a column about 18''- 20'' high and will be in one of the front corners of computer case, but ill try them first using sewage pipe

P.S. I was writing this at work, but they almost kick me out when labor time is over so I had to finish writing even if ideas were not clearly expressed. I'll post again when i finish a drawing.

Have the drawing:

[dream caster]

MiseryQ:
My plan is to have the vortex and the tube that goes down in one piece, both of them the same diameter with a thin piece of acrilic (1/4'' or 1/8'') with a hole in the center in between, and put some kind of spiral in the tube wall so water keeps spinning as it goes down. I would use clear acrilic.

Magik:
it seems to me that type of vortex would be more stable but may have less flow or water speed than one using one water input.

[MiseryQ]

Sorry,,, My questions were for Pepsi...

I think the 50c water might be a good indicator of cooling & those washing machine hose outlets are HUGE...

[Pepsi]

Ok guys ........
Temp drop a test I just did just for you......here's the data.
Total water used in the test 6.23 gallons
Starting temp 88.0 degrees F
Time Expired ...Temp........... Water Evap
0.00............... 88.00
4.49............... 87.00
6.33 ...............86.20
8.30............... 85.80
11.00............. 86.00
14.00..............85.30
18.00 .............84.70
22.00..............84.20
27.15..............83.15
33.00..............84.00
38.14..............83.50
40.00..............81.30
60.00..............81.30 .......... .1577 gal.
120.00............80.00 ........... .3110 gal.


The time is in minutes (duh) the rest is what it did. So guys did it do ok? 7 degrees in one hour with 6 gallons to cool? I don't know I have never benchmarked a bong before.
On to DESIGNS and what not .....first off go buy the biggest baddest pump you can afford. Pressure is easily bled off by reducing tubing size (but friction is increased). The hook up from the bong to computer is limited only by your imagination. It's pretty easy with 1800 GPH (by my test..... could be flawed we shot water out my back window and measured total distance it blasted the crater it made divided by total water used time it took to dump and how many squirrels we could knock out of the tree) .......just kidding.
The placement of the nozzle and size is all related to pump size there is no way I can tell you how to do this. The size of the hole in the bottom of the Twister tank is very important though. This alone will determine the size and cooling potential of your bong. One other thing I found out you will know very quickly if you have got it wrong because it will collect heat in a massive way so fast you will P*** your pants. For example earlier today I was testing my newest ( it has a cool venturi at the bottom of the Twister so water speeds up as it exits......your thinking AH....) the first run I took 70 F water and in 20 min it was 89 degrees F ! I about lost it! My HVAC buddy came over to have a look and we quickly killed my over heating prob. It's two things friction and the laminar motion of the water. The Twister basically fills up. You see a thing spinning and you think I have a pump that moves bla bla... what is happening is just the first few layers of water are going down the tube the rest just sits there and spins, and gets hotter and hotter till it starts to go backwards thus temps build. The new design basically will fill and run for a short time shut down refill and so on over and over thus eliminating this layer of water in the Twister that never moves.
Try this if you want ...go get yourself an empty plastic 5 gallon water bottle the round ones without the handle. A 5 gallon bucket and the pump of your choice. Take the water bottle upside down into the bucket draw water from the bucket to a hole punched in the side of the now top (bottom) of the water bottle. Start the pump and watch the thing play with it.....Make sure you cut out the entire bottom of the water bottle for air flow. This is a great way and cheap to start to understand how this works. Otherwise don't get to creative it'll kill your wallet try the water bottle thing first. Twin Twisters .......humm. The direction of dosen't matter when it is not working right it's really loud this is due to the fact that the outlet for the Twister is not plumb. It is easy to see when it is pulling air the water below will be full of nothing but bubbles like a fish tank bubbler. LOTS OF THEM. Using 2 nozzels will kill half your head pressure one is all you need. The pressurized water injected into the top of the cylinder at the right angle will automatically form a Twister might not be right but it will form then the tuning begins..............I hope this helped.
Stay Cool
Pepsi
Good Luck and really try the water bottle it's cheap.

[JoeCrappa]

wow...did i read that too fast or what. i'm lost. oh well i guess i'll have to read it again. anyway i'll try the twister thing when i am old and have nothing better to do. :D

[MiseryQ]

Here's the charts by Steve Pignato from the article "Nuclear Cooling Tower". I had to resize it to fit the page...

[PC Guy]

hey guys!
i saw a little something on http://www.repairclinic.com
they have all kinds of washing machine parts for all brands
i was looking at a GE pump (item #3223) for $31.65!
3 to 5 day shipping is only $5.95 too!
you can get a brand new pump there for under $38 shipped
pretty cool if you're looking into buying one of these things
i've never thought of using a washing machine pump before
good work, Pepsi
haha, i sound like a salesman:P
catcha later guyz!

