View Full Version : RROD, why is overheating the solution?
I've been building computers since I was 14, and my friends dad showed me and him how. It instantly became one of my favorite things to do, and I've gained a vast amount of knowledge about computers since then.
What I'm leading to, is in no way would I ever purposely overheat my computer. That would never, ever be a choice for me.
However, I just got the dreaded RROD last week. It ****ed me off, but I honestly knew it was bound to happen, I've had the system for 3 years and I think I was fortunate enough to have actually had it last this long. The warranty for RROD would have actually expired next month, so I got lucky.
But since then I've wanted to know more about the RROD. I've watched countless youtube videos and read methods for solving this problem. The most prominent of them being:
The towel method
The squeeze method.
The squeeze method seems to have a much lower success rate, and that makes sense to me. The towel method (Of which you take three towels, wrap your xbox in them, and turn it on and let it overheat for 20 minutes.) seems to have a really high success rate. Even had some of my friends do it and tell me it worked perfectly. But I don't understand how overheating your system would cure this problem? Maybe because I don't exactly know what causes the RROD, but I can honestly say I can't think of a single issue that would be solved by overheating your xbox to this degree.
I just watched a youtube video that actually made sense to me, being a computer builder and all. You take your xbox apart, scrape off the cooling pads for the GPU and CPU, and replace it with arctic silver. Add a couple washers and put it back together. It made sense to me, it seemed like a logical thing to do.
Yet again however, when he was putting it back together he posted a message in the video saying, "You may still get a temporary RROD, don't worry. To solve this just unplug the fans, and turn it on. Let it overheat for 5 minutes, plug the fans back in, let it cool for 10 minutes before turning it on again." Then he turns it on, a viola! It works.
It all made sense to me up until he also recommended overheating the system. I just can't fathom why this would help? I tried to google search it but I didn't get very helpful results... everything from, "I want the RROD." To, "Obama causes RROD." /sigh @ people.
So, I was wondering if anyone here knew anything about this mystery =/
I also read that Microsoft was actually upgrading some of the 360's that go in for repair for RROD, which is cool because I figure getting mine near release it's probably not got the most recent tech in it.
rainless
04-20-09, 05:04 AM
Well yours doesn't have the most recent tech.
To understand why overheating would help RROD you first have to understand the RROD.
The Xbox 360s were produced with around a 10% failure rate... pretty high for any electronic device. The reason the systems failed is because of inadequate cooling. (So the failure rate should actually be much higher since ALL of the 360s shared the same cooling at launch. The 10% just means ten percent of them failed immediately. The rest were probably destined to fail eventually.)
What eventually causes the error is the 360 overheating and cooling to the point that the board warps and cools in that warped position.
What further overheating the board does is raise the temp to the point that the motherboard actually settles back into a non-warped position, thus ending the RROD error.
This actually repairs nothing as, along with the RROD error, one of the things you'll experience are game freezes from the GPU overheating. So your GPU will still overheat... your board will still warp, and sooner or later your 360 will be dead beyond repair.
I experienced the RROD first hand and fortunately had an instant replacement warranty.
I replaced my system, which was much like yours, with a brand new one featuring HDMI and the newer cooling system.
...eventually I replaced all that with a PS3.
Well yours doesn't have the most recent tech.
To understand why overheating would help RROD you first have to understand the RROD.
The Xbox 360s were produced with around a 10% failure rate... pretty high for any electronic device. The reason the systems failed is because of inadequate cooling. (So the failure rate should actually be much higher since ALL of the 360s shared the same cooling at launch. The 10% just means ten percent of them failed immediately. The rest were probably destined to fail eventually.)
What eventually causes the error is the 360 overheating and cooling to the point that the board warps and cools in that warped position.
What further overheating the board does is raise the temp to the point that the motherboard actually settles back into a non-warped position, thus ending the RROD error.
This actually repairs nothing as, along with the RROD error, one of the things you'll experience are game freezes from the GPU overheating. So your GPU will still overheat... your board will still warp, and sooner or later your 360 will be dead beyond repair.
I experienced the RROD first hand and fortunately had an instant replacement warranty.
I replaced my system, which was much like yours, with a brand new one featuring HDMI and the newer cooling system.
...eventually I replaced all that with a PS3.
That makes a ton of sense. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain that to me. That's awesome.
I think I may be following in your footsteps, haha. I've been thinking about a PS3 for a bit now. xD
Rudstock
04-20-09, 07:27 AM
Ive read that the type of solder used has something to do with it. Microsoft supposedly used very low quality solder at first, which eventually formed cracks at the solder points after prolonged use. This separated the contacts that the solder provided, which gives the RROD.
Overheating the system again reheats the solder points, which melts them back together, thus filling in the cracks, but that doesnt solve the problem permanently. Again, this is only what i have read, and i really dont know from experience, but it does make sense.
