Innovatek WaterBlocks??

[hpotter]

Has anyone tried the Innovatek water blocks? And does anyone know where to get them? Also what water blocks do you all use. I'm thinking about getting the DangerDen Maze-2.

Thanks

[FrozenInHI]

I use the Z4 from www.overclockershideout.com I've also used the maze block and it works just about as good in my system, temp diff of about 3c, so not real big.

[ButcherUK]

I know of a few people that have them for testing but no results yet. THG (ugh) did a review of Innovatech's kit vs Swifty's, the innovatech barely beat the fanless swfty so this doesn't exactly say good things. Of course it may just be that THG can't setup a water system to save their lives. :p

[Henry Rollins II]

You must have got that wrong somehow, I read the test and Innovatek whoop Swiftec´s ass real good.

read it:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q1/020102/index.html

regards,
Henry.

[ButcherUK]

No I read the numbers, not Tom's load of babbling crap. He sates the swiftech gets whooped, but it's a small difference in temps and they were running the swifty kit without fans even though it is CLEARLY shown on the swifty site with fans. Radiators don;t work well without fans, therefor the swifty was performing poorly. Also check their temps, over 50C on a 1.4tbird is hardly something to get excited about. Given the innovatech can barely beat a fanless swifty I'd say it would get whooped by anny real setup available.

[Neco]

I said it before and I'll say it again.


I wouldn't trust that idiot Tom, to benchmark a stick of glue.

[The Overclocker]

Originally posted by Henry Rollins II
You must have got that wrong somehow, I read the test and Innovatek whoop Swiftec´s ass real good.

read it:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q1/020102/index.html

regards,
Henry.

toms hardware suck, if it was a fair test then swiftech would have won. full stop. the inovetec system is crap. 50 degrees celcus?

[Henry Rollins II]

:mad:
First of all: Tom doesn´t make any tests anymore. Tomshardware.com has a staff of about 20 people.

Second: I don´t think the scale of the charts are correct in terms of relation to a real cpu. But they do show the performance difference between the two systems.

Third: I think it is quite pathetic to hear stuff like: "I wouldn´t trust that idiot Tom blablabla..." . Toms Hardware has a quite large staff employed that does nothing but benchmark and test computer stuff all day long. I really don´t think amatuers with a slighly religious point of view of overclocking have enough on their feet to rack down on them. How much stuff did u test and benchmark? How much did you hear from somebody else?

regards,
Henry.

[VashTheStampede]

Originally posted by Henry Rollins II
:mad:
Third: I think it is quite pathetic to hear stuff like: "I wouldn´t trust that idiot Tom blablabla..." . Toms Hardware has a quite large staff employed that does nothing but benchmark and test computer stuff all day long. I really don´t think amatuers with a slighly religious point of view of overclocking have enough on their feet to rack down on them. How much stuff did u test and benchmark? How much did you hear from somebody else?

regards,
Henry.

Oks, I wouldn't trust Tom's Hardware in general since I discovered Overclockers.com and Ars Technica and [H].

Just because Best Buy's Computer Repair section employs more than 1 person does not automatically make them smart. Just because they are employed in a field of computers does not make them any smarter than your average computer illiterate person. I have serviced those kids' PCs before, they screw up all kinds of things, which nearly all of it ends up being End User Error.

I have seen Tom's slowly spiral downward ever since competition in the form of us and [H] and Ars moved on in.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein

But hey, there is already a Tom-hate thread on the Debates forum.

As for the waterblocks, there haven't been any major breakthroughs in WB technology recently, your safest bet is to stick with the DangerDen block. It's well known and respected.

~Vash~

[f155mph]

Originally posted by Henry Rollins II
:mad:
First of all: Tom doesn´t make any tests anymore. Tomshardware.com has a staff of about 20 people.

Second: I don´t think the scale of the charts are correct in terms of relation to a real cpu. But they do show the performance difference between the two systems.

Third: I think it is quite pathetic to hear stuff like: "I wouldn´t trust that idiot Tom blablabla..." . Toms Hardware has a quite large staff employed that does nothing but benchmark and test computer stuff all day long. I really don´t think amatuers with a slighly religious point of view of overclocking have enough on their feet to rack down on them. How much stuff did u test and benchmark? How much did you hear from somebody else?

regards,
Henry.

