7 External Fans & Temps are still out of control

[richklein]

Hi all,
I did a little cutting & dremeling today to get some extra fans going. I did a count & have 7 external fans & my temps are still way out of control.

I have a XP1900, Asus AVA266-E & my normal Idle temps are about 50-55 C. Full load gets no higher than 60C. It is still way to hot considering the airplane sounds that I live with.

The internals are as follows:

Scsi Cheatah 10k rpm drive
Maxtor 80 gig
Maxtor 8 gig
Scsi CD-Rom
Scsi CDR
Nicklock
Scsi Card
Sound card
GF3
Nick Card

So there are plenty of cables & such floating around & plenty of other fans not depicted below.

I also have a Volcano 7.

Anyway, any circle in the pics is an external fan. S=sucking air into the case, B=Blowing air away from the case.

My case sits in the open ontop of my desk.

I am at a total loss & cant keep throwing more fans at the problem :)

http://richardklein.com/temp/Case/case.jpg


Any ideas on what I can do to fix these terrible temps? I am not overclocking at all at this point.

Thanks,
Rich

[Nate1492]

Is it your CPU temp or your internal case temp?

You could always go water cooled :-D

You may also have too many fans working against each other... The air my not be circulating out properly and you are just pulling out some air and leaving some stale air inside...

[nihili]

Ok, here are some ideas.

First, given those temps I'd think you likely have a problem with the mounting of the heatsink. What thermal compound did you use? How much of it? How certain are you that the heatsink is mounted absolutely flat? As I recall, the volcano7 has a variable speed fan (I may be misremembering). If so, did you disable it so that the fan runs at full all the time?

Second. You didn't say what kind of fans those are. Are they all the same kind? If so how much cfm does each one push. If not, make sure that the cfm is relatively balanced between input and output.

Third. As far as airflow, you should swith the direction of the fan on the left side of the case and the one on top. You've got some short circuit air patterns there. Also the Volcano (I believe) blows air down on to the heatsink. By having an exhaust fan just above it you may be substantially decreasing the ability of the Volcano to move air. Basically the fans would be acting against each other. Make sure that the heatsink fan and the left side fan are blowing in the same direction. Also, other things being equal it's best to have your top fan exhausting.

Fourth. Given that you already have a fan in the left side of your case, try putting in a duct between the heatsink and the case fan. If you use the duct as an intake, it will blow cool air directly on the heatsink, thus making it cool better. If you use it as an exhaust it will lower your case temps substantially, this will also make your heatsink work better than without a duct.

I'd start off by switching the the direction of the left and top fans. Then check your heatsink install. Then build a duct.

nihili

[res0r9lm]

got to be a problem with hsf no reason why you would need all those fans. I'm using 92mm panflo h1 for exuast and that is it other than the one for psu and my core temps never get over
43c@full load w/1.4 T-bird it depends on ambient temp

[bobt17]

both the asus boards i have used (asus a7m266 and a7v266-e) have had temps reported that are about 10C hotter then what they should be applying that to what u have said i would say your temps are about right. btw have u moded that volcano7? it has a temp sensor on it that will keep the fan going slow unless it gets really hot in your case then it would speed up.. u need to cut that off and connect the wires so it will always stay max speed

[res0r9lm]

Originally posted by bobt17
both the asus boards i have used (asus a7m266 and a7v266-e) have had temps reported that are about 10C hotter then what they should be applying that to what u have said i would say your temps are about right. btw have u moded that volcano7? it has a temp sensor on it that will keep the fan going slow unless it gets really hot in your case then it would speed up.. u need to cut that off and connect the wires so it will always stay max speed
I think all asus boards report higher that what they actually are.
I have spent mucho denro trying to keep cool but I would say richklein still has a problem with overheat though if it was off 10c
would still be 45c@idle

[bobt17]

he also said that it gets no hotter then 60C under load so that would be 50C witch is kind of hot but not too bad

[UserName]

I agree with nihili

The left lower and right lower "b"'s should be fliped into "s"'s.

If that dont get you 5C i'll eat YOUR shorts

[oc jason]

basically id talk six of the SAME fans, and put 3 at front blowing in, and 3 in rear sucking out...that is the simple way. Same fan mean ing size, brand everything. And also correctly mount HS

[richklein]

Thanks for all the responses. I am pretty sure I have the heatsink mounted properly. I am using AS2 as the thermal grease. I will say that my GF's XP1700 was idling at 65C & I swaped my Volcano 6 onto hers & added a few fans & now it idles at around 42C.

Mine is still damm hot.

I am adding some extra images so you can see the case.

