HTPC Build progress

[Neuromancer]

I constantly see people saying they can build PCs in 30 minutes. I have never been one that could do that, I am too detail oriented.

Working in Home Theater PC case makes it even more so....

6 hours to install another 2 spent playing with Vista getting it to install, but to be fair I was on OCF a little bit last night.

System:

Lascala LC-20 Silverstone HTPC case
Biostart TA790GX A2+ atx motherboard with homebrew sinked FETs
Phenom 9950BE Stock clocks and heatsink
OCZ 2x2GB Gold DDR2-6400 5-5-5-13
Apevia 500W PSU (yes I am changin it)
Dual Layer DVDRW with Ligthscribe (IDE)
Floppy Drive with 52in1 media card reader
250GB WD SATA drive for OS
2x320GB Seagate Perpindicular drives for data storage
750GB Samsung F1 for Video storage

2x92mm panaflo intakes in HDD cage
2x80mm rear exhaust (Mass Cool)
1x80mm side intake (Mass Cool)


Whether it was removing and replacing hte heatsink so many times or too many intake fans, the CPU is running way too hot for me right now (49C in BIOS when installing Windows) Heatsink is hot to touch... almost wish the tuniq tower would fit in there. Going to try flipping side fan to exhaust, adding another 80mm fan in the PCI slots as an exhaust and mod the top of the case to hold a 120mm blowing down on the CPU, chipset, FETs to see if that works. Small cases usually cool better with negative case flow, so will see what I can manage.

Anyway, here are the pics (thumbnails are clickable)


Nice and empty!
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/OCF/th_100_3254.jpg (http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/OCF/?action=view&current=100_3254.jpg)

Full Frontal Nudity shot
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/OCF/th_100_3255.jpg (http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/OCF/?action=view&current=100_3255.jpg)

First cables installed.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/OCF/th_100_3257.jpg (http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/OCF/?action=view&current=100_3257.jpg)

Everything but HDD Cage installed. The loose IDE power cables you see in the center of the pic is power for the panaflo fans which are mounted in the hdd cage.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/OCF/th_100_3258.jpg (http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/OCF/?action=view&current=100_3258.jpg)

Money shot!
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/OCF/th_100_3259.jpg (http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/OCF/?action=view&current=100_3259.jpg)

Hmm if I move the 750GB Hdd to the left towards the OS drive... I can fit my HD4850 in there!!
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/OCF/th_100_3260.jpg (http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/OCF/?action=view&current=100_3260.jpg)


Even with a battle axe cooler on the video card it would fit!!! (It's on a harddrive behind the case so all you can see is the dvi ports)
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/OCF/th_100_3262-1.jpg (http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/OCF/?action=view&current=100_3262-1.jpg)


But unfortunately the case needs better cooling before I would even consider putting a non external exhausting video card in this case...


Need to do some fan work, and reapply silver paste to heatsink.. to get this running cooler. Then will update with some screenshots. Really wish I had enough money to get some wire and IDE/SATA molex connectors to build a wiring harness for this. Wire management would be so much easier.

Oh well time to go tear this apart and see what I can do...

[Neuromancer]

Well looks like it is getting its first upgrade.

I never thought I would get it at so low a price, but I won an All-in-wonder auction. HD3650 with HD Tuner.

Figures right after I finish strapping an 80mm fan to the PCI Expansion slots :P


Would dremeling some straight lines in the front of the case (directly in front of the 92mm fans) help increase airflow enough to make it worthwhile permanently scarring the face plate?

[jimmsch]

Well looks like it is getting its first upgrade.

I never thought I would get it at so low a price, but I won an All-in-wonder auction. HD3650 with HD Tuner.

Figures right after I finish strapping an 80mm fan to the PCI Expansion slots :P


Would dremeling some straight lines in the front of the case (directly in front of the 92mm fans) help increase airflow enough to make it worthwhile permanently scarring the face plate?

No, not worthwhile. I have been using the Lascala 16 in one of my HTPCs with absolutely no mods done to it and a passive vid card with no problems whatsoever.

I would not scar the most visible part of the case for any reason.

[Neuromancer]

I switched things around so that the 3x80mm fans around the cpu all exhaust instead or side intake.

I will get this tested with the lid on later hopefully it is good enough. If not I am sonsidering 2x80mm top fan over the cpu and chipset.

