Water Cooling Disaster

[A.T.A.R.O.]

Hello, I've been trying to get a setup going this entire week, but I keep running into problems. I have three major issues to contend with, I'm begging for help because I'm on an extraordinarily tight budget and there are all sorts of things my mom and I desperately need this computer for.
The problems are:

I'm trying to water cool an 8800GT graphics card and my Swiftech memory heatsinks will not clear the tubing of the water block. This is the thing I really need help with, how can I shorten them to clear the tubing?
I have PrimoFlex LRT tubing and the stuff is REALLY resistant. Ridiculously resistant. It bends pretty horridly; I'm trying to accommodate it and the tubing has a mind of its own. On top of that, I have an awful habit of sticking the nozzles/connectors/whatever they're called into the tubing and not being able to pull them out if I decide I need a different length of the tubing.
Speaking of the connectors, I put one into my reservoir the wrong way and it now has threads going two ways. Have I ruined it? Will I find a replacement at the hardware store?


The case is an acrylic case that is awkward to work with, the reservoir and rad are Swiftech and far past their warranty. I had an Apogee GTX for my processor and even though it had a minor case of galvanic corrosion, I'm too spooked to use it this time around (I've lost the receipt to send for a new cover).
:bang head I think this emoticon sums up my feelings pretty well.

Here's what the setup looked like before I took it apart this week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT_xKQFGSS0

[Reefa_Madness]

Welcome to the madness!


I'm trying to water cool an 8800GT graphics card and my Swiftech memory heatsinks will not clear the tubing of the water block. This is the thing I really need help with, how can I shorten them to clear the tubing?


I'm not as experienced in WC as many of the guys here, but I'll try to start it off and let the others join in.

If you could somehow post pics, it would make it easier to grasp the exact nature of the problem, but based on your descriptions, here are some things to consider.

Do you or anyone you know have a dremel that you can put a cutting disc on it and shave off a portion of the sink's fins? If the fins are what is in the way, then this is probably the easiest solution. Just to be on the safe side, be sure to cover the card in the area around the sink(s) in question in order to avoid getting copper shavings (Swiftech sinks are copper, right?) in places that there shouldn't be any. Cover the card in plastic food wrap and then cut out the area over the sink in question and you'll probably be fine.

Another approach, but you'll need to be careful since they are already attached, is to try to bend the fins out of the way...bend them back and away in the area where they interfere...picture a flower blooming and opening the petals back. You'll need to be able to hold the sinks with some type of pliers while bending the fins with another set otherwise you could end up yanking them right off the card.

I'm not familiar with your specific tubing, but some of them will soften up if put in very warm/slightly hot water. That might make is flexible enough for you to shape it the way you need it.

Hard to tell about the connector, but it does sound like it might be stripped. Do you know what type of thread it is?

[A.T.A.R.O.]

EDIT: Let's try this post one last time.

The heatsinks popped off, one by accident, and I took the other off because, well, it'll be easier to work with. The threading on the black thing splits sort of like this: http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/super-charger-13.jpg
Only it's more level, and the split is on one side, it isn't mirrored on the other side like I'd expect it to be.
I tried to upload pictures but they were blurry, 1600 by 1200 eyesores, now I've resized them. I'm sorry to keep reposting.

[Springbok]

Can you afford to get 10 feet of some new tubing?

If you have doubts I'd test the reservoir for leaks before installing it anywhere near your 8800GT. I've lost a couple graphics cards to leaks and it aint fun, even when they're under warranty it's a pain to go through the whole process. You could easily replace the reservoir with a T-line instead of looking for one locally, I made the switch and I prefer the T-line to the res.

You should be able to bend the memory fins, copper is pretty soft and shouldn't break.

[muddocktor]

A.T.A.R.O, it would probably be best if you ordered yourself some nice metal barbs to replace those plastic jobs you are using. You most probably didn't hurt the reservoir since the plastic of the barb is softer than the lexan of the res. You won't be able to go to the corner plumbing store and get a replacement though as the res is threaded in G1/4 and not npt thread. Order you a couple of Dangerden FB (Fat Boy) G 1/4 Fittings - 1/2" Barb (http://www.jab-tech.com/Dangerden-FB-Fat-Boy-G-1-4-Fittings-1-2-Barb-pr-4181.html) if you are using 1/2" or 7/16" ID tubing or Dangerden FB (Fat Boy) G 1/4 Fittings - 3/8" Barb (http://www.jab-tech.com/Dangerden-FB-Fat-Boy-G-1-4-Fittings-3-8-Barb-pr-4213.html) if you are using 3/8" ID tubing to replace them with. Those are much easier to make up on waterblocks and reservoirs than the plastic ones without crossthreading.

As for the ramsinks, what I did with mine was to take a pair of sidecutters (diagonals) pliers and trim the pins down a bit for clearance where they interfered with the lines going to my gpu block at first. Then the other day I neatened things up a bit by carefully trimming them level with my Dremel. The dremel work was just to make them look more even and pretty. If you use the diagonal pliers just cut one pin at a time enough to give yourself clearance for the tubing and clamp.

[ricflairw000]

8800 gt water block is it full coverage? or does it just go on the GPU?
The threads are screwed up on the plastic fitting? i dont understand how you get it to go two ways

where are you located? i have some extra fittings
the easy way is to cut the tubing thats on the fitting that wont let go. if you can try to rotate as you pull that helps sometimes

wire cutters can cut the copper heat sinks

i think you might be trying to bend the tubing too tightly if its kinking



edit: wow i almost had a seizure from the video lol

and within 9 minutes three posts hahaha

[Springbok]

I've used plastic barbs for awhile now and I'd say you're fine with them, but you can get brass barbs at the hardware store if you wanna save $ on shipping, just bring along one of yours so you get the size right. I have the chromed ones on my radiator but they're harder to come by, then my Swifty CPU block has plastic barbs, my GPU block has the danger den ones.

[muddocktor]

I've used plastic barbs for awhile now and I'd say you're fine with them, but you can get brass barbs at the hardware store if you wanna save $ on shipping, just bring along one of yours so you get the size right. I have the chromed ones on my radiator but they're harder to come by, then my Swifty CPU block has plastic barbs, my GPU block has the danger den ones.

Dude, if he is using a Swiftech MCW60 gpu block like I'm pretty sure he is, then if he goes to the local plumbing supply and gets some barbs in regular NPT threads like most everything in the US is plumbed in, then he stands a very good chance of ruining the top of his block and leaking water all the hell over in his computer. NPT threads are a taper thread and the threads used on the waterblock are a straight wall thread. It might look like it makes up decently but it will be very fragile and subject to leakage or even breaking the plastic under even low side loading. If you want to attempt doing this then that's you. But don't recommend that someone do this in the forums because those threads are not even remotely interchangeable.

[A.T.A.R.O.]

Can you afford to get 10 feet of some new tubing?

If you have doubts I'd test the reservoir for leaks before installing it anywhere near your 8800GT. I've lost a couple graphics cards to leaks and it aint fun, even when they're under warranty it's a pain to go through the whole process. You could easily replace the reservoir with a T-line instead of looking for one locally, I made the switch and I prefer the T-line to the res.

You should be able to bend the memory fins, copper is pretty soft and shouldn't break.
I don't know that I can order more tubing, I'm hoping to use what I just ordered. The thing is, there was a leak on this very graphics card a year and a half ago. Long story short I eventually got it good as new with 90% alcohol. These copper heatsinks are pretty thick, I haven't been able to bend 'em yet.
8800 gt water block is it full coverage? or does it just go on the GPU?
The threads are screwed up on the plastic fitting? i dont understand how you get it to go two ways

where are you located? i have some extra fittings
the easy way is to cut the tubing thats on the fitting that wont let go. if you can try to rotate as you pull that helps sometimes
wire cutters can cut the copper heat sinks
i think you might be trying to bend the tubing too tightly if its kinking

edit: wow i almost had a seizure from the video lol
and within 9 minutes three posts hahaha
Just outside of Boston MA, I got the thread thing going because I screwed the plastic barb in funny at least once, took it out, maybe did it two or three times.
The video was filmed at daytime, you should see what it looks like in a darkly lit room.

[Porvalsh]

You can get this stuff to keep your tubing from kinking.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5484/koo-75/Koolance_38_10mm_ID_Tubing_Wrap_-_Black_SPR-10BK.html?tl=g30c289s715

To get the tubing off of the barbs I use a knife. I slip it into the crack where the tubing ends and meets the barb wall. The end of the tubing is flat agains the knife so that the knife cannot possibly cut the tubing. I've also used flat head screw drivers in this way. Then push it up by bracing it against my thumb and lifting. I work one side, and then the others all the way around until I can finally just pull the tubing off.

The above method works fine for my setup with cold tubing. If you need an extra oomph, you can hair dry the tubing a bit to warm it up. It will be softer and more malleable.

[jediman]

I've seen ramsinks like yours bent out of the way for tubing to the gfx card. Maybe find some sort of wedge you can plunge down between the pins to get them started bending.

[ascl]

I used some of the enzotech half hight ram sinks around where the barbs/tubes came out. That left enough clearance for me:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/enbcbmlowprf.html

[muddocktor]

Here is a pic I took of my mod to the ramsinks in front of my waterblock that I did with the diagonal pliers when I first installed the MCW60 and ramsinks on my old 8800GTS. It wasn't real pretty but it got the job done. I had pulled that card out of my main system earlier this year and just had it sitting on the shelf, until I decided to put it in a dedicated Seti cruncher to process CUDA last month. I then cut the pins down just a little more and neatened it up with my dremel. Unfortunately I didn't take any pics after cutting it with the dremel for you to look at.

