Don't buy into their madness!!!!

[Pinky]

Look. Those Geforce 3 cards are nice. They run UT and Quake and Wolfenstein really well... unfortunately the features that these cards were intended/designed to be using have not even been released a year later in any games (with a couple exceptions, but even those look/play fine without pixel shaders -- I'm referring to games that NEED the new technology).

They want you to buy, they make it so that you feel you need the latest and greatest. YOU DON'T. I frag many of you with GF3 Ti500 cards :D and I have a "lowly" Radeon 64MB DDR :p

[TranceBear]

Spoken like a true gamer!!

[Violator]

I think you should also add in the Radeon 8500 there too then :p. So much was/is made of its superior features over the Ti500 as a selling point (or if you were a fanATic), yet few if any will ever be used :(.

Sad isn't it.

[TranceBear]

Originally posted by Violator
I think you should also add in the Radeon 8500 there too then :p. So much was/is made of its superior features over the Ti500 as a selling point (or if you were a fanATic), yet few if any will ever be used :(.

Sad isn't it.

But I would rather spend $175 to prepare for the future then $300.

[Violator]

Originally posted by TranceBear


But I would rather spend $175 to prepare for the future then $300.

But are you really preparing for the future?. The talk now is of DX9 and the R300. I mean jeez, the 8500 hasn't even been out 6 months yet and still has flawed drivers and now we move onto something else?. A mere handful of games currently take advantage of DX8, nevermind 8.1. And how long has that been out?. What use is a DX9 card gonna be? (I mean seriously, not just faster RAM etc, what features is it going to have that will be used?). By the time games come out that might utilise the features we will be onto the next generation.

It's getting daft IMO.

[Angry]

Are you forgetting Unreal 2? it will be out soon, Plus DronZ is another example...Tribes2 will use some of teh Geforce3/Radeon8500 for certain water effects...and smoke.

[ghengisjam]

I have to have the latest and greatest, it's a sickness....


as for fragging the hell out of the poor unfortunate bastids(naughty naughty word edited here) in Red Faction....

They LOOK better on my 8500 while they're dying....


WOOT!

[o770]

even those already old games, like rtcw :rolleyes:, if i want to play them using high resolutions the good choice will still be that overpriced cards - and ill beat you with your 64ddr.
its not so usual seeing things like the video cards situation happen in the computer market, dont you think. now the software needs to follow up the hardware: thats their madness.
it almost sounds like an exploiting. they have the technology, so we have to need it.
in my opinion however, i love to get the chance to buy that new overpriced cards!

[brennan77]

I just read an article over at anandtech testing the new Unreal II engine on several GPU's. All I can say is if my new R7500 can only run Unreal 2 @ 15 fps when @1024x768 with an Athlon XP 2000, no one will buy this game!

[Sonny]

I just got EA F1 2001 & my G2MX running 230/205 just can't run at 1280X1024X32 with all the eyecandy set at max:( I can't even run the game w/o tearing at 640X480X16 everything set to low:o This to me is a sign that I need a better card to enjoy the game. What to upgrade to is my dilema. GF4Ti1000 would be nice but I guess a GF3Ti500 128Mb, Leadtek should be coming out with this pretty soon, would be enough. I'll probably get one when the price drops after the release of the GF4. Then again what about the Radeons? If they sell it at the local stores & have good support then it would be an option. The latest & the greatest would be nice if I ever have enough money to eat afterwards:beer:

[funnyperson1]

i agree i can play RTCW and Max Payne at 1280x1024x32 with my Geforce2 Pro and this is with a PIII......im sure im still able to play Unreal if i get a CPU Upgrade (which im getting this weekend:))

[ghengisjam]

...sittin pretty with my 8500... he he heeeee

[deathstar13]

you wont see a new video card in my sig for another year.
and in my opinion software is 2 years at least behind hardware.
actually it can stay that way!
gamers are the only one who will have to spend there behind off to stay up with software and most of that is just in the video card section.
ive noticed that almost any computer out there with at least 500 mhz and 128 meg ram will run almost any software around.and good at that.
and unreal || will kick butt in the sales department. and as will video card sales go up and i wouldnt be suprised to see the new cards come out around same time as this game.
and to die hard gamers thy will b smiling while they hand over $450 at the check out becouse they know in 30 minutes they will be smiling so big there ears will touch in the back of thier heads!

same way with overclockers. who really needs 2ghz power? really?
well i do for one! becouse i can buy it. and it makes me happy.thats why i need it.
if we ask for it we will get it from companys. dont blame noone but people like you and me for this, we did it to our selves,so now we must pay,pay,pay!

[Pinky]

I'm pleased some understood what I was saying.

For those that didn't, mostly those who disagreed :p , I was referring to the practicality of spending $150 6 months ago for a card that plays game X at 50fps. Then 6 months later buying a new card for $175-$300 more that plays game X at 75fps.

Would I like 75fps? Hell yes, but first -- do I really need it? In Max Payne and RTWC I can't tell the difference between 40fps and 70fps, mostly a credit to my system (runs closer to 42 at 1024x768 in those games) and the game developers... so is it cost effective to spend money on something that is faster when I still can play 95% of the games released/available with a card I still haven't got my $150 of use from?

I am trying to tell you that buying modern technology before it's needed is playing right into manufacturer's hands. We're a tool for their profits.

[o770]

i think that most of the new hardware is not worth the money, even when the hardware is needed. they will always debut overpriced till a newer one takes the space, and this wont take so long.

[donny_paycheck]

Originally posted by Pinky
I am trying to tell you that buying modern technology before it's needed is playing right into manufacturer's hands. We're a tool for their profits.

I agree. I have a GF3, GF2 Ti and GF2 Pro in the XP systems in my sig. The GF3 cost me $375 6 months ago and games that take advantage of it are only now beginning to show up! Now with the GF4 on the horizon and the Ti GF3s already out, my GF3 is no longer at the top of the nvidia line....I never even got to enjoy games with the best card made for them! Yeah, I got suckered....but I'm gonna be stubborn and hold onto this card for a while just to make myself feel like I'm not getting suckered even more.

[Oni]

Originally posted by Pinky
I am trying to tell you that buying modern technology before it's needed is playing right into manufacturer's hands. We're a tool for their profits.

We are ALWAYS a tool for their profits. Its the tail wagging the dog, really. If you think about it, we can control when this stuff it released, how often it's released and how much we pay for it, merely by keeping our paycheques in our wallets rather than forking over another $300 for the latest, top of the line k-rad 1337 videocard that the industry says WE MUST HAVE RIGHT NOW!!

[Holst]

Originally posted by Pinky
I'm pleased some understood what I was saying.

For those that didn't, mostly those who disagreed :p , I was referring to the practicality of spending $150 6 months ago for a card that plays game X at 50fps. Then 6 months later buying a new card for $175-$300 more that plays game X at 75fps.

Would I like 75fps? Hell yes, but first -- do I really need it? In Max Payne and RTWC I can't tell the difference between 40fps and 70fps, mostly a credit to my system (runs closer to 42 at 1024x768 in those games) and the game developers... so is it cost effective to spend money on something that is faster when I still can play 95% of the games released/available with a card I still haven't got my $150 of use from?

I am trying to tell you that buying modern technology before it's needed is playing right into manufacturer's hands. We're a tool for their profits.

Hi m8.

You have a very valid point. If Id had a geforce2 when the geforce3 was announced I wouldnt have touched it.
But at the time I was running a Matrox G400 that was on its last legs and I had to upgrade to something.
I figured that I was better off paying £280 for a geforce3 that would last two years (maybee longer) than £150 for a geforceGTS/PRo that would only be good for one year, and then I would have to spend at least another £150 getting something else.
As its turned out the timescales have streched a bit but my logic still applies (in my head anyway)

I will only upgrade my PC for three reasons
1-I cant enjoy my software due to inadequate hardware
2-I want something new to play with.
3-I break something and have to replace it.

My Xp-1700 fitted into category number 2, my overclocked duron 800 was fine for games but I got the XP anyway. I got it for a good price and its overclocked very well. Plus its folding@home like a champ, for AOA of course :) Im veyr happy with spending that money.
There was no way at all that I would have bought a XP-2000 for £250 thats just a rip-off.

[ElvishArcher]

U R wrong because the Radeon 8500 has the Truform to make things curved and prettier :D

[Oni]

Originally posted by ElvishArcher
U R wrong because the Radeon 8500 has the Truform to make things curved and prettier :D

Um . . . so?

[Ebola]

hahaha. I just go by the cost. I look for the card with the best image quality at $150 or less. I have a radeon 7500. works great.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by Holst
I will only upgrade my PC for three reasons
1-I cant enjoy my software due to inadequate hardware
2-I want something new to play with.
3-I break something and have to replace it.


Good rules. I fall into those rather handily ;)

#2 is dangerous, many members of this and other hardware sites fall into #2 often and this is really what I was addressing here.

[sb-pimp]

I think its not what is in the comp but how the gamer plays that makes a big difference in Q3 cs ra3 rtcw. As far as radeons are concerned there ugly cards and score good in 3dmark wow. OpenGL owns me and i play mostly games that require this q3 cs rtcw ra3. As far as D3D is concerned mose RPG use this tech and are slower paced games d2 ao etc...

[o770]

well there is one supreme rule: no-one can upgrade without the money.
i wouldnt care at all if i had all the money to always get the top-rated newest stuff.

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by sb-pimp
I think its not what is in the comp but how the gamer plays that makes a big difference in Q3 cs ra3 rtcw. As far as radeons are concerned there ugly cards and score good in 3dmark wow. OpenGL owns me and i play mostly games that require this q3 cs rtcw ra3. As far as D3D is concerned mose RPG use this tech and are slower paced games d2 ao etc...


um ugly cards? the radeons image quality is far superior to Georce2s and a litte superior the Geforce3s.....

[sb-pimp]

as in ugly im talking about the look of there boards not as in image quality and if your talking about radeons imaging theres really no need there almost identical if you want image quality FSAA you can always turn on.

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by sb-pimp
as in ugly im talking about the look of there boards not as in image quality and if your talking about radeons imaging theres really no need there almost identical if you want image quality FSAA you can always turn on.

yes but you could turn on FSAA on the Radeon and it would still look better.....and i dunno....i just never put too much stock appearance....its all going to be covered by my case anywayz....and Gigabyte is making some fine looking Radeons.....

[sb-pimp]

yeah im still working on making my stuff look good just got a job so that i can get rid of this pos tower that i hate and get the new mid koolance and pimp it out.

[Avalanche]

live the present, not the future.

[sb-pimp]

good quote.com

[rogue1979]

When my current video card gets a hint of slowing down in the games I play at the resoultions I like, then it is time to upgrade.
If people are getting what they want out of a Voodoo 3, I say more power to them. I am tempted to move up to a Geforce 3, but when I crank my games on at 1024 x 768 x 32 with FSAA on and they run smoothly and look great, I remind myself not to fall into the upgrade trap.

I have noticed that the highly talked about DirectX 8 features showboated by Geforce 3 and Radeon 8500 haven't done jack for my gaming preferences.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by rogue1979
...I remind myself not to fall into the upgrade trap.

I have noticed that the highly talked about DirectX 8 features showboated by Geforce 3 and Radeon 8500 haven't done jack for my gaming preferences.

Can I get an Amen from the congregation!! :beer:

[Arkaine23]

Why fork over more hard-earned cash? My card is new and it runs everything like a smokin' demon. I'm tempted to get a better card, but only because I'm addicted to playing the who's-got-the-best-3dmark-score game. Maybe when the GF4's come out, I'll get a GF3 Ti200 and sell this GF2 Ti to my roomate. By then games might start using a few of the features of the GF3's. And I'll only be out 50-70 dollars. I'd rather spend my upgrade funds on a thoroughbred, a DDR 333a motherboard, and some Kingmax PC2700 DDR.

[1Time]

The faster the newer cards sell off the shelves, the sooner they'll make newer cards and the sooner the prices will go down for the older cards and the sooner I'll get a better card for less $. :)

[Pinky]

Originally posted by Arkaine23
I'm tempted to get a better card, but only because I'm addicted to playing the who's-got-the-best-3dmark-score game.

That's the problem, there will always be a higher score than yours... if you're never satisfied with your own score you'll never "win".

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by 1Time
The faster the newer cards sell off the shelves, the sooner they'll make newer cards and the sooner the prices will go down for the older cards and the sooner I'll get a better card for less $. :)


True True True LOL I have to say that I have fallen into the trap of upgrading only cause I sold my previous cards for very good prices allowing me to upgrade at the cost of hardly nothing.