Thanks for straightening me out jimmsch, I do not know what I was thinking considering cutting the front of the case up.

[Wicked Klown]

Not bad, need to clean up the wiring a bit but still not bad. Are you going to be able to install the video card with all those HDDs in there?

[Neuromancer]

Wiring was all hidden before i installed the hdd cage. The wires that were showing before the hdd cage was installed were pulled out so that I could plug in the fans once i installed the cage.

Do not have a lot of choice with wiremanaging the hdd power/data cables. Although I am thinking I might have enout sata connectors.. I might build a harness for power.

WK:
Moving the 750GB hdd (already done but not in pics) would allow me to fit the HD4850 with battle axe cooler (pics of that above, not installed but placed, the one shows it resting on the hdd that needed moving the other shows it has enough height :) ). The case had a 2600pro dual slot cooler in there before so its definitly good.

There is easily enough room for the all in wonder.

Going to look for smaller PSUs I think and maybe try and get another 80mm fan on the side (deja vu!) or since there is no 3.5" external cage, i could mod that area to fit a 120mm intake... hmm i think i like that idea best. (Pulling air from the bottom)

[Neuromancer]

Holy crap.

Well whether it is poor airflow or just that hte stock AMD cooler is not enough to handle even a stock phenom quadcore processor, I do not know.

I just closed up the case, opened up the newest core temp program and fired up prime95 (x64) and was in the mid 60's instantly. Went downstairs for smoke, come back and the thing is at 84C!!!

I really do not think that adding more fans to the case is going to improve the CPU temps. Definitly going to have to replace the heatsink.

EDIT: I spoke in haste apparently.

Took of the heatsink to measure the clearance I have from the CPU, and noticed the AS5 was not even. flipped the heatsink 180 degree remounted and temps are 20C lower. Still to high for my liking and it will be going in a room that tends to be around 85F (wood stove). So definitly going to get a 3rd party cooler for it, but it is not a panic rush anymore.

[LandShark]

keep in mind the LC-20 isn't the best airflow htpc case at all (I was using it as my main living room htpc) especially with a quad core! and especially true if you want the machine to be quiet. get an aftermarket hsf will helps, but remember, the heat from the cpu will still needs to be exhausted outta case otherwise the interior case temp will be shoot over the roof!

good thing for htpc is the cpu rarely under full loaded (unless you are folding or crunching seti like I used to on my htpc), so, you probably won't see anywhere near the full loaded temp anyway! most of the time, it will be sitting idle, and with your 790G, the cpu load won't be high at all even when playing bluray movies. on those video files that doesn't support HA, it still won't use more than 50-60% total load even if you are playing some 1080p/720p mkv/avi/rmvb files.

just get a better aftermarket hsf, and I wouldn't worry too much 'bout it. just check the temp every now and then and clean up the fan/heatsink every once in awhile and you are good to go imo.

[Neuromancer]

Yah.

I have 3x80mm fans right around the CPU all exhausting hot air, so once I get an aftermarket heatsink I should be good to go. Also have 2 rather quiet 40mm fans one on the chipset and one of the fet sinks.

It certainly is not the quietest of PCs (the panaflos are a bit on the loud side) but it is inside an AV rack, and that helps keep it quiet. You certainly can not hear when playing TV/Movies through the Home theater reciever :)

Still going to add the 120mm fan under the optical cage, and possibly redesign the HDD rack to something smaller. Currently though I am working on the software setup and am going to make a detailed list of what software I install incase anyone has questions or wants to follow a similar ath.

Have to admit, raid is definitly busted on the SB750was running 2x200GB barracuda hdds (yah they are crap but it was striped), now running a single 250GB WD sata drive for OS. Boot time dropped from 3 minutes to about 45 seconds. The desktop itself seems snappier now too. I know raid causes a small hit to access times, but the STR usually more then makes up for it... not on the SB750.

[Automiketic]

hey i recoginze that psu. glad to see its still being put to good use.

[Neuromancer]

Got AIWHD in on the 22nd finally got around to installing it last night.

After 4 hours of battle, I find that it is not compatible with either my motherboard or some setting in the BIOS that is off by default in "safe mode"

Installed the card hooked up the HDMI and get no screen whatsoever. Vista still loads up as I can still RDP into the BOX (I am doing that right now :) )

Tried everythign I can think of, disabling IGP, setting GEN1 compatability mode, even considered adjusting the wattage on the slot... no love.

