Your thoughts

[Afrikaaner]

ok so here is my planned water cooling solution for my phenom 9950be on an asus crosshair ii formula board in an atcs 840 case:

pump:
laing d5 (or danger den d5 whatever brand that is)

reservoir:
ek dual spin reservoir

radiator:
fesar x-changer triple 120mm

cpu block:
koolance 350

mobo nb, sb, mosfet
koolance 122, koolance 125, koolance mvr 40

some tubing, and compression fittings. im planning to add my vid cards once i upgrade them (waiting for dx11)

so i was planning on doing loop as follows:
reservoir->pump->radiator->splitter from 1/2 id to 3 1/4 id paths to cpu, mobo (and maybe ram later), and graphics card->reservoir again.

flame away...

[Spawn-Inc]

nice setup for the most part, i tend to dislike koolance but there newer stuff (what you selected) is alot better then there older stuff.

my 3 comments are as follows.

1. never split your loop up, only do series. the water will take the path with the least resistance and flow mainly to that. the water in any loop is only 1-2C at any point in the loop

2. unless your pushing some series overclocks a well placed fan will cool your mosfets, and south bridge. you can get a low profile s/b heatsink. and heatsinks for your mosfets.

3. a triple rad won't handle the cpu/mobo AND video cards. i think it will be fine with the cpu and mobo. i would do a second loop for gpu's.

[Afrikaaner]

hmm so what if i got 3 separate lesser pumps, one for each parallel loop? i have never done water cooling, but i feel that series is a waste of money almost because you're feeding hot water to some component at some point.

what do you think of switching the radiator and reservoir and adding a peltier to the reservoir? (so rad to pump to reservoir/peltier then to components or maybe rad to res/pelt to multiple pumps to components)

also, i was wondering if any of you have tried putting say red uv tubes with blue uv coolant. i wondered if this would yield sh*t-stain brown or some cool effects?

sorry about all the random thoughts, an answer to anything is welcome.

[Evilsizer]

no dont even do that, the only part of a wcing loop i would ever parallel are rads. if your willing to buy more pumps, then just make seperate loops. your computer will thank you for it with much better then temps, then if you do as planned.

[Afrikaaner]

hmmm if i do separate loops i need separate rads, right? but would be able to get away with one res?

[Spawn-Inc]

no if you go seperate loops, you need 2x everything.


if you look at peoples loops you will see that all there temps are about them same temp. the water through out the loop is the same. the reason being that the water will reach equilibrium and thus not change. i was at your thinking when i first started and realized series is best and proper.

[Conumdrum]

hmmm if i do separate loops i need separate rads, right? but would be able to get away with one res?

Hiyas. I have to ask. How long have you been reading forums on watercooling and just getting the basic knowledge of what is required?

It's not hard to get a basic grasp, but it seems you just grasping at thoughts and really don't understand the basics yet. We can help. But if you can hold off and spend a few solid hours reading these links, maybe even taking notes etc you'll get a good idea of what you need.

No being a hardbutt, but I really think with a bit more effort you'll get a good idea.

Sloww down, read, and have fun.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php? Not a noob site, but great stickies Is down, be back up soon

http://www.ocforums.com/ My fav, good peeps, know their stuff, less hardcore
http://www.skinneelabs.com/MartinsLiquidLab/ testing data, a must have, learn about heat loads, flow rates. Lots to learn, you will keep this link forever for sure.
http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/inde [...] opic=20277 A GREAT Europe site
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/
http://translate.google.com/transl [...] n&ie=UTF-8 Info on rad testing
http://skinneelabs.com/
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=282232

Stores
http://www.dangerden.com/index.php [...] e&Itemid=1
http://www.petrastechshop.com/
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/
http://www.jab-tech.com/

[Conumdrum]

Why don't you start with what parts you want to cool? make a sig with your planned parts. I can't tell if you want to cool a Celeron or a HOT i7 965 max overclocks. Or plan to add 3 4870 x2 GPUS to the setup later. Your case and cooling setup matters. Posting a 640x480 pic of your current case side helps.