FudgeNuggets
04-20-09, 01:46 PM
Both Rud and Rainman are right. However, one correcting on the build of it. MicroSoft didn;t build or use anything, the cheap-o Chinese company they contracted did. I hope they learned their lesson on that as should anybody about buying something with a "Made in China" sticker on it. I mean how many pets do they have to kill, kids do they have to poison before greedy corporations learn that the skimp may = short terms profits but the lawsuits or in MicroSoft's case, repair builds totally negate that.
Both Rud and Rainman are right. However, one correcting on the build of it. MicroSoft didn;t build or use anything, the cheap-o Chinese company they contracted did. I hope they learned their lesson on that as should anybody about buying something with a "Made in China" sticker on it. I mean how many pets do they have to kill, kids do they have to poison before greedy corporations learn that the skimp may = short terms profits but the lawsuits or in MicroSoft's case, repair builds totally negate that.
Yeah, I hear that. Too bad half the stuff in my house is probably made in China -_-
Car is made in America though ^_^
That brings the total to.
1.
:(
don'tknow
04-20-09, 06:30 PM
Seeing "Made in China" makes me /sigh. But I like seeing "Made in Japan".
hajalie24
04-20-09, 06:38 PM
What that does is reflow the solder and spreads the thermal paste in a way. However I have done that fix, the xclamp fix on two xbox's and they both came back in a week. It is not permanent unless you reflow the motherboard with a heatgun or professional reflow station.
Seeing "Made in China" makes me /sigh. But I like seeing "Made in Japan".
The sad truth.
I truly wonder if MS will get their stuff right with the next xbox/whatever box they do in 2+ years.
deathman20
04-22-09, 12:36 PM
Yeah, I hear that. Too bad half the stuff in my house is probably made in China -_-
Car is made in America though ^_^
That brings the total to.
1.
:(
I doubt that everything in the car is made in America.
But yes overheating the system is temporary. Long term fix is to get it fixed or get a new system.
I doubt that everything in the car is made in America.
That's very true. -_-
But yes overheating the system is temporary. Long term fix is to get it fixed or get a new system.
Yep, like I said in my first post, it's out at Microsoft for repair now. And damn do I miss it. :(
I hope you do the x-clamp fix or at the very least get some external cooling after you get it back.
FudgeNuggets
04-23-09, 09:16 AM
I hope you do the x-clamp fix or at the very least get some external cooling after you get it back.
just don't stick one of those Intercoolers on it, that's a sure way to kill it.
Rudstock
04-23-09, 09:56 AM
I keep a mini desk fan behind mine at all times, blowing away from the console. It feels like its always moving a lot of warm air...
deathman20
04-23-09, 10:06 AM
I hope you do the x-clamp fix or at the very least get some external cooling after you get it back.
Mine runs quiet cool since I made to raised to let air flow under, over and around all sides of it. Cool air blows out the back nearly all the time even when gaming.
I've been using one of these:
http://inteclink.com/ProductImages/productshots/xbox360/js_G8646_prdct_L%20wXBOX.jpg
For some time now. It's got a lifetime warranty.
I'm not sure it actually does much, but it helps.
rainless
04-23-09, 10:51 AM
I've been using one of these:
http://inteclink.com/ProductImages/productshots/xbox360/js_G8646_prdct_L%20wXBOX.jpg
For some time now. It's got a lifetime warranty.
I'm not sure it actually does much, but it helps.
Hell... it might be what killed your system!
FudgeNuggets
04-23-09, 02:18 PM
Hell... it might be what killed your system!
Not sure about that one, blowing into the side may or may not harm it. I know sucking it out the back with one of those Intercrappers will sure as hell kill one and I know that the best method is a laptop cooling pad, pushing air up through the intakes in the bottom.
Also, I'm not a fan of sitting the 360 verticle due to disc scratching issues that have been noted in the past.
shadowsnkx
04-23-09, 03:31 PM
Get the Lian Li case. Its 100.00 bucks well spent
I searched for article on Intercooler TS killing 360 system or having a negative impact on it but couldn't find any. I'm curious Fudge if you have any link to it since you are so against it?
I have the Intercooler TS and have not run into any issue with it.
Get the Lian Li case. Its 100.00 bucks well spent
Only problem is your warranty. Beyond that, that case is the king.
hajalie24
04-23-09, 05:14 PM
Not sure about that one, blowing into the side may or may not harm it. I know sucking it out the back with one of those Intercrappers will sure as hell kill one and I know that the best method is a laptop cooling pad, pushing air up through the intakes in the bottom.
Also, I'm not a fan of sitting the 360 verticle due to disc scratching issues that have been noted in the past.
and the 360 runs cooler when its horizontal
FudgeNuggets
04-23-09, 09:14 PM
I searched for article on Intercooler TS killing 360 system or having a negative impact on it but couldn't find any. I'm curious Fudge if you have any link to it since you are so against it?