Nothing against you personally but did you look at the testing unit he use to conduct the test??? It from innovatech, take a look here for your self: http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q1/020102/watercooling-08.html
Notice it have the company name stamp on it. Do you think he paid for that thing? Of course not, if they pay for everything they test, all the reviewers will be poor. Hence they wouldn't give it a bad review when someone give you a nice present like that.
:cool:

[Henry Rollins II]

Originally posted by f155mph


Nothing against you personally but did you look at the testing unit he use to conduct the test??? It from innovatech, take a look here for your self: http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q1/020102/watercooling-08.html
Notice it have the company name stamp on it. Do you think he paid for that thing? Of course not, if they pay for everything they test, all the reviewers will be poor. Hence they wouldn't give it a bad review when someone give you a nice present like that.
:cool:

Aw, come on! Get real! They don´t pay **** for anything they are testing, propably not for the testing equipment either.

And BTW: Innovatek isn´t really a manufacturer, they are a supplier of a lot of different brands, among them Alpha, Senfu, GlobalWin, Zalman etc. etc. Maybe you belive that all these brands have a star in Tomshardware.com heaven?

regards,
Henry.

Post edited by Forum Moderator

We do not allow name calling in our forums. Please refrain from doing so.

Thelemac

[Henry Rollins II]

Originally posted by VashTheStampede


Just because Best Buy's Computer Repair section employs more than 1 person does not automatically make them smart. Just because they are employed in a field of computers does not make them any smarter than your average computer illiterate person..


Yes, but we aint talkning about "Best Buy´s Computer repair" here. Tomshardware is THE leading source for testing and benchmarking computer hardware on the internet, and has been so for a looong time.

regards,
Henry.

[ButcherUK]

Um if Tom's and Innovatech are soo great then why the hell are the temps so high. My setup isn't particularly great but I can throw 115W at it and stay below 50C (and that's on the in-socket which tends to read high in water cooled setups), yet Tom's manages to make two kits reach well over 50C on a 72W heat load (tbird 1.4 line). Even given that he seems to have a 30C ambient (WTF?) that's very high. Also if the innovatech is so great and tom is right WTF didn't he test it against the swifty with fans? afraid it would get a total kicking? I think so. Frankly I don't know which is better of the two, the Tom's test is so poorly done and give so little data that it's worthless. I will be waiting until we get a real review of the block.

BTW if you want to see what a real comparison test is check Bill's radiator article - that actually compares properly and has real data.

[f155mph]

I didn't see anyone write that "Swiftech is the best." Most of us simply want to state that Tom's hardware didn't give a fair review to the Swiftech system. The swiftech is design to be used with a fan, swiftech just didn't include a fan with there kit. So I guess from Tom's stand point if something is not included it doesn't need to be used. In Tom's case if you get an oem cpu, you don't need a heatsink.

"I think this is the case: You nerds have already decided that Swiftech is the best, and don´t really care about anything else.

regards,
Henry."

Post edited by Forum Moderator

We do not allow name calling in our forums. Please refrain from doing so.

Thelemac

[VashTheStampede]

Originally posted by Henry Rollins II


Yes, but we aint talkning about "Best Buy´s Computer repair" here. Tomshardware is THE leading source for testing and benchmarking computer hardware on the internet, and has been so for a looong time.

regards,
Henry.

Tomshardware is THE misleading source for testing and benchmarking computer hardware on the internet. Like when testing the Duron against the Celeron. He used SDRAM on the Celeron, to be fair he should of used SDRAM for the Duron too, but did he? NOPE! He used DDR! In every non-memory bandwidth related benchmark he posted, the Celeron came out on top, but who did he declare the winner? The Duron.

The fun does not stop there. In his first Koolance review he ran the system overspec and underpowered and blamed Koolance, striking it down as a poor system, due to his and his own staff lack of mental capability.

Probably in the most recent act of biasness, is the fact he said he wouldn't change the FSB on the P4 he tested, saying changing the FSB would make the system unstable in any system, but what did he do on the XP? Change the FSB and overclock it.

He, and his staff, is biased towards Intel and Nvidia, all of his comparison reviews are dripping with it. Hell I just got through reading his 8500 vs Ti500 comparison, COULD HE GET ANY MORE ATI and RADEON IMAGES IN A SINGLE REVIEW!! Hell I don't think I remember seeing any Nvidia graphics except for that one tiny banner at the top. He worships ATI, in that review he was saying stuff like "Even though this 8500 was an early test model I managed to get the core to 300MHz and memory to 620MHz". Anyword about the Ti500? Nope, went right to the Radeon-image laden benchmarks. Did he use any other tests other than Quake3? Nope.

Any true comparison INVOLVES MULTIPLE BENCHMARKS!!!!!!!!! I know the 8500 is good, but Tom and his staff need to be a GREAT DEAL less biased and stop rigging benchmarks in the favor of their favorite thing at the time.

~Vash~

[Henry Rollins II]

Originally posted by VashTheStampede


Tomshardware is THE misleading source for testing and benchmarking computer hardware on the internet. Like when testing the Duron against the Celeron. He used SDRAM on the Celeron, to be fair he should of used SDRAM for the Duron too, but did he? NOPE! He used DDR! In every non-memory bandwidth related benchmark he posted, the Celeron came out on top, but who did he declare the winner? The Duron.

The fun does not stop there. In his first Koolance review he ran the system overspec and underpowered and blamed Koolance, striking it down as a poor system, due to his and his own staff lack of mental capability.

Probably in the most recent act of biasness, is the fact he said he wouldn't change the FSB on the P4 he tested, saying changing the FSB would make the system unstable in any system, but what did he do on the XP? Change the FSB and overclock it.

He, and his staff, is biased towards Intel and Nvidia, all of his comparison reviews are dripping with it. Hell I just got through reading his 8500 vs Ti500 comparison, COULD HE GET ANY MORE ATI and RADEON IMAGES IN A SINGLE REVIEW!! Hell I don't think I remember seeing any Nvidia graphics except for that one tiny banner at the top. He worships ATI, in that review he was saying stuff like "Even though this 8500 was an early test model I managed to get the core to 300MHz and memory to 620MHz". Anyword about the Ti500? Nope, went right to the Radeon-image laden benchmarks. Did he use any other tests other than Quake3? Nope.

Any true comparison INVOLVES MULTIPLE BENCHMARKS!!!!!!!!! I know the 8500 is good, but Tom and his staff need to be a GREAT DEAL less biased and stop rigging benchmarks in the favor of their favorite thing at the time.

~Vash~

Wow, that was long, see if I can narrow it down a bit.

1. Koolance: Shortly after the review, Koolance completely reworked their case. Would they have done this if it were without flaws?

2. By your sig I can tell that you have a Duron with PC100 memory and a GF3 card. That would mean that you are angry with Toms hardware because they tested the Duron with DDR and rate the 8500 higher than the GF3?

3. What would the point of testing the Duron with SDRAM be? Who is likely to buy a Duron? Somebody who has an Athlon socket A with SDRAM memory and wish to "down-grade"? Why would anyone buy a Duron and a new mobo with SDRAM? DDR and SDRAM is about the same price.

4. Tomshardware also made a giant-test of GF3 cards, and has stated that the Ti200 is the best buy in it´s pricerange. Is this in favor of the Radeon 7500?

regards,
Henry.

[VashTheStampede]

Originally posted by Henry Rollins II


Wow, that was long, see if I can narrow it down a bit.

1. Koolance: Shortly after the review, Koolance completely reworked their case. Would they have done this if it were without flaws?

Yeah, it's called natural progression of technology. The case would of been upgraded at will to continue to turn a profit. With or without Tom's staff running the Koolance case BEYOND IT'S SPECS Koolance would of made an upgraded system anyway. Your pretty much saying Tom was in the right for running the Koolance system beyond it's limitations and then bashing it. That's sort of like when they removed the heatsink off the AMD (If they were biased towards AMD instead), I'm pretty sure they would of slammed AMD for making a chip that cannot run without a heatsink.

2. By your sig I can tell that you have a Duron with PC100 memory and a GF3 card. That would mean that you are angry with Toms hardware because they tested the Duron with DDR and rate the 8500 higher than the GF3?

So you automatically assume that since I have an AMD, and since the Duron won (Unfairly) Tom's comparison, that I am angry because I own an AMD? Might want to revise your thought train there man.

