subwoofer question

[xtkxhom3r]

ok so i have a jbl psw-d112 subwoofer and its great for movies and all but its just not enough for hip hop/rap music so i want something better...

i have 2 of these bad boys laying around in my closet http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/CarAudioVideo/Subwoofers/Champion-Pro/TS-W3004SPL so i figured id get one and try to connect it to my jbl amp

i brought it down to 8 ohms by wiring it in series so i wouldnt damage my amp

it definitely sounded better than the stock jbl but it wasnt nearly as loud my guess is because the amp is way to small for that huge subwoofer

so now im looking for a new hometheater subwoofer amp.

[ratbuddy]

What kind of box do you have the sub in? How much cash ya got?

[Wicked Klown]

You could go with say two of these, (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-808)one hooked to each voice coil.

[xtkxhom3r]

the box i have is the original one that the jbl came in its a pretty big box

and damn i didnt realize amps were going to be that expensive :( those would be ideal wicked klown but i dont have that kind of money to blow on a amp lol... i guess im going to have to go with a smaller driver...

i have another pioneer sub that is 1000w max and 400 rms and ill just get a single 500w amp....

[EarthDog]

Velodyne

Sunfire

etc etc

[ratbuddy]

the box i have is the original one that the jbl came in its a pretty big box

and damn i didnt realize amps were going to be that expensive :( those would be ideal wicked klown but i dont have that kind of money to blow on a amp lol... i guess im going to have to go with a smaller driver...

i have another pioneer sub that is 1000w max and 400 rms and ill just get a single 500w amp....

Pay more attention to how many clean watts you're gonna deliver to the driver, rather than the wattage ratings. Doubling amp power gives you another 3db. Not much. Going from a 500 watt amp to a 1000 watt amp isn't going to be that much louder, and a cheap 1000 watt amp probably delivers much less real power than an honestly rated 500 watter anyway.

If you hook up a cheap '500w' amp to that 1000/400 sub, and end up driving the amp into clipping, it's going to kill the sub quickly, even though it seems to be within the wattage specs.

If I was on a budget, I'd probably go with something like http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=245-465&ctab=1#Tabs and run it bridged. It'll spank the daylights out of one of those under-$200 Pyle '3000w' amps.

[scoobydoo]

So what your gonna want to do is....

1. Build a properly low tuned ported or vented box for the subs. Box is very important, you can't just slap them in a box and expect them to sound good. Any decent shop can read the T/S of the subs and design a box for them.

2. Get one of the plate amps recommended above. Just cause the RMS of the subs is 1000 watts each doesn't mean you have to give them that much. 500 watts each will be extremely loud in the right box and thee subs will bottom out before the amp clips.

3. Each sub is 4ohm DVC so wire each subs coils in parallel so each sub is basically a single 2ohm. After that wire the subs in series so the amp sees a mono 4ohm final load.

While Pioneer aren't the best subs, done properly you could **** off the whole neighborhood with those subs.

[xtkxhom3r]

Pay more attention to how many clean watts you're gonna deliver to the driver, rather than the wattage ratings. Doubling amp power gives you another 3db. Not much. Going from a 500 watt amp to a 1000 watt amp isn't going to be that much louder, and a cheap 1000 watt amp probably delivers much less real power than an honestly rated 500 watter anyway.

If you hook up a cheap '500w' amp to that 1000/400 sub, and end up driving the amp into clipping, it's going to kill the sub quickly, even though it seems to be within the wattage specs.

If I was on a budget, I'd probably go with something like http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=245-465&ctab=1#Tabs and run it bridged. It'll spank the daylights out of one of those under-$200 Pyle '3000w' amps.

that amp looks like winner to me i wish it was a little bit bigger but for the price ill take it! now i just gotta get a box built for one of these subs... im not going to install both i dont know where i would put 2 huge subwoofer enclosures... these subs need a big box... thanks for the help you guys i knew some one here would be able to help me lol...

[scoobydoo]

Be aware that amp uses xlr low level inputs, not standard RCA so you will need to get adapters as well as a splitter to hook it to you receiver sub out.

FYI you wouldn't need two enclosures, just one, but yes it would be large with both subs.

[xtkxhom3r]

Be aware that amp uses xlr low level inputs, not standard RCA so you will need to get adapters as well as a splitter to hook it to you receiver sub out.

FYI you wouldn't need two enclosures, just one, but yes it would be large with both subs.

do you know exactly what adapter and splitter i need? thanks for pointing that out btw i would have been clueless when the amp got here lol:D

[scoobydoo]

Two of these

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10244&cs_id=1024404&p_id=4776&seq=1&format=2

One of these

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021803&p_id=663&seq=1&format=2

If you are going to bridge the amp you may only need one RCA->XLR if you only need to use one input on the amp, but I would buy both just in case you want to use it as a stereo amp later on

Pro amps provide a good amount of power for the price, but be aware the amp has fans for cooling which will probably be easy to hear during quiet movie parts, which may or may not be annoying to you.

I for one hate fan noise while watching a movie.

[xtkxhom3r]

why the Y though? the sw out on a amp is only one plug...

[scoobydoo]

why the Y though? the sw out on a amp is only one plug...

To split the mono sub out to left/right

By bridging the amp you will be using the left and right outputs so you may need to send a signal to the left and right inputs

However as I mentioned some amps can use a single input when bridged(usually the left) but I am not sure that amp does that so I linked the splitter

[ratbuddy]

Actually.. Mmmm, http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=248-746

100% perfect for your needs, after you get the connectors all set up. 1000w RMS bridged into 8 ohms like you'll be running it.

