How good is your particular PSU?

[Hoot]

I see a lot of posts from people wanting to know is their particular make and model of PSU is any good. I have a simple "Gold Standard" for assessing a PSU. It involves looking at the specification sheet that came with it, is printed on the side, or is at the manufacturers Web Site. The specification that tells the most about your PSU is the Combined +3.3V & +5V maximum output power. First off, if your unit does not have that specification, it is instantly suspect. This is the equivalent to buying a car that does not have a specification of the Brake Horsepower for the engine.

So here's the magic numbers to compare to.

If your unit claims to be:

300W, the Combined 3.3 & 5V output should be 150-160W
350W, the Combined 3.3 & 5V output should be 180-185W
400W, the Combined 3.3 & 5V output should be 220-245W
500W, the Combined 3.3 & 5V output should be 270W

If your PSU falls short on this specification, you need to question what other specifications does it falls short on.

73, Hoot

[CrystalMethod]

It's been a while, what's the formula to get watts again? Is it "V*I" ? i'm usually working with just straight amperes, volts, and ohms, and rarely have to convert to watts. So, I still get the formulas mixed up.

[Hoot]

That's correct. P=IE. You can not simply do that math on the max values listed on the side of the PSU. If you did that for all the specs, you would see your total wattage way in excess of the PSU specification. Those four maximum current specifications are based upon not drawing much, if any current from the other three outputs.

Keep in mind that if each output had its own dedicated components, all the way back to the AC plug, then the power consumed by one output would not impact the other three and the PSU would cost considerably more and be physically much larger. As it stands, in PSUs, the +3.3V, +5V and +12V share many components.

Metaphorically, think of the plumbing in your house. All the loads (spigots) share some common paths the further upstream you look. Just about everyone can relate to what happens when you are taking a hot shower and someone in the house flushes a toilet, or starts the washing machine.

PSUs behave the same way. Better PSUs use "larger pipes", so when you turn on one "spigot" it has less impact on what is reaching the other "spigots".

Hoot

[donny_paycheck]

I know some about electronics and I've done quite a bit of work on switching power supplies (high voltage) before so I was confused when drawing a lot off of the 5 volt leg drops it down and raises the 12 volt leg. I thought they were both regulated, as well as being independent of each other all the way back to the power transformer. This obviously isn't the case or else this wouldn't be happening. Anybody know why this is?

[Hoot]

It keeps the cost down.

Hoot

[TigerClaw]

only to see if I have understand (my english is not very good)

My Power Supply:

3.3 -- 15A
5 -- 32A

Watts: (3.3 x 15) + (5 x 32) = 210.5?

Is this correct?

[CrystalMethod]

I just wanted to know as a refresher. The only real way I'll be able to calculate how close I am to maxing my PSU's is to rig an ameter (<-- I know the spelling is off, it just looks wrong), to the PSU's an see how much they draw at full/peak load. Would saying "I haven't had a problem, with them so far", suffice? in order of my sig, these are the PSU's I'm using.

1- 300W Enermax
2- 300w Aopen
3- 235W PowerMan

[Hoot]

Results speak louder than specifications. If they are not giving you problems, then don't worry about it. The thread is mainly to help people choose a PSU when shopping around, or to evaluate whether the one they have is on the "suspect list" when they are experiencing an otherwise unexplainable problem.

Hoot

[Stick00]

well i just got a future power 400w.>>>> not sure on specs have to got to the site and chek....should be here tommorrow.I hope it works good . eheh

[Hoot]

I bought one as a backup. It's not very good. At core voltages above 1.95V the +5 in it starts to collapse. Not bad if you don't intend to overclock.

Hoot

[customrig]

mines pretty bad no name 350 watt

[ButcherUK]

Just got a quietpc.com 300W psu to replace my enermax (which is +0.6V on 5V and still at 4.78V), rated at 220W 3.3V&5V combined :D

[donny_paycheck]

The 550 watt Enermax (EG-651P-VE) I use keeps the +5v at 5.05 and +12v at 12.4-12.5 volts and it doesn't vary when I change the motherboard voltage settings either. Plus it puts out up to 24 amps on the 12v line so I can run an 80 watt TEC with it.

[Monaco]

According to the label on my Power Man 250watt PSU, it's combined 3.3 and 5v is 177watts.

Should I believe it? Seems pretty high for just a 250 watt PSU.

[Hoot]

You're right, that does seem odd. That leaves only 73 watts for the +12, -12 and -5. Either they are very conservative in their overall wattage rating or just didn't design that PSU to pump much power to the +12V. Bottom line is, if it works, don't sweat it.

Hoot

[eobard]

To paraphrase the #109th rule of Acquisition:

"A Cyberzone 300w power supply and an empty sack is worth the sack".

[ButcherUK]

BTW to people wondering.
Taking the 3.3V max amps and 5V max amps and multiplying then adding does not give 3.3V+5V combined power.
Here's an example, my enermax:
3.3V, 30A
5V, 32A
Gives 3.3*30+5*32 = 259W GREAT!
Or not so great, max is actually 160W. :p This means at 32A on the 5V you can't actually use any 3.3V power and still be within spec. :rolleyes:

[Hoot]

If your PSU falls short on this specification, you need to question what other specifications does it falls short on.

In case you have not gotten a PSU, or if you're planning on a new one, here is an excellent link to see the specs on many different brands of PSU.

http://www.pc-beratung.net/Download/Power.pdf

Hoot

[Starfoxer]

my 320W PSU is 3.5+5=160W peak output. this seems a bit lower
than i'd like.

[Ozzman]

Originally posted by Hoot
I bought one as a backup. It's not very good. At core voltages above 1.95V the +5 in it starts to collapse. Not bad if you don't intend to overclock.

Hoot

does this mean i should not even consider a vmod for my MOBO without a new PSU??

well that blows :( o well.. no cpu i guess would be better..

[Hoot]

Originally posted by Ozzman


does this mean i should not even consider a vmod for my MOBO without a new PSU??

well that blows :( o well.. no cpu i guess would be better..

That all depends. Why don't you share with us what PSU you have, IE Wattage and/or Make & Model.

Hoot

[lee]

succinct and to the point - thank you.............

[Joeteck]

I just got the Enermax 465. Specs are:

3.3v - 38A
5.0V - 44A
12V - 20A
-5v - 2A
-12 - 1A
+5Vsb - 2.2A

Combined 3.3 & 5v is 220Watts.

Total is 431Watts

- Joeteck

PS. This PSU looks cool too. Its polished Blue, with (2) gold fan guards & a variable fan control.

[hyperbob]

i just got a channel well 420w psu
its combined 3.3 and 5 power output is 245w
is that good?

[Hoot]

You bet it is! Assuming it delivers as promised, you won't have to worry about the PSU whimping out with any OC your system can handle.

Hoot

[Josh]

I couldn't agree with your post more Hoot. One thing that I would like to say is that amd.com keeps a lists of approved power supplies, and for some odd reason they follow the specs you gave quiet close:)

As overclockers we'll spend extra money for a board with the overclocking features, extra fans, huge case, thermal paste, and hsf that is so big it can be used as weapon, but for some reason we balk at spending a little on the most important thing that feeds those expensive components.

One more test that deserves to be mentioned is the weight test. If you can take your power supply and without using any strength lob it at a car with a hatchback and have the power supply go through the window, your power supply is of pretty decent quality.

[donny_paycheck]

Hah! Weight testing by throwing the PSU at a car window...nice!

For everyone looking to this thread for info I have some. I just got an Antec 400w PSU today (came in a new SX1040 case) and the +5v line is 5.05v and +12 is 12.15, which is awesome. The 550w Enermax that I have is just the same. Whatever my computer is doing the voltages never fluctuate, especially the +5 and +3.3.

[lonewolf1983]

i have an Aopen 250w psu
heres the specs:
3.3v=14A
5v=26A
12v=8A

3.3 + 5 = 145W max

heres what the voltages sit around

3.3v=3.26V
5v=4.84V
12v=11.92V

what do you think???

[Hoot]

With a Tbird 1400, it's amazing that it works at all. You really should consider investing in the future by getting a better PSU as your budget allows.

Hoot

[flounder43]

My new HEC 350Watt is nice. A solid 180W combined, 2 fans, and a good, heavy, quality feel.

It is amazing how much more a quality PSU weighs...

[lonewolf1983]

ive never had a problem with it
funny hey
i have -no- money for an upgrade
and here in australia the options are pretty limited
:(

[eobard]

Originally posted by lonewolf1983
i have an Aopen 250w psu
heres the specs:
3.3v=14A
5v=26A
12v=8A

3.3 + 5 = 145W max

heres what the voltages sit around

3.3v=3.26V
5v=4.84V
12v=11.92V

what do you think???

I think you dodged a bullet with that 5v line. If it drops even 1/100th of a volt lower you could have stability problems. If it's fine now under load then you don't have any problem as is but if you had a better supply with a stronger 5v line you could do a volt mod on the motherboard and get some more speed. I doubt your current psu could handle a volt mod with those stats.

[ButcherUK]

I ran with a psu (enermax 330) that sat at 4.48V 5V line for months without issues. Below 4.85V doesn't mean it'll crash just increased likelihood. Also I have the problem that I lose 0.2V from my motherboard; molex reads 5.08V, motherboard reads 4.88V... reason? Too far from ATX connector to psu and/or too small traces for required power.

[Hoot]

.2V drop is a lot to put up with. Consider the +5V mod entailed in the other sticky in this forum. It was also an article on the front page recently.

Hoot

[eobard]

Just how much negative impact can an overly lengthy ATX connector's cable have? My new Antec's wires going to the ATX connector are about 3 inches shorter than the old psu's wires. If I trimmed down my old psu's wires would that give better readings?

[Hoot]

With all those +5V wires in parallel from the PSU to the ATX connector, the voltage drop is a "drop in the bucket" compared to the drop across the ATX connector. With the long cables on the Antec PP-403, I measure something on the order of .05V as opposed to almost .20V across the ATX connector. Still, there is no reason not to shorten the +5V conductors. Good "butt splices" or solder splices should not impact the current carrying ability of the wires. Heck, maybe it will tidy up the inside of the case a little to boot.

Hoot

[eobard]

Originally posted by Hoot
With all those +5V wires in parallel from the PSU to the ATX connector, the voltage drop is a "drop in the bucket" compared to the drop across the ATX connector. With the long cables on the Antec PP-403, I measure something on the order of .05V as opposed to almost .20V across the ATX connector. Still, there is no reason not to shorten the +5V conductors. Good "butt splices" or solder splices should not impact the current carrying ability of the wires. Heck, maybe it will tidy up the inside of the case a little to boot.

Hoot

I was thinking if I do it at all I'll do it inside the psu by shortening the wire length where it's soldered to the circuit board, it'll look cleaner and... well it'll look cleaner. If I do it at all that is.

[flounder43]

Volts X Amps = Watts

However, the ratings are given independent of each other. Therefore, you cannot just add the 5 and 3.3 lines...

Good psu's will list the combined watt max.

[takiwa]

I guess the Enhance 300W that came with my Cheiftek case is good...
220W Combined +3.3 & +5
279W Combined +3.3 & +5 & +12

(that's what the sticker says, anyway...)

[ocean]

I know I'm beating the crap out of my psu, the question is :
By how much?
I gots an enermax 431 watt psu, claims to be 20a on the +12v rail. Both fans run all the time. ( I did away with the fan control)
+3.3v&+5v=220w
Here is how I'm killing it ( I think).
I'm running:

kk266 w/5volt mod (Thanks Hoot)
Athlon Axia 1.33 @ 1606mhz
156w pelt@12volts (off psu)
CDRW
CDR
30gb 7200rpm hd
sloppy
running 3.3 @ +10%

Question is: Where would I measure the amps while this thing is under load? (Running folding)
Oh yeah, it's watercooled but the radiator fan comes off another psu , and the pump is AC.

[ButcherUK]

To measure amps, disconnect all the lines for a voltage and put an ammeter in series with them ;) Not really practical sadly. :p

[donny_paycheck]

Originally posted by ButcherUK
To measure amps, disconnect all the lines for a voltage and put an ammeter in series with them ;) Not really practical sadly. :p

That raises a good point. It would be nice to see better hardware monitoring with the next form factor past ATX. The PSU could communicate with the motherboard via a small 2-conductor serial link in the power cable bunch and show how many amperes were being drawn on each line and what the percentage of full load was, as well as temperatures and AC line voltage, etc.