Keep in mind, that last night I had the sides & top off of the case & it still idled at 54C.

http://richardklein.com/temp/Case/pic1.jpg

http://richardklein.com/temp/Case/pic2.jpg

http://richardklein.com/temp/Case/pic3.jpg

http://richardklein.com/temp/Case/pic4.jpg

[bobt17]

well did u mod that volcano7? if not its probly running with some low rpms

[Asheron]

if you can find my thread it might help, we are alot alike

modiffy your volcano by making it run at max speed, that was the first thing that dropped my temps

second you have toclean up all those wires, you have no air flow

you can have a million fans running but with all those wires like that, its not flowing right

i only have 4 fans only 2 intake and 2 exhaust i have finally put my temps to Cpu Idle 36C, Full load 41C, im working on making it cooler without spending anymore money.

[richklein]

Hrm. So how do you mod the volcano7? Is there a write up on how to do it?

[Asheron]

find the sensor, its green that is connected to the fan on top of the volcano

cut the sensor off as close as you can to the green part

then strip the wires back carefully so you can rewire it back together and use electrical tape to cover it up

it took me awhile to do it, im not the best with small wires

but if you get it right you will have fan going at 4900-5000 rmps all the time instead of the 2500-3000

it lowered my temp by 5degrees

[richklein]

I did swap the rear fan to blow into the case & the side fan by the CPU to blow fan into the case & this has resulted in a 3 degree temp drop (down to 52C).

This is still just to darn hot.

Now when I had the case completely open (no sides or top) the CPU temp at idle was 54C. That is with 0 airflow issues.

The only other thing I can think of is that the heatsink isnt seated quite properly.

Is it possible for the heatsink to be close but not quite totally on? I put the vol7 in with the whole system setup so I couldnt quite see anything at all :) It locked down nice & snug & it is cooler than the vol6 (by a degree or two).

Any ideas?

The system is stable but it seems that the CPU temp is way to hot.


I tried the cardboard thing too. A lose non-taped one but one that directs the two fans directly to the cpu. I am now at 52C at idle.

[res0r9lm]

I wouldn't put too much stock in what mb is reporting. should round cables

[Asheron]

only thing i think of is lapping and using arctic silver paste on the heatsink

and clearing up all those wires from blocking flow


and maybe using a better monitoring program like motherboard monitor

[res0r9lm]

mbm isn't going to report any different it's in the bios

[res0r9lm]

lapping will help

[Asheron]

i read that when viewing temps in the bios it is hotter than in windows

it wont solve his problem but that why it will be a better idling temperature, and he can compare over time, it wouldnt hurt to have it

[res0r9lm]

yea I agree it is way better progam

[Asheron]

wht are you using to cool your system, that looks like a water setup to me

i have 80mm Cfm 4 fans cooling my system, and i can only get it down it 36C with 41 Load, im working on it without spending alot of money

[richklein]

Well, I did ziptie some of the wires.

The problem is I have to many things in the PC. Oh well :)

I tried MBM5 & for some reason i couldnt find a setting to make it report the CPU temp.

I am using Artic Silver 2 as the grease.

So to mod the Vol7 I just cut around the green thing & splice the wires together? I have not taken the vol7 apart. Can I remove the fan & leave the Heatsink on the CPU (or do I remove the whole heatsink?)


Oh the MB says it is at 32C in the Asus Probe.

BTW - What is lapping ?

[Asheron]

yes you can just take off the fan to do the speed mod

for Mbm 5, you have set the cpu sensor in settings

and you really do need to fix the wires if you want lower temps

i will let the experts explain the lapping part, im still in the process of doing it myself, but its pretty much sanding down with wet sandpaper to make better contact surface for the paste and heatsink

[res0r9lm]

the most important part is to get nice and flat. I use a pane of glass and lay the sand paper in it and go in a figire 8 pattern. start with 400 grit work your way up to 1500. try to put pressure evenly on heatsink

[richklein]

Hrm. Is there a lapping FAQ?

[res0r9lm]

Originally posted by Asheron
wht are you using to cool your system, that looks like a water setup to me

i have 80mm Cfm 4 fans cooling my system, and i can only get it down it 36C with 41 Load, im working on it without spending alot of money I'm using swiftech mc462a w/80mm delta
onmy 1.4 t bird with a v core of 1.66 and my case is a fong kia fk-320 got 92mm fan exausting.

[res0r9lm]

haven't seen one

[res0r9lm]

here is a lapping article I found

lapping (http://www.overclockers.com.au/techstuff/sand1/)

[ButcherUK]

btw what's a nicklock? You have one listed in your sig, any relation to a NIC or is it some other thing?

[richklein]

http://www.nicklock.com/ - it is a hard drive selectable thingy. I have win98 on one HD & WinXP on another. Its an easy way to switch master & slave settings. Plus it has a lock (easy to defeat though).

[M00CH]

another thing you have the top fan blowing air in, it should be sucking air out... hot air rises and all you doing to pushing the warm air back down on to the cpu....


i have one 120mm blowing air onto the cpu, ram and the n/Bridge
one case fan blwoing air onto the pic slots and one exhaust fan (plus the P/S's) and my idle temps are only 29degres celius..
49-52 100%load


so you should have no prob getting lower temps

[The Doors]

I totally agree with M00CH,
I'm sorry richklein, but the airlow into your case is not set properly at all, the intake must be in the lowest part of Case possible, generally front/low & on the the left panel, so the fresh air is sucked onto the Pci/Agp cards like on the Cpu HeatSink too, and the exhaust must be in the highest, on the upper cover of case like in the high part of the lateral panel, coz the hot air is more light than the cool air and so tends to go up.
Other tips are about the fan on the HS that must sucks the air onto the HS fins, and the amount of air used for the intake must be the same of the exhaust too (consider the fans CFM).
When the airflow will be set properly you'll get a case temp of 2-3 max degree above the ambient temp.

I hope it helps you ;) and obviously welcome to the Forum!

[richklein]

Well, As i was trying to mod the volcano 7, I ended up completely pulling out one of the two heat sensor wires. :mad:

I believe it was the yellow heat sensor wire. I see a spot that I could soder it back but my soder gun is too large.

I plugged the fan back in & it still works but the Mobo is not reading RPMS in windows.

In the bios it said it was running at 6800 RPM, but the fan is supposed to only do 5k max. Either way for the moment that machine is down.

I did order some round cables & a 80 mm 80CFM delta fan for this volcano 7 heatsink. I wanted to get an alpha 8045 & scrap this HS but it wont fit into my board without mods & dremeling in the case.

Since I can not even splice a wire together I think dremeling in the case is out of the question.

The rounded cables should be here soon at least. Hope the extra 30cfm going right into the processor will make a noticiable difference in temp.

Hopefully the hearing loss wont be too bad either :)

Thanks ,

Rich

[The Doors]

Hi richklein,
don't worry, you can still use the fan on the HS even if without the Rpm signal cable, coz it's needed only to check that the fan is working properly, nothing else ;) about the Delta's I suppose that you'll use that at 7v coz are really noisy at 12v, another possible way is a rheostat to set the desidered voltage.

[richklein]

So the question is, now in the bios it says that the fan is running at 700RPM. Is that right or did the thermal sensor wire getting removed do something to make it think the RPM is off?

[The Doors]

Well, if the Rpm signal cable is disconnected from the fan & the mobo it's for sure a wrong report of Bios, and that voice can be disabled for the moment.

[richklein]

Well i was able to soder the connections back together & the fan is running at 5kRPM always. I guess since the delta is coming to me, I will use the Volcano fan on the case above the CPU & use the delta on the volcano heatsink. Its gonna be noisy but should be cooler I hope.

[The Doors]

At this point it's for sure the welding,
about the possible results of the HS with the Delta, will be for sure better, but it's fundamental the case temp, coz from there it sucks the air to cool the HS.

[UserName]

do this (http://www.overclockers.com/tips461/index02.asp) and forget about it.

And turn your front fan(s) around.

[diehrd]

Great tips in this post from several people.Here are 2 that saved me 5c at max load.One was ducting direct outside ait to heatsink fans{Delta 38cfm fans}I used 2 PVC pipe reducers 3.5 to 3.0 inches round to duct the heatsinks.And then I installed 2 lower intake and 4 upper exhaust fans all 33cfm each.I also made sure air flow could disperse as evenly as possible on mainboard by removing all wiring from in front of it.I actually got long ide cables and ran them behing Motherboard.This was a challange cause the ducts and wiring needed precise locations and I aint much on precision.The boh you see is almost complete and I have a new side comming to transfer all my work to in a neater fasion.

[diehrd]

Image shows ducting of sinks.The side is on order and new grills.Will also paint it and install my T-Bird emblem from that ford T-Bird I grabed it from lol

[diehrd]

This is the clean open arer I made with longer ide cables

[richklein]

I see the idea of running things behind the board. I will give that a shot with my scsi cables since they are long enough to do it. I will take a long hard look at it.

Then again the round cables are going to be here in a few days so maybe I will wait :)

Think the cardboard vent I made is safe? Somehow it is strange to put something like that in the case.

The side case fan is not directly above the CPU fan.

I will be putting the 5kRPM fan on the side above the CPU & putting the new 80CFM fan on the heatsink when it gets here.

http://richardklein.com/temp/Case/pic5.jpg

[richklein]

Oh my temps now are at 47-49C idle & about 52C max load (using Toast for testing).


I am really wondering if the extra degree of cooling I get with the cardboard thing is worth the "risk" of a fire?

[UserName]

There is no risk of fire.

451F (read the book) is the flash point of paper. You ever get a quarter of the way there any you be worrying about paper to pay for new stuff and not that cardboard.

think about the hoot blower.

[richklein]

Hoot Blower? What is that? Or is that the cardboard thing?

[richklein]

NM, I am a bit slow today. THat thing is huge. I dont think I have the room on my desk for it.

[Caffinehog]

I've seen a couple posts where someone has chipped the processor core and that has increased the temperature for some reason. Also, as far as the arctic silver 2... did you slather it or make a thin layer? I used way too much the first time I did it. As thin as will work is the key.

Also, the fan on top should be blowing out.... heat rises. Blow in from the bottom, out from the top.