If cooling just a CPU and Mobo parts for now, I'd look at NOT cooling the Mosfets (blocks are way expensive for the benefits) or the SB. If your NB temps are holding back your overclocks and your NB/SB/Mosfets are all connected (we don't even know your Mobo yet) by heatpipes, then yea, you got a major expense and fancy loop setup.

It can get very complicated and a new WCer should just do the CPU first unless they are really well informed and been building PC's for a few years.

[Conumdrum]

what do you think of switching the radiator and reservoir and adding a peltier to the reservoir? (so rad to pump to reservoir/peltier then to components or maybe rad to res/pelt to multiple pumps to components)

also, i was wondering if any of you have tried putting say red uv tubes with blue uv coolant. i wondered if this would yield sh*t-stain brown or some cool effects?

sorry about all the random thoughts, an answer to anything is welcome.


Read on TEC's. Putting one on a res is like....ack, what? Yes random thoughts.

And yep, that color choice, you'll get ugly, or an odd purple. Spend 3-4 hours looking at diff rig pics with watercooling over the next 30 days you'll see what works and what doesn't.

[Evilsizer]

Does it really take three posts (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=322046) to get everything covered?

[Conumdrum]

Does it really take three posts (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=322046) to get everything covered?


Agreed. Forgot, forgot, and finally got it done. I didn't get into the discussion till a few posts and there was a few subjects (think seperate thoughts/paragraphs). Once I started to read, I saw gaps etc on info etc.

Yea, your right, I got on a roll, I'm sure I overdid it. Blame the Jack n Ice?

A three post falme like the OP wanted. Wasn't a bad first post, just more info please?

'Finds a hole, perfectly embaresed, been exposed'.

Thanks, another learning experiance from a experianced poster.

[Springbok]

Howzit Afrikaaner, I've tried the 1/2" -> 1/4" method with Koolance parts and it's really not a good idea. You end up spending more on extra fittings, and will get less cooling out of your system. RAM isn't worth the extra effort, it just needs a little airflow around the CPU, most people here use a silent fan of some sort.

The first three on your list of parts look good but stick with 1/2" fitting copper waterblocks for CPU, GPU and mobo. Pretty sure a triple rad will be fine but I can't speak from experience with the level of hardware you're shooting for.

[Afrikaaner]

well before i go post anything else, i will go read some stuff, but i do want to point out my first post mentions what i want to cool, and that i do intend on getting some high end vid card(s) once dx 11 comes out. so im 1 for 3 lol. *goes to read*

edit:

and isnt the phenom 9950 the most power hungry and thus most stupidly hot core currently out? (tdp 140w)

[Afrikaaner]

ok so i've been reading and reading at work instead of doing work (so like for 7 hours) and i still dont understand why i cant use one reservoir.

what if i did something like res->2 separate pumps-> separate radiators (2 feser xchanger 120x3's perhaps?) ->{(loop one)cpu-> mobo} {(loop two) graphics cards} -> both return to reservoir on individual lines

they should both run as separate loops.


and also, i cant find any pics of people trying to use different color tubing and coolant, which kind of leads me to believe it's an awful idea. so what color do you think i should go with? (most of my lights turned out to be blue, but i dont care too much. i was thinking of putting uv led's in the acrylic of the ek res so the front of my case glows and is awesome. maybe?

[Afrikaaner]

*sigh...*this looked so much better in notepad.


┌─────────┐
│RESERVOIR ╞════════════════════════════╗
│ ╞══════════════════╗ ║
└─╥─╥─────┘ ║ ║
║ ║ ║ ║
║ ║ ▼ PUMPS ▼
║ ║ ║ ║
║ ║ ▓▓▓ ▓▓▓
║ ║ ▓▓▓ RADS ▓▓▓
║ ║ CHIPSET CPU ▓▓▓ ▓▓▓
║ ║ V V ║ ║
║ ╚════════════■════■══════╝ ║
╚════════════■══■════════════════════╝
^ ^
GRAPHICS CARDS



edit: spaces dont work i guess.. all that work for nothing. le sigh. just take my word for it that it was awesome. and perfect.

[Evilsizer]

just use a T-line....i havent seen a res that has 2 in/out nozzles. that is what your after, so that one res can feed the two loops. that would work but for the sake of being easier to manage having 2 t-lines, one per loop or one t-line to feed two loops would be easier and look cleaner IMO.

[Afrikaaner]

Actually the ek spinner whatever res I was looking at has 4 i/o holes. Why not make use of them?


Also, is it better to go mobo->cpu or cpu->mobo? That is one thing I couldn't find, and what little I did find, everyone disagreed. So what are your takes on that?

[Spawn-Inc]

the only part of loop order that matters is res/tline before the pump so it always has water.

the key is to make your loop (amount of tubing) as small as possible, though its not a huge issue with todays pumps.

if you can get the rad before the water blocks. i would go cpu first, but it doesn't matter that much.

[Afrikaaner]

ok cool. i think what i'm going to do is go single loop for now, and plug the extra holes in the res. ill get all my equipment and run a res->pump->rad->cpu->mobo->res all with half inch tubing and compression fittings because i dont like barbs and cinches and all that nonsense.

and another thing. my throwing those ideas around were just things i had floating in my head for a long time. i've been going to school and work both full time so i dont have nearly enough time to sit down and do research on each BRILLIANT (subjective) idea i have.

so moving on with my plans, i know the koolance 350 has an intentionally bowed surface. both in air and water cooling, i was under the impression that this was a bad idea. would i want to lap that? or my processor? i was just reading a thread on here about some dude that dropped his temps by like 5c after lapping. and on top of that everything looks all nice and shiny *shWING* (im not too worried about the warranty that probably already expired on my proc)

[billb]

,,, all with half inch tubing and compression fittings...

was just reading a thread on here about some dude that dropped his temps by like 5c after lapping.

Most compression fittings have these cute, tiny holes where the water goes through. Why use 1/2" tubing and then put a 1/4" restriction in/out of every component. Doesn't make sense.

Worm clamps on barbs work excellent, always have.

Yes, lapping can get you anywhere from no benefit to 10°c. Depends on how bad the parts are and how good of a lap job you do. But, pretty much, any lap will improve temps some.

[Spawn-Inc]

lapping can help but if i would only lap the cpu. i would/have and do lap air heatsinks but not water blocks.

[Afrikaaner]

ooohhh i just looked up worm clamps. BRILLIANT!! i should have thought of that. basically run off to home depot/lowes for that. awesome. maybe i'll go with that. should look pretty sweet too. that's awesome. i saw someone mention worm clamps and i just thought it was something dumb, not sure what. but yeah, that's a great idea. i think i'll go with that. thanks so much! (just got home now and its time to keep reading 'bout water cooling.

[Afrikaaner]

if you check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCjOyyI5G84

the dude mentions it's curved for better contact with the cpu. this confuses me, can anyone explain to me? (around 1:40)

[Spawn-Inc]

it's like a pressure point and presses down on the cpu at the core, but some quad cores, now older ones (q6600, etc) have 2 dies, not 1. so you wouldn't get the best performance from it. for yours it should be better as its 1 die on the chip. hence i would leave it as is.

[Afrikaaner]

thank you much. is there a way to add props or something on this forum or is that for sissies?

[Spawn-Inc]

not that i'm aware of, to my knowledge the only thing you can really do is just say it in your posts.

also i meant to ask before but what was the reason behind wanting 1 res with 2 loops?

it can be done with a bigger res and custom made but, to my knowledge, there is no res that will accommodate 2 loops properly. you could do it with the ek spin res but it would be difficult.