While they were at it, hopefully they'd finall fix the heinous inaccuracies that most in-socket thermistors have. :rolleyes:

[ocean]

So then , I check each power lead and then add all the amp readings for the total draw on the psu?To measure amps, disconnect all the lines for a voltage and put an ammeter in series with them Not really practical sadly. :eh?:

[donny_paycheck]

Originally posted by ocean
So then , I check each power lead and then add all the amp readings for the total draw on the psu?:eh?:

Correct. If you can do it, that's how it's done. Make sure you're not overloading the individual lines though.

[Yodums]

Errr Generic 300watt PSU:

3.3v = 14amp
5v = 30amp

Total watt together: 196... It does seem much better than recommend, although the 5v rail stinks :D

[Dissolved]

well i got the new 430w enermax psu... the blue model..
it totaly owns..
my voltages are always above what's needed and it looks awesome.. what more could you want for about 111 bucks :)

[Yodums]

Originally posted by Dissolved
well i got the new 430w enermax psu... the blue model..
it totaly owns..
my voltages are always above what's needed and it looks awesome.. what more could you want for about 111 bucks :)

Jeezes the 550 watt and 600 watt Enermax are that price in Canada.

[Dissolved]

Originally posted by Yodums


Jeezes the 550 watt and 600 watt Enermax are that price in Canada.

theres a 600watt?
and mines the newest Best model. thats why its more.

[Buk]

Let's look at the specs on a couple of readily available power supplies; an Enhance ENP-0730 and an Antec PP303X, both 300W supplies. Newegg lists these at $29.00 for the Enhance and $40 for the Antec (both plus shipping). Specs are as follows:
3.3v .........................(E) 28A......(A) 20A
5.0v ..............................30A...........30A
12.0v .............................15A..........15A
-12.0v ..........................0.8A.........0.8A
-5.0v ..............................0.3A.........0.5A
+5Vsb ............................2.0A.........2.0A
Combined +5v &+12v.........220W.......180W

The Antec is a highly rated PSU but the Enhance's specs look much better!

Now, how good is your voltage monitoring software? Do you trust MBM, Bios, a VOM? My mobo, a Shuttle AV40, gives me a lot of choices. Bios tells me that the 12v line is 12.8v, MBM (detects a SIS chip) tells me 13.43v, and an inexpensive digital VOM reads 12.13v (at an IDE plug). Which is correct?

I guess the whole point of this post is to question the validity of a lot of published specifications and measurements. How does one go about measuring the voltage supplied to your CPU to check if BIOS or MBM are measuring correctly? How do you check voltages other than +12 and +5 (available on the IDE connectors)? The power supplies I have gone into have all the 12v lines soldered to the same bus; i.e. there is only one 12v regulater so the 12v at the IDE connector is the same as the 12v to the mobo.

I'm not questioning anyone here personally, just the inability to get really good, accurate info on what is really going on. Ladies and gentlemen - your thoughts, please......

[Preachr46]

OK, her's mine; Leadman PowMax 300W
+3.3v=28A +5V=30A +12V=15A -5V=0.3A -12V=0.8A +5Vsb2.0A
Max +3.3/+5 wattage=180.

MBM5.1.2 reports the following under full load(folding);
+3.55 +4.92 +11.92

ASUS Probe reports the same exactly, so which do I rely on and is this a true reading? I don't have a way to really check it.

[HellWalker]

OK Hoot, so what are your top 3 recommended power supplies?

[Cooler666]

In my Aopen 300W power supply
my combined 3.3 & 5V output is 180W, I've been having stability problems though if i start modifying the voltage even a little, and my cooling is fine, do you think i need a better and bigger power supply?

[Malakai]

since ive been here in the forums, ive seen hundreds of "unexplainable" probs with peoples comps solved by a good quality psu. its pretty safe to say yes to that one. switching from my old 300w enlight to this 400w antec solved so many probs, its not even funny
-Malakai

[Hoot]

Originally posted by HellWalker
OK Hoot, so what are your top 3 recommended power supplies?

Do you want the best three, based on the link I referenced in the first page of this thread? What kind of system would my top three recommended power supplies be for? It matters a lot. Dual Athlon CPU systems have different needs as compared to single CPU systems. How far you intend to overclock is important, not to mention the number of HDD, CD and DVD drives. I won't even address using a peltier on a PC PSU. That's just bad plannng from the get-go.

The other issue is when a manufacturer is kind enough to pass along the specifications, are they honest? That is not a foregone conclusion. Some manufacturers flat out lie!They figure if someone has the ability to determine their specs are not correct, they can refund him his money. Meanwhile, the other 100 non-technical people who bought one don't have a clue.

Hoot

[HellWalker]

Thanks for the reply Hoot. What you say is true. There are many variables to consider.

You can see my system specs listed in my sig. I don't overclock much, more concerned with satbility. I was hoping my Antec 400w would be all I need if I decide to try and push my 1.8a up to 2400 or more.

[DanFraser]

I not long ago bought an Enermax 431W... I have never seen the 5v lower than 4.98, and that was running toast for 45mins...!

And talking of weight, its flippin heavy! Makes my case a right pain to move!

[Malakai]

Originally posted by HellWalker
Thanks for the reply Hoot. What you say is true. There are many variables to consider.

You can see my system specs listed in my sig. I don't overclock much, more concerned with satbility. I was hoping my Antec 400w would be all I need if I decide to try and push my 1.8a up to 2400 or more.
oh yes, the antec 400watter will do JUST FINE.
-Malakai

[jdmcnudgent]

hows mine?

[Malakai]

my psu fan is going, DAMMIT its annoying as hell
-Malakai

[Wookie8662]

Originally posted by Malakai
my psu fan is going, DAMMIT its annoying as hell
-Malakai

Most PSU fans are very easy to replace.
They are mounted very similar, if not exactly like a case fan.
You can buy a new one, steal one from another case/PSU, lots of options here.
If strapped for cash, you can even remove the fan and oil the bearings (usually under the sticker with the name on it). The oiling will help a little, but, if its noisy now, its a sure sign that it is on its last legs.

You might need to cut/splice the power wires for the fan.
I just used a couple small butt connectors, even small wire nuts should be ok to use.

Just two things to be wary of, try not to touch anything else in the PSU but the fan and fan wires, and make sure the wiring for the fan is tucked/secured inside the PSU. Dont need the wires you spliced getting into the fan.

[nikhsub1]

Originally posted by Hoot
So here's the magic numbers to compare to.

If your unit claims to be:

300W, the Combined 3.3 & 5V output should be 150-160W
350W, the Combined 3.3 & 5V output should be 180-185W
400W, the Combined 3.3 & 5V output should be 220-245W
500W, the Combined 3.3 & 5V output should be 270W
Hoot

Uhhh, I just picked up the "Rolls Royce" of PSU's, PC Power & Cooling Turbo 450, got it from a member here for a GREAT price! This IS the king of all PSU's with the tightest tolerances of any PSU. My 3.3 & 5V are: 300W!!!

OK, I'm done bragging:p

[Grantman]

Why has no one mentioned the percentage of regulation on each line? How "Clean" is the voltage and how much it varies while in use?

Certain Power Supplies by "Enermax" and "Antec" have up to 5-7% regulation.

Certain Power Supplies by "PC Power and Cooling" have up to 1% regulation. Of course you'll pay more for "PC Power and Cooling" supplies than the "Antec" or "Enermax" ones.

Does anyone know of any other companies that make power supplies that have less than 1% regulation?

[nikhsub1]

Originally posted by Grantman
Why has no one mentioned the percentage of regulation on each line? How "Clean" is the voltage and how much it varies while in use?

Certain Power Supplies by "Enermax" and "Antec" have up to 5-7% regulation.

Certain Power Supplies by "PC Power and Cooling" have up to 1% regulation. Of course you'll pay more for "PC Power and Cooling" supplies than the "Antec" or "Enermax" ones.

Does anyone know of any other companies that make power supplies that have less than 1% regulation?

I think only PC Power & Cooling is the only one, my antecs and enermax's had big swings.

[Malakai]

cmon, u really cant compare Antec and Enermax. I dont know how Enermax got such a good rep, they are cheap PSU's.
if u have the money, PC power and cooling are legendary at Maximum PC.
-Malakai

[Focker]

My Powerman 300 claims that the +3.3V & +5V = 200W max. This is way higher than the reccomended(150-160). Is this good or bad?

[RZA]

Hail guys. As far as I've understood, PC Power and Cooling absolutely rules, and Antec is also a big deal. But my question is: what can I buy for aroud 50 bucks? I need some 300-350Wt stuff for my Athlon 1600+. Maybe you can give ma a piece of advice? I'm sorry I can't examin those labels on PSUs myself (cause I'm in Ukraine, and we here have only cheap Chinese bull****), so PLEASE tell whether there is something suitable for me to buy in USA (my friend will buy, so I just gotta give him the name of the PSU)?

THANX in advance.

[Grantman]

I say if it is cost that is your concern go with the Antec supply.

However, I don't think you can get one of their higher quality ones for that price.

PC Power and Cooling is way out of the ball park if $50 bucks is your limit.

Read this page at PC Power and Cooling to access your needs:

http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/maxpc/index_cases.htm

or

http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/products/power_supplies/insidestory/index.htm

[RZA]

Thanks for your response, but it is not exactly what I need. I don't want to evaluate my hardware - I have loads of stuff in my case, so I do know I need a decent PSU. My problem is - is there a DECENT 300-350W PSU for around $50? I've been looking for a while at Antecs, Sparkles, Enermaxes - but what's the best solution of the mid-range PSUs?

P.S. I understand there is no exact solution, but maybe you can give your piece of advice...

Again,thanks in advance for any response.

[The Spyder]

I like my $55 300w amptron redundant cooling powersupply- its eqivilant to the enermax- i picked it up localy-
I use an enermax 465- im my amd-
A antec 303xp in my dual pIII 1gig
A Nspire 300w in my dual PIII 450
A Amptron 300w in my PIII733

Spyder

[eobard]

Hi Spyder. :)

[RZA]

According to what I've read, Codegen PSUs are NOT good. Look what I've got (all are 250-watters):

1) 3,33 - 5,08 - 12,59 (!) - still OK despite great 12V
2) 3,12 - 5,23 - 12,32 - periodical reboots (is it a reason?)
3) 3,37 - 5,08 - 12,27

All three of them tend to have great 12V. I think it's bad?

[xvi3tsoljahx]

is a L&C ATX 350 decent power supply? I have one and i really don't want to go out and buy an other one. Its not for ocing through just for building a new system 2hd 1dvd 1 burner floppy and power 3 fans 80mm and the etc etc.... My way of things is if it works stick with it.

[theamdkid]

I got a 340 watt PS its a HPC-340-101 highpower.is it any good?Here is the website for it www.highpowersupply.com/product-ps-hpc340101.htm#sp

[phillyTIM]

the Antec PP303x that came with my Antec 1030sx soho case is the best 300w out there!

[Daovonnaex]

I own a PC Power and Cooling Turbo-Cool ATX 600, which is probably the best ATX PSU in the industry. It's continuous output is 500w, it's incredibly stable (very little voltage deviation), has a built-in line conditioner, a PFC circuit, and an incredibly strong 5v rail (70 amperes!).

[Zag0r]

I'm looking at an Enermax EG365P-VE 350W.
The 3.3v min/max is 0-32A, 5v is 8-32A.

3.3*32 + 5*32 = 265?
That right?

[Zag0r]

The Leadman 6100D 400W has its spec listed as such:
3.3v 35A
5v 40A
= 315W?

[packratbob]

i have a codegen 450watt with 240watt5+3.3 volt combined.
has neone one heard of this brand?? i dont know why my 5 volt line is still 4.87 though?? help anyone?

[Penguin4x4]

I won't be using one anytime soon, but I have seen that Swiftech has released a new waterblock with a built in 226W TEC.( MCW462-UHT)On Cooltechnica.com, they advertise that this monster goes great with their Mean Well S-320-12 PSU. Is it even remotely possible to plug this thing into a system's PSU +12v output? If it isn't, why the heck would someone buy it if they cant power it?:confused:
________
Bmw 3/20 History (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_3/20)

[RoadWarrior]

Hmmmm, who can't do math here? Me or the manufacturers.

