View Full Version : Fold or Crunch??
Hey guys,
I've been messing around with folding@home and Boinc Seti crunching for a little bit, off and on. I'm now looking to get going on a regular basis. My rig is in my sig, and I'm just wondering what you guys thought would be best to concentrate my efforts on... folding team or seti team? I'm looking to do some work for OCF, just wondering what I could get the best results from.
And yes I realize where I posted this... can you tell which one I'm leaning towards? :)
Not having really looked into it, I'm also wondering if I can use my GPU's to seti crunch, or is that limited to folding?
Thanks a bunch guys... looking forward to helping out :attn:
Well, I'll leave the decision up to you, but I will answer your last question. Yes, you can crunch SETI on GPUs. At this point, its Nvidia only though.
toomnymods
03-12-09, 05:34 PM
we'd love to have ya.. think our team is in the top 6-7 in the world currently..
could always use more power.. :P
eaglescouter
03-12-09, 10:22 PM
Yes. Fold or Crunch. Its the right thing to do (assuming you join the right team)
Aynjell
03-12-09, 11:43 PM
I don't do either, but if I understand the projects correctly, one is finding cures to diseases, and the other is looking for extra terrestrial life. I'd pick a side, and focus on it. Personally, I'd go for helping cure diseases. I don't believe in extra terrestrials.
QuietIce
03-13-09, 12:27 AM
SETI isn't just "ET phone home", though that is the basis for what we do. The advancements in radio astronomy and cryptography it brings with it are often overlooked ...
It doesn't matter whether you believe in ExtraTerrestrial life or not, it believes in YOU
Well I'm pretty much set on SETI, because I DO believe in life outside of this spec of a planet we have.
Any ideas on when ATI cards will be in the mix? I'd really like to use my 4850's, instead of them sitting there idle.
Also can you guys tell me how I join the OC forums team, and start reporting towards their results?
Voodoo Rufus
03-13-09, 12:03 PM
Seti also helps with other cool things like discovering pulsars, black holes and other phenomena if I'm not mistaken.
QuietIce
03-13-09, 12:12 PM
Well I'm pretty much set on SETI, because I DO believe in life outside of this spec of a planet we have.
Any ideas on when ATI cards will be in the mix? I'd really like to use my 4850's, instead of them sitting there idle.
Also can you guys tell me how I join the OC forums team, and start reporting towards their results? On your account screen their should be a place in the (used to be) upper right-hand corner where you can join a team. Our official SETI team name is Overclockers.com. For more information you can use the link(s) in my sig or get back to us with specific questions about the process. BOINC is really pretty easy to set up, the optimizers are a little more complicated but not too bad ... :)
LandShark
03-13-09, 01:53 PM
Well I'm pretty much set on SETI, because I DO believe in life outside of this spec of a planet we have.
Any ideas on when ATI cards will be in the mix? I'd really like to use my 4850's, instead of them sitting there idle.
Also can you guys tell me how I join the OC forums team, and start reporting towards their results?
another way that you could contribute! crunch seti w/ your CPU as you do right now, but fold on your otherwise idling ATI card! best of both world! http://landshark-racing.com/icon/thumbsup.gif
QuietIce
03-13-09, 08:15 PM
I knew someone tried that and had a terrible time getting BOINC and F@H to play well together. It's a good idea IF the bugs can be worked out ...
I actually was trying out both when I had my quad installed. And the folding program didn't like it when seti was running. If I'm not mistaken I think the GPU folding program still utilizes some of the idle processor. I always had to run them separate, depending on my mood at the time :) I know I didn't have the Gpu setup right, because it wasn't utilizing both cards of my Xfire.
I actually was trying out both when I had my quad installed. And the folding program didn't like it when seti was running. If I'm not mistaken I think the GPU folding program still utilizes some of the idle processor.
Folding with ATI cards still use a lot of CPU power. I tried folding on my ATI GPU and it took up an entire CPU also. Nvidia cards do not use as much CPU. I guess ATI drivers are not streamlined as well as Nvidia drivers when folding is considered.
