Network admin snooping

[Voodoo Rufus]

Is it possible for network admins to monitor bandwidth on an individual's IP address among thousands of IPs?

[PolyPill]

yes

[flounder43]

They can do more than monitor it, too. They can tell *exactly* what you have been up to.

[Voodoo Rufus]

Hmm, I don't like the sound of that.

[PolyPill]

You don't even need to be the network admin to monitor what someone is doing.

So if you don't like it I suggest you disconnect from the internet.

[Voodoo Rufus]

It's a little hard to disconnect when I post stuff on here all the time. Disconnecting the internet is not an option.

[Voodoo Rufus]

I just don't want them knowing how much bandwidth I'm using or the programs I'm using to use that bandwidth. I only use at most 40KB/sec.

[PolyPill]

There's no way around that. Packets have to be addressed to you for you to get them, and they monitor how many packets are addressed to you.

[Voodoo Rufus]

I've stopped my downloads for a while. When the smoke settles, I might pick it up again.

[rugby]

Just out of curiosity, what're you downloading?

I sniff packets here at work and it's lots of fun.

[Kingslayer]

I'm going to go out on a limb and play devil's advocate. I can do it pretty well in this situation as I am an assistant admin where I work.

KNOCK IT OFF!

If your office policy is to not download tons of crap then dont. Plain and simple. No offense, but it's people with your mentallity that make my job an absolute pain. Let's put it this way. We just had to order an extra T-1 line to be put into one of our remote offices because they were tanking out the one they had. Come to find out it was because someone just like you was downloading stupid crap like music and games and programs that had no bearing on his job. He just personally cost this place an extra $800 a month. One person managed to choke a T-1. One person.

I asked to have him fired. No questions asked. He was trained and told before not to do this. Lucky for him they didnt listen to my request to bounce him out on his arse.

And yes. I have the ability to see EVERYTHING that you do on my network. And I mean EVERYTHING.

[Voodoo Rufus]

All I download are TV episodes of Babylon 5, around 120MB each. No movies or games. This is not at an office, by the way.

The servers chopped Morpheus/Kazaa off at the knees, to hundredths of a KB/sec bandwidth allowed. Now they're doing their homework on all the other file sharing programs and trying to stop them.

[PolyPill]

We have the same problem, but my suggestion was to convert everyone to thin clients running linux so they wouldn't know how to do it if they wanted to.

[Voodoo Rufus]

What are thin clients on Linux?

[Wa11y]

Originally posted by Kingslayer
I'm going to go out on a limb and play devil's advocate. I can do it pretty well in this situation as I am an assistant admin where I work.

KNOCK IT OFF!

If your office policy is to not download tons of crap then dont. Plain and simple. No offense, but it's people with your mentallity that make my job an absolute pain. Let's put it this way. We just had to order an extra T-1 line to be put into one of our remote offices because they were tanking out the one they had. Come to find out it was because someone just like you was downloading stupid crap like music and games and programs that had no bearing on his job. He just personally cost this place an extra $800 a month. One person managed to choke a T-1. One person.

I asked to have him fired. No questions asked. He was trained and told before not to do this. Lucky for him they didnt listen to my request to bounce him out on his arse.

And yes. I have the ability to see EVERYTHING that you do on my network. And I mean EVERYTHING.

I'd have to agree with Kingslayer. You seem to think you shouldn't be downloading these things from where ever you are, so don't. Simple as that.

I surf the forums all day at work. But I keep downloads to a minimum. We only have superdisks at work, so the most I'd be able to take home at any one time is 120MB. But I have DSL at home that's faster than my office connection, so what's the point?

Basically if you're worried about being monitored, you're probably doing something you know you shouldn't. So don't.

[Voodoo Rufus]

I get the idea. Thanks.

[Crash893]

i think there are programs you can use to limit your download speeds

you could just go down there( to the admin) and tell him what your doing so he doesnt get ****ed


ask him if its alright if you download at night
if not tell him to limit your speed at night to acomodate you

9 times out of ten there happy you came to them instead of causing a problem and them finding out

[Voodoo Rufus]

Considering that internet browsing speeds don't change at all at the school where I am at, I don't quite know the problem anymore. Morpheus/Kazaa put a major hit on bandwidth and brought the network to its knees, but WinMX doesn't really. Also, since this is a school and I don't know who the admins are, it would just be safer to stop file sharing until they quit complaining altogether. They threaten with disciplinary action for anyone they catch. They also mention "Net Police" who are hired by major name movie and music producers who track IP addresses to their source. I have no idea if this exists or not, but it seems as though they want to scare the students into not using file sharing programs.

[trey_w]

hey what school you go to?

at my school the same thing is happening

they use DHCP for everyone, and they said they couldn't figure out the person who is doing it

i found the ip and the MAC address

i told them if they would pay for my school i would tell them info

they offered me a t-shirt instead

lol:beer:

[Voodoo Rufus]

I'd rather not say what school I go to. I do know that we have a fat internet connection of at least 100Mbit/sec. Probably OC192.

We use DHCP also, but I always get the same IP address everytime I log on.

[MrOOBiLL]

Originally posted by Voodoo Rufus
Considering that internet browsing speeds don't change at all at the school where I am at, I don't quite know the problem anymore. Morpheus/Kazaa put a major hit on bandwidth and brought the network to its knees, but WinMX doesn't really. Also, since this is a school and I don't know who the admins are, it would just be safer to stop file sharing until they quit complaining altogether. They threaten with disciplinary action for anyone they catch. They also mention "Net Police" who are hired by major name movie and music producers who track IP addresses to their source. I have no idea if this exists or not, but it seems as though they want to scare the students into not using file sharing programs.
You'd better watch out for those net police buddy! They might get you.... and the other 20 million north americans downloading illegal software... [Sorry 4 the sarcasm, couldnt resist:D ]
The record companies want the services down, they can't and won't do anything to an end-user. But your network admins.... I can't garantee that you wont recive a spanking for what you've done. :beer:

[Voodoo Rufus]

I take your sarcasm light-heartedly, no problems there. The problem with file-sharing is that when one serive is shut down, another pops up. Also, once they become independent of servers, becoming user-user level, then it's even more unstoppable, unless they exist already.

[rugby]

All you have to ask yourself is "Is it worth the risk?" Is it worth losing all network privs, Internet access, and possible fines from your school?

If you were at my school and I nabbed you, goodbye network privs/Internet access.

And if you think you're smart and can get around this, be warned that this is considered hacking and punishable by law.

Not trying to be a monster here, just letting you know how the other side feels.

[flounder43]

I have said this before, and I'll say it again, why does a company care what you download (as long as it is not offensive or illegal) while you are on a break? As long as it doesn't take away from work, and they have the internet connection, what's the damage?

Maybe they should take away your telephone as well? Sure they don't want you gabbing on the telephone when you should be working, but when on a break, no one seems to mind you making a few calls...

What's the difference?

[Kingslayer]

Originally posted by flounder43
I have said this before, and I'll say it again, why does a company care what you download (as long as it is not offensive or illegal) while you are on a break? As long as it doesn't take away from work, and they have the internet connection, what's the damage?

Maybe they should take away your telephone as well? Sure they don't want you gabbing on the telephone when you should be working, but when on a break, no one seems to mind you making a few calls...

What's the difference?

Quite simple Flounder. Resources.

I have on my network, 350 computers in 5 different offices in 5 different counties. All interconnected with T-1 lines. If I have some schmuk downloading crap while he is on break he is hurting the other people who are trying to work through lunch. And I'm usually one of them. Read my first reply in this thread and see what one person downloading garbage can do.

Them being on the phone isnt stopping other people from making their phone calls now is it? No. They arent hogging shared resources talking on the phone on their desk. Your point is moot.

The workers dont pay for the T-1 lines so why should they use them for personal gain. Seeing I work in a political based office this looks bad for the elected official in my office. The media comes by and says "The county is paying thousands for your offices internet and you people are downloading movies and games and musice!!!" Can you imagine the uproar come election time? Now I have to jump through hoops to quell the situation because one @ss couldn't follow simple office policy.

If you want to use the internet for personal reasons, then do it at home. I dont ask my users to take their computers home and have them perform maintenance and defrag on their time? Dont do personal crap on mine.

[Voodoo Rufus]

If the internet bandwidth is not maxed out with people using file sharing programs, why does it matter? If people's work or web browsing isn't affected, I don't see the problem.

[flounder43]

Originally posted by Kingslayer


Quite simple Flounder. Resources.

I have on my network, 350 computers in 5 different offices in 5 different counties. All interconnected with T-1 lines. If I have some schmuk downloading crap while he is on break he is hurting the other people who are trying to work through lunch. And I'm usually one of them. Read my first reply in this thread and see what one person downloading garbage can do.

Them being on the phone isnt stopping other people from making their phone calls now is it? No. They arent hogging shared resources talking on the phone on their desk. Your point is moot.

The workers dont pay for the T-1 lines so why should they use them for personal gain. Seeing I work in a political based office this looks bad for the elected official in my office. The media comes by and says "The county is paying thousands for your offices internet and you people are downloading movies and games and musice!!!" Can you imagine the uproar come election time? Now I have to jump through hoops to quell the situation because one @ss couldn't follow simple office policy.

If you want to use the internet for personal reasons, then do it at home. I dont ask my users to take their computers home and have them perform maintenance and defrag on their time? Dont do personal crap on mine.

Ok, i guess that's true if you are burdening the companies resources. But what I was thinking of is something more like a company that does nothing with the internet, say a law office...

If you are not burdening others use of the internet connection, what is the harm? My point is certainly not moot, it is illustrative. The facts are just different. I think we probably agree, actually.

The telephone analogy is once again useful. If personal telephone calls were in fact hampering the company's business, then they would not be allowed. But, as it turns out, the telephone lines are plentiful, and nobody knows the difference. The same would go for many companies that have internet access to burn, but still feel as though it is somehow "costing" them something when someone checks their email.

I understand limiting the internet access when the company needs the bandwith, but when they don't, I don't understand. My theory is that people believe that there is something invidious about the internet itself...

Kind of like making a personal telephone call at work 60 years ago...

[Warlord2]

Voodoo Rufus

I think they are more aiming to keep there servers down to a minimum. (gaming servers)

I have friends in dorms that know people that have 10 computers in there Dorm all running a CS servers, and there getting payed for it

40kb is nothing to worry about when others are using up MB of connection, those I think are the people that there trying to keep down.

[Voodoo Rufus]

I know there are CS servers somewhere in the dorms, and I know of 2 that are open about their existence, but not their location. I know they use a heck of a lot more bandwidth than I do, but can WinMX packets be identified from any other internet packets?

How do you get payed to have a CS server?

What do you mean by they want to keep their servers down to a minimum? Down in functionality?

[Warlord2]

clans will pay up to $200 for a CS server every month, that is how they CAN get payed,

Im mean they want to keep the the servers people put up on there computer down to a minimum, you know, ftp,games,app,etc
things that take a lot of bandwidth. Also some people put up ftps for warez and those can get the school a law suit.

I know a person in my TFC clan that has a dorm with a awesome connection however they somehow limited his bandwidth so he can maybe put up a 8 person server at the most, but I guess not all schools are like that:rolleyes:

[Kingslayer]

Originally posted by flounder43


Ok, i guess that's true if you are burdening the companies resources. But what I was thinking of is something more like a company that does nothing with the internet, say a law office...


Flounder.....I am in a law office.

And the internet is our single most valuable tool. We pull feeds from the Circuits police departments, we have our own central database that the outlaying counties use to pull information from. The internet is invaluable to our investigators.

[rugby]

Voodoo Rufus, that's a pretty bold statement that it doesn't matter. Are you postive it doesn't matter? I know if people here are hogging bandwidth the remote schools cannot connect to our library server and thusly cannot check out books. They also cannot connect to our Filemaker Pro database for student assessment so they cannot enter the information they need to.

Why not ask if you can do this stuff instead of being sneaky?

[Voodoo Rufus]

They already told us to stop. I know there's people who take more bandwidth than I do, so is there anything to worry about?

[Kingslayer]

Originally posted by Voodoo Rufus
They already told us to stop. I know there's people who take more bandwidth than I do, so is there anything to worry about?

They told you to stop. You have answered your own question!

So what if other people do it. That doesn't make it alright for you to do it....

They told you years ago not to rob banks, are you going to start robbing banks because everyone else is and your not?!?!

[Voodoo Rufus]

Hey, I didn't want this to become and ethics question. My original question was whether admins could tell about bandwitdh and where packets are going/coming. That has been answered.

[Kingslayer]

Originally posted by Voodoo Rufus
They already told us to stop. I know there's people who take more bandwidth than I do, so is there anything to worry about?

If you didnt want this to become an ethics question why did you ask a question like this?

And it doesnt have to become an ethics question. If you ask something here that can get one of the owners of the site in trouble because some one here told you to go right ahead and do it, then it automatically is an ethics question. That is one of the duties of us senior members, to stop things such as this that can tarnish the name of the site.

I took it to an ethics level because you asked, and because with me it's personal because my job is stopping people from doing what you want to do.

[Voodoo Rufus]

Then I thank you for your input as a Senior Member. It goes to show what high standards you have.

[supraway]

Let me voice my opinion here. At the school I'm currently attending, we have an OC3. There are about 30000 people here, so I don't think it is shared across the campus, just to the dorms. Anyways, I'm the only person on my floor with a 100 megabit connection, and I use this to it's fullest extent. I run a CS server, and on most nights, keep Direct Connect running. I can reach max upload speeds of ~2000KB/sec, and max download speeds of ~8000KB/sec. This proves that the lines are not heavily used, but I still restrict myself.

I purposely limit my uploads to 1 gigabyte a day, and my downloads to 10 gigabytes a day. This is just courtesy to the admins & whoever else may be using the network, plus I DON'T upload any illegal software, and try not to download either. Again, this is just because I don't want anyone being hurt by this.

There ARE in fact limits at this school. Once you upload more than, say, 3 gigs a day, they send you a somewhat hateful e-mail stating that what you are doing is probably school-related (lol), but if it is not, you need to watch how much you transfer. I got warned twice, one for 3 gigs a night, the other for 5 (both times, I forgot to limit myself). I e-mailed the admin, and much to my surprise (or maybe not -- I don't know...) they knew I was using Kaaza and WinMX, and they were very kind about letting me know that it is just fine with them as long as I don't use excessive bandwidth, and don't do anything that will get them in trouble.

I also go to lengths to protect my & the University's privacy & security. I am firewalled behind a server running Mandrake Linux 8.1, IPv4 connection sharing (so I don't use a switch or hub -- which is forbidden... limited IP's, you know :)) which is also running my CS server. Now, this is traceable through our network, at least to which room I'm in, but it doesn't pinpoint my computer.

I personally met one of the admins, and they are caring and nice people, but as everyone here has stated, they are the last person you want against you. They have logs of everything you do. They know what websites you have visited, they know which file-transferring programs you have been running. They have this information, and if you screw them, they can use it against you. Lets face it, even the most careful person may stumble across something illegal, and this, no matter how innocent you may be, can and will be used against you.

// End rant

Oh, and BTW, CS servers use at most, 40KB/sec of bandwidth upload, which is very minimal compared to FTP, webserver, or File Transfer programs. I don't get paid for this, I just do it for the sake of the clan (which I'm not even in).