WCing Arrangement question (fan filter Q also)

[phil178821]

Now I am not sure, maybe some of you will have some thoughts on this, however, I feel maybe trying out each set up is the only way to definitely know. But, I figured I would ask anyway.

So, I have a MM Pinnacle 24 Case. The thing is massive and offers me two options for mounting my Rad.

WCing Hardware is:
DD MC-TDX
MCW30 and MCW60
Laing D5 vario
Swiftech MCRES rev2
Tygon 7/16" tubing
TC 120.3pa Rad with Medium yates.


Here is my current set up:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/phil178821/DSCN0163-1.jpg





As you can see, if I mounted the rad up top instead of in front, I would definitely be using less tubing, however, I would not be able to use any shrouds. On top of that, I would be using warmed up case air to cool the rad.

so its pretty much.

1) Rad in front = more tubing, but fresh, external air and use of shrouds.

2) rad up top = much less tubing, but case air and no shrouds.

also, if i keep my rad in front like it is right now, how inversely will putting some filters to keep out the big bunnies affect its performance?


oh and also, I have thought about leaving the rad and just moving the res, which would save some tubing. I just haven't gotten around to that.
Thanks guys,

Phil

[muddocktor]

With the blocks you are using with that D5, there is no real need to shorten tubing for better flow. All 3 blocks are low restriction designs and you aren't taxing the pump at all with that loop. If you want to mess around with the loop, drop the res down closer to the pump. As for using the case air to cool the rad (if you move it up top), you basically will see no real performance difference. The MM cases move enough air through them that temps on the exhaust fans are probably within a degree of the intake temps. And shrouds on a PA rad are a bit overrated IMO. With a heater core I would say yes, but the PA rads already come with a 15 mm or so standoff built into them. As for filters, I'm using these ones (http://www.jab-tech.com/Fan-filters-c-170.html) on my U2-UFO and they don't restrict much flow when clean and keep the bigger, fluffier stiff out of the case.

[phil178821]

With the blocks you are using with that D5, there is no real need to shorten tubing for better flow. All 3 blocks are low restriction designs and you aren't taxing the pump at all with that loop. If you want to mess around with the loop, drop the res down closer to the pump. As for using the case air to cool the rad (if you move it up top), you basically will see no real performance difference. The MM cases move enough air through them that temps on the exhaust fans are probably within a degree of the intake temps. And shrouds on a PA rad are a bit overrated IMO. With a heater core I would say yes, but the PA rads already come with a 15 mm or so standoff built into them. As for filters, I'm using these ones (http://www.jab-tech.com/Fan-filters-c-170.html) on my U2-UFO and they don't restrict much flow when clean and keep the bigger, fluffier stiff out of the case.

Thanks a lot Mudd. I completely forgot to think about my blocks. One of the reasons I went with the DD MC-TDX was the low restrictiveness.

Another thought. Do you think my slightly above ambient cpu temps are due to rad saturation or just poor contact with my cpu block? I can definitely say it has a few nicks in it due to my poor treatment.

Either way, I prob going to upgrade from the MC-TDX cause I have an acrylic top which i don't trust. Do you think if I swap to a apogee GTZ, it will change what you said above, Mudd?

Thanks again.

[Pntgrd]

Looking at the 2 short bends in your loop makes me want some of that Tygon. I can't do that short with my Masterkleer without some ties to keep away the kinks. And, in my opinion, you can never go wrong with a GTZ :beer:

[phil178821]

Looking at the 2 short bends in your loop makes me want some of that Tygon. I can't do that short with my Masterkleer without some ties to keep away the kinks. And, in my opinion, you can never go wrong with a GTZ :beer:

ah you caught me!!! lol, those bends weren't done using my regular tygon.. But NOTE, I am not certain that the Tygon CAN'T do those bends. The tubing couldn't make it in my old Lian Li case. This mountain mods case allows me to come higher with the bend, thus giving me a little bit large radius to work with, so the tygon may have work.

but, i used this (http://www.petrastechshop.com/1id3odviviti.html) in those bends.

