PDA

View Full Version : G.Skill Titan MLC SSD


Ashura
01-22-09, 08:17 PM
G.Skill's new Titan MLC SSD, which seems to be the same as OCZ's upcoming Apex MLC SSD, has been released with some impressive reviews.

Frankly we’ve been amazed by the G.Skill Titan’s performance through-out our testing. We’d fully expected another SSD in the mould of the single drive controller based drives we looked at last year, showing signs of promise with solid read performance but crippled with poor write speeds.

Instead we’ve been treated to a drive that’s stunningly in almost every circumstance thanks to an innovative solution that solves many of the problems caused by the slower JMicron drive controller.

Write and Copy performance have improved dramatically thanks to the Titan’s use of dual drive controller chips, banishing the problem of drive stuttering we saw on single chip SSDs in write and copy test and delivering performance that’s on par with Intel’s premium X25 drives in almost every circumstance. However, unlike the X25-M, and even worse the X25-E, the Titan isn’t as limited by the small amount of drive space those drives offer, packing in a healthy 256GB, more than enough for a typical operating system boot drive.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storage/2009/01/20/g-skill-titan-256gb-ssd-review/7

The G.Skill Titan 256 GB SSD consistently performed well. It didn't top all the charts in testing but it performed well all around. Other drives were jumping all around in the charts while the Titan churned out consistently good numbers. Consistent operation across a variety of conditions is a big plus for a drive. We didn't see any transfer numbers that the Titan would have to be ashamed of. Quite the contrary. It pushed numbers that any single drive would love to be able to push.

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1465&pageID=6165

Getting back to the performance, as it really is difficult to ignore even for a second just how fast the G.Skill Titan SATA II 2.5” 128GB SSD really is. When running benchmarks such as PCmark Vantage and HD Tach that only look at read performance, the Intel X25-M 80GB SSD really out-classed the G.Skill Titan, though please keep in mind that this Intel SSD does cost an insane $500 US.

While the Intel X25-M 80GB SSD was incredibly fast when looking at the read performance, its write performance did leave a lot to be desired, particularly when compared to the Titan. Personally, if I had my choice of these two drives there is just no way I would be turning down the G.Skill Titan SATA II 2.5” 128GB SSD, the additional storage capacity and superior write performance just makes it so much better.

Edit: More than a few of you have been concerned with the lack of cache featured on the G.Skill Titan SSD’s. In the past MLC drives that have not been supported by a memory buffer have suffered from a ‘shuddering’ problem which causes the system to constantly hang once the small buffer within the controller is full.

The JMicron 602B controller has been the main culprit, the very controller that is used by the Titan SSD’s. This controller only features a tiny 16KB cache where as the Intel MLC controller scores a much bigger 256KB cache. This shuddering problem is most evident when reading and writing data at the same time.

Extracting a large amount of compressed files while trying to surf the net would be a real-world example of this scenario. However the G.Skill Titan features two JMicron 602B controllers which work in a RAID0 like configuration, and this seems to have solved the shuddering problem, at least as far as we can tell.

For roughly a week now I have been running Windows Vista 64-bit on the G.Skill Titan 128GB SSD, and if I am honest, it is incredible. Previously I was using the Intel X25-M, which was also very good. However there is a noticeable improvement when using the G.Skill Titan 128GB SSD. There is certainly no delay at all, and I have never seen a Core i7 965 Extreme Edition system move with such incredible pace - almost everything is instant!

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=804&p=7

This sounds like the SSD I've been waiting for. I'm currently using a OCZ Core V1 60gb with the SteadyState fix, but as I've mentioned here before the long reboot times and the limited space required for SteadyState have been more than a little annoying. I was planning on getting OCZ's Vertex 60gb whenever it came out, but considering the Titan already has superb performance and at $50 more (based on newegg's price on the 128gb Titan and zipzoomfly's price on the 60gb Vertex) about twice as much space, I've decided to bite the bullet and purchase the 128gb Titan.

(for anyone interested, expect to see a cheap OCZ Core V1 drive in classifieds soon ;))

Shiggity
01-23-09, 01:28 AM
Cool

Albaholic
01-23-09, 01:44 AM
I want one (or two)

Blazing fire
01-23-09, 01:55 AM
I think the SSD market is starting to pick up now, at least I hope so. When would corsair, muskhin etc come up with their own?

Firestrider
01-23-09, 02:58 AM
I think the SSD market is starting to pick up now, at least I hope so. When would corsair, muskhin etc come up with their own?

Here is Corsair's SSD: http://www.dailytech.com/Corsair+Joins+Crowded+SSD+Market+Snubs+JMicron/article14025.htm

cozmo_d
01-23-09, 03:11 AM
that looks realy nice and very good price for the gb

I think im going to wait another 6 months too a year for upgrade cuz I know these are going to start getting 2x as good soon :D

Badbonji
01-23-09, 03:43 AM
I will wait until the price comes down a bit more, then get 2 SSD's for raid 0. The raptor did terrible, I didn't think it was that much slower than 1Tb drives...