On your account screen their should be a place in the (used to be) upper right-hand corner where you can join a team. Our official SETI team name is Overclockers.com. For more information you can use the link(s) in my sig or get back to us with specific questions about the process. BOINC is really pretty easy to set up, the optimizers are a little more complicated but not too bad ... :)
What optimizers should I be using?
Rickdstik
03-16-09, 09:23 AM
In regards to using ATI cards, there was a thread not too long ago that said verion 6.8 I believe will be able to utilize ATI cards. Now if we could just get an idea of when it's coming, that'd be great. Personally, I'm building rogue to use my 4870(s) and am going to drop a 9800 in skeletor and watch the number fly. Though should 6.8 show itself before I get too far into the Rogue project, then I'll pick up another 4870 for skeletor and run with the pair I have in rogue.
QuietIce
03-16-09, 09:39 AM
What optimizers should I be using? http://lunatics.kwsn.net/index.php?module=Downloads;sa=dlview;id=121 for your 9550 and Vista x64.
But you should read through the optimizer thread (Upgrade those optimizers!!! link in my sig) for instructions - they vary depending on your platform ...
I'm not sure what the current optimizations are for SETI, I'm sure someone else will chime in.
I knew someone tried that and had a terrible time getting BOINC and F@H to play well together. It's a good idea IF the bugs can be worked out ...
Some of the folks crunching Rosetta (BOINC) have had luck folding on the GPU and BOINC on the CPU. I tried it with running BOINC @ 75% cpu usage on a quad. that left 25% to keep the GPU "fed" (ATI card) Driver issues (I think) made me abandon the idea. I kept coming back to my rig to find out it was at it's lowest resolution and 4 bit color, but still crunching.
on a side note, I've got a pair of 8800gt's. is it possible with SETI's gpu client to run just the GPU on SETI and other BOINC projects on the CPU? (without to much of an impact on either one.)
http://lunatics.kwsn.net/index.php?module=Downloads;sa=dlview;id=121 for your 9550 and Vista x64.
But you should read through the optimizer thread (Upgrade those optimizers!!! link in my sig) for instructions - they vary depending on your platform ...
Thanks Ice. Sadly I got rid of the 9550, and replaced it with the 720BE. Don't get me wrong I'm definitely happy with the triple, but every now and then I do miss seeing 4 active cores :)
And I'll be reading your optimizers link... thanks.
i would go for f@h, just because your gpus would be idle during seti
switch to seti when the ati s@h support comes out ^^
Where do I place the optimizers in vista 64? Having trouble locating the projects folder.
I'm now doing work for the OC forums team !:)
Voodoo Rufus
03-16-09, 09:19 PM
I have successfully run Seti and Folding simultaneously. Boinc was running CPU-only and I was running the GPU2 client on my graphics cards. Do both if you want to. :)
Rufus, the problem he'll run into is that ATI GPu folding is not very cpu friendly.. On a dual core it will use nearly a full core.
QuietIce
03-17-09, 10:14 AM
Where do I place the optimizers in vista 64? Having trouble locating the projects folder.
I'm now doing work for the OC forums team !:) :cool::thup:
In Vista Premium64 it's under C:\Users\All Users\BOINC\projects\setiathome.berkeley.edu ...
:cool::thup:
In Vista Premium64 it's under C:\Users\All Users\BOINC\projects\setiathome.berkeley.edu ...
Ahhh.... thanks! I just got done looking through the pictures of your Seti Farm, very impressive, that's alot of stuff! What do you estimate it cost you for power?
QuietIce
03-17-09, 10:54 AM
Maybe $50/month beyond what we would normally use if I weren't crunching. That's a total of ten rigs running 24/7 assuming ~200 watts each minus a guess at what "normal usage" would be. Missouri is lucky enough to be one of the power surplus states so electricity is cheap compared to some parts of the country ... :)
OK looking for some help here. I dropped the optimizers in yesterday, and everything seemed to be working fine. It didn't give me any special message when I reopened BOINC though. It ran fine for a few hours then. When I woke up this morning I checked to see how much work it had done, but I hadn't been credited for any of the work that was finished all night. Is this typical? I made sure that they were all reported, which they were, but still no record. I also noticed that I hadn't gotten any credit for the work it has done today either. Any thoughts, or am I just missing something?
eaglescouter
03-23-09, 10:35 PM
It can take 20 or more days for your wingman to crunch the same unit and return it. Only when two machines return similar results will you receive credit/points.
Aynjell
03-23-09, 10:44 PM
It can take 20 or more days for your wingman to crunch the same unit and return it. Only when two machines return similar results will you receive credit/points.
I had always wonder how this occurred. It seemed silly to me to have a bunch of random joes running this type of work on a bunch of unconfirmed computers... I'm glad there's some error checking involved, especially since folding is most prominent in overclocking circles... and even though some people SWEAR it's stable... I find that's not always the case.
It can take 20 or more days for your wingman to crunch the same unit and return it. Only when two machines return similar results will you receive credit/points.
Ahhhhh! Thanks for clearing that up for me :) I knew there was error checking but, obviously I didn't know how it worked.
I think I might be getting an additional quad online here shortly, and maybe a Kuma Dual... and so the Seti obession begins...
QuietIce
03-23-09, 11:57 PM
Your units should still show up in your computer's task pages - they'll just say "pending" in the "Granted Credit" column instead of having a number there ...
Your units should still show up in your computer's task pages - they'll just say "pending" in the "Granted Credit" column instead of having a number there ...
Well I definitely see a lull on the 23rd, but like you guys said it might be normal. http://boinc.setiatwork.com/team/stats.cgi?teamid=30199&userid=9006389#target_user
I don't even have a steady RAC yet, so I don't really have much to compare to :) It's kind of lonely down here at the bottom, at least I'll be in the top 500 with in a day or so... hahahaha 500.
QuietIce
03-24-09, 09:27 AM
Ah - here you are ...
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/results.php?hostid=4843780&offset=0&show_names=0&state=2
http://boincstats.com/stats/host_stats.php?pr=sah&st=0&userid=9006389&active=1
Rickdstik
03-26-09, 09:42 AM
Im probably not too far from pulling Skeletor to folding. 36+ hours looking for work, getting rather frustrating. Not seeing any movement on a ATI BOINC client either. So 2.4 TFLops sitting idle 18-20 hours a day. Will leave nine and workbox on BOINC, but this running out of work issue seems to be getting worse, not better.
QuietIce
03-26-09, 02:37 PM
How many days has it been running our of work ...?
Voodoo Rufus
03-26-09, 03:08 PM
I don't know, but I ran out yesterday afternoon and am still dry. All cores idle. :(
eaglescouter
03-26-09, 05:18 PM
March 24, 2009
We are currently managing several problems with the science database server. The database will be okay, but it is currently offline. It was take a while before we are fully back up and running normally. In the meantime we will mostly be unable to create new workunits, so expect your clients to run idle for the next few days (unless you are running other BOINC projects!).
This is why I run a 10 day cache with an additional 10 days selected. (Numbers only work properly for unoptimized clients, but it sure helps)
I've got 3 rigs that are running AP, because they wouldn't pick up MB WU's. Luckily I got a few AP's to keep them going (they're fairly slow :)). My main rig has been working on it's 10 MB cache, and they're starting to get low.
Voodoo Rufus
03-26-09, 07:59 PM
This is why I run a 10 day cache with an additional 10 days selected. (Numbers only work properly for unoptimized clients, but it sure helps)
Doesn't help enough when you run through a 10 day cache in 3-4 because of optimized clients. :bang head
Do you guys run both AP and MB? Are there any drawbacks to running AstroPulse, other than the time factor? Is it worth the same, on a credit per CPU time basis, or not?
mils128
03-27-09, 08:55 AM
From what i have heard is that Astrpulse takes a lot more time then MB and is usually not even worth it because the amount of credit give is liess then the time it takes to crunch MB's.
AS for work my computer went through its 10 day cache in less then 10 hours, so i didn't have work for a full 2 days. I looked this morning and my computer had actually received a bit of work, not 10 days worth but maybe 2 hours worth, hopefully this drought of work will end soon
From what i have heard is that Astrpulse takes a lot more time then MB and is usually not even worth it because the amount of credit give is liess then the time it takes to crunch MB's.
So Here's the skinny on how my Main rig performs with AP vs. MB. My Astropulse V5 times range from roughly 35800 - 50000, while my MB usually hover just above 2600. This is my fastest rig so this is the one I wanted to do the comparison on. Credits for the two are close to 1262 for AP and 42 for MB. I'll do the math, so you don't have to get out the calculator. For each core, on APv5 I'm receiving between 1.5-2.1 credits, per minute of work. When running MB's I'm receiving between .93-.97.
Both are optimized for SSE3, as that is the highest my AMD will allow. You Intel guys probably get better MB times than I do, with the newer optimizations... so it might make it a little closer. As it stands I'm going to keep running AP :)
On a potential credit per day basis (obviously results will vary, so this is just speculation)
MB's - 42 Credits / 43.3 Minutes each = .969 X 1440 Minutes X 3 Cores = 4186.08 potential daily output
AP's (slowest) - 1262 Credits / 844.45 Minutes = 1.494 X 1440 Minutes X 3 Cores = 6454.08 potential daily output
AP's (fastest) - 1262 Credits / 597.55 Minutes = 2.11 X 1440 Minutes X 3 Cores = 9115.2 potential daily output
QuietIce
04-06-09, 11:04 PM
Guess I'll have to switch. Thanks for sharing ...! :):thup:
I just ran a comparison on my much slower work computer as well. The results are the same.
Potential daily output for Multibeam is 768.96 credits
Potential daily output for Astropulse is 1497.6 credits
So it appears to be averaging close to 2X the credit for Astropulse. I'm not sure who all runs AP, but what would it do for our ranking if our top 10 started pounding out Ap for double the credit. I know some of you guys do already, but I'm just being speculative:)
EDIT:
Ok I just ran a comparison on Razorface's I7 machine. He's running with the HT on so it's running as 8 threads. He's also got a 9800gt running as well.
His average AP credit per minute, per thread is 1.048 credits. Equaling a potential daily output for 8 threads of 12072.96 credits!!
His average MB credit per minute, per thread is .612 credits. Equaling a potential daily output for 8 threads of 7050.24 credits.
He has started running both AP and MB, that's the only reason I could see some of his potential results... and of course, your results may vary :)
Codeman05
04-07-09, 11:10 AM
Wow, thanks for the testing guys. I had no idea that AP was turning out that kind of results.
I just turned AP on my i7 that was doing CUDA only, so we'll see how that does :)
Dave_01
04-18-09, 11:16 AM
I say folding
Codeman05
04-18-09, 04:14 PM
Doesn't help enough when you run through a 10 day cache in 3-4 because of optimized clients. :bang head
Just out of curiosity...have you adjusted your app_info file?
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=52589
By putting the correct flop values in, you should be able to get a more accurate cache. Mine seems fairly close so far, I guess I'll have a better idea with the next database crash...
Voodoo Rufus
04-18-09, 08:01 PM
Berkeley is down for maintenance again.
Could I overestimate the FLOP values to get an enormous cache?
Codeman05
04-19-09, 12:56 AM
maybe, it's not the only factor, DCF is also involved. Could be worth experimenting with though I suppose.
Wow, thanks for the testing guys. I had no idea that AP was turning out that kind of results.
I just turned AP on my i7 that was doing CUDA only, so we'll see how that does :)
Have you seen any results from doing this yet? More credit... less credit...?
Codeman05
04-20-09, 04:43 PM
More credit, but not full potential yet. For every 1 I complete, about 3 go into pending status.
So I'm hoping in a couple of weeks I'll see another nice boost :)
More credit, but not full potential yet. For every 1 I complete, about 3 go into pending status.
So I'm hoping in a couple of weeks I'll see another nice boost :)
I know exactly what you mean. All though having 50,000 credits pending is exciting, because you know they'll be validating sometime (for me anyway 50,000 credits is almost half my Total... haha). The more people that switch to AP the faster they should turn around. Looking at what btoups is putting together, I think he'll be validating quite a few AP's :) I'm glad he's on our team!
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