[Spawn-Inc]

ah you caught me!!! lol, those bends weren't done using my regular tygon.. But NOTE, I am not certain that the Tygon CAN'T do those bends. The tubing couldn't make it in my old Lian Li case. This mountain mods case allows me to come higher with the bend, thus giving me a little bit large radius to work with, so the tygon may have work.

but, i used this (http://www.petrastechshop.com/1id3odviviti.html) in those bends.

i knew that!!!!


you can tell at just how perfect they are with there bend. and how to starts to go straight.

[baditude_df]

Phil the acrylic top on your MC-TDX should not be an issue. I maxed mine out for it's entire life, and I'm sure paul9555 did it while he had it. Now it's on to a new owner. The trouble might come in if you try to do a custom bolt through with it to get more tension. But regardless, the simple design affords it more than sufficient strength and seal on the o-ring. Tough little suckers those tdx's.

From my personal experience, there was no noticeable difference at all in temperatures at the CPU from the FuzionV2 to the MC-TDX, so I can't imagine that it's going to be worth your time money or effort to switch out to a GTZ. As far as I'm concerned the only difference was the hype that the Fuzion V2 received.
The MC-TDX was a GREAT performer for me, just not as hyped as the V2(or the GTZ for that matter).

That being said, the MC-TDX and the GTZ would probably be the two closest block to each other(in the high end category) when it comes to flowrate restriction (low), so I think you'd be just fine in that respect if you switched.

I do have a GTZ on the way to throw on my i7, to see how well it stacks up against the EK Supreme that's up there now. I know it's not 775 but If you'd like you can wait for a quick comparison to help make your decision.
But unfortunately I have not had a chance to compare the MC-TDX to the GTZ.

[muddocktor]

I have compared my MC-TDX to my first GTZ on the same system and I consistently saw a 3-5 C drop in temps on a Q6600 with the GTZ. And like you phil, I just don't trust acrylic for my wb top or mounting bracket, so I had my MC-TDX built with a brass top and the DD metal universal mount. But I am seeing great temps on the PH 2 940BE system with the MC-TDX, with temps running at 38-40 C while crunching Seti. I have not run that system with a GTZ though, so I can't give a direct comparison between the 2 on an AMD system. I will say though that the problems with the acrylic top cracking around the barb holes shouldn't be bad now though, since DD changed from NPT threaded holes to G1/4 threads in the holes. The old NPT thread holes used friction from the tapered thread to seal with and that would cause stress cracks in the acrylic. Since G1/4 is a straight thread design and relies on an o-ring for sealing, that eliminates a lot of the stress on the acrylic at the barb holes. I still don't trust acrylic for my mounting bracket, but that's just me.

As for replacing the MC-TDX with a GTZ, you shouldn't have any problems with your setup. It's not that restrictive a block to where it would compromise your cooling. And I like the mount design on the GTZ much better too as it's pretty foolproof. With my MC-TDX (on LGA775) I modified a TR backplate to accept the 6/32 studs that DD sends with the wb so I could get a lot more uniform pressure on the mobo instead of point loading at the 4 holes in the board. For AM2, the DD studs screw right into the backplate that came with my M3A79-T board.

[baditude_df]

Yes, the one major downfall of the MC-TDX -- the crappy mounting system. Too bad really. I was suprised to see the EK Supreme had the same mounting system. You would think by shelling out that much cash, that they could include a quality backplate for 1366 like the one included with the GTZ 1366 plate.
Not a huge issue since I've got a huge back plate right under my mobo:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9787/imgp0174ur6.th.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp0174ur6.jpg)http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/637/imgp0202qj4.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp0202qj4.jpg)http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/9125/imgp0222kv0.th.jpg (http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp0222kv0.jpg)

Mud, I seem to remember that comparison you did, but on a quick search I cannot find it, do you have it documented?
Regardless, it's refreshing to see other people who like to try products for themselves and find out what the difference would be to them on their rig at home, instead of just reading reviews and spouting empirical lab results from martins liquid lab(although that's a great place for some info you might not be able to test for yourself). Good on ya.

[muddocktor]

Here's the link (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=591557) to my testing of the GTZ and MC-TDX.