Know Nuttin
01-23-09, 04:42 AM
Are you putting the Titan in the 1000H? If so, I'd like to see test results. Thanks!!

Blazing fire
01-23-09, 05:05 AM
Here is Corsair's SSD: http://www.dailytech.com/Corsair+Joins+Crowded+SSD+Market+Snubs+JMicron/article14025.htm

Is it out yet? Cause I don't see it on corsair's website nor any reviews of it. Good find though!

Ashura
01-23-09, 11:10 AM
Is it out yet? Cause I don't see it on corsair's website nor any reviews of it. Good find though!

Newegg has it in stock for $340: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233075&Tpk=corsair%20ssd

Are you putting the Titan in the 1000H? If so, I'd like to see test results. Thanks!!

Drive is set to arrive Monday afternoon, I'll try and have benches up within a day or two.

Vengance_01
01-23-09, 11:50 AM
Keep us posted. A nice 256BG SSD and a single 1TB drive would do well for me. ;)

Endgame124
01-23-09, 05:52 PM
Nice drive it seems, but too much money for too much space. Where is the $40 16GB drive? 3x 16GB drives in Raid 0 would provide all the space I need (OS + a couple of games) for speedy, low latency storage.

wingman99
01-23-09, 07:44 PM
Does the Corsair's SSD stutter or jam up with allot of writes at the same time.:soda:

Ashura
01-23-09, 08:03 PM
It shouldn't considering it has a Samsung controller. I've only heard reports of stuttering with SSDs that had a single JMicron controller.

wingman99
01-23-09, 08:23 PM
It shouldn't considering it has a Samsung controller. I've only heard reports of stuttering with SSDs that had a single JMicron controller.Are they using all Samsung controllers in all new SSDs from all manufactures.

Ashura
01-23-09, 08:54 PM
Are they using all Samsung controllers in all new SSDs from all manufactures.

No, certain ones like G.Skill's Titan and OCZ's Apex are still making use of the JMicron controllers, but designing them in a way so that the stuttering issue is resolved and performance improved (in this instance, through the use of two controllers per drive). OCZ's upcoming Vertex also uses a non-JMicron controller but I've heard that it's not Samsung. Intel's SSDs all make use of an Intel controller. Kingston will be reselling Intel drives.

exe163
01-23-09, 10:09 PM
+1 for vertex. Also there are on board cache with vertex supposely the key to eliminate stutter during random access.

Shiggity
01-24-09, 12:16 AM
Well it depends if they have the new Jmicron controller. Jmicron recently rebuilt theirs with more cache and it will be going on the newer ssd's.

keninishna
01-24-09, 06:06 PM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231243

Newegg reviews for this drive don't seem to be too good which is strange. Apparently people are having same stuttering issues.

exe163
01-24-09, 06:41 PM
No on board cache ftl.

Ashura
01-24-09, 07:19 PM
Eh... I wouldn't go by newegg reviews for now. You've got two negative and two positive, the latter which match the impression the review sites in the OP got along with a bunch of posters at notebookreview who have the drive.

Surfrider77
01-24-09, 08:26 PM
Well it depends if they have the new Jmicron controller. Jmicron recently rebuilt theirs with more cache and it will be going on the newer ssd's.

OCZ has confirmed the new Vertex drives are NOT JMicron based controllers.

Ashura
01-27-09, 08:17 AM
Titan arrived last night. For the record, I'm using an ASUS 1000H with 2gb of RAM, Vista Ultimate and every tweak mentioned here (http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47212) except for the Ramdisk, running Vista in performance mode and disabling of pagefile.

I uninstalled SteadyState and used Acronis to clone the Core V1 onto the Titan. Benchmarks aren't as good as they should be and I think it might have to do with me cloning instead of fresh installing, so I'm gonna hold off posting them till tonight or tomorrow when I do a fresh install.

Initial impression based on the cloning is that the Titan is a huge improvement over the Core without SteadyState, but slower than the Core with SteadyState. By slower I don't mean benchmark-wise, more the whole snappy opening of apps, zero slowdown performance you expect from an SSD. I would assume the Titan with SteadyState would be faster than all three configurations, but that's not a desirable option so I'm not going to bother to try it out.

I'll give an update on performance after I've done a fresh install of Vista. If at that point I'm not as impressed as I'd like to be, I'll probably still be buying the Vertex and then selling in the classifieds the worst of the two.

wingman99
01-27-09, 08:33 AM
with SSD cloning should not make any difference:beer:

Ashura
01-27-09, 08:39 AM
I can't remember if I re-formated and recreated a partition when installing Vista on the Core drive, so I can't guarantee that partition alignment occurred. Reinstalling will let me get that out of the way and also confirm whether or not the benchmarks I saw with cloning are par for the course.

mgoode
01-29-09, 04:13 AM
Have you experienced any stuttering? Let us know how it goes if you do a fresh install, as I am thinking about making the jump to SSD and am partial to gskill:)

Ashura
01-29-09, 07:49 AM
Haven't had time to do a reinstall yet (I'm gonna try tonight) but even with that factor, I've experience zero stuttering.

EDIT: Can't find my flash drive, ordered another one so I won't be installing Vista till tomorrow night. I'll have the benches up and impressions of a fresh installed Titan by Saturday morning.

Blackstar
01-29-09, 07:56 AM
Anyone know the expected lifetime of these drives?

I've read some reviews that say Mac OS X, Linux and Vista do better with these and OS's like Win 98 do the worst. No one listed the times for the former OS's, but one manufacture said, if one used Windows98 the SSD drive would be dead within a year. :eek:

Also does it die all at once or is there some type of warning/safety system in place like S.M.A.R.T to give you an advanced warning of drive failure?


- Blackstar

Shiggity
01-29-09, 01:40 PM
OCZ has confirmed the new Vertex drives are NOT JMicron based controllers.

Yeah, sadly almost everyone lost confidence in the JMICRON controller, if their new one isn't amazing they are in trouble.

Ashura
01-31-09, 09:10 PM
Okay, sorry for the delay in getting these up. Even after reinstalling Vista with proper partition allignment, benchmarks on the 1000H were way too low compared to what the review sites were showing and I was driving myself crazy trying to figure out why. It turned out to be pretty simple, the 1000H is SATA 1.5 instead of 3.0. So, I brought over the Titan to a desktop and cloned over the hard drive and got these results:

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/1281/capturemx8.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7280/hdtunebenchmarkgskilltisk1.png

On the 1000H reads were closer to 120, I'll post screenshots of those benches soon.

Now, in terms of subjective experience, the Titan was really fast. I used it for almost a week on the 1000H and I've had zero stuttering issues, everything is extremely snappy even if I'm multitasking a million things at once. Only time I experienced slowdown on the 1000H was due to limitations of the Atom (ie. flash heavy websites). Earlier I mentioned that it was slower than the Core w/ SteadyState and I take that back, once I reinstalled and performed all the necessary tweaks, performance on the Titan was pretty much equal.

When I purchased the Titan 128gb it was $300 from newegg. Considering the speed and space I got, I think it was worth every penny.

Benches from the 1000H coming in a bit.

Know Nuttin
02-01-09, 05:25 AM
Thanks for the update, looking forward to the benches. I would love for G.Skill to have a 64GB model as the 128GB is too rich for my blood for a netbook. I will have to see how the Apex performs as they have a 64GB unless G.Skill does come out with one.

DavidJa
02-01-09, 12:11 PM
would an ATTO run be possible please?

Ashura
02-01-09, 07:28 PM
Here's an ATTO run from the desktop, haven't gotten a chance to rebench the 1000H yet.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7818/capturejt6.jpg

Ashura
02-02-09, 10:03 AM
Know Nuttin, here are the benchmarks on the 1000H:

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1303/hdtachho8.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1525/hdtunefq3.jpg
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/6697/attomn5.jpg

What's strange is that access time and read have both gone down a bit in HDTune and HDTach, with prior Vista installations they were 0.2 and 120ish consistently. With the most recent installations on the 1000H, they're consistently 0.3 and 115ish. The ATTO benches remain the exact same. Any idea what would cause this change?

Benches from re-installations on the desktop are consistent with the benches I posted earlier so it has something to do with the 1000H but I don't know what. I'm 99% sure I didn't do anything different compared to the first couple of installs.

EDIT: Ah, going over the OCZ forums I noticed that the partition alignment offset for a single Apex drive, which is pretty much the same thing as the Titan, should be 128k or 256k. I aligned with 64k. I'll re-allign and re-bench tonight.

DavidJa
02-02-09, 01:35 PM
Thanks!
There's a review somewhere about the place that shows HDTune and HDTach would produce very erratic and different results depending on the ssd and the controller they were connected to with ATTO producing the most consistent.

edit: oh evil found back the review in this thread http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=594219
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=270&Itemid=38&limit=1&limitstart=0

Know Nuttin
02-02-09, 11:28 PM
I wouldn't put much faith in hdtune or hdtach, not until they come out with ssdtune or ssdtach ;)

Unfortunately, there aren't any good solid SSD benchmarks at this time. It's still relatively new and a great run with ATTO/HDTune/HDTach do not really show how the drive performs in daily use. Stuttering doesn't show up on these benchmarks which tend to be the biggest issue with cheaper SSD's and use of the JM602 controller.

MassiveOverkill
02-05-09, 05:35 AM
My results: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1391213