SSD, VelociRaptor, RAID.... ???

[subverb]

So I keep hearing problems from people with SSDs, though at the same time keep hearing things about how much faster they are than a WD VR300GB or a RAID setup. My questions are kinda jumbled so I apologize ahead of time...

1) What costs are involved with a SSD besides the drive itself? I guess you need to buy a hardware RAID card for them to work?? I thought you just plug them in like normal HDD?

2) What are good and relatively cheap costing SSDs that aren't limited to like 32gb? I was looking over at newegg and saw some with 128GB and up, stay away from those? Figure if I'm buying an expensive drive I'd like to have enough space to install things I would be using most frequently besides just Windows.

3) Is the WD VR300GB worthwhile over today's current SSDs given my desire for storage?

4) Would RAID of a couple 7200rpm be best reserved for storage against a SSD/WD VR300GB

5) What is the purpose of a hardware RAID card versus RAID setup through BIOS like in that sticky? I see these cards for sale in the classifieds for over $200 and have no clue what they are for.

Thanks for the help guys, just so lost and thinking I'm mis-reading posts.

[Surfrider77]

1) You just buy the card and plug it in to a SATA port just like a normal SSD. If you want to raid SSD, its highly suggested to use hardware raid. This is only because built-in motherboard software raid is handled so poorly. SSDs can truely scale in multiples with a hardware raid card. If you want a single drive, its a non-issue.

2) You really need to do some research on what make / model you are purchasing. For a quick suggestion, mine would be to wait a week or two and get the OCZ Vertex lineup. They just had final firmware approved and are shipping. They should hit vendors very soon.

3) You mention storage... are you looking at a single drive for your entire PC? Most use SSDs or raided VRs for a system / game / applications drive. This is where you see the speed benefit greatly. A lot of people, like myself, will use a standard large capacity hard drive for storage of documents, music, videos, etc. (2 drive system)

4) The only raid I use for storage is RAID1 (mirror) for data protection in case of failure. Am I understanding your question here?

5) Basically, I touched on this earlier. The BIOS raid is software emulated basically eating your CPU cycles for various RAID functions. Most handle it poorly and if you look at sustained read / write they tend to have a lot of spikes and dips. If you invest in a solid RAID card (they can be quite pricey) the card will have its own processor onboard dedicated to RAID, along with other options like large cache etc. If you look at the same sustained read / write benchmarks, they tend to be a pretty flat line of sustained speed.

Let me see if I can dig up my old SSD benchmark from a year+ ago...

[Surfrider77]

Ok, here is someone with 4xMtron Mobi drives on an older 680i motherboard's built in raid. You can see the heavy spiking occourring clearly.

[Surfrider77]

This is my system benchmark from a year ago with 4xMtron Pro drives on an Areca 1231ML hardware raid card. You can see the scaling in perfect multiples (each card is rated approx 120MB/s) and relatively flat sustained read rate.

Keep in mind, some newer SSDs are twice the read speeds of these old drives now.

[subverb]

1) You just buy the card and plug it in to a SATA port just like a normal SSD. If you want to raid SSD, its highly suggested to use hardware raid. This is only because built-in motherboard software raid is handled so poorly. SSDs can truely scale in multiples with a hardware raid card. If you want a single drive, its a non-issue.

Good to know, thanks for the clarification on that one.

2) You really need to do some research on what make / model you are purchasing. For a quick suggestion, mine would be to wait a week or two and get the OCZ Vertex lineup. They just had final firmware approved and are shipping. They should hit vendors very soon.

Any idea on price and capacities?

3) You mention storage... are you looking at a single drive for your entire PC? Most use SSDs or raided VRs for a system / game / applications drive. This is where you see the speed benefit greatly. A lot of people, like myself, will use a standard large capacity hard drive for storage of documents, music, videos, etc. (2 drive system)

The SSD would be system/game/applications I just happen to have quite a few apps on my system. I mean games take up quite a bit of space these days. The rest would be on either a single 7.2k HDD or 2 in RAID.

4) The only raid I use for storage is RAID1 (mirror) for data protection in case of failure. Am I understanding your question here?

Forget this question, I can't remember what exactly I meant at the moment. I think I was leaning towards something about in terms of would the speed advantages of a SSD/WD VR300GB make any sense as a storage drive when I could do a RAID setup? (using the BIOS to do like a RAID 1 or 0)

5) Basically, I touched on this earlier. The BIOS raid is software emulated basically eating your CPU cycles for various RAID functions. Most handle it poorly and if you look at sustained read / write they tend to have a lot of spikes and dips. If you invest in a solid RAID card (they can be quite pricey) the card will have its own processor onboard dedicated to RAID, along with other options like large cache etc. If you look at the same sustained read / write benchmarks, they tend to be a pretty flat line of sustained speed.

Let me see if I can dig up my old SSD benchmark from a year+ ago...

Oh, I figured it had to be some kind of performance gain given the prices for these things to still be considered. Is the benefit of a RAID card noticeable when everyday using or is it something that really only shows in a benchmark? And is it limited to mainly using a couple SSD in RAID to get a RAID card, like not needed for normal 7.2k HDDs?

Thanks.

[ou_phidelt]

2. Depends on what you want out of it. For an OS drive the lowest cost drives I would consider are the Intel X-25M at ~$380 for 80GB and the OCZ Vertex at ~$250 for 60GB. The final verdict on the Vertex is still up for debate due to the unknown of the final, shipping firmware. If you wanted a secondary drive for game installs you could go with a cheaper drive such as the G.Skill Titan or OCZ Core V2. ~$130-$150 for 64GB. Reason being you would only primarily be reading from the drives so the poor, stuttering, write performance isn't really an issue.

5. One of the biggest reasons RAID cards have become so popular for SSD's is because it helps eliminate stuttering. The Readers Digest version is the lower priced SSD's use J.Micron controllers and no cache. These combined lead to stuttering during small writes. Using a RAID card helps elimninate this due to the on-board cache they posses. For a low cost RAID card look for a used Dell Perc. Make sure you do your research though as they have their quirks you need to make yourself aware of.

[subverb]

2. Depends on what you want out of it. For an OS drive the lowest cost drives I would consider are the Intel X-25M at ~$380 for 80GB and the OCZ Vertex at ~$250 for 60GB. The final verdict on the Vertex is still up for debate due to the unknown of the final, shipping firmware. If you wanted a secondary drive for game installs you could go with a cheaper drive such as the G.Skill Titan or OCZ Core V2. ~$130-$150 for 64GB. Reason being you would only primarily be reading from the drives so the poor, stuttering, write performance isn't really an issue.

Hmmm... Sounds like an upgrade for another day - at least for me and my needs. I am not using my machine for work but for play and school work so until the prices and the stuttering issues are resolved think I'll pass. Suddenly Raptors and VR don't seem as expensive as they did previously... they'd make a nice poor mans alternative in the meantime at the very least.

5. One of the biggest reasons RAID cards have become so popular for SSD's is because it helps eliminate stuttering. The Readers Digest version is the lower priced SSD's use J.Micron controllers and no cache. These combined lead to stuttering during small writes. Using a RAID card helps elimninate this due to the on-board cache they posses. For a low cost RAID card look for a used Dell Perc. Make sure you do your research though as they have their quirks you need to make yourself aware of.

I saw the comments people made about Dell Perc problems with Intel chipsets needing modifications to work and issues requiring active cooling due to heat concerns with the processor. I did see some gorgeous cards on Newegg with like 2GB cache and so forth - if only money wasn't a concern. :beer: