View Full Version : i somehow found this - ATi 4890
Rich'[ard]
03-22-09, 07:24 AM
FIRST LINK: (another link below with pics of 4890)
ATi 4890 vs GTX 275 - coming on April 9th.
http://vr-zone.com/articles/radeon-hd-4890-vs-geforce-gtx-275-on-apr-9th/6779.html?doc=6779
for those too lazy to read, this is the article:
Radeon HD 4890 (55nm RV790)
* HD 4890 is slated for launch on April 9th instead of 6th
* Cards have been shipped out to distributors and reviewers already
* 800 stream processors
* 1GB GDDR5 memory on 256-bit memory interface
* Clocks : 850MHz core and 975MHz memory
* Internal benchmarks claim 6% faster than RV770
* Expect to retail at USD$249
GeForce GTX 275 (55nm GT200)
* Expect to launch on April 9th as well
* No card samples yet even for AIC partners
* 240 shader processors
* 896MB GDDR3 memory on 448-bit memory interface
* Clocks : 633MHz core, 1404MHz shader and 1161MHz memory (Not final yet)
* Simulated benchmarks by partners reveals that it is slightly faster than GTX 260
* Expect to retail between US$229-$279
SECOND LINK - "RV790 exposed"
http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-radeon-4890-rv790-exposed/6758.html?doc=6758
i haven't read it yet...so i'm about to. hope you guys enjoy
BTW - i don't know if this is real...i hope so though:bang head
EDIT: 4890 will come with stock core speed of 850mhz. extreme edition will come as 950mhz.
Is it just me, or do i smell the core speed breaking 1ghz with this new card :p
Yeah I won't be surprised if a 4890 exceeds 1ghz. But i think it is really just the RV770 core with a higher stock voltage allowing that high stock clock, if that's the case then there won't be much headroom for OCing. I hope i'm wrong though coz i want to see a card OCed to 1ghz+ w/o vmods :) Still, quite disappointed because it looks like they won't increase the number of SPs. All it is basically is an overclocked 4870...
The GTX275 looks more promising with 240 cores. The performance might scale better than the 4890 when overclocked, and seeing the stock clock (though not final), looks like there is some good headroom for overclocking.
I guess we'll find out which one will perform better in a few weeks time. But my bets on the gtx275 this time :)
Badbonji
03-22-09, 12:12 PM
Thati s exactly that for the HD4890 I am thinking, whereas the GTX275 is one half of a GTX295 :P
At least nvidia figured out that $600 isnt a legitimate price point on a video card, of any magnitude.
Archer0915
03-22-09, 09:26 PM
looks good here too:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,679522/Test-Ati-Radeon-HD-4890-Erste-Benchmarks-mit-Crysis-und-Far-Cry-2-OC-Heaven/Grafikkarte/News/
Rich'[ard]
03-23-09, 01:12 AM
oh good..i thought it was a faker for a moment.
i hope ATi can keep up the great cards...and i hope even more that they can be quicker to fix thiings on drivers...and better drivers in general :)
ATi FTW!
I have had no issues with drivers other than minor bugs that don't affect anything other than taste. Such as tiny white alias lines next to the water in World At War, which only took them 2 driver sets to fix. They care, a lot more than Nvidia does, about drivers. ;)
Last time I used Nvidia (the 8x series), they couldn't even fix the Vista - stopped responding and has recovered error that caused BSODs.
necrokiller
03-23-09, 03:37 AM
I have had no issues with drivers other than minor bugs that don't affect anything other than taste. Such as tiny white alias lines next to the water in World At War, which only took them 2 driver sets to fix. They care, a lot more than Nvidia does, about drivers. ;)
Hahahaha such brand loyalty... that made me laugh!!! Nobody cares buddy... thats just a formality they must go through.
Last time I used Nvidia (the 8x series), they couldn't even fix the Vista - stopped responding and has recovered error that caused BSODs.
Never ever got that error for 2 years that I had Vista with my 8800GT.
Badbonji
03-23-09, 03:39 AM
looks good here too:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,679522/Test-Ati-Radeon-HD-4890-Erste-Benchmarks-mit-Crysis-und-Far-Cry-2-OC-Heaven/Grafikkarte/News/
Looks like a driver issue on the crysis test, it gets 31.6 FPS roughly at any setting : \
Would be good to see a clock for clock difference, as people can just overclock the HD4870 whereas I am thinking the HD4890 won't have that much headroom from what I know about it.
necrokiller
03-23-09, 03:41 AM
Looks like a driver issue on the crysis test, it gets 31.6 FPS roughly at any setting :
what else is new :)
JK
Clock-for-clock comparison of a 4870 and 4890. Hopefully someone can do that when it comes out. :D
Rich'[ard]
03-23-09, 06:11 AM
yeah. that would then tell if it's just an overclocked 4870 or not.
if it uses 9.3 drivers, does that mean us 4850/4870/4870X2 owners can use them as well?
and it seems to have the same temps as a 4870.
i dont think it'll use a different driver than the one we 48xx series users use.
Dapman02
03-23-09, 03:50 PM
Finally, something
Hahahaha such brand loyalty... that made me laugh!!! Nobody cares buddy... thats just a formality they must go through.
Never ever got that error for 2 years that I had Vista with my 8800GT.
You are just as bad in the other direction, only you love Nvidia. Have you gone as far as I have and actually used every series personally from both brands? I have and continually go back to ATI.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=driver+stopped+responding+nvlddmkm
Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean the large majority are as lucky. Look at the first post on the official nvidia forums, over 113 pages.
ATI may necessarily have more bugs, but they tend to be minor. Nvidia has the joy of entire system crashes.
I wonder what will happen if all of a sudden intel releases a GPU 1.5x more powerful than the ati/nvidia offering and sell it 1.5x cheaper. And with near-perfect drivers. It surely will shake things up a bit :D I highly doubt it'll happen though. Or least not sometime soon. :P
Rich'[ard]
03-23-09, 11:58 PM
You are just as bad in the other direction, only you love Nvidia. Have you gone as far as I have and actually used every series personally from both brands? I have and continually go back to ATI.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=driver+stopped+responding+nvlddmkm
Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean the large majority are as lucky. Look at the first post on the official nvidia forums, over 113 pages.
ATI may necessarily have more bugs, but they tend to be minor. Nvidia has the joy of entire system crashes.
damn straight :beer:
gian84, that would be pretty hilarious :p they'd prob then make their motherboards Intel GPU only. or something like that....something random.
Yeah, to counter the AMD/ATi. Because I don't think intel and nvidia will have a partnership any time soon :D I've read somewhere that intel is indeed developing or at least planning to develop their own gpu. And nvidia, with CUDA, can also make their cpu one day... Hmm things are going to look very interesting when DX11 comes i think... So there might be an intel, ati, and nvidia gpu fanclub, with their cpu counterpart.lol three's a crowd? no way. the more the merrier. Heck, SiS and S3 can even join the threesome for some gang-bangin.lol The forums are gonna be more lively then :)
Evilsizer
03-24-09, 12:21 PM
here are some other links..
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,8986.html
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,8960.html
not only that but it looks like RV790/RV740 to be released around the same time as RV870
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,8980.html
Rich'[ard]
03-25-09, 12:07 AM
4890 breaking 1000mhz core!!
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,8986.html
*drools*
Badbonji
03-25-09, 07:56 AM
;6037624"]4890 breaking 1000mhz core!!
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,8986.html
*drools*
What cooling? This happened with the HD2900XT as well, breaking the 1000Mhz core but then real life results weren't as lucky :P
Better to wait on real reviews.
mastrdrver
03-25-09, 12:44 PM
Was said to be on air.
edit:The first of these changes is that the chip has been given a tune-up to tighten the clock loops and enhance the power distribution. The second change is that the chip can now operate on two distinct power planes; one for the 3D core and one for the memory controller. This provides for greater control of the voltages and allows the chip to run closer to its optimal range. The dual power plane design also means that there is a higher potential top-end frequency and lower idle power consumption, since there is more voltage control over the different parts of the ASIC.
As a result, overclocking potential is off the charts. Reports have been flooding the net about this chip running at and in excess of 1GHz; a feat never before achieved with reference cooling solutions. Couple this with the fact that the memory can also be overclocked near 1.2GHz, and you have a very enthusiast-oriented card that should outperform even the most expensive competing products - and that’s not even the best part. According to our sources, you don’t need to go out and buy a factory-overclocked card to be able to reach 1GHz; mostly all cards based on the reference ATI design should be able to hit this milestone. Sweet.
Looks like the CCC oc in those pics go to 1200 on both the memory and gpu. That would be so sweet, 1.2 ghz gpu and 4.8ghz effective on memory.:drool:
I just may ditch my x2 for 2 or 3 of these for my i7 build. Glad I got the p6t6.
Rich'[ard]
03-26-09, 01:42 AM
if they really are just overclocked 4870s, they wouldn't be able to reach 1ghz+ speeds right?
hopefully it's actually a different/modded version of the RV770 chip, or w/e the name of the chip in the 4800 is :)
Anyone remember the story of the Radeon 9800XT? Seems like a similar thing. Just the same core tweaked a wee bit for better clocks.
Not bagging on anyone, I just never get why everywhere else on the 'net nobody remembers that yes, ATi has done very subtle changes before. It doesn't always have to be a 1900XT to 1950XT or even the various Radeon 800/850 gpu flavors.
Not a die shrink, not a fundamentally new chip in any way, just one tweaked a little bit to help some clock yields.
Of course, the other long-shot possiblity is that the "tweak" has a bit more to it than anyone has let on yet. I mean basically the old Athlon TbredA and TbredB were the "same" chip too right? :p
Ey richard, got AU$489 to burn? :)
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=416&products_id=11039
rainless
03-26-09, 07:41 AM
I wonder what will happen if all of a sudden intel releases a GPU 1.5x more powerful than the ati/nvidia offering and sell it 1.5x cheaper. And with near-perfect drivers. It surely will shake things up a bit :D I highly doubt it'll happen though. Or least not sometime soon. :P
Yeah that'll NEVER happen. Intel only knows how to make "functional" graphics cards.. and BARELY FUNCTIONAL at that!
Yeah I won't be surprised if a 4890 exceeds 1ghz. But i think it is really just the RV770 core with a higher stock voltage allowing that high stock clock, if that's the case then there won't be much headroom for OCing. I hope i'm wrong though coz i want to see a card OCed to 1ghz+ w/o vmods :) Still, quite disappointed because it looks like they won't increase the number of SPs. All it is basically is an overclocked 4870...
The GTX275 looks more promising with 240 cores. The performance might scale better than the 4890 when overclocked, and seeing the stock clock (though not final), looks like there is some good headroom for overclocking.
I guess we'll find out which one will perform better in a few weeks time. But my bets on the gtx275 this time :)
Well OF COURSE it's just a rebranded 4870... that's why they aren't calling it the 5000 :)
They can't actually get any MONEY for a 4870 now (just like NVIDIA can't get any money for a 260... nobody's buying anything) so they just release the same product again with a higher clock and a different name.
They've been doing it for years now. The 9800GTX is basically just an overclocked 8800GTS.
I'm waiting for NEW NUMBERS.
A 300 series from NVIDIA and a 5000 series from ATI. I don't even want to hear any of this other garbage. I've already conceded that I missed this round of graphics cards.
ChinStrap
03-26-09, 07:57 AM
;6037624"]4890 breaking 1000mhz core!!
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,8986.html
*drools*
hmmm.
I like this. 1GHz core.
wonder how it will handle COD4 @ 1920x1200...
Yeah that'll NEVER happen. Intel only knows how to make "functional" graphics cards.. and BARELY FUNCTIONAL at that!
Hmm well i wouldn't say anything as absolute as that. I mean anything is possible. I'd give intel a chance. Things can change :)
Intel Larrabee GPU (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-larrabee-graphics,2253.html)
Rich'[ard]
03-27-09, 01:14 AM
Ey richard, got AU$489 to burn? :)
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=416&products_id=11039
hey mate, you from Australia? :p
saw it pop up on PCCG last night. sadly, i do not have $489 to burn. that site doesn't even say anything about clocks etc :shrug:
i'm thinking of picking up another 4850 though. are they going to release an updated 4850? if the 4870 updated to a 4890, doesn't that mean the 4850 should update to a 4870? :santa: hehe.
it will be almost as confusing as nVidia's 8 series cards :p jks.
Yeah. I'm not there at the moment though i'll be back there next year hopefully. I miss State of Origin already.lol
necrokiller
03-27-09, 03:02 AM
You are just as bad in the other direction, only you love Nvidia. Have you gone as far as I have and actually used every series personally from both brands? I have and continually go back to ATI.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=driver+stopped+responding+nvlddmkm
Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean the large majority are as lucky. Look at the first post on the official nvidia forums, over 113 pages.
ATI may necessarily have more bugs, but they tend to be minor. Nvidia has the joy of entire system crashes.
No I do not have the free time and money to waste on every series of cards from both brands, but I have owned several from Nvidia and ATI... and just like you have had better experience with ATI, I have had better experience with Nvidia. Your wording was wrong and suggested fanboism, and you completely missed the sarcasm in mine... for all you know I have changed my mind to getting a 4870 1GB card.
And I don't 'love' any brand. I just haven't had my system crash on me so many others have.
Rich'[ard]
03-27-09, 03:08 AM
No I do not have the free time and money to waste on every series of cards from both brands, but I have owned several from Nvidia and ATI... and just like you have had better experience with ATI, I have had better experience with Nvidia. Your wording was wrong and suggested fanboism, and you completely missed the sarcasm in mine... for all you know I have changed my mind to getting a 4870 1GB card.
And I don't 'love' any brand. I just haven't had my system crash on me so many others have.
that's the way! :p
ATi till the day i die! (like my poetry skills?)
nah, i'm not ATi fanboy. i might get nVidia card down the line if ATi turns bad.
if you get an Asus 1gb card, there's a few bugs i encounted when i recently built my friends' i7 4870 system.
he installed the Asus Smart Doctor ocing program and WoW kept lagging. he has since unintsalled it, and everything works fine :)
necrokiller
03-27-09, 03:14 AM
Im not looking for a specific brand... sales are fluctuating for both brands at the moment. And Sapphire 4870 1GB is cheaper right now. I'll wait for 4890 launch and grab 4870 when the prices fall further. :)
Rich'[ard]
03-27-09, 03:18 AM
Im not looking for a specific brand... sales are fluctuating for both brands at the moment. And Sapphire 4870 1GB is cheaper right now. I'll wait for 4890 launch and grab 4870 when the prices fall further. :)
yeah, sorry. shuodln't have assumed your prices would be the same. here in Australi though, you can get the 1GB 4870 with Asus' own cooler for $5 more than the stock 512MB 4870, and also a lot chaeper than other companies.
necrokiller
03-27-09, 03:27 AM
Asus is rather expensive here... but I particularly like their custom coolers on ATi cards... I know I loved my x1950 Pro
Now this is a nice card... but 512MB..and at the same price I can get 1GB sapphire 4870
Rich'[ard]
03-27-09, 04:39 AM
whooao!!!! that card is SEXY. i'd buy that over an nVidia just cos of the cooler.
k maybe not..but yeh.
i've seen a different one. it's the non-R.O.G edition.
Farinorco
03-27-09, 05:17 AM
The R700 ISA (Instruction Set Architecture) document mentions in at least one point functional differences between RV770 and RV790, so I wouldn't say both are the same chip...
If you want to see what I'm talking about, download this (http://developer.amd.com/gpu_assets/R700-Family_Instruction_Set_Architecture.pdf), go to section 7.3 and look for
Burst memory reads are not supported by the RV770; however, the 710, 730, 740 and 790 do support it.
Just don't collapse when you see the 392 pages technical document :lol:
Anyway, I don't think that changes things so much. In the end, what we get is a little update of the RV770 chip with some tweaks and fixes here and there, including (but not limited to) the ability to clock much higher than the previous version so it can be made more powerful. That's what I expect from a RV770->RV790 or HD4870->HD4890 transition given the names, and that's what I expect because of everything I've already seen around this topic. Given the chip/card names, I think that what we should expect is a slightly improved RV770, and I think that's exactly what they're gonna release...
PS: A RV770 that can be clocked at ~1000MHz at stock cooling, probably well over that with better cooling, isn't so bad anyway, is it?
Rich'[ard]
03-27-09, 08:31 AM
The R700 ISA (Instruction Set Architecture) document mentions in at least one point functional differences between RV770 and RV790, so I wouldn't say both are the same chip...
If you want to see what I'm talking about, download this (http://developer.amd.com/gpu_assets/R700-Family_Instruction_Set_Architecture.pdf), go to section 7.3 and look for
Just don't collapse when you see the 392 pages technical document :lol:
Anyway, I don't think that changes things so much. In the end, what we get is a little update of the RV770 chip with some tweaks and fixes here and there, including (but not limited to) the ability to clock much higher than the previous version so it can be made more powerful. That's what I expect from a RV770->RV790 or HD4870->HD4890 transition given the names, and that's what I expect because of everything I've already seen around this topic. Given the chip/card names, I think that what we should expect is a slightly improved RV770, and I think that's exactly what they're gonna release...
PS: A RV770 that can be clocked at ~1000MHz at stock cooling, probably well over that with better cooling, isn't so bad anyway, is it?
certainly not!
i can now brag to my friends who own nVidia cards why i go with ATi. 1000mhz core ftw!
is this the first gpu to break 1ghz core speed? because i think there was a previous post about the 8600GT reaching near 1ghz core speed.
I know some pplz have the 8600gt/s reach 1ghz before (google will reveal the forums). As for a 4830, i know pplz get to 950mhz stable. The 4870 i have yet to see someone to do 1ghz stable...
I know some pplz have the 8600gt/s reach 1ghz before (google will reveal the forums). As for a 4830, i know pplz get to 950mhz stable. The 4870 i have yet to see someone to do 1ghz stable...
And yet, the 4870 is faster in all of those cases. :screwy:
necrokiller
03-27-09, 04:15 PM
Yeah its not always all about the numbers
I agree its not always about the mhz. Thats why i was a little disappointed with the 4890 not having an SP increase which would have made it scale better than the 4870 when overclocked. The GTX275 will have more SP than a GTX260 c216 and it's set to compete with the 4890 (4870 OC basically)...
Rich'[ard]
03-27-09, 11:36 PM
are they just releasing an updated 4870? or are they going to update the 4850 as well, because i need something to push down prices so i can get another 4850 :)
hmm...i'm thinking, when will it be that GPUs will be made in dual cores and quad cores, just like the cpu evolution. i know there's driver problems...heat problems...but it might happen :)
currently it's just high end models using dual GPU config, but what if ATi takes it even further and make even more Dual GPU models.
;6041723"]are they just releasing an updated 4870? or are they going to update the 4850 as well, because i need something to push down prices so i can get another 4850 :)
hmm...i'm thinking, when will it be that GPUs will be made in dual cores and quad cores, just like the cpu evolution. i know there's driver problems...heat problems...but it might happen :)
currently it's just high end models using dual GPU config, but what if ATi takes it even further and make even more Dual GPU models.
4850, 4870, 4890 are all the same core. So an update to 1 is an update to all.
Same technology, different speeds.
Farinorco
03-28-09, 07:35 AM
4850, 4870, 4890 are all the same core. So an update to 1 is an update to all.
Same technology, different speeds.
No, they aren't. HD4850 and HD4870 are RV770 core. HD4890 is the first card with RV790. As I've previously shown, there are functional differences between the cores, and even they are different sizes, RV790 is slightly bigger than RV770 (~280mm2 vs ~255mm2).
What Rich'[ard] is asking is completely reasonable. We had 2 models with RV770 (HD4850/70). Obviously HD4890 takes the HD4870 position... what happens with HD4850?
I bet AMD/ATi want to target that market segment with HD4750/4770. The 40nm RV740 is really close to the old RV770 (only 8 cluster vs the 10 in RV770, but the ability to clock higher and consume less power/generate less heat), and even with a 128bit bus, the GDDR5 gives a memory bandwith comparable to a GDDR3 256bit bus. HD4770 should give near (or higher who knows) HD4850 performance, with a lower production cost and a reduced power consumption.
I'd say that until DX11 generation, the main ATi options are going to be those RV740 and RV790 videocards. And if you ask me, I can't see the ageing (though superb in its moment) NVIDIA's G92 chip fighting face to face with the RV740 as it's supposed to do, and even G200 is in trouble versus the new RV790... hard times to the green team, it seems...
petteyg359
03-28-09, 08:13 AM
Yeah, to counter the AMD/ATi. Because I don't think intel and nvidia will have a partnership any time soon :D I've read somewhere that intel is indeed developing or at least planning to develop their own gpu. And nvidia, with CUDA, can also make their cpu one day... Hmm things are going to look very interesting when DX11 comes i think... So there might be an intel, ati, and nvidia gpu fanclub, with their cpu counterpart.lol three's a crowd? no way. the more the merrier. Heck, SiS and S3 can even join the threesome for some gang-bangin.lol The forums are gonna be more lively then :)
Not unless nVidia can convince Microsoft to start selling multi-arch Windows again. You seem to be forgetting that producing x86 chips requires a license...
Kuroimaho
03-28-09, 08:14 AM
How hard those times will be really depend on the prices, and as with the 4870 price cut if the cards won't hit the shelves with the low prices AMD wants because the companies rather keep ATi prices up than see NV cut prices who knows.
ATI Graphics Partners Think Radeon 4870 is Too Good
Declining to follow the price cut plan
(http://www.dailytech.com/ATI+Graphics+Partners+Think+Radeon+4870+is+Too+Goo d/article14527.htm)
Farinorco
03-28-09, 12:24 PM
That's true to an extent. Of course final prices will make the products appear as more or less appealing to the final consumer, but it doesn't hide the fact that NVIDIA is competing performance and feature wise against lower cost parts from the competition, nor using 3 generations old chips to fill every market segment under the high end.
As an example, the final pricings of G200 products and RV770 products has made both sides more or less equally atractive to consumers, because you have similarly featured cards for a similar price tag. That's all a consumer needs to know to decide what videocard should buy.
But that doesn't mean all this wasn't a hard hit in the **** to NVIDIA. AMD graphics division (ATi) has had ~8% losses, while NVIDIA graphics division has had ~48% losses (or something similar, I read it but I don't remember where...).
I don't think that we're seeing a much better features : price product from ATi than from NVIDIA any time soon. Even if it implies price drops or whatever, NVIDIA is going to compete with a product of similar value in every market segment. Even if it implies to sacrifice revenues, they have to keep their marketshare.
The fact is that I don't see the arrival of the new ATi chips improving things for the green guys... I honestly hope that G300 and R800 architectures bring some balance to the battle, but until then, I suppose it's a hard time for NVIDIA...
******
EDIT: I think I didn't understand well what you're saying with my first read. Now I think that you mean that the negative to drop prices from ATi partners can save another price dropping from NVIDIA, specially if they price the HD4890 accordingly instead of against GTX260 (which seems to be the AMD intention), giving them a not so hard and stressing time. I fully agree with that.
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