[Conumdrum]

Can I get in on the one res two loops idea?
My first problem is flow rate. If each loop has at least the recommended 1 GPM flow then the single res inlet or two inlets will be at 2 GPM. Thats crazy flow in a res, it brings up all sorts of vortex issues, bubbles never getting a chance to rise to the top of the water and go away. Thats one reason we use reses, to get ALL the air outta a loop. One res just seems crazy to me for flow issues.

Next issue. A CPU loop needs LOW Delta T. Meaning a Low water temp vs the air temp going through the rad. CPU's are very temp critical. If the second loop has warmer water temps, well there ya go, your CPU temps just got hotter because your CPU water is hotter because you mixed the flows.

I can see it working and tested by a guy who has made 15+ WC rigs, has 10 blocks, rads, reses, hoses, and all sorts of goodies to play and test with on a SECONDARY rig. But a new guy to WC, nope, stay simple and successful.

[Conumdrum]

The deal on bowed WC blocks is because the way chips are physically made. The metal top (heat spreader) is kinda glued to the silicon chip in the inside. The silicon is actually much smaller than the full chip. It's bigger for one reason, the massive amount of connections needed to connect to the Mobo and helps spread the heat out for less efficient cooling systems like air.

A bowed HS puts extra pressure (better heat removal) right on top of the hot parts of the CPU. Less thermal paste, no chance for air bubbles etc. Thermal paste is not as efficient as pure perfect metal to metal contact, TIM fills the gaps at maybe 80% efficiency.

And most chips are built with a concave top, it's just the way it is. So a bowed WC block top helps with temps.

A lapped CPU top reduces the chance that a high corner on the chip will increase the space between the block and the chip metal. We are talking less than 1/1000 an inch gaps.

Some even have 'de-lidded' their CPU's, a risky proposition which means actually cutting the metal top off the CPU. It puts the CPU silicon directly against the block. Best heat removal possible with a really quality cooling setup. Broken CPU chips etc happen a LOT in these extreme cases. But best temps are the result.

I let the top 500 overclockers play with that, I'm not rich or that crazy. I lapped my CPU and check my WC blocks with a blade, Enuff for me.

[Blazing fire]

Thanks, another learning experiance from a experianced poster.

:rolleyes:

[Afrikaaner]

well i will keep in mind the vortex deal, but for now i am going to build a single loop which should support this just fine (theoretically). however i saw there are "anti cyclone" things which are basically acrylic chunks. do you think these could work in the future?

also, my plan was to mount some UV led's on the acrylic panel of the reservoir so the fluid would look awesome. any ideas on how i should go about that? i remember seeing someone drill holes to put the led's in, but i dont think that would be wise (a 3mm led in 5mm acrylic doesnt sound good to me) so i was thinking perhaps hot glue would work to transfer the light into the acrylic. further thoughts?

[Spawn-Inc]

well i will keep in mind the vortex deal, but for now i am going to build a single loop which should support this just fine (theoretically). however i saw there are "anti cyclone" things which are basically acrylic chunks. do you think these could work in the future?

also, my plan was to mount some UV led's on the acrylic panel of the reservoir so the fluid would look awesome. any ideas on how i should go about that? i remember seeing someone drill holes to put the led's in, but i dont think that would be wise (a 3mm led in 5mm acrylic doesnt sound good to me) so i was thinking perhaps hot glue would work to transfer the light into the acrylic. further thoughts?

the anti vortex insert your reffering to is for EK-RES150, 250, 400 series of res's. it won't work in the ek spin res. the only way i would do more then one loop on a single res is a custom built res with at least 1 litre of capacity.

here is what it does, click here for the picture. (http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-65556269779593_2049_39109146)

if you are getting the ek spin res, it has 3 5mm led holes built in. just get 5mm leds, otherwise hot gluing them should work. i would put a small amount on the rim of the plexi and not on the inside of the hole. that what it can be removed later on.