I must say that all the cards I owned would still play most games at a very playable level except maybe the Rage Fury Pro card I had.

Here were my upgrades

TNT 16 meg card
Rage Fury Pro VIVO 32 meg
Asus Geforce 256 DDR Deluxe
Radeon 64 VIVO
Radeon 7500 ... next possibly a G3 Ti200 if I can line one up cheap and sell my card cheap

I must say that the 64 VIVO was a terriffic card, the 7500 is faster but I do not know if it is really needed but it is nice to have, I liken it to the horsepower I had in my Katana 1100 streetbike, since I sold it and bought my heavily modded GSXR 750 I still miss the massive horsepower and torque my 1100 had!!! Said like a true motorhead,hehehehehe ..



cisco kid:eek:

[Pinky]

Originally posted by Cisco Kid

Here were my upgrades

... I must say that the 64 VIVO was a terriffic card, the 7500 is faster but I do not know if it is really needed but it is nice to have...

I agree, for the dollar it is nice and still very current / plays all games well.

My upgrade path has been:

cheap 2MB PCI card
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
Geforce 256 sdr (leadtek)
Geforce 2 MX DH Pro (Leadtek)
Geforce 2 Ultra (Hercules :D )
Geforce 3 (Visiontek)
Radeon 64MB DDR VIVO

You might say I stepped backwards, but at the time I was able to get $270 for the GF3 card when I paid $340, if I continued waiting it would have lost more and more resale value, so I cut my loses and bought something to hold me over until I could justify the next upgrade. That was 6+ months ago, and I still have the Radeon ;) and there are still no compelling games forcing me to upgrade.

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by Pinky


I agree, for the dollar it is nice and still very current / plays all games well.

My upgrade path has been:

cheap 2MB PCI card
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
Geforce 256 sdr (leadtek)
Geforce 2 MX DH Pro (Leadtek)
Geforce 2 Ultra (Hercules :D )
Geforce 3 (Visiontek)
Radeon 64MB DDR VIVO

You might say I stepped backwards, but at the time I was able to get $270 for the GF3 card when I paid $340, if I continued waiting it would have lost more and more resale value, so I cut my loses and bought something to hold me over until I could justify the next upgrade. That was 6+ months ago, and I still have the Radeon ;) and there are still no compelling games forcing me to upgrade.


I was offered the Hercules Ultra II card used by a friend, but he wants more than I paid for my new 7500. How did you like that card Pinky, was it noticeably better than your 64 VIVO , cause I can not see sense in paying more for it than my 7500 was (canadian dollars)

Cisco Kid:cool:

[Pinky]

Originally posted by Cisco Kid

How did you like that card Pinky, was it noticeably better than your 64 VIVO , cause I can not see sense in paying more for it than my 7500 was (canadian dollars)

I got similar/close 3dMark2001 scores with both, don't think it would be worth it.

[oc jason]

Originally posted by brennan77
I just read an article over at anandtech testing the new Unreal II engine on several GPU's. All I can say is if my new R7500 can only run Unreal 2 @ 15 fps when @1024x768 with an Athlon XP 2000, no one will buy this game!


LOL that is such horses**t, you really believe that, there systems suck my buttcrack. There IS NO WAY. here are resons why

1. NOONE either mobo or games has taken full advantage of AGP 4x or 4xPro, that is why there is MINIMAL drop when going to 2x on normal system. (normal not friggin 1800mhz and gig o ram like we got)

2. NOONE nvidia or Radeon have even written drivers close to getting everything out of these cards. That is the reason they release drivers like EVERY 4 DAYS LATELY. The cards were capable of current preformance when they first came otu but did they use it....NO they want u to think a new drivers is FINALLY maxing out your card. ITs not that is why we KEEP getin driver updates...they are only fedding us a litte at a time of what irt can really do.

3. 99% of the Games dont even POSE a THREAT to the currect cards, not even a GF2 Pro. They dont even phase them. On my GF2 pro in UT i get over 150 fps average (up to 190 down to 120) at 1024 res. And ur telling me by rewriting the engine ill drop from 150 fps to 15...I THINK NOT....No way to inprove a game that much in one release. Q3 is liek 85 FPS average, CS is over 100. So ur tellign me that if my card does that good, that a GF3 that is 25% or more faster then my card will still not do good in that game ....BS BS BS

4. They dont even utilize all the DX8 adn DX8.1 have to offer. Also what does it really matter. The NORMAL human eye can only see average of 26 FPS, extraordinary vision can see 30 FPS at best. Movies are recored at 24FPS, and do u have problems watching then?...NO

So as long as you card gets 30fps..in reality you will NEVER have anything to worry about!!-this list goes on

im out-

[Pinky]

Originally posted by oc jason



LOL that is such horses**t, you really believe that, there systems suck my buttcrack. There IS NO WAY.

They said clearly that they tried several times but suspected the drivers were the cause, common PC sense dictates that the 7500 would be smoking at that resolution (in other words, it was a benchmarking fluke and not meant to count against the card)...

Visit anandtech and see for yourself dude, it wasn't all about the 7500 :p The rest of the article was very accurate.

[funnyperson1]

note, this was just the benchmarking engine....when the actual game comes out it will probably be much more playable......for example i get 29fps in Lobby High Detail, while playing Max Payne which uses the same engine i get 50-60fps at 1024x768x32 High Detail...

[BigRed]

heh heres my video upgrade history

2mb PCI video
Monster3d 1 (with the 2mb)
Voodoo2 (with the 2mb)
4mb S3 Virge PCI (still have it) with V2
2 x Voodoo2 in SLI with the s3.
Tnt2 Ultra
Gf2 MX 32mb
Radeon 32mb ddr
Radeon 8500

i wouldnt have gotten the 8500 except it was so cheap and i didnt pay a dime for it :) xmas rules. hehe.
im glad i got it though, i was drooling for about 3 hours when i first fired up rtcw with it.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by BigRed
heh heres my video upgrade history

2mb PCI video
Monster3d 1 (with the 2mb)
Voodoo2 (with the 2mb)
4mb S3 Virge PCI (still have it) with V2
2 x Voodoo2 in SLI with the s3.
Tnt2 Ultra
Gf2 MX 32mb
Radeon 32mb ddr
Radeon 8500

That's a big leap from A->Z

Sure hope you thanked the friend/relative for the expensive gift :p

[rogue1979]

My video card upgrade path went like this:

4MB Trident PCI
Diamond Monster Fusion AGP
Voodoo 3 2000 AGP
Diamond Viper 770 Ultra
generic Geforce 2 GTS 32MB AGP
Radeon LE AGP
Radeon 64MB VIVO
Voodoo 5 5500 AGP
Inno3d Geforce 2 Pro 64MB
Gainward Geforce 2 Pro 450
Gainward Geforce 2 Ti 500

My wife and kids have had a SiS 8MB AGP, Savage S4 16MB, Diamond Monster Fusion, Ati 8MB Fire GL, Voodoo 3 2000 AGP, Ati Xpert 2000 32MB AGP, Inno3d Geforce 2 GTS 32MB
Voodoo 4 4500 AGP, Voodoo 5 5500 AGP, and PNY Geforce 2 MX-200 32MB.