The only catch is it's a 1 year warranty compared to a 3 year no-fault warranty on the Crown.

[xtkxhom3r]

thanks for the help scoobydoo

and wow that amp is prefect ratbuddy... to bad it doesnt look nearly as nice as the crown... and as for the warranty what are the chances of it giving out any time soon i mean its only one driver.... its not like im going to be pushing the amp to its limits right... i think ima pull the trigger on that one

[xtkxhom3r]

man after looking through the list of amps im so tempted to just get one of those 160 dollar 3000w pyle amps lol..

[scoobydoo]

1000 watts will kill that sub if you aren't careful. According to the subs theil small the Xmas is only 12mm and 1k watts in a ported box will certainly get the sub moving.

Remember movie LFE extends much lower than most music, sometimes as low as 10hz. 1k watts at 10hz and that coil will jump out of the gap or bottom out pretty quick.

Personally I would go with a sealed box with that much power, but a decent box tuned to 28-32hz with a sharp roll off below tuning would work. Or a 20hz subsonic filter just to be safe.

Wiith the Ep2000 you could add the second sub to the system later on without buying a new amp and headroom is always good to have.

[scoobydoo]

man after looking through the list of amps im so tempted to just get one of those 160 dollar 3000w pyle amps lol..

Skip the pyle, it is just that. Claims of 3k watts are most definately highly overrated

The Behringer is a better amp than the Pyle, but still slightly overrated.

The Crown is the best amp of the three and will give you rated power.

Also look at QSC, they make some nice amps as well

[ratbuddy]

Whatever you do, please please don't buy a Pyle. They just suck. Read the fine print, that "3000 watt" rating is 'max power' which means exactly nothing.

[xtkxhom3r]

true true... i think im just gonna stick with the ep2000...

although i did find a crown 402 on ebay for about the same price as the 202... the 402 delivers 900 watt's...

but the 3 year warranty doesnt sell me enough to turn down the ep2000

[Xtreme Barton]

what is the model of the jbl amp you have now ?

and what are your skills on box building ?

proper box and wiring could make a huge difference .. for the price of wood its a cheap way to go utilizing the equipment you have now

[xtkxhom3r]

the model is psw-d112

and im not very good with cutting wood lol for some reason every time i cut something it comes out uneven... i was just going to get it done somewhere..

[Wicked Klown]

Go to your local car audio shop and let them do it for you.

[Evilsizer]

just IMO, if you get the 1KW amp, go sealed on the subs with active EQ/Para EQ on the low end.

[xtkxhom3r]

why do you think i should go sealed instead of ported?

[Evilsizer]

with the right placement in your room and the EQ for the low end you lose. it will go just as low as the ported and not need as big a box to do. since you are getting a 1kw amp you have more then enough power for the added low end you add(if you add) with a Para EQ.

[Randyman...]

XMAX = 12mm. That will drastically limit your low frequency response in a sealed box (and make for some VERY loud pops when the coil smacks the backplate :) ).

I do like sealed in certain applications, I wouldn't say this is one of them ;)

:cool:

[Xtreme Barton]

must admit i read the original post wrong .. was thinking you had a stand alone jbl amp hooked to a sub ..

how loud do you want it ? just a simple upgrade or "dam thats is loud" ??

im thinking us enthusiast have a little different look on this but thinking simple and to the point i think you'd b happy with some sealed box's you could just go pick up .. problem would just lay with the amp setup i personally wouldnt wire it into the jbl ... my cheap ass would run a car amp for the simple fact im cheap and i have one laying in my closet .. but if you can find a decent amp then id say go ahead and get them 12's in a sealed box and enjoy ..

some nicely tuned slot ported boxes would be super bad axx .. am i talking smoothed from the iside out so you dont get that nasty sound when edges are left untouched .. im car audio nut so thats just my two penny's ..

[Evilsizer]

XMAX = 12mm. That will drastically limit your low frequency response in a sealed box (and make for some VERY loud pops when the coil smacks the backplate :) ).

I do like sealed in certain applications, I wouldn't say this is one of them ;)

:cool:

Depends on the person... if they like the sound of sealed bass better. useing EQ to bring up the bottom end would be the way to go. Plus if you modeled the setup with EQ in the model then the amount of RMS power it could take would be down. The max amount of RMS power would be shown along with where the Xmax limit is being reached at what HZ.

this thread/post here is a slightly modded 8in 740p (http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showpost.php?p=1522288&postcount=18)(12mm Xmax,150watts RMS). now they used a sub shaping network, this lowed its RMS wattage to 100watts. I say look at the FR curve and the F3 of such a driver in a .5cu ft box. rather impressive, no?

either way Randy, Xmax in EQ'd sealed to Ported box is going to be reached. All it is going to take is the right amount of power.

[xtkxhom3r]

Depends on the person... if they like the sound of sealed bass better. useing EQ to bring up the bottom end would be the way to go. Plus if you modeled the setup with EQ in the model then the amount of RMS power it could take would be down. The max amount of RMS power would be shown along with where the Xmax limit is being reached at what HZ.

this thread/post here is a slightly modded 8in 740p (http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showpost.php?p=1522288&postcount=18)(12mm Xmax,150watts RMS). now they used a sub shaping network, this lowed its RMS wattage to 100watts. I say look at the FR curve and the F3 of such a driver in a .5cu ft box. rather impressive, no?

either way Randy, Xmax in EQ'd sealed to Ported box is going to be reached. All it is going to take is the right amount of power.

holy **** that looks like !@#$%%^&*( to me wtf are you guys talking about haha... now i know how my girlfriend feels when i try to talk to her about computer stuff....

[Xtreme Barton]

hahaha .. thats funny