Popped the card into my 680i and everything works fine.


In the HTPC, if I reset the cmos, I get Video through the HDMI port. However after making basic changes (nothing effecting the video card I would think) F10 and restart and video dissappears.

Sigh

Now I am thinking that the quad core super HTPC might be on hold and go back to running the intel dual core, since I got my preamp for my HD antenna, and TV on the HTPC is a must :) (Need to fix antenna though and build a reflector before I can mount the preamp though)

Posted at AMD forums about the issue, going to try rebelhaven (biostar links them as their official forum) and contact tech support of V-tek and Biostar and see if anyone knows.

[ps2cho]

You sure there is no HDMI jumper setting on the board? I know that is the case with my DFI LP JR 790GX

[Neuromancer]

HDMI port on the motherboard works just fine. I am trying to get the one on the video card to function. I have considered that it might be a matter of having 2 HDMI ports in the PC... but disabling the IGP should have fixed that, and it did not.

I do not know of an HDMI jumper, since I had no problems using HMDI on anything before this, and the HDMI on the video card works just fine on the 680i system

[Wicked Klown]

You might want to head over to AVSForum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26) for help with the ATI. Alot of people have been having issues getting sound to work with an ATI card.

[Neuromancer]

I posted there. But do not expect any assistance from that site. I have posted there before when building my HD antenna and got some great help. But I just do not like that site too much :(

This is driving me nuts, and there is so much useless information on the net about hybridCF and not a single page that I can find on how to set it up. (So I can eliminate H-CF being the cause of the problem, by NOT configuring it LOL)

Now I am considering Powerplay might be the issue, since, neither HCF or PP were compatible with the HD4850... it did not present a problem there.. but now with a card that is "almost" compatible... it could be the issue. (3000 series GPU,, I suppose I could install the 2600 pro and see if it has problems too) This would explain why the device does not appear in device manager...either under display adapters or unknown devices.


But I see no option to disable either H-CF or PP in the BIOS.. :(

[Neuromancer]

Okay, well it is around new year, but no response yet from 3 tech support companies and 4 forums...

Goign to give it another week, and then my HTPC is not going to be the super HTPC anymore :)

Got a bunch of LP cases arriving tomorrow. IF I can not get this problem resolved in the next week, I am just going to swap out the guts and make the HTPC a low power unit and run a nice deicated server that will host everything (gigabit ethernet has not provided any problems so far :)

Got a table near a power port, and the gigabit switch.. and close to an old unused dryervent exhaust in the basement. For the next few months can have a server being nicely chilled :) Not TOO worried about codensation since hte basment itself is kind of drafty and cold.. if I use low powered parts... they should not cause much condensation themselves..

Then i can build another machine that has all the power for encoding/decoding, and it will only have to run when I need it, and it can double as a gaming machine

Means adding another PC or two to the loop, but might still be more energy efficent :)

[Wicked Klown]

I thought you were able to turn h-cf off and on in CCC. Only way I seen to disable PP is with a modded BIOS.

[Neuromancer]

Picked up a nViida chipset mobo and a cheap dual core AM2. Running pretty good with the AIW HD now. Picking up most every HD station I can, although a couple a a little blocky still. Hopefully its because I am using 100' RG59 instead of RG6. (I think its like 30% less signal loss. Maybe even try RG7 if I can find it :)).

Once I get the cable changed, I will also try adjusting the whiskers to bend out and see if I can get an extra 2db gain :)

Thinking about going back to ffdshow for codecs and reinstall V64 since 32bit Vista is just too unstable in my experience.

Will swap out the crap PSU for the Earth watts while I am at it :)

[Wicked Klown]

I finally changed over to x64 Vista. I was having issues with codecs even with FFDshow installed. I finally installed x64 vista codec pack and all was good. Altho FFDshow even with that is a tad flaky.

[Neuromancer]

Yah most of the 64 bit codecs are in Alpha stage not even Beta yet :( at least last time I looked.

But the OS stability should hopefully make up for it :)

[Neuromancer]

System has seen a massive overhaul and is about to get a face lift as well.

Only ran the quad for a little while, decided to go back to a dual core setup.

