series or parallel?

[n3slo]

The stuff (so far):

ThermalTake VE1000 case
ThermalTake Aquabay (2U)
NZXT 5 channel fan controller
Hiper Type R II 680W PSU
BlackIce Extreme 120 X 240 Radiators (2) - mounted inside case at the top in horizontal configuration
Enermax ENLOBAL 120mm Fans (4) - mounted on rads in push position
Swiftech MCP-655 (with speed controller) water pump

This gear will be cooling an Intel Core2Duo E8500 (overclocked to some degree but as yet havent decided which waterblock I want) with an 880GTX (isnt the best but I am not a hardcore gamer) which will also be using some type of waterblock (to be determined). The NB and ram will also be watercooled. (again no decision yet on the waterblocks).

Thats what I have so far.. hopefully you peeps can recommend waterblocks.
Anyway, here is the question:
Why wouldnt I want to use a single supply manifold with separate lines for cooling each component, with the discharge from each component coming back to a single return manifold and then to the rads (rads are in series)?
Is it because the pump may not be able to provide enough flow? I can throttle the return flow from each loop using a valve that can be set for the demand (max) for each loop thus increasing flow to the higher demand components.
I intend to create the manifolds using 1" pipe with 1/4 fittings (ram and NB) and 3/8 fittings (CPU and GPU) for the supplies to the components.
Now, I am not a flow engineer or a plumber but in my mind it seems that providing the same temperature water to each component (parallel loops) is preferable to the last component getting warm water in a series connection.

Or is this idea seriously whacked out and improbable to balance/plumb?

Before I begin purchasing the final plumbing components (waterblocks, fittings, etc..) it would be preferable to have some idea of the viability of the project. Any help/suggestions are welcome.

Thanks in advance for your help..

[axis01]

CPU waterblock is your choice. The Swiftech GTZ, D-Tek FuZion 2, and EK supreme are the most common but there are many others. Cooling a E8500 is no problem with just about any decent CPU waterblock. The 8800GTX is easily cooled with a good aftermarket aircooler unless you just want to watercool it. It's a rather old card so finding one might be challenging. Performance PC has them but they are pricey for such an old card. For the NB, you'll need to see what's compatible with your MB. The MCW30 is pretty common and will fit most MB's. There's no need to cool RAM unless you just want the "cool" factor. You gain nothing from it unless you're REALLY PUSHING them. Running parallel rads isn't advised since water will go the path of least resistance. That means the side with the most restrictive blocks will get the least amount of water. It's much better to run your rads in series if you're sticking with a single pump. You can put the second rad between the CPU and GPU but it isn't really necessary. The GTX doesn't care if it's at 30C or 80C. Personally, i'd run it reservior>pump>rad>rad>CPU>NB>GPU>reservior. This would give you the coldest water possible going straight to your CPU first. The NB and GPU can handle higher temps better, although you're only talking a couple degrees C higher after the water goes through the CPU block.

Axis

[n3slo]

CPU waterblock is your choice. The Swiftech GTZ, D-Tek FuZion 2, and EK supreme are the most common but there are many others. Cooling a E8500 is no problem with just about any decent CPU waterblock. The 8800GTX is easily cooled with a good aftermarket aircooler unless you just want to watercool it. It's a rather old card so finding one might be challenging. Performance PC has them but they are pricey for such an old card. For the NB, you'll need to see what's compatible with your MB. The MCW30 is pretty common and will fit most MB's. There's no need to cool RAM unless you just want the "cool" factor. You gain nothing from it unless you're REALLY PUSHING them. Running parallel rads isn't advised since water will go the path of least resistance. That means the side with the most restrictive blocks will get the least amount of water. It's much better to run your rads in series if you're sticking with a single pump. You can put the second rad between the CPU and GPU but it isn't really necessary. The GTX doesn't care if it's at 30C or 80C. Personally, i'd run it reservior>pump>rad>rad>CPU>NB>GPU>reservior. This would give you the coldest water possible going straight to your CPU first. The NB and GPU can handle higher temps better, although you're only talking a couple degrees C higher after the water goes through the CPU block.

Axis

Sorry I wasnt clear in my original description, but the rads are in series.. for the very reason you stated.
I am going with watercooling for everything so I dont have to bother with airflow management inside the case. I want my only airflow priority to be with respect to the rads.... I selected 2 rads for the additional cooling potential/headroom.
I am overclocking this but I havent decided yet how far past 4ghz I want to go.

[Spawn-Inc]

always series, if you have a good pump, which you do, then the water is flowing at such a rate that it won't make any difference in terms of temps. however running parallel will kill your flow rates and get you higher temps.

second toss/return the aqua bay crap from TT. TT + water = dead system....


CPU waterblock is your choice. The Swiftech GTZ, D-Tek FuZion 2, and EK supreme are the most common but there are many others. Cooling a E8500 is no problem with just about any decent CPU waterblock. The 8800GTX is easily cooled with a good aftermarket aircooler unless you just want to watercool it. It's a rather old card so finding one might be challenging. Performance PC has them but they are pricey for such an old card. For the NB, you'll need to see what's compatible with your MB. The MCW30 is pretty common and will fit most MB's. There's no need to cool RAM unless you just want the "cool" factor. You gain nothing from it unless you're REALLY PUSHING them. Running parallel rads isn't advised since water will go the path of least resistance. That means the side with the most restrictive blocks will get the least amount of water. It's much better to run your rads in series if you're sticking with a single pump. You can put the second rad between the CPU and GPU but it isn't really necessary. The GTX doesn't care if it's at 30C or 80C. Personally, i'd run it reservior>pump>rad>rad>CPU>NB>GPU>reservior. This would give you the coldest water possible going straight to your CPU first. The NB and GPU can handle higher temps better, although you're only talking a couple degrees C higher after the water goes through the CPU block.

