culpript: dead fan or magnetic screwdriver?

[Goat000]

Hey guys... read the forum rules and this seems like the best place to post, hope so.

I've got a P3 733MhZ/Azza DVAX+2 Via MoBo. I've been running the 133 MhZ mobo at 150MhZ, for a CPU speed of 825 MhZ. The only cooling I've got is the stock intel CPU heat sink/fan unit.

I got annoyed at my PS/2 KB connection the other day and unscrewed the mobo from the case in order to remove the metal sheet that surrounds the PS/2 KB case (thought it was blocking the connection)

Idiot that I am, I did it with the power running. Didn't realize it at the time, but I was using a magnetic-tipped screwdriver (doh).

So in the middle of screwing the thing back in, the comp resets, and hasn't been able to do a thing except beeping since then. When I power on, I get three beeps (long short short) with no monitor output, no noticable drive scan except for CD spin-up (independant operation?), and most conspicuously, no fan activity.

I've checked all visible cables for snugness, etc.

I figure my system may have two causes for the coma:
A) I messed up the CMOS with the magnetic screwdriver, the system restarted while I was in the process of screwing somethign back in.
B) Without a fan the CPU cooked. I had been running it with one side of the case off for cooling, but it let a lot of dust gather, and there was a ton stuck in the fan.

I'm not really comfortable resetting the CMOS settings, so I'd like to avoid it if possible, though I could hack it if necassary, I think. Anyone out there have a better guess than me? I'd really appreciate it.

Thank you,
Brian

[Yodums]

Do you have a spare computer to test these parts on?

I really think you took out the motherboard or video card.

The video card when mine was dead made like 3-4 beeps then blank.

Or the motherboard won't post.

Next time don't use a magnets around the motherboard and the cpu and make sure you have the PSU coord out and the PSU OFF!

Make sure you touch the casing first.

But to narrow it down it wouldn't necessarly be the CMOS at all.

My money is on the motherboard or video card.

You didn't come in contact and touch the motherboard did you? Or the video card?

Yodums

[Yodums]

I was wondering in the process when you realized your power was on you put back the screw and then screwed back it?

Hmmm think you shocked something did you touch a component in the board or the video card?

Ya should of yanked the coord!

Yodums

[batboy]

OMG, you loosened up the mobo with it running??? Sounds like you shorted something out or static zapped something. Never mess with components with the computer running. I'd remove the mobo and make sure nothing is shorting it out and carefully reinstall it. Maybe you'll get lucky.

[Goat000]

<<I was wondering in the process when you realized your power was on you put back the screw and then screwed back it? >>

No no, I knew it was on the whole time, but at 4:30 in the morning somehow the inconvenience of restarting when I was done outweighed the possiblity of frying the whole system. A moment of stupidity was remembering, for sure. I know better :o

I didn't really touch anything myself, but the *&^% magnetic screwdriver got pretty close to some mobo components I'm sure (though I don't remember touching anything specifically), in the process of unscrewing and rescrewing.

I just took another look at "the crash site." When the comp reset, the screwdriver tip was near the following circuitry:

-corner of the video card. half inch maybe from the back side, corresponding component on the stuffed side is a memory chip, vid card processor is about 4 inches away.

-a RAM module
half inch inches from the side of the module

-an unidentifiable IC on the mobo
about an inch away, IC is about 1"x.5" for what it's worth.

Is the cooked CPU theory a possibility at all? (from the heat- it was about 4 inches from the screwdriver at crash time.)

Guess I'm looking at picking up a new mobo, cooling unit, and vid card at the upcoming computer show... and probably a CPU whether I need it or not. Gives me an excuse to upgrade a little if nothing else (but it was a new vid card! the pain!).

Thanks for the response, btw.

Brian

addition: the only spare parts I have are too old to use with this comp's components- ISA cards, etc. So testing independently is no good, gonna have to just pay up I think.

[nuciles]

You may try to borrow parts from your friends, your family or whose ever else. Buy the parts when you make sure they are dead. Or, you are too rich to do so.

[Yodums]

Well think about it this way the steel tray is meant for it to not be static shocked and I think you static shocked something in the process of doing that.

You will have to find the problem at a local shop if you can't test it.

Like I said it is either the:

Motherboard(Most Likely)
or
Video card.

But I think you may have killed some other stuff you realise how easy one component can take down others with it in the process of being eletricuted. Try not to be lazy or stupid when it comes to the CPU components it doesn't take much to kill such a valuable source.

Were you wearing static clothing in the process?

Try batboy's method of replugging everything in.

Heres a tip: Either get the 3M Anti-Static Wrist Straps or touch the case before working in the CPU to kill the static and don't wear static clothing.

Yodums

[batboy]

It could be possible that the is CPU fried. But usually the motherboard don't beep if it's fried. Sometimes RAM problems cause weird beepings. It also seems suspicous that the fans don't work now. Is the power supply exhaust fan inoperative too? If so, maybe try reseating the main motherboard power connector. Try pulling cards out and reseating them, especially the vid card. Good luck.