[Pepsi]

PC Guy,
Great work! I have been testing these two little pumps and they both kick butt. I have ran both for over 100 hours without a break both did fine. If you get one of these the power they have will freak you out! I'm sold on the Whirlpool Pump only because of the layout of the inlet and outlet. The motors on both pumps are identical. If you get one of these make sure you give it a little ventilation you might even put a little fan on it they do get really warm. As far as testing goes here I have been going a little slow I got a new job so ..... you know how that goes, although the unplanned 3 month vacation was nice.
I have another idea I'm pondering..........., but I haven't even begun to build it yet so .......... just wait and sometime soon I'll post it. On the other hand I located another lab rat. My buddy is upgrading next week for helping him I get his old Athlon ( one gig)(hehehehehehe) he has no clue what I am going to do to it. I still have my 1400 Tbird and it is going to stay safe and sound for now. The same friend I mentioned we have had these little computer wars for years. He buys something as soon as I do to keep up I'm sure lots of you have friends like this. He went out and got 1700 XP I think he is waiting on the MOBO right now. Before he left to go get it he calls bragging to me about his new 1700 MHZ processor he's getting. I let him go on till I could stand it no longer I said well you know that 1700 does not mean what you think it does. I had to burst his bubble. He got it anyway.....at least he was informed about the PR rating first. Well bla bla bla...later guys I'll have some news soon as I get the one gig on line.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Pepsi]

PC Guy,
Hey I did some looking around that site COOOOOOOOOOOOOOL MAAAAAAAAAAAN! I found a ton of pumps. This page has a good selection http://www.repairclinic.com/0080.asp I think what you were looking at was just a pump not pump and motor assembly. BTW I can get anything at this site for HALF of what they sell it for. The little pumps I showed you guys list for 80 to 90 BUCKS! I get them for 36$. It was kind of a Pay it forward type of deal.. (seen the movie?) either way check out these part #s at that site for pumps.
279477
54296
96 (one of my pumps)
53022
775841
339
724
743
408136
768454
409618
Some of this stuff is pump related either way have fun.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[PC Guy]

haha, i feel like an idiot:P
so how do you get these pumps half price?(i've never seen the movie;))

[Pepsi]

PC Guy,
It comes with the territory. I was in new home construction for years I have friends in every trade you can imagine. My two best friends one is an HVAC man the other is into appliance repair. He gets parts at whole sale costs, which is half of the price that you see listed on that website. Believe it or not there is a 100% mark-up on all that stuff. Prob is with that site they don't give you the manfacturers original part # which stinks because he can't get stuff without it. There are two pumps there I have to have. So I'll surf for part #s today.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Magik]

^bump^

[Just shoot]

This might sound like a stupid question, you guys running a bong, this has to put a tremendous amount humidity in the air? Pepsi wrote .311 gallons per hour I beleive, holy sh#@. I live in the upper midwest and that much moisture in my house it would be raining. Heck I wouldn't have to go to work I could start a tropical rain forest. What are you doing to remove moisture? Running dehumidifiers, Ac units !!!! Hell this is a great idea, but putting that much water in the air makes me nervous.

[MiseryQ]

I don't know about anybody else, but for some reason my house is very dry... I only notice the humidity when the door to my computer room is closed...

[Pepsi]

O Man,
That is so funny someone brought that up. I have been running the Twister night and day testing this and that...... ONE night I shut it down my wife was whining turn it back on (she likes the sound and even more so the humidity it kicks out). I've got two new pumps coming tomorrow.......I can't wait to get them on line. I have been testing running the two washing machine pumps night and day the prob was cooling was really going good but the NOISE! Crap you'd of thought I had a 40 foot waterfall in my house! I got to thinking about the jet placement. I had them at the top of the Twister tank I moved them to the bottom so that they are under water now you can hardly hear it run. I have quit testing with the small clear bong I made and have taken two 5 gallon water bottles cut them (top off one and the bottom off the other) and spliced them back together. Kind of UGLY but it works great and I don't CRY everytime I drill a hole in one of them to move things around. The setup takes about ten gallons to fill the Twister ( water bottle version makes one 12 inches across at the top and 24 inches tall very cool!) and it's been going good I'm just about ready to take what I learned from this and scale it down for my PC. BTW Thanks for the bump Magik! I just have not much time to work with it. By this weekend maybe. Later on if I get bored I'll set up the water bottle Twister and shoot a couple of pics for you. Most people see it and look at me like............what the heck is that?
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[JoeCrappa]

does the waterbottle twister actually cool?

[Just shoot]

Pepsi,
This has to be the most creative thing I've ever seen, this gives water cooling a totally new outlook. I've read this article three times know and am so impressed but I have some questions.
How big is the pc based system going to be? You say your wife likes the humidity, we just went out an bought a hole house humidifier (d@#$ this would have been the easiest sales job around). Were abouts do you live midwest, north, south, east, west, not to be nosey but this gives me a idea of what kind of humidity levels I would be comparing? Thanks man not only for the good read and the detail but also for the inspiration to just go the extra step and let the creative juices go wild.