[BigRed]

Originally posted by Pinky


That's a big leap from A->Z

Sure hope you thanked the friend/relative for the expensive gift :p
my dad gets permission to use my computer cuz he bought me the 8500 :p
i dont just let anyone use my computer, lol

[lonewolf1983]

ive had my geforce2mx for almost a year now
played every game ive got perfectly
80fp's in Q3,unreal plays good
RTCW not a problem

i dont see the problem honestly
no game developer is going to write a game that can only be played with the latest geforce3 or raedon 8500
because they cut off a huge sector of the market that cant afford such games

you want to blow your money,fine
ill be happy with my "budget" card
:)

[Pinky]

Originally posted by rogue1979
My video card upgrade path went like this:


That's kinda like a yo-yo, going from hardware T+L to a voodoo 5500, then back to HW T&L :p

Kinda like driving a mercedes, selling, buying a Maverick, then selling and buying a BMW! :D

[ThePunkGeek]

as long as your video card can do over 60 fps with some decent color what more do you need?
my Geoforce 2 MX gets max fames (100) in CS and the cards worth like $70 bux. (it has a blue orb and is overclocked but that dont matter)

[Pinky]

Just when you thought it was dead, Pinky comes along and BUMPS! it...

[Arkaine23]

Ati onboard dinosaur (on K6-2 333 Mhz system)
Ati Rage 4Mb (onboard laptop)
Leadtek Geforce2 Ti 64MB (heavily modified)

As you can see, my current card is also my first real AGP card. It rocks!!

[Pinky]

Bump

[Tracert]

Well, I am glad I don't play much 3D. I don't know how you guys can afford all this stuff!

I bought a Radeon VE after realizing that the only thing I need (being a RPG type myself) was Direct 3D and some pretty 2D. The VE was in my price range ($47.00 + $7.00 SH USD) and does better then the MX card in D3D so no brainer. The few 3D games I do play here and there I must be getting better then 30 fps because I can't tell a difference between mine and my friends 7500, cept for the price that is.

I spect that in a few months as price goes down I will be looking at the AIW's and see what is available for ~$100 range. Actually the XP's are looking rather tasty and my OC'd Duron (800/896 stupid dog wont run stable higher then that) is begging to be retired, why.... um because... option #2. What can I say, I have the weekness too. Why else would we be reading this stuff?

[Pinky]

Originally posted by Tracert
What can I say, I have the weekness too. Why else would we be reading this stuff?

But you can be strong brother!!

:D

[rogue1979]

The Voodoo 5 5500 rocks, it was one of my favorite video cards.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by rogue1979
The Voodoo 5 5500 rocks, it was one of my favorite video cards.

Sure, UT will run great, but try playing Everquest or Max payne or Wolfenstein ;)

[CrystalMethod]

Originally posted by ThePunkGeek
as long as your video card can do over 60 fps with some decent color what more do you need?
my Geoforce 2 MX gets max fames (100) in CS and the cards worth like $70 bux. (it has a blue orb and is overclocked but that dont matter)

60 FPS? Some of ya'll got high standards. I only upgraded to an MX-400 because my Voodoo3 2000 wouldn't do more than 12 FPS on some maps in CS.

Vid history, I'll skip the cards that are older than the one in my third system. i.e.: the ones that didn't require a seperate 3D rendering card, like the Orchid card I have kicking somewhere around here. Anyone else remember these things?

-Diamond Viper 330 PCI (Riva 128 GPU, 4meg)
-Creative Voodoo Banshee (I really loved that card *sniffle*)
-Creative Voodoo3 2000 (traded the Banshee for it)
-Aopen GeForce2 MX-400 (latest card)

[vodka314]

I have a voodoo 3 3000 oced to 180 mem and gpu, and I can run rtcw at about 50 fps at 800x600 resolution with most settings on high. I mean, only now am I considering an upgrade because of the newest games comming out, you dont need the latest and greatest....

[C0nDuCt EviL]

Sure, UT will run great, but try playing Everquest or Max payne or Wolfenstein
I had no problem playing Everquest or Max Payne with my Voodoo 5500.
When my 5500 was working right....lol...power hungery Mofo.

[davkirk]

The reason why people upgrade?

To impress ppl? To make games look even better? to get a higher 3dmark score? JUST FOR THE HELL OF IT??????

I know, because people are kind and generous and like to do their bit to help the world economy ;)

[Goodie]

Well Pinky makes a good point but, I just bought a GeForce2 Mx 400 thinking the same thing as him. `Im not going to buy the latest hyped card because this will do just fine`. Was I wrong. I can`t play RTCW as fast as I could with my 3 year old TNT2 M64. I get the same FPS rate with this geforce card as I did with the TNT2, and my tnt2 overclocked better and easier than this. I had to put a fan on it just to get cooling and my TNT2 came with a fan. Im thinking about taking this card back to the store and getting a better and more expensive one.Yes I know I`ll be falling into the bigger, better, faster, trap the card makers have, but I want to play my games and play them with more performance. I know this card is not a top end vid card but it should out perform a TNT2. I might not even go back to a GeForce card. I might buy an ATI product. Im tired of the D3d cards that can`t run my games that well. I want a card that can do open Gl well and GeForce seems to suck at it, or at least thats what I have always seen with everyone I have seen. I don`t like the way these companys come out with new stuff only a year after releasing what they called their best product. One thing I have noticed is that you dont see Nintendo or sony releasing a new console every year. They seem to wait a bit and get the support from gaming companys and the support from their fans. I don`t understand why the video card business can;t do the same thing. They should try to make some games that these new cards can play and show off their potential. What I see happening is that people will get angry and stop buying these new better cards because they have a drawer or cupboard filled with old cards that they can;t use. I know I don`t like throwing away money all that much, and it seems like the companys just don`t care about us at all. Anyway, I have rambled long enough. Bottom line is that as long as we all keep paying the price they want and if we buy in the numbers we buy in they will supply us with the latest and greatest video card.