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/7573/cutdownforclearancegs6.th.jpg (http://img361.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cutdownforclearancegs6.jpg)

[ricflairw000]

Here is a pic I took of my mod to the ramsinks in front of my waterblock that I did with the diagonal pliers when I first installed the MCW60 and ramsinks on my old 8800GTS. It wasn't real pretty but it got the job done. I had pulled that card out of my main system earlier this year and just had it sitting on the shelf, until I decided to put it in a dedicated Seti cruncher to process CUDA last month. I then cut the pins down just a little more and neatened it up with my dremel. Unfortunately I didn't take any pics after cutting it with the dremel for you to look at.

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/7573/cutdownforclearancegs6.th.jpg (http://img361.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cutdownforclearancegs6.jpg)
dang baller pump :p


boston :( if you were closer we could meet up and id give them to you
yeah i saw the reflection off the case of the window

[johan851]

You can cut down heatsinks with a hacksaw and a vice grip if you have them. Otherwise, you'll have to order something else or try to bend them. Bending them might not work very well.

I would ditch the reservoir and use a t-line. It's a lot simpler.

You could try to make do with the tubing you have, but I think your life would be a lot easier if you ordered some Masterkleer 7/16" ID tubing - that's what most people use, and it's great.

[A.T.A.R.O.]

boston :( if you were closer we could meet up and id give them to you
yeah i saw the reflection off the case of the window

Are they 1/2 inch ID barbs, and how many? I might go so far as to send you something, quid pro quo.

You can get this stuff to keep your tubing from kinking.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5484/koo-75/Koolance_38_10mm_ID_Tubing_Wrap_-_Black_SPR-10BK.html?tl=g30c289s715

To get the tubing off of the barbs I use a knife. I slip it into the crack where the tubing ends and meets the barb wall. The end of the tubing is flat agains the knife so that the knife cannot possibly cut the tubing. I've also used flat head screw drivers in this way. Then push it up by bracing it against my thumb and lifting. I work one side, and then the others all the way around until I can finally just pull the tubing off.

The above method works fine for my setup with cold tubing. If you need an extra oomph, you can hair dry the tubing a bit to warm it up. It will be softer and more malleable.

Kinking is not the issue, the issue is that it won't bend enough.
I'll have to try the rest of that though, thanks.

[ricflairw000]

I am pretty sure they are 1/2 ill check tonight
i know i have two plastic ones and a few metal ones

well we can work something out, like mailing me postage to send it to you
i can find a box at work to send them in

[tweakboy]

Good comments and replys guys. You can try what he said. I have 10 feet tubing ,,

Well eventually get you going,,,

[Springbok]

Dude, if he is using a Swiftech MCW60 gpu block like I'm pretty sure he is, then if he goes to the local plumbing supply and gets some barbs in regular NPT threads like most everything in the US is plumbed in, then he stands a very good chance of ruining the top of his block and leaking water all the hell over in his computer. NPT threads are a taper thread and the threads used on the waterblock are a straight wall thread. It might look like it makes up decently but it will be very fragile and subject to leakage or even breaking the plastic under even low side loading. If you want to attempt doing this then that's you. But don't recommend that someone do this in the forums because those threads are not even remotely interchangeable.Hmm I didn't consider threads, I was just thinking about my first water build on a shoestring budget. Still, I don't think plastic barbs are even the issue, the Swifty blocks ship with plastic barbs, you just have to make sure you buy extra for emergencies.

[A.T.A.R.O.]

Concerning the barbs:
I'm sorry I didn't specify exact what reservoir I have, I have a slightly older version of this:
http://swiftnets.com/products/MCRES-MICRO-Rev2.asp
I'm considering ordering barbs from Frozen CPU because their warehouse seems to be the closest to Massachusetts among DangerDen, Jab Tech (where I usually get my parts), et al.
Will the barbs on these page fit my reservoir? (http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g30/c407/s1030/list/p1/Liquid_Cooling-Fittings-Barbs-12_ID_Barbs-Page1.html)

[muddocktor]

Yeah, anything threaded in G1/4 should work, as long as they don't have a very long threaded section. IIRC the earlier Swiftech res uses NPSM threads and the newer stuff is threaded BSPP, which are very close but the threads/inch count is slightly different. But as long as the barb doesn't have a long threaded section you should be good to go with the G1/4 threaded barbs.

[A.T.A.R.O.]