[Sir-Epix]

I think it is a seating problem...either video card or ram. Try reseating both, and see what happens.

[nuciles]

Originally posted by Goat000
When I power on, I get three beeps (long short short) with no monitor output, no noticable drive scan except for CD spin-up (independant operation?), and most conspicuously, no fan activity.

Any one knows what the beeps mean? My friend who is working in a computer shop will know what these beeps mean, but I don't. I don't think I can ask him for you since I will be out of town for a month tomorrow. I wonder if anyone here knows these beeps? It helps to regconize what part is defective.

[M00CH]

should of stated this if from

http://www.tyan.com/support/html/bv7.html

have to give credit

1.7 What do the beep codes mean?

Beep Codes (AMI and Award BIOS)

Fatal errors, which halt the boot process, are communicated through a series of audible beeps. If AMIBIOS POST can initialize the system video display, it displays the error message. Displayed error messages, in most cases, allow the system to continue to boot. Below are the most common beep codes.

Note: The Award BIOS only has 1 beep code (1 long beep followed by 2 short beeps) which occurs when video can not be intialized; all other beep codes refer to a RAM error.


Beep Codes (AMI BIOS Only)


If the computer beeps...
then...

5 short beeps + 1 long beep
No memory detected in the system

6 short beeps + 1 long beep
Mixed memory types

9 short beeps + 1 long beep
(SPD) EDO in desktop system

10 short beeps + 1 long beep
Invalid SPD in 100Mhz system

11 short beeps + 1 long beep
First 64K memory testing error

9 short beeps
The system video adapter is either missing or is faulty

hope this helps... looks like a vid card prob to me

[batboy]

Sounds like Yodums and others were maybe on the right track. It's beginning to appear like either the vid card needs reseated or the vid card got zapped. BTW, different BIOS chips have different beep codes. Good job to MOOCH for the research. HOWEVER, that don't explain why the cooling fans are inoperative...sigh.

[Gersen]

I'm going to speculate that you roached your +12 volt supply. Pull a power connector off a drive and check the voltages between black & red (5V) and black & yellow (12V).

Gersen

[Goat000]

For a forum newbie, it's pretty amazing to see all these responses. Sincere thanks to all who have posted.

Now, some notes on recent posts:

<<Note: The Award BIOS only has 1 beep code (1 long beep followed by 2 short beeps) which occurs when video can not be intialized; all other beep codes refer to a RAM error. >>

I'm pretty sure that my BIOS is an Award, but listening closely, its long + *3* shorts I'm getting rather than two, unless I'm mistaking the end of the long beep with a separate short. Any way to tell which BIOS I've got from looking at it? I don't even know where it is/what it looks like on my board, though I have located the reset CMOS jumper, so I imagine it's nearby.

I wonder how reliable a diagnostic this- could mobo problems fake a bad video card?


<<I think it is a seating problem...either video card or ram. Try reseating both, and see what happens.>>
<<Try pulling cards out and reseating them, especially the vid card. Good luck.>>
I'll probably give this a run tonight after work. Only problem is it brings up possibilities later on of improper reseating, so one more thing to worry about.

<<I'm going to speculate that you roached your +12 volt supply. Pull a power connector off a drive and check the voltages between black & red (5V) and black & yellow (12V). >>

I checked the power supply fan; it IS operative. Does that cancel out that possibility? I'm willing to believe it's a coincidence that I was mucking around improperly with the system around the same time the fan died on its own. I'm not sure, but I believe I heard the fan struggling to survive a few months ago, but it kicked back up after slowing down a couple of times.

Thanks again everyone,
Brian

[Yodums]

Well you can't possibly go further and have to find out for yourself what the problem is by actually testing the component now.

If you got a friend who has a Socket 370 motherboard you should test it there and narrow it down easily.

Just this time don't go fubar and do it while the power is on and make sure your static-free :D

Yodums

[Silver arrow]

Oh yes I can still hear it in my head.

*beeeeeeeep* *beep* *beep* *beep*

Thats what happened when my video card needed to be reseated because there was too much dust on my ol' BH6's AGP slot.

If you have the award bios, then it's definetly the video card.

[TUK101]

My 10 bucks are on the video card. I have an award bios and it does the same thing if my card is not seated, or if I forget to plug in the monitor. Try just buying a new video card, or borrowing one before you go and spend the few hundred on new mobo and processor. :beer:

[Goat000]

I'm certainly happy it turned out this way... but I do feel pretty silly for bringing up a thread that garnered 16 replies on something this simple...

I reseated the video card. Yes, that's all it took. Congrats to the correct guessers ;) I didn't even suspect the video card before I started the thread, so I'm definitely grateful for the advice.

In retrospect, neither leaving the power on nor working with magnets bit me in the butt directly. On the other hand, had I done things sanely, with the power off, reseating my cards would have been the obvious first course of action- instead I had so many failure possibilities that it was difficult to weed out the proper one.

The dead CPU fan remains, but everything else is running fine... I'll grab a replacement tomorrow.

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts and advice. And yes, I'll keep away from the magnets. :eek:

Brian