Thank you and thats my 2¢ worth. :D

[o770]

Originally posted by Goodie


i like the frequent releases. there is something good about it too: how much would cost a geforce2 pro today if geforces3 hadnt been released yet? the pro is still the same, actually they keep getting a few better with faster rams for example, and not quite different on prices.
you said ppl get angry and stop buying the new products. ive not seen that, really. here in the forums the ti500s showed up so fast, i couldnt beleive.
but about that mx-400 you got, something must be wrong about that. you shouldnt get the same performance of a tnt2 ultra. unless the ultra was extremely overclocked, even so you should get an overall difference, when running intensive directx7 applications for ex.

[rogue1979]

The best nVidia budget card right now is the Geforce GTS-V at newegg for $49. It is much faster than a Geforce MX-400, although the MX should easily beat the TNT Ultra.

[adamtekh]

u think to highly of res

in UT 2 the textures r whats important

the default res will be 512x512

im sure my overclocked like mad tnt2 wont cut it

of course i can over clock it more with some insane cooling

it still wouldnt work to well


soon a ti 200 will be around 150 $ and more in my price range

i will most likely buy that and over clock it :beer:


it will keep me gameing for a while

[Pinky]

I like helping the economy, by keeping my job, paying my bills and taxes, not buying overpriced video cards :D

[Tracert]

Hey Pinky,

Nice OC job on your Duron system, that with FSB only?

Edit -- I just noticed your only about 1.5 hrs from me.

[Voodoo Rufus]

I bought my Kyro II because of the performance/$$$. It runs with the GeForce 2 Pro and Ultra sometimes, and it's dirt cheap.

I think one should always got with the speed/$ ratio, and what features your willing to pay for or wait for.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by Tracert
Hey Pinky,

Nice OC job on your Duron system, that with FSB only?

Edit -- I just noticed your only about 1.5 hrs from me.

Yup, bus speed only (multipliers wouldn't unlock right, got her to boot at 1093 a few times but doesn't keep settings on reboot and now won't boot at all with 133 bus if the multiplier's not default (7x)).

Oh, and BUMP!@!@

[SteenkyBastage]

Originally posted by oc jason


Also what does it really matter. The NORMAL human eye can only see average of 26 FPS, extraordinary vision can see 30 FPS at best. Movies are recored at 24FPS, and do u have problems watching then?...NO

So as long as you card gets 30fps..in reality you will NEVER have anything to worry about!!-this list goes on

im out-

sorry to inform you...

you're way off.

film is 24fps, but it's film. it captures 1/24 of a second's worth of motion in one picture. this gives us motion blur...pause a dvd of a fast-action scene and you'll notice the object in motion is blurred. this compensates for only having 24fps.

film compensates for an object moving from point A to point B by blurring. computer graphics simply show you one frame being at point A and the next frame being at point B. if points A and B happen to be 1/5 of the way across the screen... tell me your eye wont notice and i'll tell you to go get glasses.

computer 3d games are solid rendered geometry files. when something moves fast across your screen (unless your video card provides motion blur...which it doesn't) you see each frame as a solid object, not blurred. most anyone's eye can EASILY pick up jumping in this case.

i can physically see jumping at 50fps in CS. try running any FPS game at 24 fps and tell me it looks smooth to you. if you want proof, i can render out two fast movement animation files: one with motion blur, and one without at 30fps and let you see the difference.

now... having said that...

i agree with the general idea behind this thread.

only other dispute... pinky :)

my v5 5500 un-oc'ed runs wolfenstein quite well... haven't tried the other two. to date, my v5 5500 has held up and given great results w/ everything i've thrown at it (it's about 2 years old now) without having to overclock/upgrade/mod it. and i love the picture quality. but soon... i must sadly pass it on in order to get a true ogl card, as the v5 doesn't support ogl correctly in 3ds4.

[deathstar13]

lol i just had a funny idea.
in about 2 weeks it starts!
everyone buying a gf4 who gave up a gf2or a gf3 for this card will be grossly disappointed. and will be here in forums ripping nvidia,and their gf4,just a opinion but i stand by it ;)

ill tell ya why. i have a gf3ti500 i like it its nice.
wasnt my case when i got it. after a month or so fiddling with it. several thousand drivers later i have "ok" scores in 3dmark.

the drivers nvidia has arent good enough yet to make a gf4 practical. just last week the 27.20 came out. the best so far ive seen on a gf3. but still substandard.

what do you think a gf4 will do on these drivers? about 10% over my gf3 is my prediction. and from some not so real looking scores ive seen on madonion say the same. until the drivers get better gf3 AND gf4 havent seen their potential.

all i will be able to say in forums about all the gf4 gripes is "i cant answer that couse i dont own a gf4"
mabey in time i will. once i get the full use out of current card.

would anyone upgrade their cpu if they havent gotten it to its max and seen what it could actually do? i wouldnt!
same way with my video card. if someone needs a upgrade anyhow get the gf4 by all means. its nice and faster. but consider price as the gf3 will be cheaper and still not able to reach its full potential.

pinky i love this thread! lol im haven a ball.
i just think nvidia is possably making a mistake here.
they have the balls ,just cant find the right court to play in!
hehee ok i gotta stop!

[CrystalMethod]

I agree with SteenkyBastage, about films having the motion blur effect. But, with computer games, your brain will "fill in" the blank spot between the frames with what you're expecting to see. For some people they won't even notice that they've dropped 20 FPS. I personally can see somewhere to the point of 42-48 FPS, in a game, but can play with a frame rate as low as 10-12 FPS. the only rason I upgraded from my Voodoo3 2000 in september, to the MX400 I have now, is that my FPS in a couple of maps in CS had dropped below 10 FPS. Bottom line is that, some people will buy into the new, latest and greatest, some people depend on framerate to play (my brother is a prime example), some people know what framerate they can see, and how much performance they actually need to play "X" game. Everyone buys what they buy for a different reason. I just prefer function over fashion.