Axis

+1

[phil178821]

water blocks mentioned above are good,. also consider the Danger Den MC-TDX, block; i like it.

i good, gpu only block that works almost all cards is the Swiftech MCW60; full coverage blocks cannot compete with the performance. obviously, you would then need ram,mosfet,i/o sinks.

now, i am reading your original post correctly:

first, temperature hardly varies across the whole loop. i think you mentioned something about feeding already warmed coolant when in series. however, the temp. will equilibrate very quickly across the loop, thus i series vs parallel, in this instance, wouldnt matter.

now for the flow lost and restriction additions accompanying y fittings, etc, parallel is not worth it.

thus, your best bet is to route your loop in the arrangement of least tubing, which means series.

[phil178821]

second toss/return the aqua bay crap from TT. TT + water = dead system....


Big +1

and looking back , imay have repeated a bunch of what 2nd poster said, not sure if i read his whole post.

[axis01]

Sorry I wasnt clear in my original description, but the rads are in series.. for the very reason you stated.
I am going with watercooling for everything so I dont have to bother with airflow management inside the case. I want my only airflow priority to be with respect to the rads.... I selected 2 rads for the additional cooling potential/headroom.
I am overclocking this but I havent decided yet how far past 4ghz I want to go.

I was commenting on the manifold part of your thread which seemed like you were wanting to run seperate loops with a rad for each. The manifold idea in respect to the individual blocks is also a bad idea for the same reason. Most people think the water is considerably hotter after it comes out of CPU block but it isn't. It only picks up a degree or two while in there. It's the shear amount of water that passes through it that disappates the heat so well. What keeps the overall temps down is how well your rads can disappate that heat. I was suggesting an alternative method of cooling for the GTX as it is a very old card and full coverage blocks are pricey. Your cheapest way out would be to MCW60 it and use heatsinks on the rest of the important parts. If $$ is no issue there are several full coverage blocks that range from $100-150 at Performance PC. How far your E8500 will go depends on your MB and the chip itself. I've seen some go to 4.3+ghz on air while others won't. It's luck of the draw.

Axis

[thorilan]

but if money isnt an object get a faster card first before trying to match a cooling system parts to old standards.

as far as series vs parallel . some people mis understand and think seperate loops is parallel which it isnt. seperate loops is usually the best.

not saying anyone here misunderstood , just clarifying that for someone that might look at the posts when doing a search

[QuietIce]

Sorry I wasnt clear in my original description, but the rads are in series.. for the very reason you stated.
I am going with watercooling for everything so I dont have to bother with airflow management inside the case. I want my only airflow priority to be with respect to the rads.... I selected 2 rads for the additional cooling potential/headroom.
I am overclocking this but I havent decided yet how far past 4ghz I want to go. If I were cooling everything inside the case I'd keep the rads, CPU, and GPU in series but run the NB and RAM in parallel to each other. Neither of those components are heat critical and any WC'ing should keep them well within specs. The loop could look something like:

T-line > pump > rad > rad > CPU > GPU > F-fitting or T > NB/RAM > F-fitting or T
This arrangement leaves the CPU and GPU in the standard series configuration providing maximum cooling for those components while also providing a RAM cooling solution that won't impair loop performance through high restriction (which is the biggest problem facing RAM cooling).

I'd suggest coming out of the GPU with 3/8" tubing so you can use a 3/8x1/4" Swiftech F-fitting to split the NB and RAM lines. Using 3/8" on the NB would balance the NB/RAM part of the loop a little better.

Another way to handle it would be to use a 3/8" T after the GPU and send one 3/8" line into a 1/4x1/4x3/8" Y for RAM blocks in parallel (most of which have 1/4" inlets), using the other 3/8" line for the NB. Going parallel is usually not recommended but in the case of RAM and NB any WC'ing will keep them inside their operating temp range so equal flow isn't as much of an issue. If it becomes an issue for some reason you can always change the tubing sizes to adjust flow.

You could also use manifolds for this part of the loop with the option of adding valves to adjust flow as needed (though I doubt valves would be necessary). With this solution you'd want to come out of the GPU using 1/2" tubing.



CPU blocks: Swiftech GTZ, D-Tek Fuzion v2, EK Supreme as axis01 recommended

GPU block: I really don't like full cover blocks for video. Not only are they expensive they also are very proprietary so if you change video cards you'll also have to buy a new block. On the other hand, the Swiftech MCW-60 is an inexpensive GPU block that's still the best (or one of the best) out there and Swiftech continues to add adapter kits as video manufacturers come out with new mounting solutions. The MCW-60 will still be usable 3 years from now. You will need to provide normal air cooling for the video memory but that can be done with simple PCI slot vents under the video card. It doesn't take a lot of air cooling to keep video RAM inside operating range.

NB block: If it fits your NB the Swiftech MCW-30 is still the bast out there. Very snug mounting and low restriction.

RAM blocks: Never used them and don't read much about them. Air seems to be good enough most of the time, though I can see why you might want them.
(Have you seen the OCZ RAM air coolers? Maybe they could work for you?)


Good luck on whatever you decide and keep us posted! We're always interested in WC solutions ... :)

[Burninate35]

Do not worry too much about the 8800gtx and heat. mine never reaches 60 degrees. That is, it never reaches 60 degrees with its fan @ 100%

And hey, I have an 8800gtx and I considder myself a hard core gamer :p
That "little" best still has a pretty long life ahead of it. plus i will fold/physx on it until it dies.

also I have a pci slot exhaust fan which I flipped around so it would catch the heat that the 8800gtx vents back into the case. It works very well.

Does anyone know why the 8800gtx has that weird "ventalation" spot. It makes more sense to me to just have it closed. Is it air pressure?