+3.3 @ 14A = 46.2W
+5 @ 30A = 150W
total = 196.2W
Rated combined Max of 3.3 and 5 on PSU = 160W

Also
+12 @ 10A = 120W
-12 @ 0.5A=6W
-5 @ 0.5A = 2.5W
5VSB @1.5A = 7.5W

So that's a total of 332.2W by my reckoning, unless I take their rating of 160W max and then it's 296W, hmmm, so am I getting an extra 32.2W for my money or am I being shorted 4W ?????
This is by the way, a generic "AMD recommended" ( Dunno whether by name or just by output specs) supply that came in my el cheapo grande case by Sunny Technologies Co Ltd, CWT ATX-300 ATX, (Come to think of it I think I might have an old AT supply from them that's been working a few years, good sign I guess)

Anyway, I wouldn't be all that concerned, but my 3.3V line seems real low, though it's the same whether I run the CPU at 800Mhz or 1.6Ghz, it's at 3.175 according to the hardware health monitor. Everything reads a little low, 5V is 4.89 12 is 11.92, that's not enough to bother me, but there's less tolerance in the 3.3 line isn't there???? I have stability problems with my memory I think, I am wondering if it's because of this low voltage, and whether I should attempt to tweak it or not.
What affects the rated combined max???? Is it heat related??? I mean is 160 the safe max for the thermal specs, so if I put a high CFM fan in it I might get all 196??? Or is some SCR going to go pop if I pull all 14A and 30A?

Anyhoo, quite pleased to see that by the specs I seem to have a reasonable PSU, I could use an education on the 3.3V line issue though.


Road Warrior

Edit: Aaaaaaargh! Found this at Anandtech.... http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1220&p=4
That's my case, more or less, mine was sans fan mods though, Anand sure didn't like the PSU though it was the 250Watter, but look at the ratings, they are like identical to this one apart from 8A on 12V and 25A on 5A, seems like this might just be a tuned up 250 Watt, or worse. Shame he didn't say WHY it was unstable what voltages were crazy etc. :(

[RoadWarrior]

Okay so I thought my voltages were fairly stable, MISTAKE! I was looking at how the voltages changed when I put the FSB up and when I used the harddrive heavily, not a flicker. But I go and run Toast, and DAMNIT my 5V line DIVES TO 4.4V, that is freakin' nasty! The 12V line climbs half a volt at the same time, say the CPU is drawing 80W full load (Overestimate, probably just under 70), with 80% conversion efficiency from the 5V line that's 100W , Toast doesn't load anything else (like a CD or HDD) so I should have damn near 50W left on that line, drives these days only want about 5W each max from 5V. I thought the GPU derived everything off the 3.3V line.

Anyway, looks like I've got a really crappy PSU here, if I return everything to stock and it dips under 4.75 when running Toast, do you think I've got a case for RMA because this case/PSU was recommended as suitable by the people who sold me everything else?

Road Warrior

edit: By the way, I looked up the PSU at the manufacturers website and I saw a note that 300W is "Safety rating only" on that PSU, now that seems to say to me that you can draw 300W and you won't burn your house down, but don't expect it to deliver that on a regular basis.

[wiresman]

I have noticed in MBM and My PC Health in BIOS reflect the same voltage.
Here are the voltages I have seen, IM curious if it is normal or if it will cause me problems, I cant OC by pushing the FSB past 144.

+3.3 @ 3.26-3.28
+5 @ 4.96-4.98
-5 @ -5.04
+12 @ 11.92
-12 @-11.86--11.94 .....This is the one that caught my eye.

What will this affect?
What uses the -12V? I havent really fooled with the PSU since it should still be under warranty. I put it 2gether this past April.
Everything came from NewEgg.
Thanks in advance, Wires...
:beer:

[pirate252]

Originally posted by lonewolf1983
i have an Aopen 250w psu
heres the specs:
3.3v=14A
5v=26A
12v=8A

3.3 + 5 = 145W max

heres what the voltages sit around

3.3v=3.26V
5v=4.84V
12v=11.92V

what do you think???



Dang you are lucky that this machine even runs without catching on fire, look at those voltage lags, that has to be creating so much more heat in ur psu, get a bigger one before somthing bad happens.


Matt

[chaosdriven]

Hoot,

Thanks for starting this very educational thread. Based on the information presented I just purchased the 350 sparkle PS at newegg. Combined 3.3/5v rating of 220W! :)

Originally posted by Hoot


So here's the magic numbers to compare to.

If your unit claims to be:

300W, the Combined 3.3 & 5V output should be 150-160W
350W, the Combined 3.3 & 5V output should be 180-185W
400W, the Combined 3.3 & 5V output should be 220-245W
500W, the Combined 3.3 & 5V output should be 270W

If your PSU falls short on this specification, you need to question what other specifications does it falls short on.

73, Hoot

[breez]

So what is a good combined power for 250W PSUs? My Macase 250W PSU shows 125W max for +5V and +3.3V.

+3.3V 15A
+5V 25A
+5VSB 1.5A
+12V 10A
-5V 0.5A
-12V 0.5A

Good or bad?

[Penguin4x4]

Looking at the chart, 250W should be around 110-137 +3.3 and +5 combined

[Malakai]

250 watts really is not powerful enough for today's high consumption systems.

350-400 IMO is a must.

[breez]

Originally posted by Malakai
250 watts really is not powerful enough for today's high consumption systems.

350-400 IMO is a must.

You're right, but my system isn't exactly a "todays high consumption system".

System:

Celeron 791MHz
256MB SDRAM
Powermagic Radeon 8500LE 64MB

[Penguin4x4]

FAOI: you need at least a 300W PS to run a GF4 Ti Card.

[larva]

Originally posted by phillyTIM
the Antec PP303x that came with my Antec 1030sx soho case is the best 300w out there!

I have a SX830 that came with the PP303x. It was fine with my P3, but did not run my P4 1.6a, even with just a GF3-Ti200. It worked for a few days, but soon the hardware monitoring of my Asus mb began screaming every time you opened or resized a window. Just the increased current draw from the video card drawing a window pushed it over the edge, and the sagging voltage triggered the alarm.

I replaced it with Sparkle ATX-300GT power supply, and all is well. The Sparkle weighs about twice what the Antec does... The PP303x is a el cheapo PS designed to bring the total cost of the cases down. It is rated at but 160W on the 3.3+5V, and failed miserably to run my machine. The Sparkle is rated at 175W 3.3+5V on the sticker, with Sparkle's website listing 200W (?). Just by picking them up you can tell a huge difference exists.

I have since gone to a Ti4400, and the Sparkle continues to run great with stable in-spec voltages. Bear in mind that this PS costs but $23 at the wholesale level. I may upgrade to the 350W Sparkle just to be safe, but it does not appear necessary for my application. The true power series from Antec may be good, but the standard Antec power supplies are weak weak weak.

Sparkle is the truth in power supplies, especially if you know what they really cost. A 350W Sparkle (220W 3.3+5V) costs me less than 50 bucks, and I guarantee it will outperform any supply at it's cost level, and likely even 99% of the 400W units being sold for 80-100 bucks.

regards,
larva

[SuperMan0234]

Im still confused on how to get the right numbers.
my specs:
300watt generic
3.3-14a
5.0-30a
is mine good, my numbers are always low, 3.3-3.19, 5.0-4.95. Also, off-topic, how do i make it so my comp specs show up at the bottom when i post?

[james.miller]

no name power suply 350w

3.3v 14amps
5v 25amps


171watts combined.hmmm.crap

i wondered why my 5v line was sitting at 4.6 so i checked the usb power ussage. WTF??????? my scanner and gamepad pull 10amps!!

[eobard]

Originally posted by SuperMan0234
Im still confused on how to get the right numbers.
my specs:
300watt generic
3.3-14a
5.0-30a
is mine good, my numbers are always low, 3.3-3.19, 5.0-4.95. Also, off-topic, how do i make it so my comp specs show up at the bottom when i post?

1) 4.95 isn't too bad for the 5v line. I've had my machine run stable with 4.85v before. As long as it stays at at least 4.90v you're probably safe.

2) At the top of the page click on "User CP". Then at the top of that page click on "Edit Profile". Then scroll down the page to the area marked "Signature" and put in what you want, but be warned, 10 lines of info (default height) is the limit. Not everyone follows it, but those who don't wind up getting a visit from the Sig Nazi.

[BuccKevin]

Well here's my power supply. I really dont know whether it's 525W, 300W, 550W, or 650W. I haven't really looked into it. It's good enough I think. Wanna give me info on this?


Is this OK?

3.3V switches between 3.26 / 3.28 whether idle or under load

12V 12.27 = idle 12.34 = load

5V 4.97 = idle 4.93 = load

Other than the 3.3, everything stays the same.

[SuperMan0234]

Ive decided to go with an antec, i hear they r good. They got a 400watt one over at newegg for just 63 bucks, 68 total with shipping. Thanx for all your help.

[larrymoencurly]

Lotsa power supply reviews here (http://terasan.okiraku-pc.net/dengen), but they're all in Japanese, and Babelfish gives some wierd translations, "In rabbit angle deca" and "abuse mortar of stupor?" being two examples.

One of the pages there has graphs of +12v outputs (http://terasan.okiraku-pc.net/dengen/tester/index.html), and it seems that Antec TruePower and PC Power & Cooling and some wierd brands, Wind and Ablecom, performed best, but none of the other supplies really varied excessively (in my nonexpert opinion). I don't know why only the +12v outputs are graphed and not the other voltages.

[Element-Xero]

my sparkle 400w puts out 235

quality!

[shmall]

Originally posted by Joeteck
I just got the Enermax 465. Specs are:

3.3v - 38A
5.0V - 44A
12V - 20A
-5v - 2A
-12 - 1A
+5Vsb - 2.2A

Combined 3.3 & 5v is 220Watts.

Total is 431Watts

- Joeteck

PS. This PSU looks cool too. Its polished Blue, with (2) gold fan guards & a variable fan control.


I have tried one of those, but it ended volting less than my older enermax 350W???
5V line would drop to 4.81V, where as my older 350W didn't get below 4.86V....??

Makes no sense???

Gone back to my older one for now..........

Simon.

[wildfrogman]

Hey my PS is a delta 300 watt rated at 245 watts on the 3.3 and 5v. My system is a 1.1ghz duronOC to like 1.3ghz, gf2 gts vid card, dvd, cdrw, lots of pci cards etc and Mbm5 says ave of 5v is 4.80, high is 4.87 and low is 4.76....runs folding at home 24/7 for about 2~3 days in win98se and hard gaming,dvd playing and such. Just got a multimeter checked it and 5v rail when mbm or bios says 4.8v its actually right on or a tiny bit above 5v like 5.05v so mbm5 could be lying to you. Ohwell if its stable thats always good also. Anybody have these delta 300 watt PS on a athlonXP and heavily overclocked?

[NCtramp]

I want to add my PSU's story from the last 2 months. I bought an ENERMAX EG465P-VE(FC) 9 months ago with an abit mobo. Fpr some reason the mobo burned out and the psu stank burned. Since the psu was under warranty I maild ti back to Powerup, Inc. in Houston. They claimed the psu was very fine and nothing wrong with it & wanted $47 before they return it to me. I contacted the distributor and they said after numoreous calls that they would make good, but i still have not seen a psu from them:) Meanwhile Im using and generic 350w which gives me lousy v readings. After reading thru endless forums I ordered a 425 ATX/ATX12V psu from pc & cooling. On arrival this psu was dead and it also seem to be used looking, it was very scratched up, i rma it back to pc & cooling. I'm still waiting for my money to be credited back to my account it's been 2 weeks. I searched the forums again and came up with Topower Alu 530W 3fans. After arrival & install the pc was doing nothing. I had another dead psu. I called them & they are mailing me another one. So I'm back to the geric 350w. I guess that this one will be my fate. I'm at a point that no matter how much you pay for a psu It's hit and miss:) I wonder if any body has a psu story that can top mine... I like to hear it

I will post what i end up and what readings i will get:)

[shmall]

Just got an Antec True power 480W PSU and now the 5V line never goes below 5.03V, and no more lock ups........ thats the last enermax I will ever own....


Simon.

[wildfrogman]

What are your system specs and what webisites are you buying these "dead" powersuplies as it seems you either have really bad luck, are on a list to get refurbs that dont work or your Abit board is really picky. It just seems pretty odd to go through that many power supplies. Do you have a UPS? I have heard alot of peoples systems getting killed from spikes and brown outs and powersurges. Also possibly if you can find a friend or radio shack that has an ampmeter to see how many amps you draw and calculate how many amps are being drawn on the same curcuit your computer is on. Whatever it is it really sounds odd and hope you can find out what is the problem soon. Oh and dont belive mbm5 voltage readings without using a multimeter as it can be way off. My delta 300 watt from directron seems to work just fine and was dirt cheap too.

[NCtramp]

My system :

Lian-li PC70
Tb 1.4 fsb 166
2x 512 Munshkin PC2700 (test error free with memtest86)
Thermalright SL-800 Mechantronic 80mm
Shuttele AK35GT2
PSU 350w (generic) waiting for Enermax 431w or Topower 520w (which even ups delivers first:)
WD 120 GB 7200 JB & WD 40 GB 7200
Plextor 16/1040/A
Pioneer DVD (region free)
Elsa GF3
Matrox pci (dual monitor)
usb2 pci
fire wire pci
nic & sound onboard

temp:

+12 V= .12.10 v

+5V = +4.85V

+3.24

-12V = -11.87V

-5V = -.505V

core 1.78

I hope i can soon report better +5V temps and avoid the random reboots:)

[yogi99]

Does anyone on this forum know what psu would be best for my Vapochill. It has killed 2 psu's in the past 6 months.

I am just burying an Enermax 465 WHISPER ....JUNK

I have ordered a 550 watt Antec truepower.

I think I may have to bite the bullet and look at PC Power and Cooling's newer PFC Turbo Cool


Anyone have a Vapochill with a terrific psu??

[frodoski]

My PSU is A1 Electronics 400 watt model, +3.3v and +5v rail have a combined rating of 240 watts. All voltages according to MBM5 sampling at a rate of second are stable. 3.3v = 3.39 avg. 5v = 5.18.

[Rick Park]

Don't know if this has ever been posted but I ran across this re evaluating PS capacity. Lots of other good info about PS design, terminology, voltages etc.

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/sup/output.htm

[Penguin4x4]

www.pcguides.com and http://users.erols.com/chare/main.htm

[nihili]

Just picked up a NMB Technologies it002a430wsw 430W power supply. It states that it has no cross regulation or combined load limit. So I'm guessing I can just add the 3.3 and 5V lines? Is that right? If so, it's

3.3V*45.0A + 5V*27.0A = 283.5W

From the original chart, that should be pretty good. :eek:

I'll let you know how it holds up as soon as I get it converted to ATX. It's a specialized PSU for one of the TYAN dual boards, so I've got to rearrange the wires and find a spare ATX connecter for it.

nihili

[hallowen]

PC POWER & COOLING Turbo-Cool PSU with External adjustments(You have to order this as an Option) are the best AND COST THE MOST!($200+!)

I'm using their TURBO-COOL 475 ATX-PFC in my system.

I Guess YGWYPF!

[nihili]

Well, the NMB power supply seems to be great. My rails are rock solid. The PFC really seems to help. I posted the details of the conversion and performance in
http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=119294 if you're interested.

All in all I'd say it was well worth the $10 I spent. ;)

nihili

[Yodums]

Antec 400watt PP412X is amazing. The adjustable pots make this PSU godlike. It's obviously very good in performance and in terms of quality it's excellent, and very reliable. The bad stuff about it is the lenght of the ATX Connector to the board. It's not that long and it may have some trouble reaching a motherboard if say you're using a server case and the power supply is all the way at the bottom, in my case (Antec SX1200), the PSU is right above the connector. Also there aren't alot of 12v connectors as there was on the Enermax and they aren't as long. There's no intake fan so the power supply does get hot since no cool intake is getting in there, only exhaust.

If Enermax would slice their ATX Connectors in half or something, they would get a heck of a increase in performance.

The Antec PP412X is awsome, right now my voltages are 5.05v/12.34 at load (Prime 95 Torture Test). I have adjusted the pots on both 5/12v and 3v (The Smart power 5 and 12v share the lines, the True Power don't). The power supply combined 3 and 5.5v is 245watts.

For anyone buying the PSU, here are some instructions on how to adjust the pots:

http://www.3dxtreme.org/psumod.shtml

Be very careful and increase it in small increments as this is a power supply we're talking about.

Yodums

[RoadWarrior]

Update to my PSU experiences, replaced the Sunny Tech with a an Antec True Power 430 and all the voltages are rock solid now, under instantaneaous extreme load they flicker down a figure on the second decimal place of the motherboard voltage measurement (like that's probably accurate to even half a percent anyway :rolleyes: ) for a brief moment. But that's all. The readings are a little low on the motherboard, but fine on the drive connectors, and have improved by 0.05V since installation, lending evidence to support the theory that Antec PSUs "burn in" over time. I do suspect that the motherboard power conversion and distribution is on the weak side and will probably fit some heatsinks, as shown in a recent front page article, to the regulators on the board. I was kinda toying with this idea a while back, but didn't want to fiddle with it for nothing, so was pleased to see that positive results can be achieved with that type of mod.

My only complaint about this PSU is the connectors are way too long! :D I've got a serious rats nest going on at the top of my mid tower. So this PSU would probably be good for anyone with a full tower in that department.
Road Warrior's RW(TM)* rating 93%

*Road Warrior's Recommend-a-Ware rating and RW symbol are trademark 2002, Road Warrior ;)

Road (I like to see my own handle a lot) Warrior

[grubazaba]

I have a single fan Tsunami LC-A300ATX (amd and intel p4 rated)

3.3V x 20A
5V x 30A
[216]
12 x 10A
[336]

5VSB x 2A
-5V x 0.5A
-12 x 0.8A

My question is how much can this thing take?

It has 2 main 12V cables - one has two 12v pins, other has two 12v pins + floppy pwr). There is ATX mobo pwr + 2 others i don't know about (one is 6wire flat end - other is 4wire square end) ??

maincable one has:

1. hard-drive
2. 30mm hard-drive cooler fan
3. Voodoo 5
4. 2 x 40mm Tennmax v3 stealth fighter fans
5. 45 cfm exhaust blower

maincable two has:

1. DVD
2. CDRW
3. 30mm hard-drive cooler fan
4. floppy disk

motherboard has 50mm HS fan + 80mm case fan
also: usb powered zip and scanner

A) am i about to die? how much can 300W take?
B) is one cable more powerful than the other?
C) what are those other 2 connectors?

[RoadWarrior]

Originally posted by Hoot
This is the equivalent to buying a car that does not have a specification of the Brake Horsepower for the engine.


Bwaaaahhaaaaa!!!! :D :D :D

Just bust out laughing when I suddenly thought, that the only car in the world that is sold without a BHP rating for it's engine is.......

A Rolls Royce!!

heh.
It's true, you ask, they say "Ample power Sir, ample" or words to that effect.

I guess that's not quite the point yer tryna make there Hoot :D

(clever jerk grin)

Road Warrior

[Gregory_WE]

Am I doing this right?

Antec True 430W

+5V - 36A
+3.3V - 28A

~270?

[DipStickTony]

http://65.119.30.174/productimage/17-154-007-02.JPG

Theres my power supply...its rated as 450 watts, this thing is VERY heavy too...the inside has a huge black heatsink, I replaced my old raidmax 300w that came with my case, and the allied power supply was about 3 times heavier. I think its a great power supply for the money, dual fans and all aluminum too.

Get it at newegg for 41.00
Link (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=58&manufactory=1601&DEPA=1&sortby=14&order=1)

[ChadP]

The Allied is actually related to Deer... could it be that they finally built a decent unit? ;) Seriously we have some 4yr old L&C 250-300W units here that still work, obviously made of higher quailty than regular Deer garbage... there are actually cpu-side intake vents on them.

LC-A300ATX is also Deer-related... we have some e-Safe ones here with that PN and they look like typical lightweight no-CPU-side-vent Deer units. In other words, be very careful with it, replace it on the first sign of trouble, if not sooner IMO.

One of my favorite PSU tests is to check for vents and/or fan on the CPU side of the PSU. All the good power supply models have this, and most Deer-related and most chintsy no-names don't.

[DipStickTony]

Well this power supply doesnt have cpu side vents :(. But it does have an extra fan on the back of the ps, and vents on the back but none on the cpu side.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally posted by DipStickTony


Theres my power supply...its rated as 450 watts, this thing is VERY heavy too...the inside has a huge black heatsink, I replaced my old raidmax 300w that came with my case, and the allied power supply was about 3 times heavier. I think its a great power supply for the money, dual fans and all aluminum too.

Get it at newegg for 41.00
Link (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=58&manufactory=1601&DEPA=1&sortby=14&order=1)

I have an Allied 400ATX. :) Very nice PSU. Big and heavy. But my +5V never goes below +4.96V and +12V stays at +12.52. :):):) :) :burn:

[jimmystoba]

What kind of problems will a poor PSU give?

[Samoyed]

The power supply mystery! I dont know what the symptoms of a crappy PS are and no one else seems to be able to definitively define these symptoms.

I know mine is a no name Red Chinese pc of shi* that is alleged to be 400 watts however it weighs about as much as an empty beer can so I suspect it blows. Seems to work ok. I think an idiots guide to PS quality would be to see how heavy it is. Heavier capacitors, sinks wires etc.. probaby mean a better supply.

[Samoyed]

Well I replaced my generic PS with one from Comp USA Rated at 400 watts. The old one was allegedly 400 watts as well.

Here are the results of some informal research. The cheap PS was MUCH lighter than the new one. I assume that is because of better and heavier components. I also compared the PSs at the store to each other. The "Generic" PS were all lighter than the Antecs by a noticible margin.

The new one seems to work the same as the old one. I attribute this to the probability that I was not maxing out the cheap one.

General Rule of Thumb: Heavy Power Supply= Good PS

[Blueacid]

Should you have a poor PSU, or a good one that is running at its limits, you will probably notice that your computer may restart when you perform processor intensive work (such as lots of Folding, Gaming, Encoding etc etc) or if you maybe experience restarts when you put a CD in.

I had the problem - i run a 1.3ghz athlon, DVD Rom drive, CD- Writer, a Geforce3, and hundreds of fans :D. If I tried to use both CD drives at the same time, the system would restart - obviously I drew just that little bit too much current from the PSY - and it tripped.

An old AT psu was called in to run the fans, and drives...
Now my voltages are higher, and my system only restarts when I tell it... :cool:

[HBK216]

I just purchased an Antec SL350

It says on the box the combined 3.3V & 5V is 230W

Is that good considering your chart says it should be between 180W-185W?

I hope so

[neospazzy]

I recently installed the Vantec Stealth 520W PSU. I hooked up my Ehiem 1046 pump on the attached AC connector in the back of the PSU. Now my watercooling unit shuts off with the computer! YAY!

In terms of performance ... GREAT! Problems ... none!

[TheCor4D]

My Enermax 431W psu sucks, the +5 right now is sitting at 4.89, sometimes it jumps to 4.9 but usually at around 4.85. *sigh* i wanted to OC my chip, but damn that sability... Is there any way to increase the 5v without having to do that crazy 5v mod in the other sticky?

[Greasy Burger]

just replace my Raidmax 400watts with a Vantec stealth 420watts

[diggingforgold]

This is an amazing post. Excellent work. I really appreciate the info here. Good job Hoot!

[Bald Shadow]

This is what I use in my system, PC POWER & COOLING TURBO-COOL 475 ATX-PFC, ROCK SOLID!!! Cost more than most but worth it.

[Spacemonkey]

Here's another one of mine;
3.3x40=132 + 5x60=300 = 432w.

[OCn00b]

Hmm, according to the specs http://www.directron.com/420102df.html has 3.3+5 = 299W
and
http://www.directron.com/fsp40060pfn.html has 3.3+5 = 292W

Is the chieftec 420w any good?