Currently running
Abit AN78GS motherboard
AMD 3600x2
Xigmatec HDT cooler
Antec 430W PSU (Su-430 I beleive)
250GB WD OS drive
3x1TB WD Greenpower drives
IDE DVDRW
Floppy and 52in1 card reader in 5.25" expansion shell
Visiontek AIW HD
2x1GB Crucial generic DDR2-667


Just installed 3x 1TB WD Greenpower HDDs and am pretty happy so far. Still need to get a BDROM for it though. CPU will be getting an upgrade from the 3600x2 to the 6400x2 when I have the cash to complete the sale. Which should ensure that even without DXVA I will have no problems playing HD content.

I want to upgrade the display from a 26" LCD tv, to 1080p monitor instead. Having to hit the power button on the TV when the PC shuts off the monitor is annoying, but I do not want the TV on for too long either. It gets enough active time on as it is. That hanns-G is so cheap on newegg, I am hoping will see some used ones appearing soon :)

Case really needs some work though, I do not know how many screws I have snapped off taking this case apart. (Cheap ass screws) so I will be needing to get a tap and die kit, to reset the case mounts.

This will also be useful for a mod that I am going to work on next. I removed the Silverstone HDD cage, because it is huge and unmanageable. Currently I am running the 4 HDDs on a pipe strap cage that is placed in there (was originally screwed in but I unscrewed it to make the hdd changes, and am not goign through that hassle again). Instead I will get a 4in3 hdd cage and mount it parallel to the front of the case. This will double as a side 120mm fan intake. Which raises the question of whether to mod the existing 2x92mm fans into a single 120 as well.

Also want to build a duct for the CPU heatsink, to force the warm air straight out of the side of the case (has a 80mm screen there). With 3x80mm exhaust and either 2x120mm or 1x120 & 2x92mm intake I will be running a positive pressure case, so will probably also change out the rear PCI expansion slots for vented ones.

Lastly (or more likely, firstly) I will be finally building a wire harness for my case. Something I have wanted to do for a long time and never got around to doing. I really like the flat ribbon cable of the ultra xfinity power supplies. But I do not really care for the product itself. So I will be "prewiring" the case with my own cable extensions. Designed for wiremanagement in mind. I considered just wiring the PSU up with flat ribbon cables, but wiring the case gives me the option to change out hte PSU at a later date. Also will probably completely remove all the extra IDE power ports on the PSU, and add 2 more SATA power ports to the existing SATA power cable.

[KTE]

Keep us updated on your success to getting any DXVA acceleration. I've been struggling with it for my Queens HTPC around here which uses the ATi 780G/SB700 combo.

[Neuromancer]

Keep us updated on your success to getting any DXVA acceleration. I've been struggling with it for my Queens HTPC around here which uses the ATi 780G/SB700 combo.

Well DXVA is not hard, Garo has a thread about his HTPC and it was recommended to install FFD Show than in the settings disable H264. Then manually register (regsvr32 XXXXXX) the media player classic home cinema codec for h264. (Will have to look it up its something like MPVidDec.ax

The problem is making sure that your profiles are correct 3.1 for SD 4.1 for HD, and your ref frames and B frames are within specs (less than 5 for 1080p less than 10 for 720p). Also supposedly nVidia has fixed their B Frame issue (although they supposedly fixed the BSOD issue too and I had problems with 3 different 8800 series cards :p). I do not run nVidia anymore so I leave B pyramids enabled.

I am working on a handbrake guide for understanding the GUI a bit easier than the developers documented it. (The tell you what the stuff is but not how it relates to anything)

Hopefully I will develop an understanding enough to also make recommendations as well although most of the presets work pretty well, they do not tell you everything, and command line switches are difficult to try and figure out (many make sense, a lot do not)




EDIT: MPCVideoDEc the whole thread is good this post for DXVA (http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=6036268&postcount=115)

I originally just installed all the MPC codecs, and man did that eff some stuff up. Just install that one as he outlines if your stuff is in the right format, it should work

If your files are still not accelerating via the IGP, you can google for IDC Changer over at AVSForums, to try and force L3.1 or L4.1

[KTE]

Well DXVA is not hard, Garo has a thread about his HTPC and it was recommended to install FFD Show than in the settings disable H264. Then manually register (regsvr32 XXXXXX) the media player classic home cinema codec for h264. (Will have to look it up its something like MPVidDec.ax

EDIT: MPCVideoDEc the whole thread is good this post for DXVA (http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=6036268&postcount=115)

I originally just installed all the MPC codecs, and man did that eff some stuff up. Just install that one as he outlines if your stuff is in the right format, it should work

If your files are still not accelerating via the IGP, you can google for IDC Changer over at AVSForums, to try and force L3.1 or L4.1
Thanks for the info. I've been working on this for 9 months now and been through every single option I've come across out there. Doom9 listening to the likes of akupenguin and Dark_Shikari to the simple forums, over 9/10 of the info found was basic so things I already know and have tried.

All my content is well within SD profile High Level 3.1 and HD profile High Level 4.1 DPB governed Ref-frame and resolution limits to be DXVA'able. I don't use B-pyramids simply because x264 encoding meant B-frames were not always kept within the DPB which caused invalid streams to be formed, even though that improves quality and compression on most content more than 6-11 Ref-frames could do. The temporary workaround taxing a Ref-frame (-1 flag) with partial stability only ensured more header space was available for extra B-frames so reducing the likelihood of the error but it didn't solve the inherent problem. Then the second problem was with DPB 4 being used (standard) and B-pyramids with a Ref-frame <4 meant bit-rate loss and another bug.

Nv GPUs have been confirmed to DXVA L5.1 content for a while now.

FFDShow, CCCP, K-Lite, etc, every package and method touted I've been through on 8 OS builds I have here -> none and I mean none worked even half decent and half complete for DXVA in my testing. If one thing worked then another few things messed up with them, which isn't a solution. Haali Media Splitter is one I temporarily removed a few days back as a last resort, even though it was the most efficient, simply because while it was installed, flawless DXVA'd video content as I now get was not possible. This without us requiring subtitles on our video content, ever. The only way I've managed to get my content DXVA'd is by the current method and its flawless for H.264/AVC content in the MKV and MP4 containers. MPEG-2 content is also accelerated fine. It'll take some convincing for me to change this now. :)

I'm testing using as many various source files as possible, most are personal files including:
Some H.264 MOV trailers from Apple: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide/hd/
Some VC-1 WMV trailers from MS: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/musicandvideo/hdvideo/contentshowcase.aspx


I'm working on a way to accelerate VC-1 WMV-HD content which is a PITA, whether it be a hack or otherwise, I'll need it one way or another. VC-1 and H.264 have dedicated UVD silicon to enable full acceleration in AMD 780G. MPEG-2 content is very low processing and hence dedicated UVD silicon wasn't previously being used but the work was being done in the pixel shaders. AMD used its Xileon technology to provide dedicated silicon for things like image sharpening so that is also a native capability and works very nicely. HQ HDV tests found the AMD 780G to score very well, 113/130.

The second current obstacle I have is the MOV container. Nearing a dead end getting H.264 MOV container videos DXVA'd.

I typically use Free Extended Task Manager and AMD GPU Clock Tool to check the current CPU and UVD status, i.e.

http://thumbnails17.imagebam.com/3231/05ef2f32300321.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/05ef2f32300321)

And I'm using H264info to edit H.264/AVC settings like the IDC header flag.

I've got rid of 7 different codec/libraries one after another due to none providing a suitable solution for my needs. The second major reason is the lady using the build and doing all the navigation/watching is not someone computer geek. It needs to work for her while I'm usually away, and work good, consistent, with as minimal complexity as possible. I have hope :)

[Neuromancer]

Are you using XP or Vista?

[KTE]

Both, although all the testing is first on XP since I can deal with that at the lowest level when and if anything goes wrong quite simply. I can't do even 35% of the same in Vista.

I take back what I said about flawless DXVA for H.264 MP4/MKV content. I've just come across a 10.1GB 1080P 11Mbps H.264/AVC MKV container personal movie (High@L4.1, 4 Ref-frames). Nothing in the details is dissimilar to what much of the other perfectly accelerated content is although with this video, at various intervals of increased motion, frames are stuttering and being skipped persistently. DXVA does work with it but even without any extra shaders, the playback is not something acceptable. Ahh :o

I'm trying to drop a Ref-frame to see if and what difference that makes.