Yeah, anything threaded in G1/4 should work, as long as they don't have a very long threaded section. IIRC the earlier Swiftech res uses NPSM threads and the newer stuff is threaded BSPP, which are very close but the threads/inch count is slightly different. But as long as the barb doesn't have a long threaded section you should be good to go with the G1/4 threaded barbs.
NPSM, BSPP, what do they stand for, what do they mean? As far as I can tell from Swiftech's website, the black plastic barbs supplied with the new res look just like the ones I have.
Will the brass ones be safe for my MCW60? Should I stick with the Swiftech barbs listed or should I go with a cheaper brand?

[ascl]

NPSM and BSPP are two different standards for threads.... American vs British. They are actually very similar, enough so that, if you have a short thread, you may get away with the difference. Its something like (don't quote me on this) 18 threads per inch vs 19 threads per inch...

Whatever barbs you use, make sure you leak test properly. Its possible to buy converter bits, with the NPSM male and BSPP female if you are worried.

[A.T.A.R.O.]

Whatever barbs you use, make sure you leak test properly. Its possible to buy converter bits, with the NPSM male and BSPP female if you are worried.
Could I get away with wrapping it in silicone tape if I get a leak from using the incorrect thread?

[ascl]

The seal should be made with the O-ring, not with the thread. So ensure you have the right size O-rings and you should be fine. The thread will only be an issue if you have to screw a long threaded barb into it.

EDIT: That said, here in HK the shops (mostly) only sell barbs that seal with the thread + tape. So tape can definitely work.

[sherretz]

Just to cover your ass, I recommend grabbing a small tube of clear silicon bathroom caulk. Put a small bead all the way around the barb, where the flange (the wide, flat part that looks like a washer) meets the res, then tighten down a bit. That will guarantee you get a seal.


Many people misinterpret how fittings work (this is prevalent in my line of work). "Inserts," like o-rings or small amounts of caulk do the actual sealing. Screw threads are there to keep the sealing material in place and keep constant pressure on the seal (you can consider Teflon tape an "insert," in this case).

[billb]

Many people misinterpret how fittings work (this is prevalent in my line of work). "Inserts," like o-rings or small amounts of caulk do the actual sealing. Screw threads are there to keep the sealing material in place and keep constant pressure on the seal (you can consider Teflon tape an "insert," in this case).

My understanding is that TFE tape lubricated the threads so that you can get the correct tightness so that the threads themselves (or the "insert") seal properly. In other words, Teflon tape isn't like a glue you use to do the sealing.

[sherretz]

That's probably a better interpretation of how it works with just threads and tape.

[Otter]

My understanding is that TFE tape lubricated the threads so that you can get the correct tightness so that the threads themselves (or the "insert") seal properly.
This is my understanding as well. When it's the threads that seal, the tape might act like a very very thin gasket, but I think the main benefit is overcoming friction.

[Spawn-Inc]

This is my understanding as well. When it's the threads that seal, the tape might act like a very very thin gasket, but I think the main benefit is overcoming friction.

in gas fitting, using pipe dope is mainly for later on when you have to remove the pipe. prevents it from welding together via rust over time.

the way the thread is designed it makes it so the thread is the seal, not an o-ring or anything like that. NPT.

[darkpyro1]

I don't know that I can order more tubing, I'm hoping to use what I just ordered.

You don't need to order tubing, all you need to do is go to Home Depot or Lowe's or something and find Vinyl Tubing. I got 10 ft of it for like $5 at Home Depot. Just measure the inside diameter and outside diameter of your current tubes and buy Vinyl Tubing of the same size.

[ricflairw000]

i got the fittings for you

let me know!

[Otter]

the way the thread is designed it makes it so the thread is the seal, not an o-ring or anything like that. NPT.
Was this a response to what I said? If so, I'm not sure what the connection is, but yes, that's how NPT works.

[Spawn-Inc]

Was this a response to what I said? If so, I'm not sure what the connection is, but yes, that's how NPT works.

lol, dunno was just pointing it out, mainly what the pipe dope was for. most think it helps stop leaks, but it's not really meant for that, though it does help a little.

i work in the trade and thought i would let the big secret out lol.

[Dawgdoc]

perhaps late to this thread, but here is another simple way to mod your heatsinks to fit under barbs. Basically bend them out in a fan like manner. They still cool the memory just fine.

Sorry I dont have a more close up pic, and the waterblock with barbs isnt actually on there for this pic but I think you get the idea :)


http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj5/Dawgdoc999/img0373vr7.jpg

[Otter]

lol, dunno was just pointing it out, mainly what the pipe dope was for. most think it helps stop leaks, but it's not really meant for that, though it does help a little.

i work in the trade and thought i would let the big secret out lol.
I've never done much with gas, but tape, dope, or soap definitely helps get an NPT fitting to hold water. I'd never considered the rust angle, but now that you mention it, I'd much rather work with an old fitting that had something separating the metal parts than one that didn't. :beer: