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With vs Without Vdroop - effect on stability?

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NV

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
I'll start this from the beginning:

I have an i7 920 and an EVGA x58 LE board. I OCed the 920 to 3.8GHz, set the DIMM voltage to 1.65, and set the Vcore to 1.3 (I know it's a bit high for the frequency, but my heat is under control so until I have a lot more time to fine tune my OC, this is ok.)

Anyway, I forgot to bump my VTT to 1.2V to match the increase in DIMM voltage. I was happily running the system for a long time, fully stability tested and folding some nice crunchy BugWUs. My version of stability tested, in this instance, is over 50 hours of systester (I run ubuntu) on all 8 threads. I read something about matching the VTT and DIMM voltage, remembered I'd forgotten, and decided to fix it. While I was in there, I tried to get my RAM clock up from it's meager 1066MHz (rated 1600). It's set at 2:8 and bclk is 190, but it still shows 1066 when I boot (although BIOS shows a "target" frequency of 1522MHz).

So I bumped it up to 2:10, just to see what would happen figuring at worst it might not boot. Which it didn't. So I hit the clear CMOS button, yadda ya, put all my settings back the way they were, only this time with the VTT voltage where it should've been. Booted.

Then I ran systester for a few minutes just to make sure I hadn't done something horribly stupid. There was no immediate lock up, so I figured this being my exact same OC from before it ought to be stable and I turned on the folding client. System crashed within a minute or two.

After going into BIOS a couple times, having the whole thing happen to me a couple times, and scratching my head more than a couple times, I finally found the one thing I'd missed: I set the board to NO VDROOP. I recall Brolloks review stating that the board had
ZERO VDROP OR VDROOP !!!

And I didn't doubt it. Yet now I've been running the folding client for about a half hour with no lockup (after changing it to NO VDROOP). Could that really be the hole in my stability?

So now I'm considering things, and I have to wonder whether the observed lack of VDROP/VDROOP was because the setting "NO VDROOP" was selected, or without it? CPU-z doesn't work in wine (at least that's what I've found), so I cannot test this myself.


This post raises an awful lot of questions (at least for me), but the only one I'm really concerned with answering right now is whether my system should be stable. IDENTICAL settings, but with VTT bumped up 100mV. My expectation would be yes, but I'm just as surprised by the effect of not setting NO VDROOP as I am certain that I should be good to go after *upping* a voltage, which should make a system more stable.

Edit:
Speedstep is off. CPU Frequency Monitor is toggling between 1.6GHz at low load to 2.79GHz at peak load. BIOS still says CPU is at 3.8GHz. Folding is much slower than normal. Yet systester benchmarks match my previous findings for 3.8GHz, which far outshines even the 3.26GHz that the "Dummy OC" put me to.

Something bad is happening here, and I don't like it.
 
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I keep getting Confused. is VDROOP the same as Load Line Calibration? If so, turn it off.
 
Ok, folding speed is normal again (dunno why, but the first % took, AGES).

VDROOP is off. I'm just surprised that forgetting to turn it off left me with nil stability, and I'm basically wondering if a change in that would be expected to have such a dramatic effect.
 
I keep getting Confused. is VDROOP the same as Load Line Calibration? If so, turn it off.
They are not synonymous. LLC PREVENTS Vdroop.

Sometimes it can cause instability. I recommend it be disabled when finding your stable overclock, then enabling it towards the end of the process.
 
well do people really understand what LLC is or the others going by different names? Even why using it causes instability? (i know why but do you is the question. open ended question at that.)

while i have seen some claim it helps. in just about every motherboard i have used that has it. using the feature that prevents Vdroop, it either limits my oc or makes some of my oc's unstable.
 
One of the reasons I know of that LLC causes instability is b/c people sometimes tend to lower their vcore as LLC compensates for the sag. For example, I set 1.3v in bios, see 1.29 in windows. WHen I load the CPU I get a sag to 1.2. LLC helps keep that up to 1.30 or even a hair higher. Since people are now seeing that it goes up/stays the same on load, a natural reaction is to lower the vcore. As far as any other, technical reasons not what I listed above, I do not know. (man I hope I explained that properly)

I have tried plenty to enable/disable LLC and in my S775 experiences, this has made no difference in my max overclock. I leave it enabled as I like to see what I set stay. I have seen others though claim instability which is why my advice is what it is (leave disabled when intially o/c, when you find a nice stable o/c enable and see if you can lower the voltage).

EDIT: I also recall reading something about CPU's already compensate for this (undershoot/overshoot?) and that may be another reason why LLC could be bad. But I havent read up on that too much.
 
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One of the reasons I know of that LLC causes instability is b/c people sometimes tend to lower their vcore as LLC compensates for the sag. For example, I set 1.3v in bios, see 1.29 in windows. WHen I load the CPU I get a sag to 1.2. LLC helps keep that up to 1.30 or even a hair higher. Since people are now seeing that it goes up/stays the same on load, a natural reaction is to lower the vcore. As far as any other, technical reasons not what I listed above, I do not know. (man I hope I explained that properly)

I have tried plenty to enable/disable LLC and in my S775 experiences, this has made no difference in my max overclock. I leave it enabled as I like to see what I set stay. I have seen others though claim instability which is why my advice is what it is (leave disabled when intially o/c, when you find a nice stable o/c enable and see if you can lower the voltage).

EDIT: I also recall reading something about CPU's already compensate for this (undershoot/overshoot?) and that may be another reason why LLC could be bad. But I havent read up on that too much.

Interesting..
In my 775 testing I have always used LLC and have never suffered from it.
Testing this 1156 setup I seem to have hit a wall at 4.1GHz stability wise, she will do up to 4.4GHz but anything beyond 4.1GHz and stability is lost.
I will play around this weekend to see if LLC really effects max stable OC
would be nice to squeeze a few more drops out of the chip
 
Yeah I think this is a YMMV type answer... It hasnt affected my overclocks across several boards (Asus X38, Evga 780i, Asus/Giga P45 x2) and several chips (e6750, e8400, Q9450, Q9650). But that doesnt mean it isnt real.

And after attacking the google machine, my terminology used above regarding over/undershoot was wrong, that was a GTLref thing... but I recall seeing/hearing something about it but cant find it. The google only brings up threads like this with a back and forth debate. Thats why I say start without then put it on in the voltage tweaking process.
 
well any kind of voltage droop control is a current limiter... it could be that oc's being effected depends on the number of cpu phases. all i know is LLC for both my P55M-UD2 and UD4 limits my max oc, same for me on RIIG. i dont undershoot cpu voltage, if anything i tend to over do it. I then test, lower one notch, test agian, rinse and repeat, till it is unstable then up two notches on the cpuv.
 
on my asus p55 if i don't have LLC enabled vcore is all OVER the place.

Dr. Evil, what do you mean LLC limits your max OC? when i was running my R2G i always used LLC and didnt have a problem going 4.4+ on the 920.

?
 
Dr. Evil, what do you mean LLC limits your max OC? when i was running my R2G i always used LLC and didnt have a problem going 4.4+ on the 920.

?

well all i can really say is with voltage that works with it off oc is stable. same voltage setting in bios, with it on unstable. to me that also does effect max oc's as well... if i have to up the voltage more with it enabled it is a bad thing. IMO proves more how it is a useless feature unless running stock. though at that point it doesnt matter... current limiters for ocing is bad mmmkay? LOL
 
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It can come down to the board, and what kind of speeds/volts your using.


I've lost count of the boards I've benched now, sometimes it helps, others it doesn't.
Though I only use it at the top end.
ie: Abit IP35 Pro, running a Quad above 5.5Ghz. If the vcore drooped below 1.9v it would lock up. That board didn't have LLC in the bios, so a hard mod was needed (and was a must)


(Edit: Think that board only went to 1.8v in the bios, so I had a hard vcore mod as well)
 
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