[buffhr]

bump cause im in love with this thing :), and also wanna no how the pump testing is going :)

[Pepsi]

Hey Guys,
The water bottle setup works good. The only problem is that it is so BIG and takes so much water to fill to make it work right I have to have two pumps running it. It's also reached it's limits for cooling with that much water in it. I had one of my HVAC buddies look at it he promptly went out to his work truck and came back with 4 fans he'd pulled out of new furnaces. These are the air rotor type not blades. The motors are all ball bearing, the fan casing is all plastic so moisture is not a problem. They vary from 1/70th HP to 1/25th HP all are 3000 to 3500 RPM. One of them if you had a long enough cord you could blow the leaves off your lawn with it! The one that worked the best is called a Windjammer I believe he told me that it came off either a Lennox or a Hiel furnace. Anyway we put one of the fans on the top of the Twister Tank ( the water bottle has a 10 inch dia hole in the bottom) so that it sucked air up through the middle of the Twister then we took a humidifier filter for a furnace (looks like a 2 inch thick woven aluminium sandwich) wrapped it in a black foam 1/2 inch thick under that we placed a layer of foam about three inches thick that covered the bottom of the tank where the water exits the Twister. For two reasons I was getting a great deal of foam as well as noise from splashing water. Then we punched a hole into the side of the same tank and mounted 2 inch PVC and put another fan so that it blew against the humidifier filter and the water flow into the tank. I figured as long as I was going pump crazy we'd add a fans too. So you're thinking humm now all I have is basically a normal bong just extra large size. I tend to agree but the addition of the fans (BTW I can only run one most of the time blows the water everywhere). I ran a little test with 10 fresh gallons of 115 degree F water. I was below 90 F in a matter of 5 maybe ten minutes and broke in to the seventies in less than 30 minutes with ten gallons of water. The noise level was no worse than the ten fans I had in my PC. As of right now I am chopping at the bit to get my two new pumps sometime today I hope. Using the waterbottle I did find out that if your Twister exits through a funnel with a venturi at the end it acts like rocket nozzel (speeds up the water flow) once I scale all this down I'll use something like that in clear acrylic. It was by total accident I figured this out. The next time you look at one of those 5 gallon water bottles (empty) notice some of them have a section in the neck where the lid crimps on it's a venturi of sorts. I'll tell you this project keeps teaching me something new everyday. It's been setup in the kitchen so long my family has gotten used to the sound and the general idea. They figured out about a month ago I was not ready to quit.
Just Shoot I live in Iowa it's cold here and very dry most winters. Once I get finished goofing around with the things it's going on my 1400 Bird direct contact. I have the materials to make any kind of add on I want HD cooler, case cooler ect. The final version might not even sit in my computer room not sure yet. If by chance I get my new pumps today I'll set up a little pic shoot so you can see this ugly thing. For the time being here's a shot of the new pump.
Stay Cool
Pepsi
P.S. Pump testing I did notice after a couple of hundred hours the washing machine pumps got nearly totally silent with a very slight loss of power. I suppose they got broken in. I pulled them apart and cleaned them yesterday no signs of any wear just like new.

[Magik]

Jeebus!:eek: tell me thats not the pump your using, that thing is a beast! What sorta GPH does it do? Thats pretty cool your wife somewhat 'approves' of the twister now, its gotta be a great conversation starter.

Along the lines of having a large setup w/ those watter bottles your talking about, with a strong enough pump like that you could stick it in a basement or unused room and run some tubing. That would be really cool - possibly complete silence.

I know of the venturi effect and how it works but could you take a picture of what you mean? I dont understand how its working in this case, is the watter sucking air in? That could look pretty cool :D maybe youll have to get a fishtank airpump for the nice tower you have :rolleyes:

-Magik

And keep up the good work!

[Pepsi]

Ah yea it is kind of large. Here's kind of the plan it might be down in the basement, I don't know..........the stupid thing is so much fun to watch going I'd hate to hide it. I wish could post via FTP a little vid of it. It's a hoot. No new pumps today. A new test is going ( I should log these things) The large one does weird things............it will drop 10 to 15 F and HANGGGGGG. Get hot..Get cold.....do nothing.......I moved the stupid thing and it quit working as well as it did an hour before. Near as I can tell if the bottle is not plumb to the Earth's core it will act up. Got to go.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Magik]

Use the big waterbottle ones in the basement and just use the nice looking one as a standalone in a family room or something, just have it recirculate water, it dosn't need to cool anything. :rolleyes:

[DarkArctic]

I just finished reading this entire thread. Whew, tiring but well worth it. Pepsi, I think it's safe to say that what you have done here is inspirational and absolutley amazing. This thread deserves a sticky. Please post some more experiments. Bravo! I'm virtually speechless.