[blohin]

Is that correct formula?!!!
ie
(3.3 x 15) + (5 x 32) = 209.5? !!!

or is it more likely

((3.3x15 + 5x32)/3)x2=139.66w




:D

[star882]

I am running the following on a stock Dell 250w(the Britney Spears of PSUs):
P4 2.4GHz
640MB DDR SDRAM
GeForce 4 MX 420
2x 7200RPM 60GB Western Digital HDs
PCTV Pro
48x24x48x CD-RW
16x DVD-ROM
4.1 DSP sound card
Voltages(measured with a radioshack DMM while I have Fear Factor and distributed.net running):
12v: 11.99
5v: 5.02
3.3v: 3.30
PSU temperature(measured with AIDA32): 115F
Besides the rails being almost perfect, the PSU is very quiet(I cannot hear it over the CPU fan(which is very quiet, too)), so I think the Dell PSU is a modified Antec(it is WTX instead of ATX).
BTW, I reverse engineered an old dell supply from a p133.
That dell supply used a LITEON power transformer(at first, I thought they only made CD-ROM drives).
There is only one switching transistor(well, only one big primary transistor, as there is a smaller transistor in the 5VFP supply, and several big transistors on the secondary side), but it is a high-power IGBT(20A, 900v) in a TO-3 case.
The primary caps are 680uF each, for a total of 1360uF(most PC power supplies have only 2 470uF, or 940uF total)!
EDIT: updated hardware and rails

[thef0x82]

Originally posted by Hoot


In case you have not gotten a PSU, or if you're planning on a new one, here is an excellent link to see the specs on many different brands of PSU.

http://www.pc-beratung.net/Download/Power.pdf

Hoot

Is it supposed to link to some German site?

[andrew1173]

The Antec Truepower 330 Watt True Power.

This psu is good, but can't handle hardcore overclocking.
I ran prime95 torture test for 3 days straight with no errors using an xp2100 at 170x13@1.75v. The voltage lines were the following: +3.3 => 3.28v, +5 => 4.975~5.002, +12 => 11.976v. Once I boosted the voltage to 1.775v, the vcore started to shift from 1.74~1.79, and the other lines dropped more. Also note, that I had a Geforce 4 4200 at idle speed. So if I really ran that sucker, the system would definitely have major problems.

[Neo Demi]

i got a case w/qtec 350 w at christmas, checked it earlier when it broke [about 30 minutes ago] combined 3.3 and 5 =190w. but dont go on this value, doesnt matter how well balanced it is, if the psu is a cheap pile of crap then itll die regardless.im gonna go and buy an enermax or sparkle or something that ive seen getting good ratings in these forums tomorrow. note all my voltages run slightly higher than the stated under full load. 12 was 12.3, 5 was 5.18, and 3.3 was 3.37

-david

-just lucky ive got more than one rig to play with :)

[dude_drew]

What is the formula in English? I read it's P=IE, but I'm so tired I'll never remember.
With all the dipping lines and stuff, couldn't you use 2 PSU's? It would look bad, but would it work?

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Running a 420w Channel Well CWT-420ATX12V - been great in the 6 months I've had it of almost 24/7 operation, voltages are stable as can be, but I do wish CWT would wake up and smell the need for more power on the 12v rail. This one's rated for 18a, but I want to add more hard drives than is probably safe for it. Even the newer ADP line from them (which is coincidently similar to the Antec Truepower line right down to the tighter voltage regulation ;) ) only has 24a @ 12v on the 550w (CWT-550ADP) model.

It does have a combined 3.3+5 rating of 245w though which is nice. Unfortunately I bought the single fan version not knowing there was a dual fan version floating around out there. Next PSU will probably be the 550 Sparkle I'm drooling over, if I can find it in Canada.

Meantime, CWT's website is www.cwt.com.tw

[neospazzy]

I just replaced my Vantec Stealth 520W PSU for the Antec True Power 550W PSU. It doesn't have as many connectors nor does it have the external AC input like my Vantec, but boy is it silent!

I had a love-hate relationship with my Vantec. Although the black aluminum casing and the high wattage rating was indeed attractive, the PSU was just too darn loud! Even on the lowest fan speed setting the Stealth was anything but stealthy.

The Antec True550 was just what I needed. I have been running it for a week and even on heavy overclocking, the Antec didn't break a sweat! It is amazing how quiet my system is now ... and I am not complaining there!

[schismspeak]

My 350watt antec SL350 must be pretty good, 3.3v+5v=230watts max. As good as a 400watt rated supply based on your chart. but the 12volt rail is only rated for 100watts or 16Amps, but my voltages are all good with everything shown in my sig.

[IZON]

CWT 450W psu in new rig.

3.3+5V = 292w (but on the case maker puts it as 260w)

either way I'm happy.

[Wibla]

I've got a 230W Enlight psu.. anyone heard of those? ..
+5V = 5.25, +12 = 12.43V .. with +3.3 @ 3.45V and core at auto ( 1.8V actual.. fluctuating between 1.75-1.80

[hitechjb1]

Originally posted by hitechjb1
Current needed on the 12V for oc:

Many of us may overlook the 12V line current for AMD mb, concentrated mainly on the 3.3 + 5 V in the past AMD mb.

If 12V line is used for AMD CPU, ...

At 1.65V rated Vcore, from spec
Tbred B (1600-2600) Icore max = 30.3 - 41.4 A
Barton (2500-3000) Icore max = 41.4 - 45 A

Estimate current on 12V line for CPU Icore:
Assume regulator efficiency = 80%

At rated Vcore = 1.65 V
Current on 12V line for CPU = 1.25 * 1.65 * 45 / 12 = 7.73 A

If oc Vcore by 10%
Vcore = 1.815 V
Current on 12V line for CPU = 1.25 * 1.815 * 45 * 1.1 / 12 = 9.36 A

If oc Vcore by 20%
Vcore = 1.98 V
Current on 12V line for CPU = 1.25 * 1.98 * 45 * 1.2 / 12 = 11.14 A

Other big 12V current consumption:

Fan = 0.2 - 0.7 A (e.g. TT SFII)
Hard Drive ~ 1.3 A (e.g. WD 120G 8MB SE)
DVD, CDRW ~ 1 A

So for a system w/
120% Vcore oc CPU (high end CPU type)
2 hard drives
1 CPU fan + 4 regular fans
1 DVD
1 CDRW

The total estimated 12V current = 11.14 + 2 * 1.3 + 0.7 + 4 * 0.2 + 1 + 1 = 17.2 A !!!!

For 20% margin/growth, the 12V current would be 17.2 * 1.2 = 20.64 A !!!!
(have not added the 12V needed for high end video card)

So plan the PSU accordingly if more margin/growth needed.

Pls comment !!!

E.g.
Antec SL400, 12 V current = 18 A max load
Antec SL450, 12 V current = 20 A max load
Antec True Power 480 W, 12 V current = 22 A max load
Antec True Power 550 W, 12 V current = 24 A max load

Some more thoughts:

If both AMD and Intel mb's are using 12V for Vcore, future PSU, for any rated power, should the PSU makers reproportion the 12V and 5V current spec. I.e. should increase the max loading current spec for 12V by 20-25%, and lower that for 5V by 50%. This keeps the total PSU power roughly the same. Also make rooms for the high end video cards that use 12V.

Since if Vcore is using 12V, the 5V lines is kind of excessive.

In the past, since AMD and Intel use different lines for Vcore, they have to make sure both 5V and 12V have enough current.

Of course, this won't happen soon, since the PSU makers have to accomodate for the older mb's, or unless making another PSU standard, ...

[thehandler]

From what I have read, the Fortron seems to be very good, The Channel well is also very good and is the company that makes the True Power for Antec. The Herolchi is supposed to be good if you can find a place to buy one, I can't.
And finally, I am really impressed with the Super Flowers units.
I would really appreciate it if any of you know where I can buy one of the new 550 watt Super Flowers units. I can't seem to find the newest model 550 anwhere either but it is on their site here: http://www.super-flower.com.tw
Also, HOOT, that link that you put in your earlier post, I can't get it to go anywhere is it still hot? Thanks guys, Mike

[935_MobyDick]

Thought I'd share my readings.

I'm running my cpu at 1.85v
RAM @ 2.75v
AGP @ 1.8v

1 80gb WD
1 CDRW
1 DVD
Soundcard, NIC

Vantec Aeroflow , Auxillary fan on Radeon and a card cooler.


5v ----- 5.187
3.3v --- 3.408
12v ---- 12.159

I'm running a Enermax 350W, dual fan.

[TT600KHatf]

I have a crappy 300w PSU that came with my noname case. The combined 3.3&5 is 150w. Everything runs stable under Prime95 (left running for 2 days). The only strange reading I am getting is from my -12v reading -6.93? What is going on here?

My Specs

XP-1700 DLT3C 310XPMW (not overclocked yet)
Vantec Aeroflow
Abit KD7
512 noname PC2700
Geforce Ti4200 128DDR
60gig Deskstar 7200
Pioneer DVD
Buslink 52x CDRW
floppy
3 80mm case fans


Update: After reading everything here and on the Abit Forums about my mobo needing lots of power I went out and got an Antec True 430. I love it and everything is great except now my -12v reads -2.93? Anyway I am not to concerned.

[pr0craztinazn]

i have an antec pp403x, and my 8.4gb hdd is currently not connected. i have these voltages right now (acquired thru USDM from epox):

3.3v: 3.12~3.25v (avg. 3.18)
5v: 4.948v
12v: 11.856v

yes, this psu has adjustable pots, exactly like the pp412x! thank you, hoot, for confirming this! anyway, here are my new voltages:

3.3v: 3.36~3.38v
5v: 5.056v
12v: 12.1v

nice improvement, huh? thanks to 3dxtreme for the guide on how to do this mod (www.3dxtreme.org/psumod.shtml) and thanks again to hoot!

[TT600KHatf]

Does that sound like an ad or is it just me? Just kiddin....you must really like that power supply. I have upgraded to an Antec True 430 and love it. Still have a strange -12v reading though. Could it be the ground in my house?

[thehandler]

Well I really don't understand your statement about the TTGI SF being the same as the Antec True Power. I have been researching PSU's for a very long time and I have talked to the TTGI people and most of the others. The specs on the Super Flowers unit is diffent from the true power. IN addition, the True Power has independent legs for the 3.3/5.0/12.0 + voltages. The SF units have a combined wattage output rating on the 3.3 and 5.0 lines as do most all other PSU's.
Now don't get me wrong. I happen to be in love with the Super FLowers units. In fact, I have a 550 watt ATX unit on the way to me as we speak to do an evaluation on. It is avaialble in both a triple fand as well as a quad fan and is available in many assorted colors with lighted LED fan.
The TTGI Supoer FLowers is a killer PSU to be sure but I don't know where you get your info on it being the same as the Antec true power? Mike

[Oklahoma Wolf]

I've done my homework on the Antec units... 99.5% sure the Truepowers are Channel Well, not Super Flower. AFAIK Antec hasn't used anything but CWT since the early days of the Smartpowers when they also used Heroichi on some models.

[Ploaf]

I have a 520w ttgi that I installed yesterday and the 5v rail is worse than my 431w enermax. The thing is mega heavy and all heatsinks but it's not putting out the juice.

[HS-CSR]

Enermax 660W in stock. Check that out!

It's awesome!

------------------------------------------------
edited by cw823

[Gage8]

wow, that thing will run my little fridge !:)!:)!

[LkyOldSun]

What's the maximum tollerance I should allow for on each rail (% above and % below nominal)
1. if OC'ng to the maximum limit
2. if OC'ng casually
3. if running stock

At what point is a rail's V level to be of a concern. For example: @ stock (10% below= loss of stability?, 10% over= loss of computer's parts' lifespan?)

I read thriough this whole thread and Larva's wonderfull thread also, and I didn't see any adequate answer to the limits of line regulation. Of course, PC Power & Cooling allows 1% regulation on rail voltages, Antec True Power 3%, and most others, 5%, but I have seen people post Voltages from Antec PSU's that are beyond 3%, and other PSU's voltage on rails beyond 5% of nominal.

And Of course, a voltmeter is much more accurate than MBM or some other software voltage reading program, but voltmeters seem to lack the capacity to note the range of fluctuation (at least the ones I've seen).

[felinusz]

Here is my particular power supply's specs - I post them here in the hopes of getting a more detailed output breakdown from someone who knows what they are doing math-wise.

By my math (using Hoot's method) I get 249.5 combined 3.3 Volt & 5 Volt. My PSU is rated at 500W and is some generic brand name (It has a logo that reads "ICI" on the spec sticker - more info on this would be nice also - especially from someone who has owned one of these :)). I ask because I am a bit sketchy on using a generic name PSU and it isn't too late to return this one and pick up another.

+5 ------- 40 A
+12 ----- 19 A
+ 3.3 ---- 15 A
- 5 ------- 0.6 A
- 12 ------ 0.6 A
+ 5 VSB -- 2.0 A

Thank you very much in advance - I would really appreciate more detailed info a great deal :)

[LkyOldSun]

IMHO, from what I've read here about PSU's you'd be better off just retuning it and getting a Fortron or Sparkle (made by Fortron).

[felinusz]

I returned it and am getting a Antec True Power 550W as a replacement. I feel a lot more comfortable using that as my system eats a lot of power and the Voltages were a little low with the other one @ full O/Ced load.

[RZA]

felinusz

what's eating THAT much power in your rig? I have a similar one (a gig of RAM, Athlon 1700+@2200, 80Gb HDD, GF4, CDRW), and I'm quite comfortable with a 365W Enermax...

[LkyOldSun]

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=212799&highlight=bios+note
and
http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=187887&pagenumber=1

answeres a plenty

[LkyOldSun]

originally posetd by LkyOldSun a couple posts up this page
What's the maximum tollerance I should allow for on each rail (% above and % below nominal)
1. if OC'ng to the maximum limit
2. if OC'ng casually
3. if running stock

At what point is a rail's V level to be of a concern. For example: @ stock (10% below= loss of stability?, 10% over= loss of computer's parts' lifespan?)

I read thriough this whole thread and Hoot's wonderfull thread also, and I didn't see any adequate answer to the limits of line regulation. Of course, PC Power & Cooling allows 1% regulation on rail voltages, Antec True Power 3%, and most others, 5%, but I have seen people post Voltages from Antec PSU's that are beyond 3%, and other PSU's voltage on rails beyond 5% of nominal.

And Of course, a voltmeter is much more accurate than MBM or some other software voltage reading program, but voltmeters seem to lack the capacity to note the range of fluctuation (at least the ones I've seen).


answer from Larva (from another thread) quote:
Originally posted by LkyOldSun
[quote]
What's the maximum tollerance I should allow for on each rail (% above and % below nominal)
1. if OC'ng to the maximum limit
2. if OC'ng casually
3. if running stock


1. The voltage at which the machine becomes unstable.
2. The voltage at which the machine becomes unstable.
3. (You guessed it) The voltage at which it becomes unstable.

quote:
Originally posted by LkyOldSun

At what point is a rail's V level to be of a concern. For example: @ stock (10% below= loss of stability?, 10% over= loss of computer's parts' lifespan?)


On the low side, the voltage at which the machine becomes unstable. On the high side, I don't like to see more than 5% more than the nominal 3.3, 5, and 12V values.

quote:
Originally posted by LkyOldSun

Of course, PC Power & Cooling allows 1% regulation on rail voltages, Antec True Power 3%, and most others, 5%, but I have seen people post Voltages from Antec PSU's that are beyond 3%...


Kind of points to how useless it is to worry about what the rating is. The reality is, if the supply is of high quality and not overloaded you will have perfectly adequate regulation regardless of what the maker (or other makers) rate their supplies at.

quote:
Originally posted by LkyOldSun

And Of course, a voltmeter is much more accurate than MBM or some other software voltage reading program, but voltmeters seem to lack the capacity to note the range of fluctuation (at least the ones I've seen).


You have to check the calibration of the onboard sensors against a voltmeter to know anything about the absolute voltage level. If you have a lot of fluctuation in the motherboard readings you really need to verify that the actual supply voltage is really fluctuating, as often it is a motherboard issue rather than the output of the supply wavering. Leave the voltmeter hooked up, run the machine, and watch the reading. It is just as capable of showing fluctuation as the motherboard sensors, and is generally accurate with regards to the absolute reading to boot.

You are getting caught up in the all-too-common trap of thinking that specifications mean all, and that complex topics such as real world load-driving ability, power supply regulation, and the resultant consequences are somehow adequately described by a few simple digits. Computers, power supplies, and life simply are not that simple. After you try a supply you know how adept it is at driving real-world loads, how well its regulation holds up, and how much equipment you can really run off it. Trying to judge these factors based on the manufacturers' marketing-eese (opps, specs) does no justice to the complexity of the situation nor does it typically get you closer to the optimal usage of your computing budget.

I've given this advice so many times I've lost count. If you run an AthlonXP at 2.5GHz or less with less than 2V Vcore, or a P4 at 3.2GHz or less with less than 1.7V, the 350W Fortron is fine. The 80mm fan version is $32 and the 120mm versions $48-55.

If your goals are more ambitious, step up to the 530W Fortron or the Antec True Power 430 or larger. These units are a minimum of $70. If you want to know exactly why I make these recommendations, you have to have used something like as many power supplies as I have under the myriad of conditions I've seen. Experience is the real teacher, don't expect that perusal of a few (usually inconsistant, incomparable, or just plain innacurrate) specifications eliminates this factor.

[jlm808]

Is this psu ok? How does it compare to the Antec 430 or 480? Here are some of the readings from mbm:

|Total number of readouts: 8065 CPU Speed: 2807 MHz |
|Running from: 7/25/2003 6:05:30 PM until: 7/27/2003 12:06:27 PM |
+-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|Sensor | Current | Low | High | Average |
+-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|System | 32° C | 32° C | 35° C | 33° C |
|CPU | 39° C | 39° C | 48° C | 42° C |
|PWM | 32° C | 32° C | 37° C | 34° C |
|Vcore | 1.50 V | 1.47 V | 1.54 V | 1.50 V |
|DDR | 2.61 V | 2.58 V | 2.64 V | 2.61 V |
|+3.3 | 3.38 V | 3.31 V | 3.42 V | 3.37 V |
|+5.00 | 5.13 V | 5.08 V | 5.16 V | 5.13 V |
|+12.00 | 12.16 V | 11.98 V | 12.28 V | 12.14 V |
|-12.00 | -8.24 V | -8.41 V | -8.16 V | -8.25 V |
|-5.00 | -2.83 V | -2.93 V | -2.83 V | -2.87 V |
|CPU Fan | 2721 RPM | 2636 RPM | 2812 RPM | 2713 RPM |
|NB Fan | 6026 RPM | 6026 RPM | 6490 RPM | 6180 RPM |
|SYS Fan | 2343 RPM | 2280 RPM | 2481 RPM | 2370 RPM

[RZA]

What a mess :)

Well, it's not that bad, but Antecs would most probably be better. However, as Larva and others said countless times, these digits alone do NOT prove anything - it's STABILITY that counts.

P.S. I especially like these readings:

|-12.00 | -8.24 V
|-5.00 | -2.83 V :D

P.P.S. jim808, don't panic about these - imho, it's most probably a faulty sensor.

[jlm808]

Thanks for the infor RZA. The negative readings are based on MBM 5 but in the BIOS there are no negative readings or voltages. I am not having any problems with the psu but it seems rather loud. So I was considering replacing it with a quieter one to cut down on the noise level. All in all the psu is stable. Thanks.:) :p

[ThetaDot]

so... how's this one? It's the 350 watt coming with my MAXTOP case... i'm guessing it's no good...

http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/11-150-044-05.JPG

[LkyOldSun]

looks to me you guessed right.

[ThetaDot]

heh. damn. Suggestions for a new PSU? I'll be running one motherboard, 1 hard drive, and about 4 or 5 fans... and lights inside... and I'd like to overclock significantly...
450 watt? If I spend about 100 bucks will I be ok?

[LkyOldSun]

if you have the time to read this whole thread, I would suggest that. Doing so, you would see that a $32 Fortron 350 watt would be plenty sufficient for your needs ( it "peaks" at 440 watts) http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=Fortron+FSP350%2D60BN

[fasteddielv]

I have a very expensive A/V PC case. It came with a PS that, rated at 350W's and it's in a U2 form due to case limitations.

I'm not able to OC at all. It dosn't pass Prime95 above DEC=214.
If I raise the CPU voltage from default by +100mv it won't load or says it can't find system file, bla,bla.
It's pretty stable at default settings but voltages in WinDoc and MBM are very low from what I've been reading here.

At idle:
VCore= 1.46
+3.3V= 3.15-3.18
+5V= 4.79 -4.81
+12v= 11.64
-12V= -11.70
5VSB= 4.73
VBAT= 3.15

Is this current config going to melt down?

System:

Atech Fabrication Case atechfabrication.com
MB DFI Lan Party 875 Pro
Intel P4 2.4/800 FSB
Corsair 2-512MB 3200LL
2-120GB Segate SATA Drive
Samsung DVD
ATI AIW 9700
Matrix Orbital VFD
M-Audio Revolution 7.1
2 70mm case fans
Koolance Exos H2O Cooling CPU,N.Bridge, Video VPU, HDD's



I've been told that this is not enough Power
(Scotty, I need MORE POWER) :mad:
Is this current config going to melt down?

Problem is this case can only handle a U2 PS (Size wise) and I can't find one with any more power than what I have. See
http://www.atechfabrication.com/products/350watt_2u_power_supply.htm
I have two option as I see it.
1.Replace all this high voltage heat producing hardware and build a second machine for file serving/gaming machine.
2. Or somehow adapt an external PS. This sound cheaper but more difficult

I've emailed PC Power & Cooling but other than a ATX PS they had no answers for a U2 PS.

I would very much appriciate any advice!

[fasteddielv]

Hi Guys,

Well I had the time and needed to get to the bottom of this.
I went to Fry's and got the Antec True power.
I just hooked it up and to my surprise the readings as you can see are very close. So I guess it's the MB sensors giving me false readings or software?
Freaking DFI MB is a pain in the !@#!!!
God I wish I never bought this freaking board!!!

U2.........................................True Power 480

At idle:
VCore= 1.46...........................1.46
+3.3V= 3.15-3.18....................3.15
+5V= 4.79 -4.81......................4.81
+12v= 11.64............................11.40
-12V= -11.70...........................-11.78
5VSB= 4.73...............................4.75
VBAT= 3.15...............................3.14

Any comments?

Eddie

Update: It still is not stable, won't overclock above DEC=214.

[adrian nelson]

i splashed out during my upgrade and brought a nice psu
enermax 300w, (170w on the 3.3v+5v)
and im soo glad im sitting at 5.00v on the 5v rail, fancy that aye

[cV]

Antec True550, +5v 40A, +12v 24A, +3.3v 32A - Seven IDE connectors; Two floppy connectors; one 3-pin connector; two 4-pin fan connectors; +12V power connector; Aux power connector.


Pretty good PSU, but on the lower with its line voltages. It is good for mid-to-upper range systems, but you'll need to do the VSENSE mod to turn this into a Super PSU.

[Gregory_WE]

How do I get the measurements I need? All that I get from Asus Probe is:

+12V : 11.795
+5V : 4.972
+3.3V : 3.248

Is there anything I can do with these numbers? This is with an Antec True430W PSU w/ system in sig.

[Gregory_WE]

Ok looking at my PSU it gives the following specs:

+12V: 20A
+5V: 36A
+3.3V: 28A

So...

36A * 4.972V = 178.992
28A * 3.248V = 90.944
+__________________
269.936W on 5V and 3.3V rails?

Assuming the calculations are correct, this means this PSU is doing pretty good? (Antec True430W)

BTW this is pretty much idle (surfing web and chat and stuff)

[Cuda]

Here is one to ponder:

I am running Prime95 at 220*11 and my +3.3 rail reads 2.59 I have been stable for nearly 5 hours now.

I know 2.59 is bad news, but what damage can it do to my system?

See the sig for system details.

[Oklahoma Wolf]

That 2.59 is probably the Vdimm, not the 3.3 (I assume this is MBM reporting).

That said, Foxconn (Deer) units are the worst of the worst. There have been plenty of horror stories about them on the board (one of them my own). I would advise replacing it with an Antec True 430 or better, or the Fortron 530, before the Foxconn decides to give you the free fireworks display.

[dalilman52]

woah, i just looked at my psu, and i just saw that my combined 3.3v + 5v is at 180 w, so thats sort of close to a 350w's specs!! cool!
________
Pornstar Cam (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/webcam/pornstars/)

[Cjwinnit]

At the minute I have a noname 300W PSU powering a P4. It's a pain. Folding 24/7 and it's age means I can't run everything I want in it atm :(

I'm upgrading soon I hope but the PSU has to go....

[Ritalin]

The sticker on my PSU says:
+3.3V --> 29A
+5V --> 48A
+12V --> 20A

The number given by ASUS Probe are fairly close, i mean the 5V stays around 5, 3,3 remains around 3.3 etc... the vcore for now is around 1.6. I am running at stock cooling/speed for now...
what do i do from now to calculate how good my PSU is ?

[LkyOldSun]

Good in what respect?
Good in as "it works now and it won't blow and fry my mobo with it?
or good in as "I can add a raid 5 and my psu still has reserve"
or " I'm trying to overclock and I can depend on my psu to deliver constant clean power"
Good is relative to what you want to do with the power the psuu supplies.

BTW, the only true test of voltages, AFAIK is with a voltmeter.


Originally posted by Ritalin
The sticker on my PSU says:
+3.3V --> 29A
+5V --> 48A
+12V --> 20A

The number given by ASUS Probe are fairly close, i mean the 5V stays around 5, 3,3 remains around 3.3 etc... the vcore for now is around 1.6. I am running at stock cooling/speed for now...
what do i do from now to calculate how good my PSU is ?

[Ritalin]

well i plan on o/cing, and people say a good psu is important... does mine fit?

[Deathknight]

Originally posted by Ritalin
well i plan on o/cing, and people say a good psu is important... does mine fit?

I had never heard of sunshine before I saw yours. Its the one with the fan mounted externaly right? :D

[Ritalin]

HEY, don't make fun of my psu...
(yeah it's that one lol)

[xcelerator]

I have a True Power 430 by Antec:

3.3v ----> 98.2w
5v -----> 159w


total= 257w

[Dogisblue]

I have a feeling that my PSU is letting me down...

I run a 2.4c which once seemed to run happily at 3.4 on air.

Now it is watercooled, and the temps are very good. However
it does not seem to run happily at any speed higher than 3.2,
and windows tends to shut down of its own accord.

I am currently using an Enermax 350, which served me well
on my 1.8A. Could this be my week spot...??

[Xstatic]

I have a Macron 400w and with 3.3 and 5 combined i get 247 which is above the rates you gave. Is this PSU a good brand or no?

[LkyOldSun]

Originally posted by Dogisblue
I have a feeling that my PSU is letting me down...

I run a 2.4c which once seemed to run happily at 3.4 on air.

Now it is watercooled, and the temps are very good. However
it does not seem to run happily at any speed higher than 3.2,
and windows tends to shut down of its own accord.

I am currently using an Enermax 350, which served me well
on my 1.8A. Could this be my week spot...??
try running the watercooling gear on a second psu. If you your ceiling increases, then the PSU is holding you back.

[fldrice]

How good is the Antec Trupower 430?

[pr0craztinazn]

well... its been 6 months, and i can tell you, the pot mod doesn't last forever. my voltages are slowly starting to drop again. 3.3v rail avg voltage is at 3.28v. my 5v and 12v rails, however, are fine. weird.

[L&M]

Anyone!!Help me here ,please!
I have a noname PSU wich says:
3.3V - 28A ; 5V - 30A ; 12V - 15A

"Maximum: 3.3v + 5v=200W & 12v=180W
---------------------------------------
330W "
Total output: 350W.
This is what the sticker on the PSU says.

And those are the voltages,taken by SpeedFan software:
Vcore1 - 1.70V
Vcore2 - 1.31V
3.3V - 3.23
5V - 4.78
12V - 12.60
-12V - 3.89
-5V - 3.65

Is my PSU really bad or not?!Thanks.

[LkyOldSun]

ya see, there is no regulation of the PSU industry to set standards for what is required in a PSU to post certain specs on the stickers.
also, software voltage readings are notoriously often wrong.

your PSU is prolly ok for everyday use. Prolly not very good for overclocking. Cheap PSU's can sometimes take other components with them when they go bad, and overclocking can push them over the edge. Your best bet is to get a FSP model psu. just search newegg.com for "FSP" and you will get a list of PSU's with FSP in the model # which are all good quality. At least then you can rest at nite knowing the heart of your computer is solid (and have a spare PSU for backup purposes).

[huneycutt]

Be Ye not decieved, dual fans with gold fan grilles, shrink wrap wires and ceramic coating do not a good PSU make. I had a high-end Enermax that fried two MB's before I figured out why and threw that sorry sucker in the trash and went Fortron FSP350-60PN and nary a problem.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&manufactory=1919&catalog=58&DEPA=1&sortby=14&order=1

The Fortron might have a Plain Jane look but it took Tom's lickin' and keep on tickin'.

http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20030609/index.html

I later read the PSU is the most overlooked component in computers and if I had done my homework/research I would have never bought the Enermax in the first place. Like the man said, hind sight is always 20/20.

[Susquehannock]

100% agreement here. :clap:
While I haven't had much personal experiemnce with
Enermax PSU, I'd have to say the Fortron "fsp"
units are impressive.

Many have given me grief at how I am so impressed
with my $30 Fortron units. fsp300-60atv* (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-995&catalog=58&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=0)

Some assert you need higher wattage and amp specs.
'Get a PCP&C unit or you'll be sorry!' ... they always say.

True the PCP&C units are very high quality. But on a cost for
performance basis these 300w Fortron are the best deal
going.
They are clearly capable of sustaining a stable rail at much higher
levels than what's specified. That "Tom's" review inspired me to
buy the Fortron fsp300-60atv and I have not regretted it.
In fact, I bought one for my next system too.

As always, just my humble two cents. :D

[kdub]

I have err had still have the carcus a coolmax 450w it has 120mm fan,had it about two months before it croaked.Is this normal for coolmax or did I just get lucky?

[kdub]

are the vantec 550 a good choice I have amd barton core2500and the usual surrounding stuff

[huneycutt]

Originally posted by kdub
I have err had still have the carcus a coolmax 450w it has 120mm fan,had it about two months before it croaked.Is this normal for coolmax or did I just get lucky?

Baa-daa-bing! Two months and it died? No, no, no! If a *good* PSU runs at normal temps under normal load it should last five YEARS or more.

[OKJEFF4]

Originally posted by huneycutt


Baa-daa-bing! Two months and it died? No, no, no! If a *good* PSU runs at normal temps under normal load it should last five YEARS or more.

I still have a 200watt PSU from a dual Pentium Pro machine made back in 1995. And yeah, it still works fine.

[LkyOldSun]

I hear dell under-rates their Power supplies.

That being true, your "200 watt" is really more than a 200 watt powersupply

[huneycutt]

"I hear dell under-rates their Power supplies."

WHOA! That's a new one on me because from all I hear tell Dell overerates everything, including their "award winning customer service."

These guys are a fast upcoming company and i f you know someone looking for a good on line computer building company, looky here: http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/

I heard about them in another forum and how reasonable their prices are so I configured one and unbelievable low price and comes with a FREE three year warranty. From my calculations it would hardly be worth my time to order all the stuff and build it myself and, don't forget, for three years it belongs to CyberPower and you just use it.

I know Best Buy's three year extended warranty is about $175. bucks and CyberPower giving it away free is very strong and for $119. you get three year ON SITE. Huge selection of MB's, CPU's, VGA cards, sound cards, cases, etc. Have some fun and go poke around the website and configure a few dream machines and you'll see what I mean.

[OKJEFF4]

Originally posted by huneycutt
"I hear dell under-rates their Power supplies."

WHOA! That's a new one on me because from all I hear tell Dell overerates everything, including their "award winning customer service."

These guys are a fast upcoming company and i f you know someone looking for a good on line computer building company, looky here: http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/

I heard about them in another forum and how reasonable their prices are so I configured one and unbelievable low price and comes with a FREE three year warranty. From my calculations it would hardly be worth my time to order all the stuff and build it myself and, don't forget, for three years it belongs to CyberPower and you just use it.

I know Best Buy's three year extended warranty is about $175. bucks and CyberPower giving it away free is very strong and for $119. you get three year ON SITE. Huge selection of MB's, CPU's, VGA cards, sound cards, cases, etc. Have some fun and go poke around the website and configure a few dream machines and you'll see what I mean.

Cyberpower is expensive for what you get. Don't be amazed by their stuff, they use low quality components on their "cheap" systems. Like Raidmax PSU's, Kingmax (??) RAM, Raidmax cases, etc.

Their customer support is horrible, trying to understand their reps heavy accents is a challenge in itself. Every time I've came to them for a warranty, they just sent me away to the manufacturer. There are tons of look alike sites out there just like them. Same images, layouts, style, etc. I think it's a part of some sort of chain.

-S

[webfreak]

I just saw this thread, so I decided to check out my psu. It's an enermax eg465p-ve(fc). Right now at load (running f@h), mbm5's dashboard is reading +3.3 = 3.46, +5 = fluctuating between 4.78 and 4.81, +12 = 11.98, -12 = -7.26, -5 = 0.33. I don't know if those readings are good or not, anyone have any insight on that? I also checked out enermax's website for specifications on this power supply (link here (http://www.enermax.com.tw/eg365p-ve-fc.htm)). According to the spec sheet, the +3.3 and +5 combined output is 200watts, and the power rating is 460watts. That's more than a little low according to Hoot's specifications. Should I be worried about this, and the low +5V reading?

[RZA]

Right now at load (running f@h), mbm5's dashboard is reading +3.3 = 3.46, +5 = fluctuating between 4.78 and 4.81, +12 = 11.98, -12 = -7.26, -5 = 0.33. I don't know if those readings are good or not, anyone have any insight on that?

I would'nt be extremely happy with that 4.78 from a quite expensive PSU... I'ts a 5% fluctuation - no good. Butit's not a disaster, don't panic ;)

Should I be worried about this, and the low +5V reading?

It depends on the amount of power your PC actually needs... HDDs, DVDs, cool video, heavy overclock... Also, if you experience some instability, this may well be because of PSU.

[huneycutt]

Thanks for the feedback Jeff, first bad thing I heard about them but will pass it along.

[Dragonprince]

Overclocked Barton mobile @ 2.4 Ghz, 1G PC3200, 2-40gig WD 8M drives, DVD-RW, CD-RW, ATI tv tuner PCI card, and a 9800 Pro....

Enermax 365w = dead....:mad:

PowMax 500w (remarked Fortron unit from what im told) = dying as I write this (voltage fluctuations are getting worse and the unit started squealing/chirping last week) :mad:

I give up, im spending the cash for the best. PCPowerandCooling 410w unit due in the mail shortly. 3yr warrenty here i come :cool:

[fallguy]

Mines 299.

[Nico3k]

Hmmm... my 300 watt Antec Truepower has combined output of 180 watts on 3.3 and 5.

I just bought a brand new 550 watt Sparkle FSP550 60PLG. It can power +12V @ 36A, but it says 3.3v and 5 is 150watt.

So does that mean that my 300w antec is better than my 550 watt forton/sparkle? The FSP550 has a much much higher amperage on the 12v rail.

thanks

[huneycutt]

Thought I'd report back on the bad ANTEC 350W PSU I got in an ANTEC case. RMA'd it to newegg and they turned it round in a few days sending me a brand new one in the box, installed and works like a champ. :) OldBird

[djs488]

ok hoot, lets go with three different categories...

1) general comp (no, or slight, overclocking, one HD, one processor, two cd drives, stock heatsink)

2) 'tweener (performance pc but not super duper high end, high end processor and vid cards, extra fans and quality heatsink)

3) hardcore performance comp (dual athlalons, 2 hard drives, heavily overclocked, cooling obsessed)

wat are the best available psu's for each category.

thanks

[iKwak]

....

[red_dragon]

Hey there. I just cracked open an old abandoned dualy pIII dell server and checked out the power supply. It says it's a 330W max with a combined 3.3V and 5V of 230W! :drool: So what do you all make of this?

[DarkDraco]

my okia lasted me a year so far, im oced and i also had 4 fans running off the 12v lines.

these any good? i still dont understand how to calculate... (stats from mbm)
3.3+=3.33 - 5+=5.00 - 12+=11.86 - 12-=-11.94~-12.03 - 5-=-5.03~-5.14

[waterhouse]

I just purchased a CoolerMaster Cavalier case and it came with a coolermaster 350w p/s. I also have a Enermax 350w 365P-VE (no fan control). Which is better, quiter, more effiecient?

dave

[chrisHimself04]

so how good is a aspire atx as500w psu? cuz i just got one from my dad. and i read a couple of things on it somewhere that it was ok.

[standard]

How good is an Antec SL350 PSU?

Worth buying? (I'm not looking to spend a ton.. but want a decent/good PSU)

[ojibewa]

I have used a Achieve/Viomax 500w in one system for well over a year, specs claimed are

AC Input: 115VAC/6A or 230VAC/3A
DC Output:
+3.3V 30 A
+5V 50 A
+12V 25 A
-5V 0.5 A
-12V 0.8 A
+5Vsb 2.0 A
Total Output: 500W (MAX)
Dual Ball Bearing Fan

with 3 case fans, and a normal setup I decided to take some measurements

Meter used..

Fluke 85III with current calibration cert..

5v 4.96
12v 12.59
3.3v 3.32

when compairing these readings to

SpeedFan
Sandra
MBM5

all the readings were either low or high some by as much as +/- ½ volt or more..

then I decided well, lets check temps

so I installed the 80BK temperature probe on the 85III

checked temps against all the previous monitoring software....

NONE of the software read the correct temps..

I just wanted to make a point to never trust the monitoring software you can download, most of the time it's not correct...

Steve

[ghettocomp]

Until recently I had a system that was running 24/7 with 7 HD's, CD, 4 case fans, HD Cooling fans on each HD, Sound Card, Network, etc. I didn't realize that the PSU was a 140watt generic. Poor thing kept up for nearly 6 months at that level of power output.

[Sleepy_Steve]

Noob question here, but i think i draw lots of power with my setup... 3 hdd's + info on sig.

I have a 500w aspire turbo case, and never see the 12v line go above 12v... It always fluctuates (sp I != forte) from 11.9v to 11.6v is that acceptable. The other voltages don't budge a bit, so no complaints there... Im rummaging arround for the spec sheet mentioned at the top of the thread.

[jaz2134]

ive got an Enermax Noisetaker 600W EG701AX-VE(W) SFMA psu
+3.3V = 36A
+5V = 45A
+12V1 = 18A
+12V2 = 17A

+3.3V & +5V = 320Watts

but current voltages on idle (using MBM5):
+3.3V = 2.74V
+5V = 4.92V
+12V = 12.10V

is that ok?

[jaz2134]

MBM5 is s*** coz when i use a multimeter it reads
WINDOWS
+3.3V = 3.30V
+5V = 5.10V - 5.11V
+12 = 12.41V - 12.42V
PRIME95
+3.3V = 3.30V
+5V = 5.08V
+12 = 12.46V - 12.47V

now, is this ok

taking into consideration ive got 4 HDDs and 5 fans

[yanz]

mbm is not s-uck because it's only read from mobo sensor (winbond chip or alike). that is your mobo sensor really suck.. :D or maybe the sensor for 3.3V (mbm) actually read the vdim, maybe you should configure it in the setting..

[svetko]

Look at this [http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=11-162-004&DEPA=0]500W cheap psu[/URL]! The combined 3.3 + 5 is 342.4! What would this mean?? :argue:

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Look at this [http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=11-162-004&DEPA=0]500W cheap psu[/URL]! The combined 3.3 + 5 is 342.4! What would this mean?? :argue:

That PSU is made by Deer - about the worst out there. I was actually surprised the UL file number even came up with a match, Okia has been known to put file numbers on their labels that don't match anything. I'll take a 300w Fortron over a 500w Deer any day. I don't trust Okia at all.

[yanz]

my 3.3 + 5V combined only 240W (30A 3.3V, 40A 5V). 342W combined of 3.3+5V is too big, hard to believe..

[Omnious]

well after i killed my Okia 450 max power supply i decided i better read up on them and pick out one that will fit my needs, the Okia (old one) had
+3.3 - 28A
+5 - 40A
+12 - 20A

it ran my system fine with a slight over clock, 2500+ to a 3200+ spec, well i upgraded to water cooling so i have 2 less fans running (cpu and vga) my pump is run off of the wall so there is less stress on the system from the water, well 2 days after i turned up my vcore and my DDR volts my power supply died, i'm still a little confused about a systems power needs and how to calculate them (yes i read the whole thread :p ) for my whole system power i have
Asus A7N8X-DX
2 512mb Elixir PC3200
9800pro (softmod xt)
10k Rpm raptor
7200 Rpm Wd
5400 Rpm maxtor
Dvd and Cd burner,
Tt crystal Orb Nb cooler
2 Cooler master 80mm's
1 Sunon 120mm
all 4 fans running on a enermax fan controler

does a fan controler or a rheostat use more power?
what would my needs be for wattage?
is Rosewill a good power supply?

in these 8 pages i did'nt see anyome mention Rosewill at all so i thought i would ask about them.
i know what was said in post #160 applies but i dont want to go through the hassle of rma'in and wating for the new one. i ordered a Rosewill RP500 (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=17-182-009&depa=0) from newegg and it should be here tomorrow, it's rating are far better than the previous with a total of 500w max opposed to 450w max.

+3.3 - 30A
+5 - 45A
+12 - 26A

it looks alot better with the amp ratings and the watt output, My power supply died when playing NFSUG2 and i use a Gravis Aftershock (with rumble)usb controler(power hungry?). i had my vcore at 1.8 and my DDR volts at (the middle setting) 2.6v. 11x215

EDIT for typos

[dmoffitt]

3.3*32 + 5*42 = 315.6W (for a 600W psu). silenx, built like a tank, heavy, nice heat sinks (of course i tore it apart already) abundant connectors (everything from SATA to the rather rate EPS12V 8-pin SSI).

[atomic hamster]

I am currently useing the psu that came with this case link (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=720575&Sku=D15-1010) (I know its horrible) anyways its been working fine, but im worried that it will die and kill my computer. I read it somewhere that some times when psu's die they can fry you mb and stuff. Is that true?

[dmoffitt]

I read it somewhere that some times when psu's die they can fry you mb and stuff. Is that true?

had i happen numerous times on computers i've supported @ school and friends' systems.

[hamsammich]

Wow, my Ultra Xconnect 500W PS falls short of the expected 270W...according to the product sheet, it only adds up to 242W.

:(

[Saud]

i love my 150 watt psu its exellent

[neospazzy]

I am using the Coolmax Fanless 480W PSU. With all the stuff running inside (look at the sig below), it runs solid as a rock and only raised the temps about 1-2 degrees higher. Love it love it (especially the silence)!

[chunkeymunkey25]

I know a lot of people dont like [H] too much, but their psu forum (http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=93) is extremely good, mostly becuase Ice Czar is there, and he seems to know everything, especially about psus.
About the combined 3.3v + 5v ratings in watts, read a few of the stickies, and youll learn why watts mean jack. Also, most major new hardaware uses the 12v line(s) preferably), not so much the 3.3 or 5, which is why a 500 watt psu generally isnt too good even if it has 320 watta total 3.3v & 5v, because it will have just 15a on the 12v line, and also the psu most likely will not give anywhere near that much power once the temperature goes above 25C.

[johan851]

I have a question. The Fortron Blue Storm is a 500w PSU, but the combined 3.3v+5v rails supply 150w, or so the label says. Does the chart at the beginning of the thread not really apply to dual 12v PSUs, or what?

[chunkeymunkey25]

Nowadays, the 12v amps total is more important than combined 3.3 & 5v totals, especially with the ability to have 2xpci-e cards taking up 75 watts each, easily, coming off of the 12v line. The Blue Storm has dual 12v rails at 15@ each, which is better than a single 30@ rail, as power can be taken from 2 seperate resources, instead of everything taking power from one single source.

The new PC Power & Cooling 850 psu has 4-12v rails at 17@ each, but they will of course usually use much less power than that, which gives the 3.3 & 5v lines at 30@ each more available power (the peak power is actually 950 watts, so the 4-12v lines could be usuing most of their amperage, and still give the 3.3 & 5v lines all the power they need.)

Basically, Hoots chart is more than 3 years old, and back then, you wanted more 3.3 & 5v amps in your psu, as hardware didnt really strain the 12v line that much. Thats the opposite right now, and one of the reasons why I, like many people, recommend the Blue Storm as a great quality, yet still inexpensive for a psu of its quality, psu. Modstreams are really nice too, but are nearly %50 more last time I checked.

[johan851]

I figured it was something like that. Thanks a lot buddy.

[prominance]

what happened to the OCZ Powerstream 520Watt? I have a Antec Tru480 Watt power supply that I traded for the OCZ 520 months ago. People on these forum where saying that those where the best PSU (under PPC&C) now everyone is saying ANtec? For a single rail isnt the OCZ any good? I see no mention of it in this thread for the last 4 pages?

[Dell_Axim]

"I hear dell under-rates their Power supplies."

WHOA! That's a new one on me because from all I hear tell Dell overerates everything, including their "award winning customer service."

Last time I checked, the circuit boards in Dell PSUs are actually made by Channel Well, which are also the ones used in Antec Truepower PSUs.
At least that's true with the 250w PSU in my old Dell Dimension 4550.

The one about Dell computers using nonstandard PSUs only seems to apply to servers and old PCs. My Dell Dimension 4550 has a normal ATX PSU. (Even checked the pinouts.)

BTW, the Dell Axim X30 PDA that I own included a 5.4v, 2.41A PSU, even though the most I have measured was about 1.5A. (And that's also with the worst-case situation: Battery dead and charging, running Fear Factor to put the CPU into high speed mode, both BT and 802.11b on, and backlight set to max.)

[dom_08]

here is my Hec Power Op...
i aint have much money... and this is the best i could have...

anyway, here are the specs

485W PSU

+3.3V: 35A
+5V: 41A
12V: 18A
-5V: 1A
-12V: 1A
5Vsb: 2A

how to get the wattage?
did i get these right?
3.3V = 115.5 Watts
5V = 205 Watts
12V = 216 Watts

combined reaches 537.5?!... too high?

[chunkeymunkey25]

That actually should make you feel a little better about your psus quality, as many poor quality power supplies say their watt total as the combined maximum output of each voltage line. You may have seen the PCP&C 850 monster psu, with 4x17@12v lines. If you do the math, that means that if you somehow loaded every 12v line to the max, that would be using 816 watts of power, but the psu still has plenty of 3.3 & 5v amps. While the psu does have a peak power of 950 watts (another sign of quality, the 850 is possible consistent power, while the 950 max is the number many companies wouldclaim as the psus consistent wattage rating).

[Gig-O-Ram]

I admit I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I looked over the first couple of pages. I am going to bet that someone, somewhere in here has the same PSU I have...but I could be wrong.

Anyway, my unit is a V Power ATX 400W. I don't remember all the specs, but I think it listed the total output at 380W(?). I have to look at it again, and if getting all the specs would help answer my question of whether its a decent PSU, I will.

A GPU I want (6800GT) says that it requires a 350W power unit. I have been told the Fortron PSUs are good, powerful units. But I don't know if I should spend the extra money on another PSU.

Please help...

[johan851]

Go ahead and list the listed output on each rail. That might help. If you have a multimeter, it would be good to check the voltages on each line, too.

V Power doesn't sound good, though, and depending on what you find out, a Fortron would be a smart choice.

[Gig-O-Ram]

Go ahead and list the listed output on each rail. That might help. If you have a multimeter, it would be good to check the voltages on each line, too.

V Power doesn't sound good, though, and depending on what you find out, a Fortron would be a smart choice.

I actually don't have a multimeter, so this is all I have to go on.
It looks like this:

Voltage Current Frequency

V Input 115V- | 10A 60Hz - 50Hz
230V- | 6A

V Output +3.3V +5V |+12V | -5V -12V +5VSB
26A 40A | 17A | 0.3A 0.8A 2A

MAX 220W |204W|

380W

Total Output 400W

[Gig-O-Ram]

Sorry, my little chart wasn't supposed to look like that(it didn't when I made it). I hope you'll be able to make sense of it.

[RoadWarrior]

w00t, found the old sticky :D

Heh, dug this up coz I was curious about what was considered "good" for a 300W "back in the day" because I just found an old Hi-Pro 200W that weighs a ton and has 156W between 5v and 3.3V. So might run a socket A SDRAM board okay if I don't hook up too many drives, 'coz the 12V is only 6A. I swear it's heavier than my 430W Antec though :D

Anyhoo, best not use it for this PIII rig I'm throwing together I was gonna have about 6 SCSI drives in it, and just one of the CD ROMs sucks up a third of that 12V rating.... Guess I'll hafta hope this old deer brand holds together...

Funnily enough though...
To paraphrase the #109th rule of Acquisition:

"A Cyberzone 300w power supply and an empty sack is worth the sack".
I got a cheapish 450W PSU to replace a Cyberzone 350W and I've been thinking about swapping the cyberzone back in because the 450W isn't doing as good a job as the 350W cyberzone was :rolleyes: So although I'm not exactly impressed with the cyberzone, I'll say it's probably worth more than some on the market, figure it will run what a 50W less enermax will run. Cyberzone cost $12 in a case! :clap: 450W cost $40 :cry:

Road Warrior

[Cjwinnit]

Good bump :D