[Voodoo Rufus]

I like your rant, deathstar. I agree completely. I don't upgrade my parts very often (on the order of years). I run my parts until they are screaming for mercy because of Windows 200*. I still run a Pentium 200 as a backup machine on Win2K and it can barely handle it. I run my graphics cards until I get 24 fps in the games I want to play, at 800x600. It just doesn't make sense to upgrade if things still have use in them.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by deathstar13
...the drivers nvidia has arent good enough yet to make a gf4 practical. just last week the 27.20 came out. the best so far ive seen on a gf3. but still substandard.

what do you think a gf4 will do on these drivers? about 10% over my gf3 is my prediction. and from some not so real looking scores ive seen on madonion say the same. until the drivers get better gf3 AND gf4 havent seen their potential...

Remeber when the first 20.00 drivers were released?? They bumped some scores through the roof, like by 20%!!! I know these companies hold back their developed drivers as advertising, promotional, and PR ammunition.

[Dagon]

amen pinky...although I think we all are a bit guilty of doing the same thing when it comes to processors/mobo's....

I'm happy with my 7500's performance, although I'm not impressed with ATI's OEM tricks.

The only thing that would make me shell out big $$ for a new gfx card is if doom3 lives up to the hype, and it won't play well on my current system.

[Tracert]

Thats my only gripe too Dagon, I download new drivers only to find that they are "incompatible" with my OEM card. Its like a gamble every time I find a driver for ATI cards. Will it work with my OEM or not.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by Dagon
amen pinky...although I think we all are a bit guilty of doing the same thing when it comes to processors/mobo's....


Processor power actually saves me time when rendering music/processing files/samples/sounds, etc, which is the only reason I have a fast PC... otherwise I could surf the net with a P200 :p

[deathstar13]

i havent paid too much attention to who all does read and post messages or answers in forums. ok saying that.

i think ed has been reading everything we been saying in the post! hehee its great to heard.this is on the front page of overclockers.com
This is not at all to say it's wrong to want to buy something, what I'm pointing out is that there's a lot of people putting a lot of pressure out there for you to buy things for entirely the wrong reasons.

:D :D :D in actuallity i know all the guys stay connected back here. just he so hit onto my veiws it was like me saying it.saying it to nvidia.

and one other thing about all this madness. have you noticed all the repackaging of gf2 products? now we have gf4mx400 and so on. this isnt right in my opinion. i can see swarms of gf2 guys selling there cards and getting a gf4mx couse its a great upgrade and itss cheap!. in actuallity they just sold there card for pennys on the dollar. and bought there own card back at a higher price!

whos getten it now?

[Voodoo Rufus]

That stupid renaming of the Geforce 4 MX chips is wrong. It exploits "uninformed" people who don't know much about their computers, unlike us. The Geforce 4MX is basically a castrated Geforce3, just with a nice clock speed. Why don't they just call it a Geforce 3 MX and be done with it? MARKETING!

[FerrariF50]

All the video cards I used to have...


Ati Rage pro (Onboard)
Creative Labs Savage4 Pci
Ati Radeon 32MB Sddr Pci...

Next Card Unknown..


Btw I think Nidvida keeps bringing out new cards too fast...They might wind up like 3dFX if they don't watch out...You can't keep bringing out a new $300+ card and only get like a 5% increase... People then would go for Ati..

[Voodoo Rufus]

A card every year would make more sense. No one wants to blow $400 every 6 months for a card. That's a lot of money over a few years.

[deathstar13]

well i just went from ati to my current gf3
ati makes good stuff. but driver support is bad.
nvidia makes good stuff but has no clue how to market it!and the drivers are ok, but still lagging far behind.

but mho is if this continues im not sure who ill buy from next time.i know ill be upgrading my video in a year. just a fact i dont like old stuff. most likley a tricked out ati. just for the fact of there marketing. you can buy one 8500 and thats it. there isnt really 5 or 10 versions of that chipset running around.just differant vender versions and i like that!

at the moment nvidia has me somewhat confused. i have to think so many numbers,mx,mx400,gts,ti,gf3,gf4.then they wanna start mixing those!. whats repacked under a differant name now. its rediculous!

and come to think of it i dont want a nvidia card next time. they have really turned me off.
mabey ill get lucky and via,or amd will get into the gpu business!


"edit" ive taken all my gripes to that forums section so as to keep this open to information

[Tracert]

Voodoo Rufus --That stupid renaming of the Geforce 4 MX chips is wrong. It exploits "uninformed" people who don't know much about their computers, unlike us. The Geforce 4MX is basically a castrated Geforce3, just with a nice clock speed. Why don't they just call it a Geforce 3 MX and be done with it? MARKETING!

I was under the impression that the 4MX was actually a higher clocked GF2. No DX 8 etc. Same as 2 cept faster clock cycles.

I will have to dig this up again.

[Voodoo Rufus]

It's in between a GF2 and GF3. It has some DX8 features, but not all, and still based on the GF2 core. Shrunk, sped up a little, and marketed as a GF4. In conclusion, slower than the "true" GF4s, but is promoted for cheap people who don't know what they're buying.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by Voodoo Rufus
It's in between a GF2 and GF3. It has some DX8 features, but not all, and still based on the GF2 core. Shrunk, sped up a little, and marketed as a GF4. In conclusion, slower than the "true" GF4s, but is promoted for cheap people who don't know what they're buying.

I liked ed's article enough to drop him an email :)

That's exactly right, but it's essentially the "Be a consumer or be consumed" attitude I was addressing in the first place. Nvidia just proves any point(s) being made here with every unnnecessary release.

[deathstar13]

ya know im done bashing nvidia.

but i do still like to make comparisons.
at one time, and i still do like cars.and in my time if you had a engine that made soooo much horsepower and torque you had to figure out how to make it usable and get that power to the ground. the ground here = your eyes!

if you cant use it its just a show boat as i remember. it sat in the pits or did a few wheelies for the crowd. and the guy who bought and paid for it dearly and was very happy.the crowd loves a good show too.but the happiest guys were the ones on the track. beating there ponies with whips! and ill tell ya . those guys were able to some amazing things. they got all the rewards also if i remember correctly.

as in racing , real world use has its place. if its not usable then its just sitting there as a show pleaser at special events.sure you can drag race a rocket powered car on a track. but its use is overkill. i love rocket cars. shoot soon they will start having f-16's drag racing at this strip also. thats all good and well,they make faster times. look kool as heck. but look at what is being paid to get to this!? and at whos cost? the guys with camaros, did the same e.t. for $50,000 as the $7.6 million f-16 .

wooooooo next year i hope they have space shuttle races! id love to watch. i wonder if a space shuttle can beat a stock car in the indy 500? im sure it could , but at what cost? will it ruin the sport? will this couse the nascar guys to build faster cars to keep up? NO! its still a real world and power dont mean crap unless u can get it to your eyes ,eerrmm i mean ground,remember?