I have the Intercooler TS and have not run into any issue with it.
Really? A simple Google search containing "360 intercooler overheat" returns about a bajillion articles.
Tsnowflake
04-23-09, 11:09 PM
I searched for article on Intercooler TS killing 360 system or having a negative impact on it but couldn't find any. I'm curious Fudge if you have any link to it since you are so against it?
I have the Intercooler TS and have not run into any issue with it.
this happens
http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/F5J/JHG4/F6B7Q79R/F5JJHG4F6B7Q79R.MEDIUM.jpg
FudgeNuggets
04-24-09, 07:39 AM
this happens
http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/F5J/JHG4/F6B7Q79R/F5JJHG4F6B7Q79R.MEDIUM.jpg
Not only that but the intercooler disrupts the natural airflow in the 360 and works AGAINST the two exhaust fans in the back thus trapping more hot air in the console and expelling lesser but hotter air out the back. I've used a temp probe myself to confirm this. The air coming out the back is a good 30 degrees hotter.
I think there might be a misunderstanding here on which of the two Intercooler model I'm talking about. The first generation Intercooler EX (powered by the 360) can kill the 360 due to the fact that it draw power from the 360 itself.
The Intercooler TS (Temp Sensor with its own power cord) is the second generation model. http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Intercooler-TS/dp/B001COVHMS/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1240577191&sr=8-1.
deathman20
04-24-09, 08:16 AM
First Gen, Second Gen I would rather put my X360 in a stereo cabinet than put that cooler on it.
madhatter256
04-24-09, 08:22 AM
RROD is caused by many things. I have seen pictures where some of the SMD components (with the xbox stood on it's side, not horizontally) would slide off due to the solder liquefy due to the heat. Now MS is replacing it with error codes on the screen, but it's still considered an "RROD".
FudgeNuggets
04-24-09, 11:09 AM
First Gen, Second Gen I would rather put my X360 in a stereo cabinet than put that cooler on it.
damn skippy. The design is completely off. It interferes with the airflow and actually makes the internals hotter as explained above. Forget the melting power plug.
Both Rud and Rainman are right. However, one correcting on the build of it. MicroSoft didn;t build or use anything, the cheap-o Chinese company they contracted did. I hope they learned their lesson on that as should anybody about buying something with a "Made in China" sticker on it. I mean how many pets do they have to kill, kids do they have to poison before greedy corporations learn that the skimp may = short terms profits but the lawsuits or in MicroSoft's case, repair builds totally negate that.
Even if it was a Chinese company that put those weak parts/solder in, it was ultimately MS who should have done a quality check before releasing the console. The fact that the immediate failure rate is 10%, and probably as high as 30% for the console in general is too damn high. In order to release the system before the PS3, MS cut corners and ended having to cut into their profit margin to institute a repair policy.
FudgeNuggets
04-24-09, 05:42 PM
Even if it was a Chinese company that put those weak parts/solder in, it was ultimately MS who should have done a quality check before releasing the console. The fact that the immediate failure rate is 10%, and probably as high as 30% for the console in general is too damn high. In order to release the system before the PS3, MS cut corners and ended having to cut into their profit margin to institute a repair policy.
I don't disagree. I hope they've learned their lesson.
MonkeyMhz
05-01-09, 03:58 PM
I just dropped my Xbox360 in the bathtub while playing. Put it out of its misery, lol no but seriously they do get too hot. Even PS3 gets pretty hot. IMO, we need cooler looking and cooler running consoles.
Forget about making them smaller, make them bigger, most beastly and more quality. As long as it can fit in a backpack its good to go.
deathman20
05-01-09, 04:09 PM
I just dropped my Xbox360 in the bathtub while playing. Put it out of its misery, lol no but seriously they do get too hot. Even PS3 gets pretty hot. IMO, we need cooler looking and cooler running consoles.
Forget about making them smaller, make them bigger, most beastly and more quality. As long as it can fit in a backpack its good to go.
Im all for making them slightly bigger if it helps keep it cooler, and quieter. But no need to go overkill on the size of it. IMO they should look at keeping the die size and thermals under control though. Sure they probably took it into account but I really wonder if MS will learn from there costly mistake they did this past time.
ChanceCoats123
05-02-09, 02:26 AM
This is one of the reasons I like pc gaming... But I have never known what causes the RROD... Hmm my friends basically all play cod waw everyday so I hear this total crap from them 24/7 and how I should get an xbox, and I say I am fine with my much faster multitasking pc, but back on topic, the mobo warping also happens to the silicon wafer in cpu's when you have bad cooling that constantly fluctuates and then you turn your comp off to let it cool back to room temp. Granted, an unusable cpu would take years and years of improper cooling to develope.
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