For your information I purchased this Elsa Gladiac 920 GF3 just a month after it was released (Radeon 8500 was just a whisper in the wind at the time) and after much NON-BIASED research, I concluded it was worth the price at the time. I badly needed to replace my old ATI Rage Fury.

3. What would the point of testing the Duron with SDRAM be? Who is likely to buy a Duron? Somebody who has an Athlon socket A with SDRAM memory and wish to "down-grade"? Why would anyone buy a Duron and a new mobo with SDRAM? DDR and SDRAM is about the same price.

When testing, when the constant variable is available to both, USE IT! Basic rules of testing ANYTHING. SDRAM was available to the Celly and Duron. He was comparing which was the better VALUE CPU, memory was not to be a factor, but he made it one so the Duron could win. DDR is not considered VALUE (Especially at the time of the review it was about $60 more than it's PC-133 counterpart per stick).

4. Tomshardware also made a giant-test of GF3 cards, and has stated that the Ti200 is the best buy in it´s pricerange. Is this in favor of the Radeon 7500?

regards,
Henry.

No, want to know why? Because IT WASN'T APART OF THE REVIEW. If there is EVER an ATI or AMD product in ANY review, he will favor it. Of course if it is GF3 vs GF3, he may actually benchmark them correctly, but that is only a hope.

~Vash~

[ButcherUK]

I notice you ignored my post completely in your replies. Can I then take it you agree with me that Tom's posted a poorly written and obviously biased review?

[Betty]

*ahem*
Back to the topic at hand...
www.highspeedpc.com is the American partner for innovatek....


Originally posted by hpotter
Has anyone tried the Innovatek water blocks? And does anyone know where to get them? Also what water blocks do you all use. I'm thinking about getting the DangerDen Maze-2.

Thanks

[pHaestus]

It is hard to disagree that that article was unfair to the Swiftech. Who would be dumb enough to set up a watercooling kit without fans on the radiator? And if it were an innocent mistake, why does the reviewer make flaws in the innovatech kit (8mm tubing is tiny and not high performance at all) into a selling point (he says it is to stop bubbles although I don't know how he arrived at that conclusion). The entire review reads like the Innovatech ad that it is.

Having said that, I don't trust Tom's hardware for cooling reviews based on their history of being sloppy. It may partly be because they have multiple people reviewing products, or it may be becuase they are just not very thorough, or it may be that they really are biased. Take a look at the results from their "Can't touch this" heatsink comparison:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q2/010521/cooler-32.html

Notice that the FOP32 handily beats the WBK38. The WBK is a bigger, better, newer heatsink from Globalwin that has a Delta 38. Anyone who has tested them both should know the WBK will outperform the FOP32. Looks like there was some inconsistency between at least the older testing and the new testing in this roundup that leads to the results being of no use.


But we were talking about the Innovatech waterblock, right? The larger one isn't bad at all when you remove those dinky fittings and put some 1/2" barbs on it :)

[Voodoo Rufus]

The Innovatech block looks pretty nice and small, depending on the config. I don't like the tubing sizes though. They seem small to me for a serious cooler. Maybe the connections could be modded to take barbs for 1/2" ID or 3/8" ID hoses.

It's nice that somone finally answered the question, after all this debating has gotten everyone further and further from the topic at hand.

[Sonny]

hpotter - Try to find some reviews of other waterblock asides from the Innovatek block. Relying on one review will not give you a clear view of the performance. Just remember that when you read all the tests/reviews just make sure all the products are on equal footing. Testing a system without a fan on the radiator is just like testing a HS without a fan;)

[Henry Rollins II]

Originally posted by ButcherUK
I notice you ignored my post completely in your replies. Can I then take it you agree with me that Tom's posted a poorly written and obviously biased review?

:mad:
Grr! I do not comment the same question twice, but I´ll make an exception this time: The test were supposed to show the difference in cooling capacity, and it does just that.

regards,
Henry.

[Henry Rollins II]

Originally posted by VashTheStampede

No, want to know why? Because IT WASN'T APART OF THE REVIEW. If there is EVER an ATI or AMD product in ANY review, he will favor it. Of course if it is GF3 vs GF3, he may actually benchmark them correctly, but that is only a hope.

~Vash~

The statement that Ti200 offers the best bang for the bucks didn´t come from that test.

regards,
Henry.

[res0r9lm]

I don't look at how low a certian block will get cpu as absolute determing factor. how about the way it mounts and hose connections and all around quality. Innovatek water blocks hose connections and mounting blows chunks. I like to keep my options open and you cant use a pelt with this block not that I plan on but would be nice to be able to if I wanted

[pHaestus]

Grr! I do not comment the same question twice, but I´ll make an exception this time: The test were supposed to show the difference in cooling capacity, and it does just that.

Maybe if the Innovatech and the Swiftech blocks had both been run sans fans you can make that claim, but as it stands the review showed nothing of any use to me other than that THG isn't capable of reviewing water cooling gear properly.

Imagine if I were writing a review comparing two sports cars (a german one and an American one), and the US car was shipped to me with a full tank and the other one was nearly empty. After a lab or two on the track the German car runs out of gas and is unable to complete the run. My final analysis is "Dodge kills Porshe". See any flaws there? Same scenario with Tom's review...

[Tbird man]

A better car analogy would be say they ship the german car without anitfreeze and it lost beacuse it overheated. Look we have many people that agree THG is a poor reference at best (and a distrubuter/manufacturers hand fed ringer at worst) and one that swallows anything he says and accuses everyone else of being nieve. Where is the arguement? I don't see anyone else agreeing with henry. And look at his rig...hmmmm AMD, ATI...I wouldent be suprised if this wasent Tom himself or one of his 20 staff members.

Post edited by Forum Moderator

We do not allow flaming in our forums. Please refrain from doing so.

Thelemac

[BillA]

there are indeed other tests that suggest, but do not prove, that the Innovatek block (not system) may indeed be a good performer
- but they are not in English, eh

is this thread about a wb or a "review" site ?

(do try to) be cool

Post edited by Forum Moderator

We do not allow flamingin our forums. Please refrain from doing so.

Thelemac

[Thelemac]

I have edited portions of this thread.

There is a line between flaming and debating, and some of you crossed it. Learn where it is, as not only do we not allow flaming, it is VERY counterproductive.

Flaming is never a part of this forum, whether it's deserved or not.

[f155mph]

Isn't Innovatech a German company? Well if it is then there is your answer why Tom rate Innovatech so high. He is German too.

BTW I didn't call anyone name. Mr Henry Rollins II did.

[Thelemac]

Originally posted by f155mph
BTW I didn't call anyone name. Mr Henry Rollins II did.

You replied in kind which is the same thing.

[Henry Rollins II]

Originally posted by Tbird man
. Where is the arguement? I don't see anyone else agreeing with henry. And look at his rig...hmmmm AMD, ATI...I wouldent be suprised if this wasent Tom himself or one of his 20 staff members.


LOL! The conspiracy theory lives on! :D

regards,
Henry.

[Henry Rollins II]

Originally posted by f155mph
Isn't Innovatech a German company? Well if it is then there is your answer why Tom rate Innovatech so high. He is German too.


Germany has about 100 million people....and who knows how many firms.....isn´t this getting somewhat like the Area 51 theory?

regards,
Henry.

[res0r9lm]

Originally posted by f155mph
Isn't Innovatech a German company? Well if it is then there is your answer why Tom rate Innovatech so high. He is German too.

BTW I didn't call anyone name. Mr Henry Rollins II did.
germany make the best in quite a few products but waterblocks aren't one of them

[f155mph]

Yeah like a BMW M5 or M3, how about the 911 Turbo? Too bad I can't afford one yet. :D

[res0r9lm]

Originally posted by f155mph
Yeah like a BMW M5 or M3, how about the 911 Turbo? Too bad I can't afford one yet. :D
I run a small tree sevice. use nothing but sthil chainsaws they are best but expensive in the long run a better deal

[Henry Rollins II]

Originally posted by f155mph
Yeah like a BMW M5 or M3, how about the 911 Turbo? Too bad I can't afford one yet. :D

911? Blaah a beetle with 6-cyl engine

M5 is fun:disable anti-spin and you will get wheel spin at 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear, on _asphalt_!!!! :D

regards,
Henry.