50 fps=eye candy=150 fps its all the same!
hahaa this was fun! but least i didnt bash nvidia again :D

[deathstar13]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,44954,00.html

just a little extra if you dont get my point!

[Pinky]

interesting... uh... perspective :D

[Voodoo Rufus]

I see you went off on a rampage, even though you didn't name names. We know what you're implying :D :D .

My roommate would rather buy the newest fasted Geforce because he knows it'll run current things faster, and support future games that he won't see for another year or two. I tell him that his card will be slow by the time they come out, but he doesn't care. He'd rather pay now, and pay again later.

I'm content jsut buying something that has the best fps and features /$, rather than buy something really expensive.

[deathstar13]

well his card wont be slow. it just plain may not be usuable.think of this. a ati7000 or a gf2 pro will run any game on the market great. now id say those two cards have about 1 year left of life due to them becouse at that time software will need a little more speed.
so we get most use of our gf3 next year. they will be upto software standards for say 2 years. meaning no games will be able to not be usuable with a gf3 . i think thats a safe call.

thats 2 years in the future already. then u aplly the gf4 into this. . u can only use 40% of a gf4ti4400 at the moment. what if software goes a differant way? whos getten hit then? us! we have to by the gf7 that will support the software then. so the cycle starts again.
i just dont wanna look back and say wooooo what a waste of money that was. future proofing is what that is to me. its like saying i know amd will still be making socket A chips in a year.who knows what they will use ,what they need may be something differant .

[Pinky]

Originally posted by Voodoo Rufus
My roommate would rather buy the newest fasted Geforce because he knows it'll run current things faster, and support future games that he won't see for another year or two. I tell him that his card will be slow by the time they come out, but he doesn't care. He'd rather pay now, and pay again later.

Part of this is education, next time someone goes to drop too much on a video card they might think twice, and if I can help steer just one member in the right direction, I feel that my work here would have been done... :)

[Voodoo Rufus]

My roommate is a *little* egotistical when it comes to HIS computer, claiming that it should be worshipped by all who see it, and claims that my machine in my sig is a total piece of junk, never mind that it's H2O cooled. It would be a good challenge for you I think, Pinky.

[iggybaseball]

i love my radeon 8500 and some breaking new grap ur ***** technology will have to come out before i upgrade. every thing in rtcw and maxpayne are maxed out with much to spare.

[deathstar13]

well i for one have seen the error of my ways. i want so badly just to trade my gf3ti500 for a nice kt266a-raid mobo and decent video card. just to be dumb about it. wouldnt solve anything since id only consider a gf3ti200 as low as id go. so i dont hate nvidia, see? :cool:

just aint they happiest with my mobo either.thats a differant rant!
lol jk its ok :rolleyes:

hey rufus your roomate have a 4 cpu server with rack mounts and vapochill cooling it? dude id say what ya have there is a top-o-line stuff! unless he has what i mentioned his may be only better in a benchmark by 200 points in so. think anyone could tell that? actaully same thing we talking about here. with video cards. its nice, but is 100 mhz really faster? epespecially when ya pulling 1587? a 100 mhz is small in that pic!

not that i have anything against him at all. by all means he should buy a gf4 it sounds like hes only gonna have the best. and its america so i say go for it dude!

[Voodoo Rufus]

My roomies system specs are:

Abit KG7-RAID
Amd Athlon 1400
2x256 crucial pc2100
two 40GB WD400BB in RAID 0
one 60GB WD600BB media storage
Asus Geforce3
Creative Audigy X-Gamer
Aiwa pseudo surround (expanded stereo)
Pioneer DVD, Creative 12x CD-RW
Delta screamer on a WBK38 (?)
Way too many fans for my poor ears. His is vacuum cleaner loud.

He claims his in-socket thermistor is more accurate than my waterblock thermistor and his all aluminum heatsink is running his machine cooler than my water cooled machine. Crackhead.

His is superior in some ways, but he wouldn;t know how to optimize his ram settings to save his life. He says his is more stable because he runs his poor ram at max timings (slowest).

Poor computer.

[deathstar13]

i cant say ive ever read a aluminum heatsink can out preform a waterblock. anyhow best not to argue over it. plus if hes getten cooler temps in his socket, those things can be very misleading also. if i remember corrctly the new xp's have a thermal diod in the core. thats the best way. but he could check under his cpu to make sure it gets enough presure under it against the cpu's bottom.its very inaccurate at times

[Voodoo Rufus]

There's no sense in arguing with him. All that matters is what he thinks, and that is that my machine is not worthy. I showed him a few articles about in socket thermistor readings and he ignored them, saying that my cooling sucks. Oh well. I know what the truth is.

We both have regulard Athlon 1400s, not the XP models.

[Tracert]

All I know is I paid like $350.00 for everything in my sig (had to do some tradeing, wheeling and dealing for that price tho) and my system pulls 6840 in 2001 and is so fast I can boot it up do my work and have it off before people even notice I moved.

Bam... just ripped a DVD to VCD in .0002 seconds. I bet you didn't even see me move.

;)

[Pinky]

I dedicate this thread to all those prepared to spend real $$$ on the geforce4 card :p

[Silversinksam]

I'll drink to that Pinky :beer:

[Pinky]

Bump for Boredom!

[Placid]

Why do you care what other people do with their money?
I know people who spend more than the cost of GF4 on drugs in a month.
I don't go to where they hang out and tell them what a waste of money it is and they shouldn't waste there money like that because I don't really care.

[Voodoo Rufus]

Yeah, you guys aren't buying the card (yet), so you shouldn't care.

[SteenkyBastage]

i think most of us who agreed with this thread weren't trying to force our opinions on people. simply to give our point of view and hopefully help a few people out who read our insight/experiences. we dont really care one way or another (at least i dont) what you/they do. however, just because i dont care what someone does, doesn't mean i wont try to voice up and help out when i can. it's up to the people reading to decide if they agree or disagree... i dont care either way.

that having been said...

i'd also like to THANK all the people who spend outrageous ammounts of money on brand spanking new items every 2 months. they pay for most of the R&D costs, and eventually cause the prices to drop for those of us who aren't as fanatical about it. plus, there will always be newer and better things being released by hardware/software companies due to people who fuel them with their $ consistantly.

[Ice_Gargoylle]

hehe, nice;)

[Voodoo Rufus]

Interesting perspective. I like it.

[Placid]

Originally posted by SteenkyBastage
i think most of us who agreed with this thread weren't trying to force our opinions on people. simply to give our point of view and hopefully help a few people out who read our insight/experiences. we dont really care one way or another (at least i dont) what you/they do. however, just because i dont care what someone does, doesn't mean i wont try to voice up and help out when i can. it's up to the people reading to decide if they agree or disagree... i dont care either way.

that having been said...

i'd also like to THANK all the people who spend outrageous ammounts of money on brand spanking new items every 2 months. they pay for most of the R&D costs, and eventually cause the prices to drop for those of us who aren't as fanatical about it. plus, there will always be newer and better things being released by hardware/software companies due to people who fuel them with their $ consistantly.

If someone asks for an opinion then yes give it.
I must have missed the post where someone asked for a opinion/point of view in this thread.

[SteenkyBastage]

Originally posted by Placid


If someone asks for an opinion then yes give it.
I must have missed the post where someone asked for a opinion/point of view in this thread.

am i correct in re-phrasing what you just said?

dont post unless a question is asked?

so joe newbie comes on here talking about how his computer sucks because it has such-and-such problem, but doesn't specifically ask for an answer, we should just keep quiet and let him suffer untill he asks (which he probably doesn't what question to ask in the first place)?

are opinions only valid when someone asks for them? really, if you dont want to read someone's opinion: nobody is twisting your arm. just dont read it.

there can be no discussion if people would only answer questions. that would be q&a forums. i personally wouldn't care to have a "knowledge base" type forum where only facts were presented, but nobody's experiences (because nobody asked).

also, your opinion of people not giving their opinions unless asked violated your own rule. you should have waited for us to ask if anyone thought we wanted to hear that particular opinion :D

[Placid]

Originally posted by SteenkyBastage


am i correct in re-phrasing what you just said?

dont post unless a question is asked?

so joe newbie comes on here talking about how his computer sucks because it has such-and-such problem, but doesn't specifically ask for an answer, we should just keep quiet and let him suffer untill he asks (which he probably doesn't what question to ask in the first place)?

are opinions only valid when someone asks for them? really, if you dont want to read someone's opinion: nobody is twisting your arm. just dont read it.

there can be no discussion if people would only answer questions. that would be q&a forums. i personally wouldn't care to have a "knowledge base" type forum where only facts were presented, but nobody's experiences (because nobody asked).

also, your opinion of people not giving their opinions unless asked violated your own rule. you should have waited for us to ask if anyone thought we wanted to hear that particular opinion :D

Its obvious you will argue your point to the end.
I consider giving ones opinion when not asked preaching.

Yes I read this thread when there was only one post but found some of the last posts before I responded as just plain pointless and demeaning.
:D

[SteenkyBastage]

Originally posted by Placid


Its obvious you will argue your point to the end.
I consider giving ones opinion when not asked preaching.

Yes I read this thread when there was only one post but found some of the last posts before I responded as just plain pointless and demeaning.
:D

i hope you dont consider my posts to be any of the demeaning ones.

again, i only stated my opinion for people to read and decide on their own what to do with it. if they decide not to read it, i'm fine. if they decide to read and disagree, i'm still fine.

i'm not trying to argue a point. i'm not trying to preach to you. i'm doing the same thing several thousand other people do on a regular basis (here in the forums, as well as all the reviewers you find on hardware sites, and countless other examples).

i'm sorry you dont want to hear people's opinions (unless asked), but a forum isn't a good place to go to get away from people's opinions.

i do, however respect your opinion to not want to hear ours :) fortunately i'm pretty sure there are people who are interested in our opinions. while they can choose to read them, you also can choose to simply not read them.

sorry if this bothers you.

[Placid]

Dosen't bother me :D I am too old to have much bother me.
I just asked a question that was never answered and I wasn't even asking you.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by Placid
Why do you care what other people do with their money?
I know people who spend more than the cost of GF4 on drugs in a month.
I don't go to where they hang out and tell them what a waste of money it is and they shouldn't waste there money like that because I don't really care.

Interesting :)

Placid, I love you like a brother, you've been of great help to me and numerous others.

The fellowship ends there!!! :p

I see the reasoning of both arguments. All I will say is that I would prefer people donate their money to the Red Cross then spend it on unnecessary frames ;)... or donate some of it to the "Pinky needs a Li Lan case Fund". I think some of us are responsible for the proliferation of video cards and the mhz wars... I personally hold myself accountable for buying components to raise my 3dMark scores. I want to allow others to feel free to speak outside "the box" here at the forums. It's not all about obsessive and compulsive overclocking, some of it is about prudence and practicality.

Oh, and let's keep the tempers down, I'd hate to make the mods jobs any harder ;).

[Pinky]

Geforce 4 is coming!!

Hurrah!!
BUMP!

:mad:

[FerrariF50]

I'm thinking about getting one when the prices come down...

[Voodoo Rufus]

GeForce 4 :drool:. I'd like to have a Ti4200, but maybe in a year or two, when I build a dual proc ClawHammer.

[-=UR=- Ranger]

all the new cards are hype, my Geforce 2 plays any Game I throw at it with high enough FPS...and I'm gonne stay with it until I find the first game that doesn't run smoothly

[Acko]

Well I`ve read all your posts, read a lot of reviews on the Geforce 4 & at the end of the day it`s a card we all want (come now be honest)
At the price of £320-00 it`s not cheap but for the specs. it`s a good price compared to other Geforce cards that have been released in the past.
I want one just to play with & you all know a thread will be started to see who has the new top score in town.
Who will be first?
What will the score be?
We will soon know!!!!!!!

Acko

Asus A7V266-E/Alpha 8045
XP1600+
512 Crucial DDR PC2100
Geforce 3 (Soon to be Geforce 4)
12/10/32A Plextor
VideoLogic Sonicfury
19" Iiyama Monitor
Antec 1035