-DarkArctic

[JFettig]

i wanna see pix of all this crazyness! hehe

but i wanna see that big 10 gallon thing.... and whatever else you have!

[Pepsi]

Hey guys,
It's at some point that you start to think that everything you have done was a total waste of time. Hour on hour watching testing and you get to to point that you decide it's time to throw the towel in and quit. At exactly 8:00 pm Central I was there. My satellite system crashed the lastest redo of the original Twister STUNK as well as all of the recent proto types I have built. I was getting temps like 85F after an hour on room temp water (72) this WAS NOT POSSIBLE! I touched the Twister Tank it felt fairly cool, then I jerked the Walmart temp sensor out of the tank and checked it .....everything was good there. It was then I just figured screw it I quit. I shut down the monster fans (10 gallons water) and let the two pumps run by themselves while I went to the fridge to get a brew. I had to let the pumps run to keep the Twister floating otherwise I'd have a flood.......... the res holds 7 gallons the set up takes a lot more to float the 24 to 30 inch Twister. It's big. I sat and drank a couple a beers and went back to hit the AUX pump in the res to drain the water (450 Danner) it has to be done while the thing is running or I have a flood (I think I said that)(i usually open a window and pump the excess outside). I tossed in the chepo temp senor FTHOI it stupid thing had lost 10 F in 30 minutes. I was at that point ready to get a rope a hang myself. Nothing had worked in recent weeks except FORCING tons of air into it. Which was not my design ............. After all this I had thought one thing was for sure...... pressure was the key ..........I was right, and for some stupid reason I got it in my head the Twister sucked air in the top and forced in into the res below.........DOH!!!!!!!!!!! Have you ever seen a Twister on TV (hopefully not in person......at least close up) they SUCK UP EVERYTHING THEY TOUCH! I had all my air flow figured WRONG. I even tested it with my model. RATS!!!!!!!!!!!! I sealed up the res air tight with one vent for the res (2 inch PVC ) out and a adjustable vent at the top of the Twister. Bingo......it pulled air through the res up the Twister and OUT the top (heat rises) temps freaking dropped like brick off the Empire State Building. I was ........................holding the rope in my hand (ready to pull the pin on this project). So knowing what I know now with NO fans I ran my res vent tube out the window into 15F air .....wait I have to go check the temp. BRB..........55.90 F ten gallons started at 8pm now it's 9:33. starting temp 80.....85 I think. Talk about stubbing your toe.......At this point I don't know where to go..........I am just about beat to death........ The waterbottle had a sight redo on the exit venturi it looked really good till the temps got out of control.
I was fooled by the small versions they don't give off enough pressure to tell you what is going on but they worked decent.
SO at last ............on any scale I got the damn thing to work. That was a issue...............
the outside air helps, but you guys put ice in your bongs why can't mine suck cold air. So that's it guys and girls my Twister just sucks........I'm not done testing, but I'm getting there. If you got time try this it's really cool to watch nice and quiet running. I'll clean up this ugly ho I'm testing and post some good pics and temps tomorrow........at least I can get a decent night's sleep now. My wife she was right along when she said YOUR PROJECTS....$#(*. and I think she's right.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[MiseryQ]

It's right when you get to this point you make a break through... Get some sleep and you'll get a new outlook for tommorrow...

[Pepsi]

NO I think it's PARTY TIME !!!!!!!! I'm having a good time watching this go to town. Pics...they are coming as soon as I can, right now I have to get me a beer CHEERS!
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Magik]

wait wait wait, if i read your post right, you make a BREAKTHROUGH, fans DONT help. But your getting awsome temps without them right? I can understand why your angry the fans dont work but still, you cant drop this now! I mean, its working right?

just my .02$

-Magik

[Pepsi]

Yep I got the big one going and as I promised PICS! I got some great shots of my biggest prototype the Water Bottle Twister in action. I have to edit and start my upload give me ten or so.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Pepsi]

Well here she is the big ugly one. She stands 46 inches tall and cranks out a 12 inch dia by 36 inch tall Twister. This one about killed me.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Pepsi]

next

[Pepsi]

Next pic

[Pepsi]

Next Pic

[Pepsi]

Next pic

[Pepsi]

Next pic (Temp F)

[Pepsi]

Last one (tempC)

[Pepsi]

Opps missed a couple.

[Pepsi]

last pic

[Pepsi]

Well there she is. I thinking about making a mpeg. My Mavica will make a short one anyone interested? I'm up for it.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[JFettig]

yah dude! do it!!!! then upload it so we all can download it and see it,

[JFettig]

how did you manage to get them temps, or is it outside air?

cuz it is cold outside and outside mixing with that thing would be cold...

[Pepsi]

Up a couple of posts I said That I was letting the thing pull in air from the outside. Look at the pics the 2" pvc (horz) is going right out the back window.
I'd love to post an MPEG I have my own domain name but the site is not active and it's too much work to get it up for this. Anybody that wants to up some space I'll post ASAP.
Stay Cool
Pepsi
In the mean time I''ll try to aquire some free space.

[JFettig]

i pm'd you i made you some space...

[Pepsi]

Sweettttttttttttt! it's movie time!!!!!!!

I'll post AS soon as you PM me.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Pepsi]

Rats! I have no FTP Proggy's on this computer!
Bummed
Pepsi

[tft]

Sorry about being late on this, but...

a few pages ago you said you modified a pump, and increased its pump rate.

I was just wondering how you did that. That seems like a very useful tweak.
Any advice would be appreciated

[Magik]

Anyone else notice Pepsi's new rank? I like it :)

[JFettig]

Originally posted by Magik
Anyone else notice Pepsi's new rank? I like it :)

hehe i did! its pretty cool!!!

[JoeCrappa]

damn i wish i had a cool rank like that! pepsi is one lucky guy...crazy too!

[Pepsi]

Hey guys,
Ah yea the title is pretty cool. I was a little shocked to say the least. I tried to e-mail those I thought responsible to say thanks I hope it got there.
The pump mod is really not a mod the Danner pumps (I have a 450 I did this to) the motor case is the same size as the 650. I bought the pump front housing and impeller for a 650. swapped out the parts and it made a really big difference. Now wheather it's cheaper to just outright by the 650 I don't know. I bought the 450 thinking it'd be big enough for my needs it was not. I didn't want to buy the 650 because I'd spent the bucks on the 450 this was an easy out for me.
The big Twister project is going to be torn down today (now that I figured it out) I am going to scale down everything as small as I can (desktop models) and see how they work. The big one really taught me some good lessons. First off if you look around there is a million things that would work to do this an be fairly cheap. The washing machine pumps were a stroke of genius. They just flat out kick some a$$. I now have several hundred hours run time on my two they lost some power, now that they are broken in you can just barely hear them run. My wife even made a comment this morning ( she didn't even hear the thing or notice it ). The big Twisters have to have a pretty serious fan to work I'll post some pics of the fans I have been using. These baby's have lots of power and do make quite a bit of noise. The nice thing is like the pumps they can be placed far enough away you won't see or hear them. I'm kind of wound up to get started on the little size. Hopefully it'll go better than the big one. One of the members here is going to be one of the first ones to get one as soon as I get it built. It will probally be in the 4 to 5 gallon range size. I am going to build it run some tests on it and ship it off as soon as possible.
Later today I'll post a few more pics maybe I'll have good enough progress on a small one to post some step by step on it. Most of what you have seen is completed models I'll try to show you how I get one built and working if anyone's interested. The water bottle version is by far the best size. I'd be sweet if you could take one of those stand up cooling rigs for a 5 gallon mod it to cool and pump your water. But I don't think they cool more than a tiny amount of water right below the bottle.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Magik]

Yea, those office coolers dont cool the bottle but you could have it run through the cooling coil or something and out, although i would think it wouldnt be worth it temp wise. *Shrug* Have to try it to find out I guess.

[Pepsi]

Funny you said that I was at Crystal Clear today checking them out.......it's possible... HEHEHEH
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Magik]

Hey, if your really gonna get one and try it i would ask around first. If you really want to get one just try and get a compressor from an used one or something else with a compressor like a fridge or dehumidifier, dont blow too much money on something that might not work. Just my thoughts.

-Magik

[Stick00]

sound like a good idea

[Pepsi]

I agree 100%........expermenting will kill you. But those things (water coolers are around I'm sure you could get one for free if you looked hard enough.
Well in a sense I'm going to cave in a write a little (only in this thread about the next prototype. As I have time I'll post pics and be as detailed as I can about what I am doing and why.
The next step with the Twister Bong was to scale it down to a normal size that most people would be interested in building. This one is what I call my Water Bottle conversion. First I want you to have a look at what I use as far as tools and basic parts to build these. I won't detail a list so look close at the pics. Basically I have taken three water bottles cut them down and joined them together. Two three gallon and one five. The center bottle is the 5 gallon with the top and the bottom cut off and trimmed so the two little 3's fit tight in to it. The bottom three gallon has the entire top cut out, the top makes the Twister Tank. It has holes for the draft in the top (was the bottom) and a trick inlet for the pump. Pics to come.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Pepsi]

What you see here is the the 5 gallon joined to the bottom 3 gallon with the top 3 gallon jug next to it. the drop offs from the five are what you see on the floor in front.

[Pepsi]

This next look is at the tank with all three parts put together.

[Pepsi]

The next decision was what pump did I want to use to push the Twister. I have 2 brand new pumps they are washing machine pumps I really want to test.
Just to give an idea of what I have tested here's the latest ones tested.

[NuebieN]

Dude.. you are obsessed. Very cool.

[Pepsi]

The next step is to get the pump to water and not have it leak! One of the new pumps on the res.

[Pepsi]

And if your feeling like you need more power a dual pump setup

[Pepsi]

Duals........ah killer.
Sorry for this little tank only one.....The rest is simple check it out

[Pepsi]

Well that's it for tonight....I'll get the rest up tomorrow.
Stay Cool Pepsi

[Arkamedies]

Here is an idea for you Pepsi. The "large" fans you need for the big twister can be hushed way down by using a fan no one thinks about..... except perhaps those of us in cold climates.

The portable room heaters that you plug in, and never leave running while you are away, have a large 6" electric fan that is absolutely silent when removed from the case.

I discovered this when my heater pooped out on me, blew a coil, so was worthless for heating, but still ran the fan fine.... so as any good junk tester would, I tore it appart and tested the fan....

OH MY. Even with it next to your ear you can not hear it run, but it puts out ALOT of air. I will try to get a pic up soon of it.

[Pepsi]

Ah good idea a pic of my fan selection
...............this is ridiculous......and about half what I have.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Magik]

You know, your big bong looks like it wouldnt be too expensive......Hrm......Could you get some more pics of it running though please? Just like one or two from farther back because i dont get what goes in those holes you have on the one you showed us and well....its confusing not being able to see the whole thing at once.....

-Magik

Keep up the great work!;)

[Pepsi]

Magik,
No problem........I'll tell all. And before we go into part 2 I have to say to anyone out there that has tried to copy this I'm sorry. I left out many critical details that make the Twister work. At one time I had a serious rush of greed (stupidity) what ever. After thinking about it sure I might be able make a couple of bucks, big deal. This design might not be new it might be....without a few bumps from you guys it would not have ever happened. I would of quit. So .......this bumps for you.
Part 2
BRB
pics to take bla bla bla.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[JoeCrappa]

hurry back pepsi...i wanna read that crap! (crap as in "stuff" not used in a derogitory way. blah)

[Pepsi]

Yee ha the kids are in bed......so where were we......PUMPS! ok.
Sorry it's been one of those days. So I have my washing machine pump ( a new one , design) hooked up. Now why do you think that I need such a serious pump? Pressure.......that's it nothing else......and the more the better......thus the washing machine pumps came into the picture. How it works is simple the Twister Tank is sealed, except for a small vent to adjust pressure. Pressure for what?..Spray and air movement. The smaller the vent at the top the more pressure at the bottom ......kind of like a a water hose when you're washing your car. Liquids don't compress so if I force X amount of water into the top cylinder it starts to twist and rush out the only place it can go. The bottom.
If you have enough pressure the water will generate speed and at it's accelerated rate blasting out it cools it's self. That is why fans really don't work. Unless ......you Force a bunch of air that should not be there in the first place.....then they work, but the friction they cause takes twice the energy to ditch the heat.
I got the unit in the pics up last night it will hold all by it's self -10 from ambi with proper tweaking it can go lower, but to put it mildly is like tuning a race car. It's possible.
Ok so we know what is going on. I have a fire hose spraying water it's cooled by fast movment through the air and over and over.. The trick is two things exit speed = entry angle ( design). If your entry jet is a big bulky thing you will not have decent exit speed. 90 degree fittings do work but they really mess up flow. So I came up with this about a month ago. At the edge of the cylinder water is delivered by whatever means. I tried round exits they worked fine, but not really effeicient. The one I use now is a flat jet that enters the Twister Tank and hugs the wall, the round ones seem to use tons of energy (less spray) so here's a look at my custom nozzles. I hope this makes sense to you it's basically like putting your finger on the end of a hose.....get it?
Stay Cool
Pepsi
Pics to come

[Pepsi]

This little piece of hardware is a part of a router base by Porter Cable a vaccuum attachment.

[Pepsi]

The jet in the tank is eighth inch plex heated and molded. Once cooled I trim it sand and install.

[Pepsi]

Here's a look Twister Tank(top), middle cooling section, bottom is the res.

[Pepsi]

Opps....getting tired. Here's the pic.

[JFettig]

any more? or any of it running?

i wanna see more!!!

[Pepsi]

Ok so right now we have a grand total of 21$ for water bottles (the deposit) 41 bucks for the pump (ah that's half price what I get em at) and another ten for seals PVC ect.
So about 75 bucks.
If you don't know how heat plex cut and grid it any tank entry will work, just not as good. Sorry I can't go into all that I made ny nozzle with a jar and wood chisel (used to push the heated plex down into the jar the shape looks like a hood scoop on a race car). Tighten it up and as I always like to say push to test release to detonate......Hopefully you have no leaks .............these things push some water. If you did everything right it will look like this............

[Pepsi]

So we are set!!!!!!!!! Tomorrow we are going to fire this beast up. Till then later guys
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Pepsi]

Hello everyone,
I ran an all night leak test on the Water Bottle Twister and as usual I had some leaks. Things are tightened up and I feel pretty good about this prototype. The pump is doing as good as I expected and this version has cooled better than any of previous ones. While I wait a few for the stuff to set I thought I'd try to explain any of the other little things I could about the Twister Bong that I might of forgot. This is probably my last entry as far as testing this idea. There should be enough info anyone can build one and tune it. Tuning it .....I could figure one out in a few minutes. Things to remember if it's loud put foam in the bottom to reduce splashing and make sure the thing is PLUMB and level. The water spins so fast if the outlet is not dead center (plumb) it wastes power getting out to the res. Any easy way to tell is to look straight down the middle of the Twister the exit hole will not match the bottom of the Twister this can be fixed by shifting the angle of the Twister Tank slightly, you'll be amazed at the difference it makes as far as noise and speed. The drain hole in Twister Tank is adjusted to the size of the pump. Don't even think of attempting this without a huge pump. I have made it work with a 450 but it was weak that's why I got into the washing machine pumps they are nothing but pure power and cheap too. To push coolant to the Computer I'd plan on a second pump of your choice. Trying to cool more than 5 gallons of water you will have to have a good fan. The main thing to remember is if it's loud and spashing it's not working right something is wrong with it. For the most part that's it. I'm going to check my glue if it's setup enough I'll start posting pics of it running.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Arkamedies]

Best of luck Pepsi, I am already checking the price of acrylic tubing and pump motors. :D

[Magik]

More?
:D

[Wolfe]

Man im inspired! i gotta build one of those!

:D

[JoeCrappa]

i would have done that...too much noise. my fridge mod is nice and quiet...and with temps of 18.5C...you can't argue.

[SheRmaN]

Originally posted by JoeCrappa
i would have done that...too much noise. my fridge mod is nice and quiet...and with temps of 18.5C...you can't argue.

Hey, do you have anny pic`s or specs of your fridge mod?

Btw, WERRY nice work there pepsi!! this realy got me thinkin of doing somthing with my good old bong cooler..

[Pepsi]

Sorry guys I had to take the weekend off family time..... I got several good pics of the latest one running. Here's a quick one of it in action. Testing went great I'll post more tomorrow.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[JoeCrappa]

no i dont have any pics, sorry...i wish i had a digital cam

Hey pepsi that looks GREAT! i'm surprised i'm the first to check this! looks awesome!

[Wolfe]

is that black block of foam for leak stoppage or to remove humidity from the air or to stop splashes?

[Wolfe]

That thing ceased to be a bong ages ago!

All hail Pepsi and his

:eek: :eek: VORTEX COOLERS :eek: :eek:

[Ghastard]

One word:

Wow


Man, I am just in awe of this whole project. I spent a good hour reading this thread, and still can't believe how hardcore some people can be.

When this whole thing is finalized (or at least in a semi-stable state), you should definitely write up an article for the main site. I'm particularly interested in some of the details of your trial and error stages.


Keep up the good work Pepsi! :D

[JoeCrappa]

we've already tried getting pepsi to do that...he won't budge!

[bobt17]

all i have to say is WOW lol my eyes are hurting after spending alot of time reading all that but i am in utter amazement and it was well worth it btw pepsi did u get that second pm i sent u about the clasifide ad?

[Pepsi]

Hello Guys,
I should have given you a little better pic of that unit. The foam at the center section basically keeps the water from splashing out and acts as a vent for the fan on this unit. I miscalculated the amount of air flow needed I was thinking of adding two 80 mill fans there. As usuall this unit taught me more about how these work so further testing with it is post phoned untill I sort out the next step. What I do know for sure is a long skinny Twister works much better than the short wide ones. They generate much better pressure, the only draw back is once again pump size. The faster you spin the better the cooling, obviously I cool my water two ways, with the spray and the air movment at the center of the Twister.
Right now I am in the stages of building one out of 4 inch clear 4 feet tall. I think that I can spin a long skinny one all the way to the top. I might finish it tonight.
Once again the writing of an artical has come up. Believe me I will right now it's very close. Without more testing I might give you bad details and or specs that would in the end give you a poorly working model. Like I said before once you build one the tweaking begins. The list of items that makes these fail is short but how to convey to you an easy fix is kind of hard for me. I'm at the point now I can build one listen to it watch what it's doing while monitoring temps and tune it in a matter of two or three hours. Without a doubt I could take two sets of identical parts, pumps hoses build them and they would run similar but not the same.The water bottle one has so far been the cheapest and eaisest to get to work it's also my favorite. Someone asked about the sponge it was a last ditch thing to keep water from blowing out all over the place. That model evaporated so much water so fast it would need seperate system to refill it on an as needed basis. No kidding the last test on it, it nearly ran bone dry in 5 hours it holds about 6 gallons. As near as I could tell it was losing about a GALLON an hour. I sure miss not having it running the house is really dry now. I have a setup to hook the res to a water line in the house the valve is a 24 volt controlled by a sensor in the tank. It's cake to hook something like that up.
I've killed all the noise just by adding foam in the bottom of the res and right under the Twister exit plus it helps the water evaporate. These stupid things are just a hoot to watch. I'm totally hooked (DUH). I've gotten to point I can't build them fast enough to test ideas. The bad thing is most of the prototypes get torn down for parts and I start the next one. The good thing is I have so much stuff I rarely need to buy anything.
At this point if any of you are building one and it gives you trouble EM me we should be able fix it easily. My dream Twister is on the drawing board 15" tubing and 6 feet tall feed by at least two pumps. The overall cost about 1200 bucks. So now that I have confirmed the fact I am crazy.... I'll leave with you with another look at the water bottle setup.
Stay Cool
Pepsi
BTW BRB I have to find and edit a good pic.