As far as testing various blocks and heatsinks goes, I enjoy my hobby and have enough disposable income to play with various things. Like you said, Martin's and now skinnee's labs are great resources, but nothing beats hands-on testing. And I don't get free samples either, but I have gotten some help from John at Jab-tech on prices on a few items. And DD gave me a good deal on the MC-TDX too after I was so disappointed in their LGA775 brass top for the old RBX I have laying around.

[baditude_df]

Thank you mud.

[2C@nts4U]

If you are looking for better temps from what I can see.....

are you not cooling your GPU, NB, then the CPU.... from what I understand you should go Pump, Rad, CPU, NB, GPU....as for the Rad do a Push/Pull at the top of your case or leave it as is ( I too am still on the fence about shrouds)

[QuietIce]

There are such small variations across the loop that block order doesn't matter as much as short runs do - and they don't matter too much with 1/2" tubing.


For those wanting to run a tight bend Tygon thin-walled tubing and SmartCoils do a great job ...! :)

[muddocktor]

TFor those wanting to run a tight bend Tygon thin-walled tubing and SmartCoils do a great job ...! :)

Yes, those Smart Coils do a great job of supporting the tubing in a tight bend and keep it from kinking.

[phil178821]

do you guys think my hardware is saturating this Thermochill rad? Do you think I will get better temps by adding another 120mm or 2x120mm rad in the top?

I currently Idle in the mid to high twenties and load in the mid forties.


I am considering running a bunch of tests and making a post about push/pull and rad with my set up. I know others have donr this before, including Martins. Do you think it would be worth my time going through and checking this out?

[muddocktor]

Honestly, those temps are very good and nothing to worry about. Especially considering that you have a gpu in the loop also. Another rad might help but it won't be much more. What do your temps do when you clock that E6600 up some more? Do the temps rise drastically? Also, what do your temps do when you run something like OCCT or P95 and Furmark at the same time? Do your temps keep steadily climbing? If the temps do a drastic jump when loading up like that, then you might be getting to the point of saturation on that PA120.3. But I'm kind of doubting it, with you running a dual core proc and a single vid card and nb block. Personally I think a GTZ would help out more, but I would first test with P95 or OCCT and Furmark running so everything is as loaded as you can get and see what the temps do.

[phil178821]

yeah, its probably unnecesary to do any upgrades. Idk, I am just board and want to do some tinkering. Plus, I always want the best! lol.

So I ran OCCT for about 40 minutes, you can see the screen shot after about 20 mins. The temps appeared to constantly dance between 41 and 45, generally spending more time in the lower end. VGA temps (which is at stock speeds) never increased above 34. I also started up super pi and didnt see any noticeable changes with the temps. seems the loop is doing pretty well in this massive MM case. Also, vcore is set to 1.2875 in the bios. You can see some pretty good droop in cpuz.


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/phil178821/load1.png



http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/phil178821/2009-02-10-19h07-CPU1.png


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/phil178821/2009-02-10-19h07-CPU2.png


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/phil178821/2009-02-10-19h07-GPU1.png


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/phil178821/2009-02-10-19h07-VCore.png



Thanks for all of the input .

[baditude_df]

Idk, I am just board and want to do some tinkering.

lol. Precicely why a GTZ just arrived on my doorstep today from Petra's.

I mean for god's sake I have a perfectly good EK supreme sitting on my i7 right now.

I don't need anything new, but it's totally a hobby.

[muddocktor]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I have a copper TRUE, a TRUE an Ultra 120 and a Fuzion v1 all sitting in the box just because they were something I wanted to try out of were a heck of a good deal (the Fuzion). Not to mention an RBX, a Storm Rev 2 and a couple of old Maze 1C blocks too. All were bought because this is my hobby and I enjoy trying out various different things on the cooling side.

[phil178821]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I have a copper TRUE, a TRUE an Ultra 120 and a Fuzion v1 all sitting in the box just because they were something I wanted to try out of were a heck of a good deal (the Fuzion). Not to mention an RBX, a Storm Rev 2 and a couple of old Maze 1C blocks too. All were bought because this is my hobby and I enjoy trying out various different things on the cooling side.

Yeah.. this is definitely way too expensive of a habit.

so what do you guys think of those temps?