[Pepsi]

This is look at the whole setup for the last WB prototype. The fan is one of my furnace types, it was desiged so the the 2 inch PVC carries the air and allows the fans to be put anywhere they are slightly loud, but not totally. The models being tested I always put in a large plastic tub at first all of them leaked somewhere.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Pepsi]

Here's a look at the digital temp meter 3 hours into the first test run notice the percent humidity.
Stay Cool
Pepsi
PS Bobt17 I got your PM I'll be in touch.

[Ghastard]

Be sure to take all of the time you need to get your article right. No need to feel rushed. I'm just as anxious to read how this is all done, but I would much rather have a clear and correct article than a rushed one.

Your talent just amazes me Pepsi. Keep up the good work! :cool:

[Pepsi]

Hello Everyone,
I spent the last two nights working on my new idea. I did this one in all clear acrylic (the stuff just looks to sexy). The res is 13" tall and 12" in diameter. On top of that is a 4" diameter by 48" tall tube. I went dual pumps on this one. These are two little Italian pumps GPH on them I'm not sure but a good guess is about 1500. They are smaller than the other machine pumps I used and less powerfull. I got her fired up last night late and as usual I had a *&^$%%_+)(# leak! One tiny drip! I got it fixed and tried again. The Twister it spins is very skinny and long when it's running you can hear a sucking sound coming from the res vent. I have no fans on this one yet and have not started the first test (basically it will run for a week straight to see if anything breaks). This first pic is of the pump mainifold and connections to the res and Twister Tube.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[Pepsi]

In the last pic if you notice I added a drain plug and it's also possible to install a refill on demand system to this fitting. I plan on doing this Here's another look from the side.

[Pepsi]

If you look close where the plumbing comes together there is a chanber there attached to the side of the Twister Tube. This is where the adjustable jet to the tubes is and one heck of a lot of pressure. Here's another look at the setup.

[Pepsi]

Here's a look at one of the pumps installed and wired

[Pepsi]

And finally here's a look of it running. I took this pic when it was leaking it was loosing pressure fast, so I had to hurry. The Twister bends and moves a lot it actually looks like something I saw on the news once of a Tornado forming right as it was about to hit the grond.

[Pepsi]

And one last pic it's a shot of the top of the Twister close up. This version runs very quiet and generates some serious pressure. The spray fan in the tank makes a very wild sound. It's ironic but it sounds like a train moving across the tracks from far away. Did you ever hear that one? The reason I believe is that the Twister forms and dies then reforms and causes a pulsing of the spray fan below in the res tank. I have a ton of tuning to do on this one I'll keep you posted on how it all works out. See ya then.
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[JoeCrappa]

OMG! That looks so sweet! thats a LOOOOOONG twister! man pepsi....how DO you DO it?

[Pepsi]

Hummmm Joe I don't know. Lots of trial and error I suppose. As far as I'm concerned this is nothing compared to the one on the drawing board I'm dying to build that one, it's that 900 dollar price tag for the cylinder that's kicking my butt. Anyone out there that feels like they want to contribute let me know. Surely we have at least one millionaire out there.......(just kidding). Later guys.
Stay Cool
Pepsi
Just for you Joe here's a shot of the bottom of the Twister close up

[JoeCrappa]

wow.... so the whole twister starts from the bottom. those must be some strong pumps. they may be weaker than the washer pumps...but they look like they're doing their job. why not try putting the washer pump on that and see which one fairs better?

[Pepsi]

Joe I was thinking about that. These two pumps are washing machine pumps also, but a different brand. No doubt I am going to put the big boys on this one and see how she runs
Stay Cool
Pepsi

[JoeCrappa]

are you going to put them in dual? or just use a single pump?